What do you think the bitcoin foundation has been doing? This is why lobbying lawmakers is so important. Can you imagine what they would have come up with on their own?
I'd rather not get into what I think teh foundation has been doing... But I don't think this is the result of lobbying. I think it is the result of their internal study. The BTC foundation has about as much clout in Washington as does the Old Ladies with Too Many Cats Foundation... And I don't mean AARP! |
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I am really shocked at this ruling. It's amazingly positive for BTC. While I can imagine a scenario where it could lead to a small dip, that would be because people who were holding got such good cap gains news they are selling. But I mean, it is being treated para pursue to gold for purposes of mining and exchange, with a smaller tax burden then gold or forex for gains.
Can't really imagine a better result. If they had said no taxes maybe, but that would have been a step to de-legitimize. This is a major step to recognition, and I think the best we could have possibly hoped for in the structure.
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If bitcoin is a property and not a currency, it means that holders will not have to pay mark to market gains on unrealized profits at the end of each tax year.
This is a really big deal.
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great shout. now i think we should have a whip-a-round and get someone from cyprus to check out the branch and ask danny a few questions
I was there two weeks ago. Nice offices. |
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Thank you Peter.
Like anything in this pre-singularity life, there are issues and problems. To suggest that there are no issues and / or problems with Neo is to suggest that aliens from planet perfect run the company - and no one here is doing that. Additionally, pointing out general problems that any start-up and / or company faces as somehow respective only to Neo is nonsense. Trolls will be trolls, but for everyone who isn't intent on spending their lives being an asshole on the internet, please keep in mind that this business(es) is a process and a tremendous undertaking. It ain't twitter.
I've been to their offices... I've met with them. I can say with certainty, Danny is not a space alien. |
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One day I was walking in the park and the dog had a halo puppet tiger salad monkey pants hoolahoop. Red dingdongs purple sand belt happy growth fishing pole. Bryce Harper hits dem touchdowns with his fancy hat. Egor.
Fruit Pie!
Fruit Pie!
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I'd consider offering six for all five.
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Not to be rude here, but in what way are you qualified to make these recommendations? What credentials do you offer? What type of due diligence are you preforming? If you have buy/strong by ratings, do you have price targets? Are you using discounted cash flow valuations? Earnings projections? I mean, like I said, I don't mean any disrespect, but, are you just calling yourself a ratings agency because there isn't one?
I've been a private investor for the past 10 years, investing in several public and privately listed companies. Bitcoin and bitcoin related investments caught my eye for the past two years or so. I like to look at companies from many different angles. To me management is most important aspect, as it is something that can make or break a company. In this Bitcoin space, getting accurate numbers depends very much on management being honest, because if you don't have that, numbers they feed you are totally meaningless. That being said, many publicly listed companies are no strangers to cooking the books. Transparency is very important ingredient, so I only look at those cryptos/stocks that provide highest level of transparency. I don't believe in price targets. No analyst ever gets those right and if they do it's very often pure luck. Regarding valuation, I'm not a fan of predetermined models. I like to look at each investment on a case by case basis because a plethora of various factors come into play. You can't apply value investing rules, for example, when it comes to tech businesses, especially in this crypto space. Warren Buffett, for example, won't touch a company in this space using Graham's approach. Nothing in this space trades below book value and not many companies or cryptos here have PE ratios and such because many don't even generate any revenue, so you can only try and come up with a forward PE ratio, though this also involves certain degree of foresight and seeing into the future, which doesn't really work except on paper. I think it's naive to think you can try and come up with a forward PE when it comes to this crypto space, so highly volatile where things move so fast. It's for good reason some say 6 months in this space is like 10 years. Things are moving very fast. Guess best you can do is to keep a close eye on the investments and try to constantly re-evaluate. Even if you can try and setup or apply some sort of valuation model on a crypto stock, it's whole different story with a cryptocurrency that doesn't have any earnings, doesn't have any quarterly reports and so on. Goldman put out a report on Bitcoin recently, but it discounted many potential growth areas and they probably tried to stay conservative not to look like dumb-asses. http://www.scribd.com/doc/212058352/Bit-Coin Ridicule is what analysts fear the most, which is why most of their assessments are pretty worthless in general. They'll rather be wrong with the crowd than be right and alone. This is why it's pretty pointless to try and attempt that in such paradigm shift sector. No one would have taken seriously a "realistic" forward PE projection on say Ford company back in the days when Ford himself was promising the car would replace the horse. For example, I could use Trace Mayer's argument about potential Bitcoin price target, like "if 1% of any Chinese person would put $20 into Bitcoin it would move the price about 10k/coin" or "if 1% of all the money held in offshore heaven tax accounts came into Bitcoin, it would mean a price of $2.8mil/Bitcoin". No analyst would risk putting such crazy price targets because of fear of ridicule, though they are realistic targets. I'm thinking about writing some reports on few stocks and cryptos to explain my rationale. That could be interesting and might make more sense than trying to put price targets and use standard measurements. Interesting and frankly more of an explanation then I was expecting. I would be careful with the term "ratings agency" but, if you're not seeking compensation for the investment advice I suppose you are not really exposing yourself. I am not sure if it's possible to really offer the kind of investment advice that is given at larger wall street firms and rating agencies... even if they don't get it right very often, which clearly they don't, they do at least have a frame work within which they operate. Traditional valuation metrics clearly can't apply to digital currencies, as, other then XRP and NMC they don't have utility. I would say the best way to offer "traditional" advice would be to base it on technicals, but, then again, that's all a perception game too. Good luck to you sir, this is, in my opinion a bit of a disjointed effort, but a valiant one none the less. If I may be so bold as to suggest, and you are of course under no obligation, but, it might lend more credence to you recommendations if you disclosed what positions you hold. I look forward to following your thread. |
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Not to be rude here, but in what way are you qualified to make these recommendations? What credentials do you offer? What type of due diligence are you preforming? If you have buy/strong by ratings, do you have price targets? Are you using discounted cash flow valuations? Earnings projections? I mean, like I said, I don't mean any disrespect, but, are you just calling yourself a ratings agency because there isn't one?
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I don't see why there would be a premium for that...
If in the distant future, bitcoins are the main monetary system in use, all coins have been cycled through the system many times, have histories, tains, whatever... It would be like uncirculated currency. That is at times worth a premium. Plus, it's just cool. I think unopened blocks are cooler, personally. Therefore there is some premium. Ipso Facto. |
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I still don't get what the point of this is
Perhaps he is hedging against the highly unlikely possibility that some sort of coin tracking is used in the future. In that case the "taint' of a coin may change it's value compared to a "clean" coin. But again, almost no one wants this and I can't see it happening. No one here wants to see it happen, doesn't mean it can't happen. Besides, imagine in 50 or 100 years if you have a block, still in its output address. Wouldn't you imagine there would be some premium to that? |
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I left Neo's office rather impressed.
You with me so far? No, that is sort of the point of what I posted. What I was saying is you seem to be saying Neo & Bee is running a scam, yet most of your accusations are based on Danny's previous employment or whatever. I was asking, in what way do you believe they are scamming people? |
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I met Danny last week in Cyprus. They have an impressive structure in process there. In exactly what way do you find them to be committing fraud or scamming someone? While I agree I wouldn't want to put money into a Neo account because when I buy BTC I want the currency exposure, that alone doesn't make it a scam. They are quite upfront about the fact that they will benefit, rather then the customer, should BTC prices rise vs Euro... But since they state that, how is it a scam? I can see why a Cypriot might want to hold a steady number of euros in a BTC account outside of the traditional Cyprus banking system...
I left Neo's office rather impressed. Other then Straw Man attacks against Danny himself I don't see anything here that would suggest they are scamming anyone. Unless you are simply staying that Danny is stealing BTC for personal use, I really don't get what you are claiming.
Can you elaborate on how/why it is a scam?
Thanks
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It is heavily based on the BTC price, if you don't beleive in BTC, then you should sell NeoBee too. I see it as essentially a double down on bitcoin.
It's far more then a double down on btc - They essentially have raised 10mm USD in btc, and spend maybe 1mm so far. The rest they are keeping in BTC, and essentially, they borrow Euros from the public, paying no interest, and "buy" bitcoins with the money they borrow. I'm not sure they actually need to buy any btc yet as they have a ton left potentially from their IPO. They are EXTREMELY levered to BTC in their model though, since they hold the fiat balances flat, adjusting the coin balance up and down. |
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Why are you doing this?
Make's total sense to me. Clean blocks, still in their output address maybe worth far more in the future as their will be zero taint or transaction history associated with them. |
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I hope you guys are able to get justice out of this and have your possession/payment given to you.
I personally don't think anyone should donate here. Having good money chase bad money likely will net you a loss. But then again I can only speak for myself. When I have issues generally I like to deal with them myself and in this situation I wouldn't be asking for donations. It was basically your own fault for trusting the other party to keep their end of the deal knowing full well that this could happen (meaning there are dishonest people in the world).
One thing to do is chalk it up and never deal without an escrow. That is one approach. Hopefully others will learn from your mistake here.
Good luck.
I totally agree about the lesson we've learned... but I want to make sure we were clear, we are not asking for a pure donation, but rather to join our recover efforts. We collect 4 btc to pay the costs, iff we recover 35 btc + $2000 which is what was taken, at a ratio of 15/1 nmat will return 14 BTC to the people who help us fund the effort. That isn't the first 14 btc btw, but the equivalent of 14/37 or 38% of whatever we recover. Not to argue with the idea it maybe very difficult to recover, just wanted to point out we are not asking for donations without participation. |
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We want to get this guy, but we will need some help. We've already spend about $1,000 on this.
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My two codes working so far! PMing to get a third.
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Reordered the salted caramels... they are too good!
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