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81  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 11, 2016, 07:44:45 PM
SEC Opens Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust Filing for Public Comment

http://www.coindesk.com/sec-winklevoss-bitcoin-trust-public-comment/

Wow.

Quote
According to the SEC, it will approve or disapprove the request within 45 day of its posting on Friday, unless a longer period of up to 90 days is deemed necessary.

I am not sure, but I think this may be a technicality as it relates to BATS.

I.e. BATS is seeking to amend its rules to permit trading in this new Commodity-Based Trust Shares.  This is governed by various regulations related to Self-Regulatory Organization Rulemaking generally, and commodity-based trust shares, particularly.

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Self-Regulatory Organization’s Statement of the Terms of Substance of the Proposed Rule Change - The Exchange filed a proposal to list and trade Winklevoss Bitcoin Shares (the “Shares”) issued by the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust (the “Trust”) under BZX Rule 14.11(e)(4), CommodityBased Trust Shares.

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/batsbzx/2016/34-78262.pdf

I do not think permitting this amendment means the S-1 for the actual trust and its shares has been approved.  In fact, the document notes:

Quote
The Shares of theTrust will be registered with the Commission by means of the Trust’s registration statement on
Form S-1 (the “Registration Statement”) under the Securities Act of 1933 (the “Securities Act”). The most recent amendment to the Registration Statement was filed on June 29, 2016 and the Registration Statement will be effective as of the date of any offer and sale pursuant to the Registration Statement.

So if it is approved, not a bad sign that the S-1 might one day be cleared, but I don't think it means the decision for S-1 is now within 90 days.

If this request isn't approved, probably a very bad sign for S-1 approval.
82  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: July 07, 2016, 12:44:52 AM
Btcoin rallying, Monero rallying... Where the hell is Risto?  More than a month since his last post.
83  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 28, 2016, 04:40:19 PM
I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the this of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

I prefer the bobchain of Inthereum.  http://intheoreum.org/#welcome
84  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: June 17, 2016, 08:43:16 PM

Vitalik did everything wrong.  Last night the potential conflicts-of-interest created by his vast personal holdings of ETH and DAO were actualized.

He should have told DAO to FOAD.  Instead he made a bad situation much worse by throwing exchange operators and users under the bus in a vain attempt to save ETH's highest-profile project.

DAO's incompetent devs and greedy bagholders are solely responsible for the consequences of this fiasco.

But now we have moral hazard spreading to ETH and exchanges as the rot spreads upward.

Is this type of situation going to happen again?

It seems inevitable, given all the dubious low-security shitcoins Polo lists, one or more will be hacked in the future.

When MAID and DASH get hacked, will Polo freeze trading, etc for tangentially related coins like BTC, forcing traders to lock in their losses?

This godawful precedent implies the answer is yes, they will.

Agreed.  And I still struggle with how the DAO can even claim it is a problem, as the DAO terms expressly say the code supercedes the description / intent.

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The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this explanation of terms or in any other document or communication may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond those set forth in The DAO’s code. Any and all explanatory terms or descriptions are merely offered for educational purposes and do not supercede or modify the express terms of The DAO’s code set forth on the blockchain; to the extent you believe there to be any conflict or discrepancy between the descriptions offered here and the functionality of The DAO’s code at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413, The DAO’s code controls and sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation.

https://daohub.org/explainer.html

So I guess future DAO will need to have a disclaimer that there are situations where the code doesn't control, and therefore you have to look to intent... Which basically means opening the same can of worms lawyers and courts have been dealing with for ages, but "smart contracts" were supposed to avoid.

It would be hilarious if the "hacker" sued the DAO for breach of contract if the "stolen" funds are returned!
85  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: June 17, 2016, 01:11:56 AM
Where's Risto?  I would have expected the bitcoin surge would have led to some new Malla retreat discussions?
86  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: May 31, 2016, 05:15:04 PM
While very true for Bitcoin, this article is even more relevant for Monero. https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoins-market-cap-not-think/

Edit: Here is the main reference https://vinnylingham.com/deconstructing-the-bitcoin-market-cap-ce52b0d87035#.mh02k5qj9

I'm not following his math to get to $697, but I disagree with his view on mining = stock split.  A stock split does not affect market cap, but does affect individual share price.  Instead, mining is simply akin to a continuous offering, which will affect market cap, and also possibly share price, depending on whether the offering is dilutive or accretive.

The simpler comparison to account for the continuous issuance is to look at both price per coin / share, as well as total market cap, as shown many places, including coinmarketcap.com.

As for the lost coin, its anyone's guess.  But unless you assume there is increasing rate of lost coin over time, it shouldn't affect the comparability of periods.  In fact, I would argue lost coins have decreased over time, as people are more careful with bitcoin in the hundreds than when it was in the pennies and dollars.
87  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 25, 2016, 04:25:06 PM

So even after taking out the one claim for $2.3 trillion, there are still $32 billion of claims...  And $91m of assets.
88  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 24, 2016, 03:54:42 PM
Hahahaha, if true, hilarious! http://pastebin.com/8a2EdtSV <==supposed to be an email leak
TL;DR: Bruce Fenton trying to become relevant by offering Core fancy-sounding BitcoinFoundation titles if they just play with him Cheesy

NOTICE ME SENPAI!!

Lol, confirmed Cheesy

"[–]bruce_fenton [score hidden] 37 minutes ago

This email was a private/ non public email meant for about a dozen of the leading core Devs."
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4kt7uv/leak_bruce_fenton_attempts_to_revive_failed_and/

Between this "leak" of an unsolicited group email and the "crashing" of his club med roundtable, Queen Bruce proves he has a very naive view of what is and isn't private.
89  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 19, 2016, 05:05:54 PM
Great piece on some of the legal issues related to the DAO.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-05-17/blockchain-company-wants-to-reinvent-companies

I particularly like this:

Quote
But what if an impecunious owner of a Mobotiqmobile rents it to her impecunious peer, and it autonomously crashes into a bus full of children? What if they sue? What if Mobotiq, and the owner and the renter, don't have enough money to pay their damages? (Presumably the car has no money.) What if the insurance that Mobotiq is required to buy under the smart contract turns out to be worthless because someone filled out a form wrong? What if the only deep pockets anywhere near the accident are those of the DAO itself? What if the DAO has spent all its money on a pyramid scheme, and the only deep pockets are those of the DAO's individual investors?

Quote
At that point, the DAO might want to know what its relationship is with Mobotiq, not in terms of "immutable, unstoppable, and irrefutable computer code," but in terms of traditional corporate structures under relevant local law. Is Mobotiq a division of the DAO, identical with the DAO for liability purposes? Is it a separate corporation in which the DAO has a (limited liability) equity investment? The DAO's investors, similarly, might now be keenly interested in whether they are in fact general partners in the DAO under local law. Because general partners tend to have unlimited liability for their partnership's misdeeds. Even if the smart contract says otherwise. Without the protections of limited liability based in local law, all you have to rely on is cryptography.

I also think the potential legal liability of the "curators" is going to be interesting.
90  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 06, 2016, 12:39:59 AM
Kudos to Gavin:

https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/with_replies

Quote
Jerry Brito ‏@jerrybrito  4h4 hours ago
@gavinandresen Are you still certain beyond a reasonable doubt that Craigs Wright is Satoshi?

‏@gavinandresen
@jerrybrito Ask me in six months; I don't trust my own judgement right now after all the drama.

Quote
Gavin Andresen ‏@gavinandresen  4h4 hours ago
Today I'm thinking: @aantonop is a very wise man. And: "we are all Satoshi" is such a lovely idea; might say "yes" when asked "are you?"


How do you give Gavin kudos for that level of lameness, non-commitedness (and vagueness) in his response?

He acknowledges he shouldn't have done the London meeting (@aantonop reference), and says he no longer trusts his own judgment.  Not vague at all.  If you lose faith in your judgment, why would it be better to make another judgment call so quickly?

Oh, and being scammed and then publicly humiliated takes a pretty big toll, I think a three day turn-around ain't bad.

Regardless of whether we agree on kudos, I think we can agree it is far better than Matonis, JVP and Grigg.
91  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 05, 2016, 11:57:54 PM
Kudos to Gavin:

https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/with_replies

Quote
Jerry Brito ‏@jerrybrito  4h4 hours ago
@gavinandresen Are you still certain beyond a reasonable doubt that Craigs Wright is Satoshi?

‏@gavinandresen
@jerrybrito Ask me in six months; I don't trust my own judgement right now after all the drama.

Quote
Gavin Andresen ‏@gavinandresen  4h4 hours ago
Today I'm thinking: @aantonop is a very wise man. And: "we are all Satoshi" is such a lovely idea; might say "yes" when asked "are you?"
92  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 05, 2016, 07:02:04 PM
Joseph Vaughnperling not giving up:

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I also have a message for Dr. Wright from the trustee of the Tulip trust that is controlling the coins that he wants to move. Not yet announced:

Quote
“The Tulip Trading Trust trustee, appointed by Dave Kleiman as of Oct 12nd 2012. It has been rumored that Craig Wright will need to access Tulip Trading Trust assets. Trustee acts in the interest of the beneficiary alone and must defend against undue influence by others. In order to authorize movements of trust assets the beneficiary must come forward and make a direct request of the trustee our way–NOT via 3rd party nor any intermediaries. Any coin movement affecting the trust asset without prior authorization will be considered a trust violation and invalid irrespective of any claim of constructive bailment. The Trust alone has control over its assets. Tampering or manipulating with trust assets by anyone (including the beneficiary) might have material legal and tax implications. Beneficiaries are invited to a conference call 12:00 UTC Friday to discuss interests. Principals only.”

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshi-saga-continues-tulip-trust-trustee-expected-to-appear-by-september-says-joseph-vaughnperling-1462467803?q=%20&hPP=5&idx=articles&p=0&is_v=1
93  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 05, 2016, 12:06:46 PM

Your second link notes the claim was retracted by the researchers.

Quote
"It had just been brought to our attention that Dustin D. Trammell had published a post at http://blog.dustintrammell.com/2013/11/26/i-am-not-satoshi/ in which he details his very early association with the bitcoin scheme, states that he is the owner of the account which received some of the first batches of mined bitcoins, and describes how he deposited  them into his account at MtGox from which they found their way in a few short hops and without his involvement into DPR's account. We find this post completely believable, and thus we no longer believe that the very early Founder account we identified in the full  bitcoin transaction graph belongs to Satoshi Nakamoto. We will revise our paper accordingly."

http://www.businessinsider.com/silk-road-satoshi-paper-retraction-2013-11
94  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 05, 2016, 02:16:47 AM
Here is another weird Craig Wright issue that I've been mulling over. 

Back in November, so-called @BitcoinBelle moderated a so called "All-Star Panel" at a bitcoin conference, that included Ed Moy, Joseph VaughnPerling, Trace Mayer, Nick Szabo, and good old Craig Wright.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdvQTwjVmrE

This was shortly before the so-called leak of Craig being SN.  At the time, Craig was not well known in the bitcoin panelist world, and did seem to stand out as being less of an "All-Star" than others.  (Szabo in particular seemed to think he was a a fool).

When the Craig / SN "leak" surfaced shortly thereafter, many wondered why Craig was at the meeting, and whether @bitcoinbelle was involved in some way.  (And note that my comment describing the ATO tax credit fraud angle on Craig was in that chain, which to toot my own horn, was one of the earlier detailed articulations of this theory, as far as I know.)  https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3w9xec/just_think_we_deserve_an_explanation_of_how_craig/

Now, from looking at more recent tweets by @bitcoinbelle, we see an interesting exchange between her and Joseph VaughPerling.  https://twitter.com/BitcoinBelle/status/727470504932720640

Of note:

Quote
Steve ‏@MrHodl  May 3
@BitcoinBelle @01101O10 @iang_fc @haq4good JVP, supposedly met Satoshi in 2005 and has his picture. I'm sorry but I call bullshit

JVP = Joseph VaughnPerling = @haq4good

Quote
DI$RUPTIV3
‏@BitcoinBelle
@MrHodl @01101O10 @iang_fc @haq4good told me that almost a year ago so I invited him to be on the panel. Figured he'd recognize his voice.

And then:  https://twitter.com/BitcoinBelle/status/727207098442993665

Of note:

Quote
DI$RUPTIV3
‏@BitcoinBelle
@haq4good @dakami You told me that you spoke to Satoshi many years ago and that he was definitely not Craig. What changed your mind?

And:

Quote
JVP ‏@haq4good  May 2
@BitcoinBelle @dakami A closer look at his face.

And:

Quote
DI$RUPTIV3 ‏@BitcoinBelle  May 2
@haq4good @dakami Huh Well you had that chance at the panel and insisted his voice was not the same either. Regardless, you lied then or now

So, the sequence seems to be that @bitcoinbelle was instrumental in getting Craig into that panel.  Part of the motivation was to put JVP and Craig in the same room, probably because Craig had intimated to her that he was SN and a "leak" was imminent.  JVP initially denied that Craig was SN, and later changed his tune.

JVP could have denied the connection because he was keeping SN / Craig's identity secret.  Or, maybe JVP really didn't connect Craig with SN, but later had some reason to support the Craig = SN story for unknown, and possibly suspect reasons.

And, FWIW, @bitcoinbelle currently seems to think that Craig is a fraud.  She claims he hacked her twitter, and that he turned kind of pervy on her.  https://twitter.com/BitcoinBelle/status/727336811899543553  https://twitter.com/BitcoinBelle/status/727346525106491392

I don't really know what to make of this, but on the off chance that people on this board know more about the character and motivations of some of the people involved, I throw it out there.

(Also, I'm not sure exactly how twitter links function, you may have to click "viewconversation" on the links I provided to see the back and forth).
95  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 02, 2016, 01:29:08 PM
I posted this detailed analysis describing a likely motivation for Craig needing to "prove" he is Satoshi.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3w9xec/just_think_we_deserve_an_explanation_of_how_craig/cxuo6ac

The short version is that he made fictional investments in a company by claiming to have transferred his personal "interest" in $29m of bitcoin to the target company.  (I.e. no blockchain transfer, just a legal document claiming to transfer that amount of bitcoin.)

He then claimed substantial cash R&D credits from those transactions.  

Australian taxation office (ATO) began investigating.  He has paperwork showing the transactions, but knows that ATO might dig around and want to see verification that he truly owned $32m of bitcoin.  To cover that, he claims he put all his bitcoin in a trust, where the trustee was another early bitcoiner.  Unfortunately, that friend has now passed away, and the private keys are lost.

In order for the BS to be even vaguely plausible, he needs to show that he originally had access to $32m of bitcoin.  This is why he pretends to be Satoshi.

96  Economy / Speculation / Re: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer on: April 27, 2016, 08:14:04 PM
you can still pseudo arb this if you think the premium is too large

1)  sell the GBTC  (provided you own it)
2)  use proceeds to buy 'physical' btc

if you are correct and the spread decreases - you can use the proceeds in #1 to buy GBTC and sell #2 to cover the cost

not perfect though - you lose out if the spread increases  + you don't get the magic premium that happens when you transfer from the BIT fund to GBTC...but you need to wait 12 months for that one

Of course, but a key rationale for owning GBTC is owning it in a 401k / IRA.  It is hard to buy bitcoin in those funds.  You could buy direct from bitcoin investment trust at NAV, but you have to be an accredited investor and then hold for at least a year.  And you'd have to have self administered fund, you couldn't do it through a company 401k.

There are other ways of getting direct bitcoin into a self-administered IRA, but it is fairly complicated.
97  Economy / Speculation / Re: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer on: April 26, 2016, 05:32:17 PM
All new investments (including follow-on by existing investors)  are subject to 12 month holding period
That doesn't match what I was told.  I have sent an email to Grayscale asking for clarification and will post the response here when I get it.
My bad; per Rule 144 http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rule144.asp there is a 12 month holding period effectively making arbitrage way too slow.

It will be an interesting dynamic for GBTC if the Winklevoss ETF (COIN) suddenly gets traction.

As COIN is going through a full listing process instead of relying on the 144 loophole, it will not have the same arbitrage issues as with GBTC.  So it should have very little - or at least, much less - spread between market price and NAV.

And COIN will be purchasable in the same 401k / Roth / IRA accounts as GBTC.  And those accounts grow tax free, so you won't take a tax hit if you sell GBTC to buy COIN.

So once COIN is trading, the GBTC premium should evaporate.

However, if COIN starts to show traction, bitcoin may have a run, and GBTC's premium might be maintained for some period of time by people who want to capture that run without buying bitcoin directly, or if 401k type accounts.
98  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 25, 2016, 10:26:36 PM
I should invest in something more sane.

well ... in France, we have anal plug if you prefer.

http://en.rfi.fr/visiting-france/20141019-paris-s-butt-plug-art-work-not-be-reflated-after-sabotage-attack

art guy in the french governement are crazy ...  Roll Eyes
I might check out that plug once we hit moon levels.
I heard a guy in Europe shit in a jar and then traveled around the world with it, went to art conventions. Art sometimes is amazing indeed. I mean there's literally no limits.

Artist's shit.  Was originally priced based on its weight in gold.   On October 16, 2015, tin 54 was sold at Christies for £182,500. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_Shit
99  Economy / Speculation / Re: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer on: April 20, 2016, 08:21:37 PM
GBTC at all time high.  https://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GBTC#{"range":"max","allowChartStacking":true}

Based on yesterday's close, a near 45% premium to NAV.  http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/#market-performance

Oops, not quite there, yahoo max range wasn't working properly for me.
100  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 20, 2016, 08:10:19 PM
GBTC at all time high.  https://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GBTC#{"range":"max","allowChartStacking":true}

Based on yesterday's close, a near 45% premium.  http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/#market-performance

it is not at an all time high

Guess you are right looking again, the max function on yahoo finance chart doesn't seem to be showing the whole period.  Getting close though!
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