Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[600watt]

With the publication of the Civil Code General Provisions Draft, virtual properties and data have officially become Chinese people’s rights, what this means is that cryptocurrencies e.g. Bitcoin, virtual currencies e.g. online gaming tokens and data information, e.g. Big Data, shall all be officially recognized as Civil Right Objects. Yesterday(June 27th ), the 21st session of the 12th National People’s Congress Standing Committee(China’s Congress or/and Senate) was held in Beijing. The session reviewed, for the first time, the illustration on the PRC Civil Code General Provisions(Draft) Proposal, which was brought to the floor by the Chairman Meeting of the NPC Standing Committee. Within the draft, we see articles on virtual properties and data information, classifying them as new type of civil right objects, this means that virtual properties and data shall officially become people’s rights.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4q8eu9/chinese_civil_code_general_provisions_draft/

elwar, please make this a thread of its own. i think your finding is big. perfect timing. halving. perfect storm. just wow.

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[Elwar]

With the publication of the Civil Code General Provisions Draft, virtual properties and data have officially become Chinese people’s rights, what this means is that cryptocurrencies e.g. Bitcoin, virtual currencies e.g. online gaming tokens and data information, e.g. Big Data, shall all be officially recognized as Civil Right Objects. Yesterday(June 27th ), the 21st session of the 12th National People’s Congress Standing Committee(China’s Congress or/and Senate) was held in Beijing. The session reviewed, for the first time, the illustration on the PRC Civil Code General Provisions(Draft) Proposal, which was brought to the floor by the Chairman Meeting of the NPC Standing Committee. Within the draft, we see articles on virtual properties and data information, classifying them as new type of civil right objects, this means that virtual properties and data shall officially become people’s rights.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4q8eu9/chinese_civil_code_general_provisions_draft/

elwar, please make this a thread of its own. i think your finding is big. perfect timing. halving. perfect storm. just wow.

Posted in Bitcoin Discussion but it will probably be drowned out by threads about "How do I get free bitcoins!?!?" full of signature posts.

[julian071]

Good news indeed. So time for a dump!

[600watt]

Posted in Bitcoin Discussion but it will probably be drowned out by threads about "How do I get free bitcoins!?!?" full of signature posts.

why not speculation subforum? i would say it could influence the price. big time.

[mnl92]

With the publication of the Civil Code General Provisions Draft, virtual properties and data have officially become Chinese people’s rights, what this means is that cryptocurrencies e.g. Bitcoin, virtual currencies e.g. online gaming tokens and data information, e.g. Big Data, shall all be officially recognized as Civil Right Objects. Yesterday(June 27th ), the 21st session of the 12th National People’s Congress Standing Committee(China’s Congress or/and Senate) was held in Beijing. The session reviewed, for the first time, the illustration on the PRC Civil Code General Provisions(Draft) Proposal, which was brought to the floor by the Chairman Meeting of the NPC Standing Committee. Within the draft, we see articles on virtual properties and data information, classifying them as new type of civil right objects, this means that virtual properties and data shall officially become people’s rights.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4q8eu9/chinese_civil_code_general_provisions_draft/

This is for real, it's on newsbtc now. This is the first time we know the price can rally without China ruining it by semi-banning bitcoin just when it's getting good. That threat won't be in the back of people's minds during the next rally, which will make it a moonshot.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/06/28/new-chinese-civil-law-draft-classifies-bitcoin-property/

[gentlemand]

Hmm. China can make it as legal as humanly possible. They can destroy the exchanges any time they like still. All those Chinese coins will be perfectly safe you just won't be able to do anything with them. That's a neat outcome for the government if they ever did press the large red button. They can pin it on 'irregular business practices.'

[Karartma1]

Thanks for posting the old Economist. That's a truly symbolic cover that reminded me the Bitcoin/Blockchain cover they posted last year. Nothing is done without purpose guys.

If you saw a full version of the Cogwheel Earth chained to Bitcoin cover, on the coin there is the infinity sign/symbol and the pyramid with the all seeking eye on it.  

*Edit: They probably own a big amount of coins! That makes them feel confident they can control things...

I was referring exactly to that. There's an hidden layer of power which we cannot see but it is overwhelming all of us.
We all recognize something is wrong but we tend not to think about it.

Let's go back to price issues: someone ate my stop loss like ice cream.

[JayJuanGee]

A few thing people here don't seem to understand:

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

China is not leading this market.

No fee Chinese exchanges are being used to "control" the market, because bots are linked and people think China is leading the market.
...
The rise to nearly 800 was one entity

...

If you figured this much out, then you probably also figured out that the one entity is not done yet either.

If one entity managed to corner BTC already, we have bigger issues

Funny how people always try to explain stuff through one hugely powerful entity, the great manipulator.  
I guess it is easier to imagine a single actor and attribute intentions to this actor than to imagine the net effects of a large number of individuals.

These kinds of theories of one or a few entities controlling BTC prices are bonkers. 

Surely, there are some bigger players that engage in manipulation of BTC prices, and surely there is some very advantageous manipulation and signaling between various big players, but narrowing down the explanations to only a few big players misses some of the reality of market dynamics in which manipulation has its limits and even the manipulators lose control over BTC price direction from time to time because of either other big players or multiple small players that push the price beyond the ability to reasonably manipulate.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland. Been away from home for a couple of days but I see we're still going more or less sideways in the $620-$660 range.



Hopefully the sub-$600 days are gone for good.

[JimboToronto]

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact.

P.S. Welcome back.

[BitUsher]

I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the list of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

[bobabouey2]

I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the this of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

I prefer the bobchain of Inthereum.  http://intheoreum.org/#welcome

[JimboToronto]

I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the list of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

LOL  

You owe me 60 seconds for the time I just wasted.  
_______

@ bobabouey:

You owe me 60 seconds too. 

[gentlemand]

Yup. Bob and his pencil is going to lead us to a new dawn. I don't trust this computer shit one bit.

[savetherainforest]

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact.

P.S. Welcome back.

Jimbo... You need to take that notion with a grain of salt. Because... it might be less likely to see that happening in the West, and more likely happening in the East.

That "off exchanges" notion is mostly related to the mentality of nations and cultures. And basically in Ukrain / China / Russia / Mongolia / India .. it would be more likely to see "hand to hand" = "black market" transactions going on. All this compared to the West, where people would be more scared and paranoid of doing this sort of transactions. Also... in the East, people tend to not do business with strangers! Usually they need to be family, they need to live in the city, you need to know where they live, you need to consolidate the trust. Because I'm from the East(even if I live in Central Europe)... and I can tell you as a weird notion out there... I live in a small city of 50.000 people and I know where everyone lives, what part of the city if I don't know their exact address or who they are related with, and especially if I want to make transactions with them! And I would expect to be invited in their home or something like that if they want me to sell me something (like bitcoins), and in rest... everyone knows everyone! And you don't do business without knowing someone. No strangers allowed!

[JayJuanGee]

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact.

P.S. Welcome back.

Jimbo... You need to take that notion with a grain of salt. Because... it might be less likely to see that happening in the West, and more likely happening in the East.

That "off exchanges" notion is mostly related to the mentality of nations and cultures. And basically in Ukrain / China / Russia / Mongolia / India .. it would be more likely to see "hand to hand" = "black market" transactions going on. All this compared to the West, where people would be more scared and paranoid of doing this sort of transactions. Also... in the East, people tend to not do business with strangers! Usually they need to be family, they need to live in the city, you need to know where they live, you need to consolidate the trust. Because I'm from the East(even if I live in Central Europe)... and I can tell you as a weird notion out there... I live in a small city of 50.000 people and I know where everyone lives, what part of the city if I don't know their exact address or who they are related with, and especially if I want to make transactions with them! And I would expect to be invited in their home or something like that if they want me to sell me something (like bitcoins), and in rest... everyone knows everyone! And you don't do business without knowing someone. No strangers allowed!

Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections.

If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.   

[savetherainforest]

Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections.

If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.   

You maybe talking about billionaires and huge companies or corporations... But I'm talking about the common folk.

And we are not talking about the volumes. We are talking about ideologies!

I said that the people from Eastern cultures are more likely to do under the table deals than the scared, paranoid, under surveillance... Western common folk!

[DaRude]

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact.

P.S. Welcome back.

Jimbo... You need to take that notion with a grain of salt. Because... it might be less likely to see that happening in the West, and more likely happening in the East.

That "off exchanges" notion is mostly related to the mentality of nations and cultures. And basically in Ukrain / China / Russia / Mongolia / India .. it would be more likely to see "hand to hand" = "black market" transactions going on. All this compared to the West, where people would be more scared and paranoid of doing this sort of transactions. Also... in the East, people tend to not do business with strangers! Usually they need to be family, they need to live in the city, you need to know where they live, you need to consolidate the trust. Because I'm from the East(even if I live in Central Europe)... and I can tell you as a weird notion out there... I live in a small city of 50.000 people and I know where everyone lives, what part of the city if I don't know their exact address or who they are related with, and especially if I want to make transactions with them! And I would expect to be invited in their home or something like that if they want me to sell me something (like bitcoins), and in rest... everyone knows everyone! And you don't do business without knowing someone. No strangers allowed!

Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections.

If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.   

The logic seems reasonable, but it'd still prefer to see some facts. You would have to do it across all exchanges simultaneously. Split BTC10k only puts like BTC2k on each major exchange and then market sell? How much slippage will that get you? What will you do with all those yuans after that? What are the chances that another whale gets you and market actually moves against you? Now you sold your coins for cheap and got to buy them back at higher rate OTC? I'm sure it does happen, but would probably take more than BTC10k What's most likely is someone cornering the Chinese miners, wouldn't be surprised if one broker contracted them all, and all mined coins have been already presold with futures. Luckily that funny business would be cut in half in about 10days

[JayJuanGee]

Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections.

If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.   

You maybe talking about billionaires and huge companies or corporations... But I'm talking about the common folk.

And we are not talking about the volumes. We are talking about ideologies!

I said that the people from Eastern cultures are more likely to do under the table deals than the scared, paranoid, under surveillance... Western common folk!

I doubt that broad generalizations serve anyone.

We are going to find a variety of behaviors based on amount of capital and access, and likely a large number of regular folks that have mediocre amounts of capital (let's say purchasing less than 10 coins at a time) are going to be using regular available channels for such purchases (and other trading activities).

Surely, smaller volume traders, unless they just happen to have some kind of connection, are not going to either be able to negotiate some special arrangement outside of exchanges or even be benefitted by some special arrangement.. yeah, maybe they have a friend or an arrangement, but that is likely to be the exception rather than the rule.

Take again my example of some higher volume person purchasing 10k BTC or some variation of such, they are likely willing to pay a bit higher than the exchange price in order to acquire a large quantity of coins and not affect slippage.... and there also may be some  other shenanigans going on with those kinds of large volume folks that acquire a lot of coins and dump them on exchanges in order to push the price down off of the exchanges while acquiring for a lower price off exchanges.

We cannot form generalizations about all of this activity because there is a multitude of activities affecting prices, but there remains an incentive for such off exchange deals and purchases in which prices are pushed down on exchanges by coins that had been bought off of exchanges, whether east, west, weast or snourth.

[Karartma1]

I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the list of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

LOL  

You owe me 60 seconds for the time I just wasted.  
_______

@ bobabouey:

You owe me 60 seconds too. 

Likewise!

The bobchain distrupting techology will make you feel like on the top of the hill where you will slide your bob along the chain.
 

It's always good to laugh