My sentiments exactly. Not having a solid position on the very basics, like how many coins are going to be, was a huge red flag for me also. Actually, I liquidated part of my investment in GAW right there.

However, I'm not into black or white thinking. Things can be very dynamic. What once was a legit business can gradually turn into scam, and what starts as a scam may very well sustain a legit business if conditions are right for that.

I also agree with the remark that Josh is WAAAAAYYYYYY over his head with this venture. The "whitepaper" reads like someone has copy-pasted all the ideas from DarkCoin, Syscoin, VIA, Ripple and so on.
To say that in a few short months you will have all those techno-miracles ready for actual use by lay people is another red flag.
But I'm giving GAW the benefit of the doubt. This is crypto world. We are into uncharted territory so what is unbelievable and impossible may very well be in the process of happening.

I keep my distance, try to keep eyes wide open and give right now GAW a 20% chance of being legit and honest in their targets.
 

Yes, absolutely, they are paid pr articles. It says so at the bottom of the yahoo article, WISE PR.
We also have Amazon and Wallmart's spokepersons denying their involvement at Coinfire's article, so it's not a question of belief but a fact.

But you can't lie about Fraser's involvement, whatever that is. You can't make it up. There is some involvement here by someone quite high I'd say in the fiat world hierarchy.
It can range from a small favor by the father in law out of pure love for his daughter to an orchestrated full scale involvement of old style financial institutions. Old style financial institutions is la creme de la creme of scam. But that doesn't change the fact that they control our lives. And doesn't make it improbable at all to get involved in GAWcoin either.

Please don't be quiet and comment on having Cantor Fitzgerald involved in this shitty scam operation.

I didn't know who or what that was, but Wikipedia says this:
Cantor Fitzgerald & Co. is one of 22 primary dealers authorized to trade U.S. government securities with The Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Cantor Fitzgerald's 1,600 employees work in over 30 locations, including major financial centers in the Americas, Europe, Asia/Pacific, and the Middle East. Together with affiliates, Cantor operates in over 60 offices in 20 countries and has over 8,500 employees.

Seems to me that a scam shitty operation with enough money can very well shoot through the first months keeping the HashCoin valued at $20. Which, if achieved, won't make it a scam and shitty operation after all

 I just read yahoo announcement.

The interesting part: "Although relatively new, cryptocurrency is shifting the economic paradigm and that is reason enough for traditional financial organizations to start taking this seriously," said co-founder and early investor, Stuart Fraser, Vice Chairman and partner, Cantor Fitzgerald, L.P.

Your take on this? I've seen this yahoo pr mentioned here, but no one seems to care about having Cantor as INVESTOR in GAW? 

GAW case may scream of ponzi and scam, but what is Cantor Fitzgerald doing with Josh here?

Wikipedia says this for Cantor Fitzgerald:
Cantor Fitzgerald & Co. is one of 22 primary dealers authorized to trade U.S. government securities with The Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Cantor Fitzgerald's 1,600 employees work in over 30 locations, including major financial centers in the Americas, Europe, Asia/Pacific, and the Middle East. Together with affiliates, Cantor operates in over 60 offices in 20 countries and has over 8,500 employees.

It looks like somebody with real financial muscle is supporting GAW. Somebody who is a primary dealer of U.S. governement securities. I don't know exactly what this means, but with QE1,2,N it may be someone with a few billions to spare. Somebody who already knows that those billions come exactly from where GAW coupons come after all: by typing on a computer.

And this somebody is going public through Yahoo finance. I don't think this has ever happened before with any coin, with the exception perhaps of Ripple.

That makes me stop and think for a while instead of liquidating all my virtual, coupon producing prime nothings today ...

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it!

Indeed when I hover over the "flash" icon at the bottom I see that I am staking like you show.

Unfortunately, I have not seen a single reward although this message there says "Expected time to receive rewards is 2-3-4 hours" (time is fluctuating).
I am now on the 3rd day I'm running the wallet and still nothing 

I have 200,000 BAY at stake, it doesn't make any sense to be 58 hours online and staking with zero returns.

I really can't understand what's going on with this installation. My wallet is fully functional, encrypted, unlocked for staking, it reports that is staking but no stake rewards have shown up so far. Not a single one.

Anyone else having similar trouble?

I will transfer the wallet to another computer and report back here.

Thank you again!

Not able to stake, please help:

I have the 1.0.0.1-g wallet, it runs on a separate laptop in my home network.

On the OVERVIEW screen I see:
Wallet: Spendable: 209999 BAY
Stake: 0.00 BAY

I have unlocked the wallet for staking only, yet the Stake on the OVERVIEW screen stays ZERO.
Also, in STATISTICS page I see 8 connections and the Total Stake Weight is ZERO.

Am I forgetting something?
I have encrypted the wallet, I have locked and unlocked it for staking only, but I can't get it to show any stake.

Any ideas / suggestions please?

Well, yes, GAW can create any number of virtual "hashlets" and put them on the market as they see fit.

However, a hashlet in the hands of a customer is a liability for the company, even if this means they have to pay virtual "nothingness" in the form of the hashpoint tokens.

So it makes perfect sense for GAW to just add a few lines of code to their totally controlled market in their totally controlled servers to strip a careless customer off their property.
Given the aggressiveness of the company,  given than everything we see on zenportal site is under total control of GAW, it is 100% certain that they do employ such tactics.

Besides, it has been asked again and again in hashtalk from people who have lost money to just add a simple check on sell prices and the software could warn the seller with a simple message like YOU ARE SELLING AT A VERY LOW PRICE, DO YOU AGREE TO MOVE ON?


Well, I guess GAW's servers do the checks alright. But not to warn the customer. To trigger an immediate buy so one less liability for GAW.

Hey, you just described Fiverr operation here!
Not to mention Amazon's digital Turk...

Fiverr (for those of you not familiar with this) is a huge-huge site where people get $5 to perform a task they are experts in doing: Making a 2min video presentation, providing facebook marketing services, translating things, writing a name on a grain of rice, name it and it is there.
This "bullshit commission" is not so bullshit after all: it can be a huge operation where buyers find and pay sellers of any type of services.

Once the smart contract is in place and working, we will have the payment / escrow infrastructure to cover any type of operations.

Imagine contacting fiverr sellers and give them the opportunity to use BAY infrastructure for added income. Or better yet build a BAY-centered site where API calls to fiverr can find best services to contact for interested buyers.

BAY community should fund efforts to build such services. Getting into the real economy is a VAST opportunity. And it can happen.

Absolutely!
Being eager to catch the next pump and dump is NOT something good for the community or the coin.

To support the project we need to focus on what really matters.

First, we need to achieve the technical milestones. I don't worry at all about that, ICO money will see to that.

But even more important is to see those features being put to actual use.
I want to see Alibaba suppliers using the smart contract technology to actually deliver products.
I want to see an increasing number of customers / end users actually using the escrow features in BAY to actually buy and sell things.

The technical features are NOT a monopoly of BAY. There are many coin projects (SuperNet, VIA, DC, Counterparty, Maidsafe) that compete for real life adoption.

If there is anything that the community must push for is getting this technology into actual use.

That is the only way we can see valuations of $0.1 or even $1 in the long run.

Getting to bitrex to sell at 600 Satoshi because devs will achieve MilestoneX is OK but we've seen this movie a hundred times already and it doesn't end well....

I for one want to listen and discuss with BitBay team ideas and plans above the technical milestones: how to market the new features, how to get people actually use them!

That's exactly what baffles me also.
We've seen CEOs of huge corporations go down (ENRON comes to mind) where I'm sure they've got the best lawyers money can buy.
So what's this with GAW?

Are they blinded with greed and their (nicely paid) legal support has artfully lead them to believe that they have all corners covered and are immune to any hostile legal action?
Or are we so ignorant of how things work in corporate law that we fail to see that GAW operation is truly and well protected under USA law?

Can an american please discuss this in more depth?
 

Except the "faithful" don't see this as debt but as their lifetime opportunity to riches. Therefore they will happily go along with letting GAW keep their HPs in exchange of more HCs in the future. The plan is already spelled quite clearly in the white paper: you will need HCs for so many shiny things (from Orion to Prime Controller and for new amps for Prime hashlets) that you will be led again to never cash out but keep the "points / coins" into GAW system.
So GAW gets to keep whatever BTCs are mined in the HashPoints period PLUS delay for ever any outflow of real BTC / fiat out of their system.

What we will see from GAW on ICO day?

GAW has used bait and switch tactics to drive its customers like sheep into a den exactly like they wanted.

Their marketing is so abusively aggressive that leaves no choices once you're sucked into GAW.

I am a customer of theirs from the days of hardware miners.
I got sucked into hashlets and then primes because this kind of marketing takes no prisoners.
It is either pack and leave or shut up and do as you are told.

But I've got to hand it to them: when my hardware and early hashlets got promoted to Primes I got a virtual value of multiple times my initial purchase.
I was beyond break even (ROI) right then and there. How can one refuse this?

With the introduction of hashmarket they provided an exit which I have used multiple times to take my profits away from harm.
Of course, this happens at the expense of other investors that get in GAW at this point in time.

There is a ethical dilemma of getting profits at the expense of new comers. But this is asset trading and one's profits are some one else losses. Always is and always will be.

But from that point on GAW has gone crazy:
From owner of hardware to owner of virtual hash power mining BTC to owner of virtual hash power mining a digital "company loyalty" token is quite a leap...

So today I have one question and one prediction:

QUESTION:
It has been pointed out again and again that GAW is a USA based company and as such cant be a scam as CEO et al face very solemn consequences for their actions.
So far we've seen GAW playing with the VISA logo, mentioning names like Amazon and eBay and getting their customer base giving them money to do whatever they please in exchange of participation in the dream of hashcoin.
Are they so stupid as to expose themselves so much? Do they have enough money to buy such legal support that they can get away with anything?
Despite me being pissed off by their aggressiveness, their operation is indeed legit?

PREDICTION
Just yesterday BAY completed its 3,000 BTC ICO on bter. I invested in this believing that any alt project really needs very solid financial backing to have any chance of success. You just can't create a billion dollar cap working on your spare time at home alone. Many posters agree that BAY starts off with enough capital to make it through.

Thanks to its aggressive marketing, GAW must be sitting on 20+ times the money collected by BAY ICO.
So I predict they will pull HashCoin off to a point where very hard facts cannot be compensated by the next BIG DREAM.

8 days from now they will introduce Hash/Dash/Pash/Such/Coin

Immediately they will aggressively steer their sheep / customer base (myself included) into holding their HashCoins because:
a) you will need them to participate in Prime Controller thing as POS
b) you will need them to keep the various amps (shiny objects) working
c) you will need them because their value will reach $75

The price of Primes will rise in hashmarket to prove their point.

The Hash/Dash/Pash/Such/Coin will become a reality and will be traded in their own exchange (hashbase) once customers will be tied up holding their coins.

From that point on it's anybody's guess.
But ethical questions aside, there will be a chance to exit with profit...





 

 

same here, I've been trying all day to withdraw and get the same message

Every single detail at zenminers communicates to the buyer that he is buying a MINER, not a SHARE.

A MINER is a physical asset that is generating income by contributing hash power to some multipool and the income thus generated is directly influenced by a number of real market conditions.
Hashlets are represented as MINERs in all and every detail. Being in the "cloud" doesn't change their core quality which is the supply of hash power to a pool.
If this is real, then we can't speak of shares or securities but rather for ownership of actual, physical asset which is measured in actual, existing MH/s and has specific, real world expenses attached to it (hosting + electricity + maintenance).

If MINERS do not exist, then a SHARE to a company that has no income generating mechanism other than SHARES SELLS is the exact definition of PONZI.

Doesn't GAW have lawyers? Isn't it completely and utterly stupid to publicly and openly advertise a fraud?

I agree that the whole business model with the aggressive marketing, the aggressive zenpool payouts, the aggressive and most generous upgrade of original hashlets to prime hashlets etc can only be easily explained by the PONZI (SHARES) model.

However, it can also be explained in complicated business and technical arrangements as well as by a really aggressive and expansive business attitude.
As an example, someone suggested in an earlier post the possibility GAW may actually have 2x the MHs they are selling: for every 1MHs hashlet they sell, they keep and operate 2MHs power. Obviously such arrangements (if indeed exist) are valuable company secrets that will never be revealed.

To objectively judge such possibilities one must have access to information about almost any corner of altcoin industry: total hash rates, total asic manufacture, fluctuations in exchanges and so on...

Without that, we can only speculate. The easiest explanation is that they collect money from new buyers to pay out existing buyers aka ponzi.

I am an old buyer of hashlets and I am paid every single day like clockwork from GAW so far.
But this is NOT ENOUGH!

As an investor, I want to know if I can trust to invest MORE in hashlets.

Therefore, I must be able to judge what's the risk I'm taking with them.

If hashlets are assets directly corresponding to actual and measurable hash power, then my risk is low and will follow the general risks of this altcoin market. UP with zenminers!

If hashlets are shares to non-existent hash power, pay outs being based on MY money and new comers money, then this is BIG FRAUD. DOWN with zenminers!
 
I am more inclined to accept the idea of hashlets being real assets based mostly on that the other alternative (ponzi) is so stupid and has grave, unavoidable consequences for GAW.

I've been following VRC thread and the deal they made with jl777 to join supernet.

I'm not interested in pump & dump, I am interested in long term success.

So my question is: what is in superNet that is missing from VIA ecosystem (clearwallet et al)?

My gut feeling is that superNet is overhyped: an infrastructure for multiple altcoins to enable users switch between alts may be more confusing than useful.

Let's discuss this.

It may be Friday all around but it is still Thursday where Bohan is. 

Hell, no!
If you're able to buy urea with Uro your interest is to keep Uro price as low as possible.
On the other hand, if you're selling urea for Uro, your interest is to get $300 per coin.

Sellers are on a losing end here and I would expect them to organize huge and unequivocal publicity on deals done with Uro.
Sellers would make the whole world know they're accepting Uro and since they are multibillion companies I'd expect to see CNN and BBC running their commercials.
In this way not only will they be able to turn the URO paid for shipment into millions of dollars but perhaps also the other few hundred thousand URO (they quietly buy / mine / are given) will also turn into a few hundred million USD without the hassle of finding and shipping urea.

Except of course if URO is used as a kind of future contract where, by paying in URO, you simply secure the Urea shipment ahead of others and when the ship is loaded you then pay in good old USD...

Exactly HappyHogan...

Investors in crypto are playing with a toy never seen before in human history. That's why we are seeing ideas coming and going like wildfire. I don't consider everything that comes into altcoin world as scam. As an investor, I know I'm on wild west territory and the idea that seems a crazy lunatic scheme of some low life scammer may be, after all, the currency of the millennium.

Unfortunately, to become the currency of the millennium, you need to tackle, understand and conquer hard reality. Which may explain why URO, although honestly trying, has hit on the concrete wall of real life trading.

Weird stuff!

Hobopete disappears with a very cryptic "Over"

That is the very thread that he started to prove or disprove URO. I find it very disturbing that a person who was so talkative here, a person who took so deep interest in URO just erases all his posts in his own thread which he specifically started as an honest investigation.

I've been following this URO adventure for quite some time now and these are my conclusions so far:

1. URO is not a scam. But it is also not what it claims to be, that is 1 URO = 1mton of UREA.
If it was a scam we would never see any face or names or even a properly working wallet like someone pointed out here.
If it was 1 URO = 1mton of UREA, on the other hand, URO price should start and fluctuate around UREA's price, that is 0.6 BTC or so.

2. URO was (and perhaps still is) a long shot. An honest effort to MAKE IT HAPPEN.
Like some other contributor here wrote, URO's team are good salesmen. They had an idea and tried to make it into reality. So they made the protocols and perhaps did manage to persuade some real players in the urea market to play it along.

Unfortunately, this idea has a lot of failure points:
Whatever advantages one gains by using URO (saving on bank fees etc) can be had by using any other crypto out there.
If a NIER really wanted to do business with crypto, all he had to do is say "we accept bitcoin". No banking fees, fairly stable price, instant liquidity even into the millions a shipload would cost.
If NIERS and URO were determined to create their own market, then they had to PROVE that they did ship urea paid in URO using some international auditors for the task. Instead, we had hobopete and others trying to figure out which had who's urea...

Just my 2 cents...

Congratulations Hobopete on your decision, I will be following your thread attentively.

Could you also touch on the subject of how an actual order for urea should be placed?
I have discussed this with a company that imports cement into EU from Turkey and they are interested since they are very familiar with bulk carrier shipping.
The first thing that they wanted to know is whether or not there is an escrow service for Uro payment. Without a bank acting as an intermediary, they don't want to pay in advance without any guarantee of delivery and they also feel that Cash Against Documents is not going to be acceptable by GES. Can we have info on this?