If that is true, China government are shooting themselves in the foot. Banning bitcoin is like banning gold, and not sane government should ban wealth protection options or emerging disruptive technologies.
It's only my opinion but i think that china should be the LAST country interested in banning bitcoin or threating it as 'illegal'.
Really, don't know what to think, maybe it's true, but it's a little confusing if we count all the positive media coverage Bitcoin has on china TV on these last weeks.
Unfortunately all the countries are interested in not losing control on the monetary supply. Handing over the control of the currency means handing over power. Maybe not, U.S had pretty much run an more and liberal system for a long time because it's sure that it can keep winning under such a system, so no need to tighten things up. For a similar reason China may not feel the threat of Bitcoin because even if it becomes the world's reserve currency, China can outmuscle other nations in mining(at least do better than under the current system) and exert a big influence on the network. |
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I am using China Telecom's network, until now at least network traffic related to Bitcoin is OK.
Keep in mind that law in China works differently from that of West, in two ways:
1.Anything not explicitly permitted by law is technically prohibited;
2.No one will enforce the "not permitted yet not explicitly prohibited" part of the law until someone sees a chance to make money or directives are received from "relevant organs".(so yes we break laws everyday)
In this case, I guess it's China Telecom's management's own idea, not sure at which level the decision is made, but there must be some interest groups related to CT already feeling the threat of Bitcoin.
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maybe while we are at it we should sacrifice some virgins to the volcano god. i mean as long as 51% of people agree, i wouldn't want to do anything immoral after all.  I don't want to get into morality, but this would be unconstitutional. In fact, the rights of minority's are arguably the main reason there is such a thing as a Constitution at all. It is in western society deemed to be a vital condition for popular sovereignty, and hence for the rightfulness of democratic process. To what extent do they agree on this is doubtful, AFAIK U.S Constitution is one of a few that has some meaningful safeguard built in for the rights of minorities. In France for example, as long as it's approved by the parliament the minority is pretty much screwed. Examples including he hijab prohibition, and the criminalization of Armenian massacre denial speech. Have those cases held up in court? 'Cause that's what really matters, of course, in regard to the constitution. The western tradition I speak of is basically the Enlightenment tradition, derived from the likes of Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau and Kant. Ideals that instigated the American and - especially - the French Revolution. I'm not French and I do not know what the current French constitution says exactly, but I'm like 99,99% certain minority rights are protected, since such ideals were a major motive for the revolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Man_and_of_the_CitizenAlso, I don't think you can be part of the EU if such protections for minority's are not in place. This one I'm less than 99,99% sure on. (UK doesn't have a Constitution at all, so...) As for the hijab, if this has stood up in court, my guess is that they claimed that hijabs suppress women, or something like that. Hence, they actually banned them to protect women (= 'minority') rights. You may agree or (like me) disagree, but if this issue (or the Armenian thing) did indeed hold up in court, it probably says more about the individual judge than anything else. I don't know much either, but I think the focus of the problem is how you prioritize people's rights(French seem to favor equality over freedom of speech, unlike the U.S Constitution), and if effective measures are built into the Constitution to make sure it's respected, U.S Constitution's 2/3 state legislature approval requirement for amendment is a pretty strong protection clause IMO. The French Constitutional Council do work to check if parliament statutes are in conformation with the Constitution, but the justice selection process, I think, leaves a bit to be desired, from Wikipedia: The Council is made up of former presidents of the Republic who have chosen to sit in the council (which they may not do if they become directly involved in politics), and nine other members who serve non-renewable terms of nine years, one third of whom are appointed every three years, three each by the president of the Republic, the president of the National Assembly, and the president of the Senate,.[35] The president of the Council is selected by the president of the Republic.
Following from the 2008 constitutional revision, appointments to the Council will be subject to a Parliamentary approval process (Constitution, articles 13 and 56). As of August 2009, these provisions are not operational yet since the relevant procedures have not yet been set in law.
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maybe while we are at it we should sacrifice some virgins to the volcano god. i mean as long as 51% of people agree, i wouldn't want to do anything immoral after all. I don't want to get into morality, but this would be unconstitutional. In fact, the rights of minority's are arguably the main reason there is such a thing as a Constitution at all. It is in western society deemed to be a vital condition for popular sovereignty, and hence for the rightfulness of democratic process. To what extent do they agree on this is doubtful, AFAIK U.S Constitution is one of a few that has some meaningful safeguard built in for the rights of minorities. In France for example, as long as it's approved by the parliament the minority is pretty much screwed. Examples including he hijab prohibition, and the criminalization of Armenian massacre denial speech. |
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The American founding fathers did not want independence that much as well, they wanted something like "Englishman's rights" and representatives in the British parliament, the problem was the British army was already on its way, and in order to secure French support so they can fight, they must be an independent nation, thus they declared it.
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What's the currency transfer they did? Coupon code redemption? I never remember a time when I can transfer my fiats on Gox to another user in any other way.
There are the coupons, but you also transfer fiat when you exchange. He refers to the TOS, which talks specifically about "currency transfer" besides "bitcoin transfer", if it's only done through bitcoin then I think it quite a bit redundant, and with bitcoin the so-called "same-platform" restriction is useless. And what's with the 2.5% commission? I can never seem to find such a rate.(yes I routinely "transfer" between my USD/EUR/GBP accounts) I guess it's just the coupons then. Yes, but still the 2.5% commission part is not clear, I have never been able to move USD to EUR or vice versa with coupon, to my best knowledge it's not allowed, maybe it's deprecated long ago and they are just too lazy to update the TOS. |
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What's the currency transfer they did? Coupon code redemption? I never remember a time when I can transfer my fiats on Gox to another user in any other way.
There are the coupons, but you also transfer fiat when you exchange. He refers to the TOS, which talks specifically about "currency transfer" besides "bitcoin transfer", if it's only done through bitcoin then I think it quite a bit redundant, and with bitcoin the so-called "same-platform" restriction is useless. And what's with the 2.5% commission? I can never seem to find such a rate.(yes I routinely "transfer" between my USD/EUR/GBP accounts) |
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Microsoft Research and Microsoft are of a...different atmosphere. Microsoft Research employs some of the world's best computer scientists, however thanks to the byzantine structure of M$, most of the achievements of the Research can never be turned into products.
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well now that was interesting and yet intense.
sounds like it would be a great idea if it wasn't so resource intensive. i guess the devs have already decided it's too confusing for the community.
too bad. they may be right.
OT sounds to me like a more realistic idea for anonymity. I think it's a great concept one which I hope to someday see. However knowing the mindset of our developers, anything that requires inserting itself into the protocol just won't happen for fear of making a mistake. That's understandable. I think for now OT's place is being an anonymous and untraceble bitcoin exchanging platform, there will be people who need it, and this can be platform independent. |
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First it's Bitcoin early adopters are no different from Opencoin Inc's printing press, then it's OT is no different from Ripple, there seems to be no bottom to the Ripple pimps' absymal intellectual capability, and that's why you should stay away from them.
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well now that was interesting and yet intense.
sounds like it would be a great idea if it wasn't so resource intensive. i guess the devs have already decided it's too confusing for the community.
too bad. they may be right.
OT sounds to me like a more realistic idea for anonymity. |
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So, according to your link, Friedcat's name is Xinyu Jiang? Google image search on "Xinyu Jiang". If you're right, this movie just got a lot better. /sarcasm He uses the E-mail address fnnirvana@gmail.com on this forum, google it and you will find a lot more.  PS: I know what you found, but syllables are not everything in the Chinese pronunciation, tones are a very important distinguishing factor. |
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The bitcoin train sucks, it stops often, a rock on the track will derail the train and the conductor takes weeks to verify your ticket, often requiring you to show proof of residency, your passport, and often asks you how much money he has deposited in your bank account to make sure you own the account, even if you paid with cash.
Not to mention most of the people on the train have been on it for months, repeating "I'll get there someday".
Back at Jan 12th this guy created a thread for top-calling: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136169.msg1450869#msg1450869 , and guess what, out of the hundreds who have posted their guesses in January, no one had even came close to nail the top, no one, no one then even believed the price can be above $100. I am sorry if you have missed the train and the space shuttle afterwards, during the 133 times run-up from $2 to $266, but it's a fact of the world that not everyone makes money in the market. |
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Yup, I would agree if it's really just one random dude on the forum creating the world's biggest mining factory.  |
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MtGox does way more that just provide a platform for trading Bitcoins. They are also in the money transmission business according to their TOS. If I can copy and paste these terms so can an officer at the US DHS. https://mtgox.com/terms_of_service. PLATFORM TRANSACTION PROCESS FOR BITCOIN TRANSFER TRANSACTIONS Members may at any time transfer any amount of Bitcoins to any other Members as well as any other Bitcoin users even if they are not Members (the “Transferee”). Bitcoin Transfer Transactions may be initiated at any time from the following page: https://mtgox.com/index.html. Transferees shall be identified by their bitcoin address. Members shall be solely responsible for ensuring that any transfer of Bitcoins to a Transferee shall be a valid and legal transaction not infringing any laws including money-laundering laws and regulations. Mt. Gox’s responsibility shall be limited to using reasonable technical efforts to ensure the receipt of the Bitcoins transferred. When conducting Bitcoin Transfer Transactions with a Bitcoin user who is not a Member, Mt. Gox’s responsibility shall be further limited to ensuring the transfer of the necessary technical data to the Bitcoin peer-to-peer network. No Commission of any kind will be charged by Mt. Gox for Bitcoin Transfer Transactions. PLATFORM TRANSACTION PROCESS FOR CURRENCY TRANSFER TRANSACTIONS Members may at any time transfer any amount of currencies held on their Account to any other Members (the “Transferee”). Transfers to third parties who are not Members is not possible. Currency Transfer Transactions may be initiated at any time from the following page: https://mtgox.com/index.html. Transferees shall be identified by their Account name. Members shall be solely responsible for ensuring that any transfer of currencies to a Transferee shall be a valid and legal transaction not infringing any laws including money-laundering laws and regulations. Mt. Gox’s responsibility shall be limited to using reasonable technical efforts to ensure the receipt of the currencies transferred. No Commission of any kind will be charged by Mt. Gox for Currency Transfer Transactions, except when the Account of the Transferee is set up in a currency different than the currency transferred (in which case the 2.5% Commission shall automatically apply). I will leave it to reader to judge if Karpeles did lie after reading the above. What's the currency transfer they did? Coupon code redemption? I never remember a time when I can transfer my fiats on Gox to another user in any other way. |
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Fellowtraveler, maybe we arrange something to test out your "voting pool" and BM-related ideas?
As for my comment you quoted, you know what is of greatest interest to Bitcoiners is how can it be used to create distributed exchanges.
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Since I have been working on this for longer than most on this thread, please let me explain 2 issues: 1> Cash on the barrelhead - WoT system need to assure client that Tx is valid. BM provides this with PoW and OT can reflect the validity on *chain. Unlimited currency/contract/commodity/document.. whatever. Are ya with me? 2> OT can be affiliated with other OT servers through federation but also Trusted computing such as TPM(PAL) -check in Hal's bcflick: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=154290Mike Heath pointed to this solution. Thx What we are trying to do is square Zooko's triangle: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/squarezookoThe next stage is the watering hole effect - groups acting as agents, not individuals. Pooling resources for clients - not the current free-for-all. I think you will need a bit more "back to the basics" explanation, a lot here don't even seem to understand an OT server is used to gain untraceability, and compare it to another kind of Ripple. |
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Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks
Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc... Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers. In a traditional bank system, bank A open an account in bank B and bank B open an account in bank A, and they can do transactions both way. But due to bitcoin is not a single entity, traditional banks can open accounts in bitcoin network while bitcoin network can not open a bank account at traditional bank, only individuals can I still think localbitcoins.com is better than the idea of P2P exchange I don't think a lot of people realise this but localbitcoins.com is actually a centralised server model ... and does anyone know how much data they retain about all the recorded transactions/messaging that passes through their server? ... wonder which jurisdiction/locale the localbitcoins.com server is located in and what their privacy policy is by the way? The advantage of OT is just if government raids an OT server, they will get nothing, no store of currency, no meaningful transaction record, no destruction of operator identity(if he remains strictly pseudonymous and uses Tor) , he can just find another server and get online again. |
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Probably better to stay on topic, everyone.
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