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[...] we must spread the word!!
Yes, as soon as you can buy something for it in a suitable market. money that nobody accept is a money or scam? Why hold balls that can not be spent, if you can exchange them to bitcoins or dollars that you can spend?
Please don't see we must spread the word!! only from customer view. What about with the local shops? Spread the word includes more! For example: - Create for your local city flyers with jumio vouchers - Share this flyer in kiosks, gas- station, schools wherever - Speak with the owner of the shops for accept bytes in 2020 - The owner can only win with this and if he accept bytes he have new customers, too ~ This is maybe the some right way, not perfect, but a good start an a Win-Win-Win situation for all for all involved. + you get rich  * before 2020 we need more exchanges for volume and a service like bitpay for bytes. Tony should now be able to accelerate an Open Bazaar adaptation.
The concept of the open bazaar is very interesting, but it looks like a cemetery? or i am wrong and the platform have trades? Instead of always asking, use the lego stones of byteball and start! tony is a smart people, but he need the help of community. Hi altcoinb, I seriously like this idea ! Printing smart voucher flyers and then distribute it :-) |
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wow nice pump today for gbyte on cryptox  I am looking at it on Bittrex and there is a small 10% bump in price but nothing to be excited about. Currently the daily volume is only 6BTC so it basically means that the GBYTE market at the moment is very ill liquid. I think until we break the 0.016 GBYTE/BTC rate then we are still in a bear market and we can still be making newer lows. Its unfortunate that we didn't get the Binance listing last month. Speculators don't put money in a coin with an association to a bite gag. Even a listing on Binance does not change this. Marketing is still miserable, but in the end it's what the gamblers are into, because you can hardly actually apply a project so far. Speculators put money where they want without care about immature opinions. Your negativity is useless and most of your posts are irrelevants and irrespectuous. Try at less to read carefully the whitepaper to avoid to look silly. |
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Wild witness wasting bytes appeared!  True, be an official witness requires a high reputation within the Byteball community and the chance to have your witness unit selected as lighthouse is very low to not say inexistant. But this point can't stop you to run your own witness node and to set it in your main wallet to be your own witness and have your transaction confirmed faster. And if your friends trust you, you can be their permuted witness. And more people trust you, more chances you have to see your witness unit selected as a milestone of the main chain and even give you the hope to be elected as official in future.
Would you trust any individual? I dont know who to trust, so I let the hub/network restrictions decide. In plus, running a non-official witness node will create an alternate version of history that could save all the chain integrity in case of unfortunate behaviors by one or more witnesses.
All chain integrity could be harm by unfortunate behaviors by one or more witnesses??!?!? Really?? By the way, in my interpretation, the majority of witnesses means 6+1.
ups Well, if you don't trust yourself barborrico, who can you trust ;-) Honnest witnesses are here to warranty the chain integrity as lighthouses/milestones. And as I stated to pineapple express, bad behaviors can be detected by honnest witnesses. For instance, if dishonnest witnesses collude in an attempt to rewrite history, this foolish act will inevitabily generate orphan units and that breaks the chain integrity of these units until the genesis unit. Honnest witnesses will then select a parallel history to keep chain integrity. Sorry barborrico and pinneapple express, Small imprecision, it's not only honest witnesses that can detect bad behaviors and rupture of chain integrity but also normal nodes. So, normal nodes can change their path until older witness-authored units or worst until the genesis unit through alternate chains. |
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And yes, the distinction is pretty subtile and the perception of witnesses true role is complex as you stated.
I think the consensus is more about the perception of who is honest or not than about the witnesses. Witnesses units are just milestones (and assistants to validate previous transactions as fast as possible) in the path until the genesis unit which allows normal nodes to selected the best/main chain.
But, imo, you can't say "they are just milestones" when they are a key element. The referee of the match. The flow that makes transactions confirm and root them into reality. The path that all users follow to achieve finality of data they post. Can you have a formal match without referee? No. They are THE milestones. Also I wanted to share another thing. "well, we dont need to focus on tps because low usage...". But I see it differently: Can be presented byteball to, for example, google, and ask them to be a witness, with a transaction platform which "only" achieves 15tps and clogs up at 20? NO.Can be a good advertising the real tps amount after improvements? YES YES definitely yes.These milestones are key elements for normal nodes due to their reputation of honesty and because they immune the network against some kinds of attacks. But pathes choose by normal nodes don't need to cross all the witnesses (majority is enough) and in fact they can be parallel until the main chain jonction. In worst case scenario, the jonction will occur only at the genesis unit. It's hypothetical, and deserves Tony confirmation, but I think that it could be possible to have a formal match even without "referees" because the normal nodes will choose the best path, from their own point of view, until the genesis unit. Unfortunately, the path could be pretty long and could cross the path of bad players. That's why Tony introduced the witnesses concept as a shortcut until the genesis unit and to immune the network against attacks. Well, TPS is a complex question. I don't think to be able to give you a good answer because I agree at same time with the previous answer and with your position. I can just hope to be myself working on an improvement ^_^; |
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Yes and no. I think it's a matter of interpretation. A witness who doesn't post frequently enough is, technically, useless for the network integrity and to assist normal nodes to have their transactions validated as fast as possible. So, that means this lazy witness is potentially a bad witness and should be exclude at term. A temporary lack of posting could be obviously tolerated when there are technical reasons but it should be limited in time.
So, in my opinion, a witness has a mandatory behavior to be selected/elected as a good witness.
A witness is incentivized to post frequently enough. This is not the same as having mandatory behavior. Technically, if 7 witnesses stop posting, network halts. Due to a law enforcement, they could have to do it, who knows... Witnesses have to be very distributed over the world. I think almost all users/all potential users don't care about witnesses selection, like me. They will accept whatever byteball foundation say. Or better said, what byteball.org/bb says regarding to witnesses list choices. As non-official witness, you definitely don't care about the incentives because you don't receive them. No, network will not halt if 7 witnesses are down. But normal nodes will take more time to define their best chain until the genesis unit. That's why, all of people who care about Byteball network should honnestly consider to run a non official witness and set it as permuted witness for our own wallet and give our non official witness address to our friends. Plan the worst to get the best. Thank you again for your time I am not saying that is not going to work, it is simply that I would call "distributed trust" instead of "decentralized trust", because anyone can easily see 12 witness as 12 central points. Byteball is a distributed database with open access and distributed consensus amongst 12 witnesses. You're welcome. And thank you for the previous compliment, that means my readings pay :-) I'm just an admirator of the master creation ^_^; And yes, the distinction is pretty subtile and the perception of witnesses true role is complex as you stated. I think the consensus is more about the perception of who is honest or not than about the witnesses. Witnesses units are just milestones (and assistants to validate previous transactions as fast as possible) in the path until the genesis unit which allows normal nodes to select the best/main chain. |
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Yes and no. I think it's a matter of interpretation. A witness who doesn't post frequently enough is, technically, useless for the network integrity and to assist normal nodes to have their transactions validated as fast as possible. So, that means this lazy witness is potentially a bad witness and should be exclude at term. A temporary lack of posting could be obviously tolerated when there are technical reasons but it should be limited in time.
So, in my opinion, a witness has a mandatory behavior to be selected/elected as a good witness.
A witness is incentivized to post frequently enough. This is not the same as having mandatory behavior. Technically, if 7 witnesses stop posting, network halts. Due to a law enforcement, they could have to do it, who knows... Witnesses have to be very distributed over the world. I think almost all users/all potential users don't care about witnesses selection, like me. They will accept whatever byteball foundation say. Or better said, what byteball.org/bb says regarding to witnesses list choices. As non-official witness, you definitely don't care about the incentives because you don't receive them. No, network will not halt if 7 witnesses are down. But normal nodes will take more time to define their best chain until the genesis unit. That's why, all people who care about Byteball network should honnestly consider to run a non official witness and set it as permuted witness for our own wallet and give our non official witness address to our friends. Plan the worst to get the best. |
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Wild witness wasting bytes appeared! True, be an official witness requires a high reputation within the Byteball community and the chance to have your witness unit selected as lighthouse is very low to not say inexistant. But this point can't stop you to run your own witness node and to set it in your main wallet to be your own witness and have your transaction confirmed faster. And if your friends trust you, you can be their permuted witness. And more people trust you, more chances you have to see your witness unit selected as a milestone of the main chain and even give you the hope to be elected as official in future.
Would you trust any individual? I dont know who to trust, so I let the hub/network restrictions decide. In plus, running a non-official witness node will create an alternate version of history that could save all the chain integrity in case of unfortunate behaviors by one or more witnesses.
All chain integrity could be harm by unfortunate behaviors by one or more witnesses??!?!? Really?? By the way, in my interpretation, the majority of witnesses means 6+1.
ups Well, if you don't trust yourself barborrico, who can you trust ;-) Honnest witnesses are here to warranty the chain integrity as lighthouses/milestones. And as I stated to pineapple express, bad behaviors can be detected by honnest witnesses. For instance, if dishonnest witnesses collude in an attempt to rewrite history, this foolish act will inevitabily generate orphan units and that breaks the chain integrity of these units until the genesis unit. Honnest witnesses will then select a parallel history to keep chain integrity. |
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Wild unknown witness wasting bytes appeared! A witness node differs from normal nodes by its mandatory behavior. A witness node has to post periodically units on the chain to validate as fast as possible previous transactions (from normal nodes) by referencing them as parents.
Hmmm afaik, a witness has no mandatory behavior. They post each 100 units or less in order to receive payload bytes, but they can no posting at all. Am I wrong? I do not remember reading that on the whitepaper. Yes and no. I think it's a matter of interpretation. A witness who doesn't post frequently enough is, technically, useless for the network integrity and to assist normal nodes to have their transactions validated as fast as possible. So, that means this lazy witness is potentially a bad witness and should be exclude at term. A temporary lack of posting could be obviously tolerated when there are technical reasons but it should be limited in time. So, in my opinion, a witness has a mandatory behavior to be selected/elected as a good witness. |
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In fact, you have to change marketing seriously. Byteball it is not decentralized, and never will by design.
The cause is simply: when I want to become a witness, I have to ask EVERY NETWORK NODE (controlling byteball main hub would do this easier).
Very different is the case when I want to become a miner, I DON'T HAVE TO ASK ANYONE.
Because of that, PoW is decentralized, and Byteball not.
Byteball is a DISTRIBUTED database with twelve high reputable nodes that help network to reach consensus.
That twelve nodes FORM a single point of failure, and the power those witnesses have over the network is not related to this fact.
Don't pretend to be what you are not.
Hi barborrico, As I told previously to pineapple express, everybody can run a witness node and set it as its own permuted witness with the possibility of keeping the chain healty until the genesis unit with its own reality perception. Better, we can be the lighthouse of many. So, yes, you can be a non-official witness without asking permission to anyone and who knows if you'll not be one of official witnesses one day. Bye Of course, I can TRY to be a witness without asking permission. A witness node does not differ on a normal one. But why doing it? Only a big name can be witness in practice. It does not happen magically. It is related to have a reputation to lose if the witness starts to bad behaving (although only by colluding with another 5 or more). So, no, I can't be a non-official witness. Be elected by nodes is the same as asking for permission to all nodes for being on their witnesses list. I can only have that permission by having a reputation to lose. I trust byteball.org/bb default hub, if it suggests me a witness change, I will accept. In any case, I will change my witnesses list if it is incompatible with network. Hi barborrico, A witness node differs from normal nodes by its mandatory behavior. A witness node has to post periodically units on the chain to validate as fast as possible previous transactions (from normal nodes) by referencing them as parents. True, be an official witness requires a high reputation within the Byteball community and the chance to have your witness unit selected as lighthouse is very low to not say inexistant. But this point can't stop you to run your own witness node and to set it in your main wallet to be your own witness and have your transaction confirmed faster. And if your friends trust you, you can be their permuted witness. And more people trust you, more chances you have to see your witness unit selected as a milestone of the main chain and even give you the hope to be elected as official in future. In plus, running a non-official witness node will create an alternate version of history that could save all the chain integrity in case of unfortunate behaviors by one or more witnesses. By the way, in my interpretation, the majority of witnesses means 6+1. Bye |
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In fact, you have to change marketing seriously. Byteball it is not decentralized, and never will by design.
The cause is simply: when I want to become a witness, I have to ask EVERY NETWORK NODE (controlling byteball main hub would do this easier).
Very different is the case when I want to become a miner, I DON'T HAVE TO ASK ANYONE.
Because of that, PoW is decentralized, and Byteball not.
Byteball is a DISTRIBUTED database with twelve high reputable nodes that help network to reach consensus.
That twelve nodes FORM a single point of failure, and the power those witnesses have over the network is not related to this fact.
Don't pretend to be what you are not.
Hi barborrico, As I told previously to pineapple express, everybody can run a witness node and set it as its own permuted witness with the possibility of keeping the chain healty until the genesis unit with its own reality perception. Better, we can be the lighthouse of many. So, yes, you can be a non-official witness without asking permission to anyone and who knows if you'll not be one of official witnesses one day. Bye |
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Byteball need witnesses + POS. If the witnesses honest, DAG works in the fast mode. If the Byteball witnesses under 51 attack, DAG switch to POS algorithm (slow mode) until 51 attack will not be fixed and the new witnesses will not replace malicious ones. Hi pineapple express, What you call 51 attack isn't really possible with the Byteball DAG model because there is no miner and due to the serialized logic of partial orders and then of total orders. Obviously, majority of witnesses could collude in attempt to rewrite history. Unfortunately for them, an attempt of rewriting history has severe consequences with the Byteball model because everybody is allowed to post/write units/data in the chain/database. Indeed, every unit posted in the chain has a referenced parent and this parent a chain of referenced ancestors until the genesis unit. Alter the chain of a unit ancestors will create inevitabilly orphan units and potentially break the chain until the genesis unit. Honnest witnesses can detect this kind of paradoxal events and choose a new chain as best chain. Worst, honnest witnesses will exclude dishonnest ones and communicate about these renegates publicly to be sure that community will exclude them definitively. In plus, Byteball model tolerates 1 witness permutation that allows potential alternate histories/realities to coexist along the main chain. These alternate chains can be choose to handle the cataclismic event of rewriting attempt. Eventually, the role of witnesses are to post units periodically every 100 non-witnesses main chain which will be used as lighthouses (or luminous witnesses) by non-witnesses. These navigational aids for non-witnesses allow them to choose the best chain/path until the genesis unit. So, witnesses can't rewrite non-witnesses posts and their "power" is very limited and mainly honorific. By the way, everybody can run a witness node and set it as its own permuted witness with the possibility of keep the chain healty until the genesis unit with its own reality. Better, we can be the lighthouse of many ;-) Yes, we can be a non-official witness. Bye |
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Thanks for the suggestion but since most users (like Ben) are not going to be sponsors, we don't want to introduce extra steps for them.
I was thinking the opposite. Make users like Ben sponsors and let them spread the platform. But if you say they are not going to be sponsors, I have nothing more to say. I know what it feels when your suggestion is rejected, but what I say is based on data: out of 72000 steem attested users, only 6700 had ever referred someone else; out of 25000 real name attested users, only 1700 had ever referred someone else. I've talked with many people about the possibility of certifying their identity with the real name bot but the idea of providing a copy of their ID card repels most of them. Even with the money incentives. People care about the security of their official documents. Jumio is literally an unknown company based in the USA. The disrespect of foreign citizen rights expressed by the USA government and the last news about GAFAs security leaks don't help to trust the Jumio company. As I stated on Twitter few days ago, I will certify my identity in next days (waiting my new ID card, previous one outdated since October 10th) due to the warranties provided by the smart voucher about the bytes use I will give to people. By the way, I'm a binational citizen. Should I certify my identity twice ? Jumio has verified over 130 million identities. Sure, some people you speak with will not want to, but the fact they have already done so many shows many are fine with it note: many people in crypto are probably more paranoid about identities than non cyrpto people in the real world (which is the vast majoirty of the worlds population) I totally agree with your point. |
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Thanks for the suggestion but since most users (like Ben) are not going to be sponsors, we don't want to introduce extra steps for them.
I was thinking the opposite. Make users like Ben sponsors and let them spread the platform. But if you say they are not going to be sponsors, I have nothing more to say. I know what it feels when your suggestion is rejected, but what I say is based on data: out of 72000 steem attested users, only 6700 had ever referred someone else; out of 25000 real name attested users, only 1700 had ever referred someone else. I've talked with many people about the possibility of certifying their identity with the real name bot but the idea of providing a copy of their ID card repels most of them. Even with the money incentives. People care about the security of their official documents. Jumio is literally an unknown company based in the USA. The disrespect of foreign citizen rights expressed by the USA government and the last news about GAFAs security leaks don't help to trust the Jumio company. As I stated on Twitter few days ago, I will certify my identity in next days (waiting my new ID card, previous one outdated since October 10th) due to the warranties provided by the smart voucher about the bytes use I will give to people. By the way, I'm a binational citizen. Should I certify my identity twice ? |
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out of 25000 real name attested users, only 1700 had ever referred someone else.
I only see 20k: https://byteball.co/attestorsAnyway, two more questions: How many of that 1700 were when refferral rewards was inmediately spendable (with and without counting venezuelan ones)? And: When will you spend your deserved 1%? Thank you for all responses, especially the reason behind your apparently arbitrarly decision. I don't like arbitrarily decisions. byteball.co data aren't updated in real time. There is a latency but I don't know the reason. |
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Hello Tonych and Byteball team,
In Chapter 6 of the Byteball whitepaper, you say : [...], and also expect them to post frequently enough, [...]
Could you be more explicit about your definiton of "frequently" and "enough" because it could be an open door to abuses even considering the network fees.
Thank you
Chapter 13 says this: Payload commission goes to witnesses. To incentivize witnesses to post
frequently enough, we split payload commission equally among all witnesses who
are quick enough to post within 100 MC indexes after the paying unit (the faster
they post, the faster this unit becomes stable). If all 12 witnesses have posted
within this interval, each receives 1/12 of the payload commission. If only one
witness has posted, he receives the entire payload commission. In the special case
that no witness has posted within this interval, they all receive 1/12 of payload
commission.
Hello Tarmo888, By network fees, I was thinking about the fees of posting units, not about commissions whose I remembered about the 1/12 ratio. A mix of chapters 13 & 14 give me a more appropriate answer about my "frenquently" & "enòugh" question to continu to fill my blueprint notebook. I read the whitepaper at beggining of 2017 and didn't take any note, so, I'm doing my homeworks now ;-) Thank you for help ! |
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Hello Tonych and Byteball team,
In Chapter 6 of the Byteball whitepaper, you say : [...], and also expect them to post frequently enough, [...]
Could you be more explicit about your definiton of "frequently" and "enough" because it could be an open door to abuses even considering the network fees.
Thank you
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