ich wuerde alleine 50 bestellen, auf meine Email anfrage haben sie nicht reagiert.

even if the balance is very small like 2 BTC, I assume there would not be any preferred payouts, as there are simply no bitcoins.

You can
a) wait till the new operation starts and Maciej is able to pay back some amount(s) over time
b) Make an official claim and go via the legal route, probably not worth it for 2 BTC
c) Join the investors and add additional new money/time to make the project work

you should add more options. i also clicked it so it now could mean 12000 or 120000 or 2 million

unless you win a court case against him to put him officially into bankruptcy you can try to veto for yourself as much as you want. We have identified only 11 non-cooperative users so far, the vast majority actively supports in principle our bail out plan and we would try to give our best to make this happen and create a good website.

In case someone would pay more for the technology please feel free to join us investors, PM me and make this bail out project happen. It took us a big effort with many hours of discussion to acquire the current 50.000 Euros and this is just a limited capital for a lot of things to do..... We all have frozen coins and would like to be reimbursed for our losses

Dear Bitmarket.eu "stakeholders",

Last week-end from 15-17.3.2013 we had an investors' "kick-off" meeting in Helsinki about the situation of bitmarket.eu, and we just wanted to inform everyone quickly about the main decision points:

1) Bitmarket.eu operations will be closed down. The site will only be left open to handle the old frozen coin issues for which Maciej as the owner of bitmarket.eu is responsible.

2) The group of investors will create a new legal entity in form of a newly founded Aktiengesellschaft with seat in Germany. The company name will be "BiTalo AG" with a website at www.bitalo.com (also bitalo.org and bitalo.net have been registered).

3) So far we have acquired a starting capital of minimum 50.000 euros from a small group of investors. It is still possible to contact us for additional investment of NEW money.

4) It will not be possible to bring in "frozen coins" as shares to the new company, as this is not feasible from a legal point of view. We are still investigating possible solutions for treating "frozen coins" as a long-term investment.

5) Maciej, who represents bitmarket.eu, will sell the code of the old site to the new company, while the user database and debts will remain as his responsibility. Maciej will not be a shareholder nor participate in the administration of the new co-operation.

6) The goal of the new company is to create a new platform with new trading and market functions and efficient security measures so no admin can access a user's bitcoins without consent of the user. Old bitmarket.eu users may create an account on the new site if they wish, but the new company has no obligations towards them.

7) The plan is to start with 6 persons: 3 persons in the management board and 3 in the supervisory board in official roles. They will be paid no salary until the site is profitable.

The new company will invest the starting capital into the development of a new site and therefore employ Maciej as a consultant. Additional developers will be hired, and one of Maciej's main duties will be to transfer his knowledge of how the code works to new developers and administrators.

9) As long as the new company employs Maciej, he will use part of his income to reimburse frozen coins. A more detailed payback plan might be announced on the old bitmarket.eu website by Maciej. The new company will only be responsible to verify that Maciej fulfills this duty.

10) In case additional people are interested in participation and/or investments, just contact mralbi by PM.

who wants fiat these days...maybe some guys in cyprus. offer some products/services

i have done some presentations, but all material is in german. if it is of any help feel free to pm me

If someone is still a potential investor and would like to join our investors meeting next weekend in Helsinki please PM me, the agenda is ready by now.

no, it was from the official website. I simply did the mistake and combined windows with pirate copies

Well, the bitmarket.eu bankruptcy could use some coins, lol.

I am currently trying to reopen the service so that we have a chance to "earn" or frozen coins back which the previous admin "lost"

there is only one basic rule for bitcoin:
Buy bitcoin with all excess money you have
Sell bitcoin only if you need.

NO! Bitcoin is NOT FIAT (Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law). It is a virtual commodity not backed up by anything.

But on the other hand, this is the same as for silver or gold. Gold or silver are NOT backed up by anything. 1 gramm Gold is one gramm Gold and 1 Bitcoin is 1 Bitcoin. It is simply a "convention" that people beleive this has value and are willing to give you something for it. But this is the same for Bitcoin. It is backed up by the convention of people like me and you beleive that this thing has value because of the intrinsic properties (rare, other people accept it, unfakeable, cheap, anonymous etc.)

changing back to FIAT currency is definetly not what i would recommend. When the debt based monatry system crashes 1 USD equals basically 0 USD, while 1 BTC equals 1 BTC.

I would just buy more from the FIAT you have left

no, i am not a legal expert, but trust me, since i have more frozen coins than you for sure, the first thing i did after realizing that my coins were lost was doing my own research on what my legal opportunities are, this included getting professional legal advice on how should i proceed to get my frozen coins back, how much the costs would be and the chances to actually see some money.

From this assessment i came to the conclusion that taking Maciejs offer to cooperate and help us to reopen a new and bestter service is the only way that we have a chance to get coins actually back. We now have setup a team to start the bailout process were some highly motivated people (who have nothing to do with the loss of the old bitcoins!) actually invest a lot of their free time PLUS their private savings to make this happen and we actually would appreciate a bit more constructive cooperation and discuss ideas out of the mess.

Instead we are just discussing destructive topics on how much a courtcase might cost etc.

yeah, legally speaking it simply not a "crime" in the legal sense, unless you can prove that he INTENTIONALLY lost the coins or that he INTENDED to "steal" them. When he says explicitally that this was NOT intended (as he does) it is basically impossible to prove the opposite.

Even though he had no right to gamble with your coins, you cannot assume from that, that he "stole" them or did this in any way intentionally.

I mean you have the right to be reimbursed for your loss, but it is not a crime. The ONLY thing you can do is to sue him for the damage he caused to you and that is

a) tricky to prove
b) useless for the above metioned reasons


The government and all the crappy police institutions plus courts etc. are unfortunately NOT here to help you, they don't give a shit, they are just there for their own sake of being paid by the tax payer.

PS: 15 min at the police? Last time it took me already 45 min queueing and after that 1 hour just to explain what a bitcoin is and why it has value, lol

how many would you take?

well, when i just cite from your own link where it says:

"Before taking legal action against a foreign national, you should consider whether or not it is likely to be worthwhile.

First of all, it may cost a lot in legal fees as it is questionable whether the defendant will either readily agree to repayment of a debt, or have sufficient money to repay debts. Therefore, you need to ensure that you have sufficient funds to commence proceedings.

Secondly, you need to consider the likelihood of being able to recover the debt from the foreign national. If you do obtain judgment against them and they refuse to comply with it, you can take enforcement action through the courts"

So, good luck and keep us updated! As far as the police thing is concerned, they will simply not do anything at all because there is no "public interest". (If it is true or not does not matter, but they are only interested in million dollar frauds or murder stuff). When you start to explain that someone lost bitcoins, they will tell you to go for a private court case, where you will run into the problems mentioned above.

as long as inflation is only meassured with this "consumer price index" crap governments can pretend it is around 2 or 3 percent. It is just crap, as the entities "creating" the money (BANKS) will not buy plasma TVs, cars, holiday trips or whatever consumer stuff, but they will buy certificates, debt papers, precious metals or stocks/derivates. THERE you can see the real inflation ;-)


PS: you can also see it in the official figures already... when a computer hardware is getting 10 times faster they will artificially calculate the statistics that way that the price has lowered by factor 10 to "compensate" for increased fuel and/or electricity prices

Well, for sure we will not see the 5000 USD within the next weeks, but hopefully i am wrong ;-))


IMO it is a wrong assumption to say that it is not possible. The bitcoin price should NEVER be interpreted as "All bitcoins have the actual market value". A price of 5000 USD can in theory show up on an exchange when nobody buys nor sells bitcoins at all, except for me selling to myself a very low amount 0.001 Bitcoin for 5 USD.

So in other words, the price alone does not tell you anything abuot the "magnitude" or "importance" of the currency, as usually the biggest amount is usually simply not traded.

If i was you, I would not demand (or rely on) any confirmation from the admin on how many coins he owes you. What do you do when he simply does not answer or tells you that he owes you just 1 BTC or whatever other (wrong) amont?

You should collect "prove" by your bank transactions when purchasing these "frozen" coins from bitmarket.eu and maybe also use the receiving person you sent the money as witness. (This was at least the info i received as recommendation). You can of course also try to take whatever blockchain transactions as "prove", but you should NOT rely on the info you might receive from the admin (if you get any). At least, if i was him I would not give out any information to someone who publicly announces that he wants to sue me ;-)


And for the "meeting", there is no contract that would be signed. We want to meet to discuss the way out of the mess, based on the information we have from the questionnaire(s). It is mainly to discuss the ideas we have right now, discuss how these could be put into place plus get clarification on roles and responsibilities. No need to bring buddies or lawyers ;-))) We want to discuss primarily how the new site would look like and which functions could be implemented. How debts could be paid is also on the agenda, but for investors not the main issue.