The cryptocurrency market always goes up and down. But sometimes there is a situation in the market that the price is very decreasing more than the price at which we bought the token. And just then we eat los. And if you want to avoid this loss, you must use stop loss. The reason to use a stop loss is if you are worried about the token you bought and think it will go down further.One advantage of using a stop loss is that using it will reduce the loss rate, but by changing the stop loss repeatedly, you can increase the profit rate.
Precisely, every trade needs a bit of “wiggle” room. Tight stop loss means you will drain your account faster and too loose stop loss will make it impossible to succeed. There is no one size fits all. I usually try: - S/R line - My favorite MA - ATR indicator |
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For me to operate without having many losses, what must be followed is the basics, put the Stop Loss first, because we have to protect our money, if it is done that way I think we are telling us, that if the price comes in We are against, it does not matter, that the stop loss is jumped and we assume the loss, otherwise if the price goes up, what we have to do is keep moving the stop loss and keep winning, I think that is a very simple way to win, but you have to have a lot of experience not to lose.
And also it is better to ask yourself “Is the profit worth the risk? What’s my RRR?” The majority of traders tend to focus mainly on timing the trade's entry perfectly, while proper risk management and position sizing is an afterthought. |
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Where to put a stop loss?
In my opinion, Setting a Stop Loss is one of the important elements moreover done by daily traders. This is done to avoid more losses and move to another trading pair again to gain more profits. So, the recent profits can cover the loss that we have in advance. But, if this is for long-term investment, especially for top coins like Bitcoin, we may not need to set a stop loss because we are not in immediate trades. I agree with this one, definitely you have a point there. Overall long-term investing or any frequency of trading regardless of having stop loss, risk management matters I think. How you diversify your investment, what chart you are monitoring, fundamentals and technical analysis, your size, capital and money management are all related to risk management. How to calculate the correct position size:
Will this really work on every trading strategy? When I see the trading leverage use, well, this may be interesting more, because we can gain much more profits on it, but also high risks to face. That is why more calculations, strategies, and smart decisions to take the position will be very crucial to combine. “When you combine ignorance and leverage, you get some pretty interesting results.” - Warren Buffett To avoid the "interesting" result when trading with leverage; -Always use stop loss -Use take profit, don't be greedy -Spot and stop overtrading -Start Small and grow This is how I try to minimize my high risk and capitalize on gains when using leverage. |
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Considering the elements of fear and greed, knowing when to exit the trade when the candle is green one of the toughest decisions for traders to make. When greed is waiting on your shoulders. They lost profits and even end up with losses for being too greedy for more profits and deviating from their trading plan. Personally, automating most of my trading process and using multiple Take Profit with Stop Loss with effective risk management options helps me stick to my trading plan and achieve consistency and discipline. One of the best parts of using automation is that it doesn't cost me a dime instead it helps me achieve long-term profitability. |
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Hello everybody, here is an article about position sizing, and here is its quick summary( Full Article on cleo.finance blog): Position sizing is determining the correct size of the position based on the amount of money you risk on the particular trade.Before you can do that, you need to figure out what is the maximum acceptable risk of the trade. That risk is usually expressed as a % of your balance, that you are willing to lose. To make sure you don’t lose more than this amount traders set a Stop Loss order which are the real maximum exposure of your position. If you don’t use a stop loss, you are exposing your entire portfolio! Where to put a stop loss?- That’s where Technical Analysis can be handy. Majority of retail traders would look at the chart to find out – usually behind some support/resistance level or based on some volatility indicator, such as ATR
Rule of thumb:Risk between 1-3% of your portfolio balance on each position. This way any single individual loss won’t wipe your account and break your spirit. And more importantly, even a string of losses will leave you with enough ammunition to recoup the losses. Have a clear approach to risk:- Set a risk limit for each trade, asset in general, day, week and month (you won’t risk more than X account)
- Determine the right position size and start small
- Increase the position size of trades slowly if your account grows
- Lower size or switch back to paper trading if your account doesn’t
Two types of position sizing methods: Fixed and flexible Fixed position size- Using the same position size for every trade
- Good for finding out if your strategy has an edge
- Make sure you come back and reevaluate position size periodically.
Flexible position size- Using a percentage of current balance
- Cluster of wins makes every following win larger
- Cluster of losses makes every following loss smaller
How to calculate the correct position size:
You need to know - Trading account size
- Acceptable risk (in % per each trade)
- Invalidation point (in form of a distance from the open price)
The formula:Position size = Trading account size x Acceptable risk / Invalidation Example: - Trading account size = $10,000
- Acceptable risk = 1%
- Invalidation point = 4% drop in market price
Position size = $10,000 * 0,01 / 0,04 = $2,500This way you will always risk losing $100 no matter where your Stop Loss goes! If Stop Loss must be wider, say 8%, the calculation is: Position size = $10,000 * 0,01 / 0,08 = $1,250 Doubling the distance to our stop loss has us reducing our position size by half to maintain the same possible loss.How to set position size in the trading platform
- Pick a leverage
- Add a Stop Loss
- Input the market price or the distance in % of the stop loss
- Whichever value you enter first, that becomes the constant – element that won’t change when you edit other variables. You can select different constant by clicking the “target” icon
- Input the Position Size or Margin size while watching the PnL of the Stop Loss
- Increase or decrease the size of the position, until the PnL of the Stop Loss is at the level you want it to be
 This way you can control exactly what your exposure is, while understanding all the variables involved. You can even add multiple Stop Loss orders, which can help you limit the exposure in lower conviction plays, such as new set-ups. The next article will be about Stop Losses. |
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What platform is that ? It's not familiar tho, and tbh i never seen such setup in trading views and you can setup a settings and etc. For me it seems like a bot that will automatically buy and sell depends on the settings or programs.  It is a trading platform called cleo.finance. It has manual trade and smart trade. The one I am using is the one in the picture is smart trading. So basically you can create pretty much any conditions you want for your entry and exit conditions via typing and change the parameters of the conditions like time frame, period, inherited asset, etc. You define your position size, leverage, and set your stop losses, and take profits and you can also manage your trading set up on the chart. Once you place, it enters and exits automatically when your conditions are fulfilled. Anyways, better to learn more about what indicators your using because sometimes they are not good in a current trends of the market even you are convinced that in different time frames they're showing a good sign.
And IMO as well much better to provide bots than using that kind of technique because surely you can make profits than that way, wherein, you are the one who customized the settings that despite you don't even know if it will work good.
Yea I agree with you. Currently, I am backtesting and trying different combinations, checking the results on which indicator combination will be better for filtering out the ranging market for which pairs. |
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Market analysis methods are very diverse, maybe you even understand much better than I in setting trading indicators. So in my opinion when you find the right method, it may not necessarily be effective for other people. Because this is based on the level of accuracy of time, and in terms of understanding that is very diverse. All have their own appropriate method based on the needs of the traders themselves. To be honest I'm not a spot trader. For now, most of what I do is buy and hold. Not paying too much attention to market movements every time.
I get your point and yes you are right about it. I forgot to mention I have the charts right below of that page in the picture and It is actually automated. So I enter the conditions, stop losses and take profits, and position size and it opens and closes automatically when the market conditions are fulfilled. |
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Hello guys, I have been working on this set up lately. This setup profits in uptrending market conditions, and It seems like it fails to filter out the ranging markets. I am thinking of adding ADX indicator to filter out the ranging markets may be? I briefly checked it in TradingView and it seems to have merit. Examples of results on several assets and several timeframes. I looked at the ETHUSDT and BTCUSDT on 1 hour, 4 hour, and 1-day timeframes. It opens a long position when the price is above EMA(21), Parabolic SAR, and when the MACD line is above the Signal line. Parabolic SAR and MACD indicators both have default settings. I would like to improve this further. Here is the settings:  |
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To get the best out of any analysis confluence between multiple tools is best because it gives a clear picture of where to possibly set take profit and set a stop loss in case of reversals. For me i Iove support and resistance and so I combine trend lines, moving average, time frame and indicative candle stick making sure my chart is as neat as possible and any signal outside this i avoid it. This keeps my trading discipline in check.
What are your own it can be beneficial to someone else.
I think a tight stop loss with not much wiggle room can be closed by normal market movements and you may miss a trade that could have potentially been profitable. A wide stop loss placed too far could require entering a position so small, that the potential profit might be too insignificant. I usually use indicator like macd, psar and ema together for opening my position and closing my positions as well in order to filter out the ranging market I use ADX indicator. So in chart I have these indicators. I always set multiple stop loss and take profits and see where they are and how their position fit the current market thanks to chart trader. I have an understanding of RRR for each SL or TP level before opening the position. Another thing is I always replay my position history on the chart in real-time, I can see what I need to improve and check if any of my conditions are rushing or lagging behind. It gives me tremendous insight on how to go with the way I trade and constantly improve myself. I implement these on a trading platform called cleo.finance btw. |
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I have seen many questions about how they are going to be a professional trader, so I just wanna share my experience, I am not a professional trader but I just wanna share some of my experiences and way of thinking in trading. 1. Trade at your own risk - You should know that investing, gambling and trading is somehow the same because you are not sure that you could win the prize, so expect that you could win and you could lose your money. 2. Limit your budget - always limit your budget for trading, you should use only those extra money you have, instead of spending it on some other things, you may use it for trading, at least you made something to make it profitable. 3. Do not be greedy - There are many people who suffered from being greedy, they tend to spend all their money because of thinking that they could still make more money but instead of earning they have lost their money. ALWAYS KNOW WHEN TO STOP AND CONTINUE TO TRADE. 4. Learn from your own mistake - Instead of being sad because of losing try to think on some other thing why you get lost and think some good strategies to overcome those mistakes. Some good tips from google: 5. Check the ticker symbol - Ticker symbols are not universal and may vary from exchange to exchange in rare cases. Those cases, though, can come back to bite you. For example, Bitcoin Cash trades on some exchanges as BCH, while it trades on others as BCC. BCC is also the ticker symbol for BitConnect, which was recently outed as a Ponzi Scheme. If you bought BCC under the impression was Bitcoin Cash, you would’ve lost a lot of money. 6. Pay attention to the bitcoin - Most altcoins (every cryptocurrency except Bitcoin) are pegged more closely to Bitcoin than Asian currencies were to the USD during the Asian Financial Crisis. If Bitcoin price pump drastically, altcoins price can go down as people try to exit altcoins to ride the BTC profits; inversely, if Bitcoin prices dump drastically, altcoin prices can go down, too, as people exit altcoins to exchange back into fiat. The best times for altcoin growth appear when Bitcoin shows organic growth or decline or remains stagnant in price. Trading is really profitable ways of earning money and having skills and knowledge about it would be a great advantage for you. - Question everything you believe about trading, the markets, and yourself constantly.
- Especially if you’re starting out and just forming your trading approach. Always keep an open mind.
- Avoid over-trading at all costs. The market doesn’t owe you anything!
- When you get stopped out, accept the loss, and move on
- Hitting Stop Loss is a good thing. You put it in place to save yourself further pain. Hitting SL means your system works as it's supposed to.
- Recognize when emotions start to influence your decision-making process and stop trading for the day.
- Constantly monitor your strategy. What did you do good? What went wrong? What can you improve tomorrow?
- Schedule your trading routine. Set aside time for market research and past results review
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you can check out cleo.finance crypto trading platform. One of the aims of the platform is to remove the complexity from trading. It has trading tools and it is very easy to navigate. You can place your trades with a Binance account connection. You can check it out by just signing up also and it is free. It allows you to create your entry and exit conditions by just typing, and defining your size in any way you want, set and manage multiple stop loss and take profit and modify it on the chart so all in one place and requires one click and you are able to manage everything in one place, replaying your position history on the chart in real-time so that you can see what is missing on your trading strategy and how to improve them, which conditions are fulfilled and how they are fulfilled etc. |
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This is not a problem of exchanges as platforms, it is a problem of traders that they cannot control their risks and they do not have a trading strategy that would solve some critical moments that develop in the market, whether it is a solid security of their position or a minimum leverage, which will help to survive even a major fall. The fact that a trader will install your platform and start trading futures with it does not mean at all that he will now have less problems with money management and risk. The problems will remain and will recur until he identifies these vulnerabilities in his trading strategy and eliminates them.
It's like improving the quality of your driving skills in a car with the help of some applications and specialized programs. Until a person himself develops the necessary reactions and a sense of his own car, nothing will help.
"The problems will remain and will recur until he identifies these vulnerabilities in his trading strategy and eliminates them" I never said that all traders using our trading platform will magically be profitable and disciplined. But they do have more tools in their arsenal to identify their weaknesses and easily apply some measures. If the problems remain until you fix them, why wouldn't you want to use every tool available to fix them faster? Cleo doesn't aim to be THE solution, the ultimate financial hack the rich people don't want you to know about  We aim to be a tool that makes trading easier and gets you to the finish line (reliable profitability) faster. "..nothing will help" "Unless you figure out on your own how to trade well you have no chance". How is this attitude useful to the newcomers? There are hundreds of thousands of new retail traders every year and the vast majority blows up their account and never trades again. Seems like they could use any help they can get. Plus - using your car driving analogy - technology is actually helping modern drivers all the time. Parking sensors, cameras, and angle tracking, there are even self-driving cars these days… Technology is making your life easier. Why wouldn't we want to try to innovate the trading space? |
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Thank you very much everybody for such great comments and constructive criticisms! It is really helpful to understand your concerns. Feel free to shoot more - any constructive criticism is more than welcome, we're building it for you so please - Tell us what you want |
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To be honest, I don’t quite understand yet - what is the peculiarity of this particular platform? I have more questions than answers so far.
- The goal is to add value on top of what centralized exchange (Binance for now, we will add other exchanges soon) natively offers. If you don't see added benefit in automatizing your trading process via "if this than that" statements, or advanced risk management options in form of multiple concurring Stop Loss or Take Profit orders, or the ability to replay every position to learn from your mistakes, or any other feature that the platform brings (or will bring in the future), than there is no reason for you to use it.
- But let's not kid ourselves - exchange does not have inherent desire to help you be profitable in any way. The majority of futures traders lose money, precisely because they don't have any risk management tools, that would help them understand what risk they are getting into before they place the trade. And this is just a first kick off - loop trading is in the works, backtesting and paper trading is in the works, social trading where you can get copied or copy others is in the works, trailing stop loss is in the works, stop loss and take profit placed as a multiple of ATR is in the works and much much more. We aim to grow into ultimate trading tool. You just have to start somewhere, no?
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We have been working on building an innovative no-code trading platform cleo.finance and we are seeking feedback from traders. With cleo.finance, traders can trade crypto futures with advanced risk controls, order management, and algorithmic executions. We need it to be tested and gather feedback from traders. There will be remuneration based on traded volume on the platform. I have a few questions. Why does a trader even need an intermediary in the form of your platform that offers futures trading? And what is this strange condition for the mandatory creation of take profit and stop loss? You offer to connect your account from the exchange and trade through your platform, only this complicates the very process of trading with extra obligations. If I want to trade futures, I will do it directly on the exchange without any mandatory orders. What is the purpose of this application? - The goal is to add value on top of what centralized exchange (Binance for now, we will add other exchanges soon) natively offers. If you don't see added benefit in automatizing your trading process via "if this than that" statements, or advanced risk management options in form of multiple concurring Stop Loss or Take Profit orders, or the ability to replay every position to learn from your mistakes, or any other feature that the platform brings (or will bring in the future), than there is no reason for you to use it.
- But let's not kid ourselves - exchange does not have inherent desire to help you be profitable in any way. The majority of futures traders lose money, precisely because they don't have any risk management tools, that would help them understand what risk they are getting into before they place the trade. And this is just a first kick off - loop trading is in the works, backtesting and paper trading is in the works, social trading where you can get copied or copy others is in the works, trailing stop loss is in the works, stop loss and take profit placed as a multiple of ATR is in the works and much much more. We aim to grow into ultimate trading tool. You just have to start somewhere, no?
Mandatory SL and TP- Not desired long term, it is sort of an inefficiency of the current "position" model design. We are removing this condition as we speak, allowing you to add or modify any protection as optional either before the entry or during the open position.
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Exciting ideas that you have there. I'm worried about connecting my account to it and having it have a security key. This is a cloud-based type of platform, right? Am I not installed directly on my PC? What if the cloud-based gets hacked or, worse, has access to accounts or something? That's going to be risky, IMO. The advantage of it being installed on my PC is that I can have restrictions on the IP using my API key. I don't want anybody to access my trading positions with my API.
What are your other strategies there as well?
Thanks a lot for such a good question. I fully understand your concerns. Here is a technical answer from the developer: Installing software on your PC at home and whitelisting the IP, is only as secure as your home network. Those, mind you, are being breached orders of magnitude more often than cloud servers networks. So, the real question is how many and how strong "barriers" are between your API Key/Secret and potential party with bad intentions. In Cleo there is probably nothing we take more seriously than security and that’s why try to keep up with the best industry standards. Without going too much into details, few security barriers we use include: - Main servers manipulating with sensitive data, are exposed only to internal network, and are not visible to outside world at all
- Your api key/secret is not stored in single database, but is stored in 3 different places, each with separate hardware and software security protections
- You would have to breach all 3 to get access to Encrypted version of api key/secret - which doesn't help you at all
- Those sensitive data are encrypted with arguably most modern and secure protocol - 256-bit AES GCM encryption (feel free to google details, or read this specification/analysis document https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/168.pdf )
- Long story short the data from database alone, encrypted with 256-bit AES GCM encryption would take 2.29*10^32 years to decrypt with current technology, which is way longer than age of our universe
- Our cloud hardware is distributed and software up to date with most recent security updates
- We also use more security systems to protect our users' data, but we would like to keep those private
Also its important to know, that we don’t allow keys, that have withdrawals enabled, so there is no incentive for bad actors to even try to get hold of those data. So in the end it would be most likely easier for somebody to hack your PC than get even all encrypted data for your api key/secret from our server, even if you would teleport right next to our physical server |
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All positions traded through Cleo require you to have at least one Take Profit and Stop Loss order.
Give up on this. No one like extra limitations. You don't need to create entry and exit conditions on instant trade. You basically set your position size and leverage, so the position is opened and closed via ST and TP. That is why that requirement exists. |
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Like everyone said you should provide demo account so that people can test for themselves. Don't think people are aggressive or accusing you of anything. To be Frank it looks promising but the thing is in crypto 99% of projects are scams so it is very hard to gain people interest and trust. So i suggest you start with providing Demo account.
I totally understand, demo account is planned to be implemented. For now, users can just sign up and check out the platform with a 10K USDT test account until they are connecting their Binance account. The platform is to provide innovative trading tools to traders and give them an edge. In terms of security, when creating an API key on Binance, users needs to edit permission section of the API KEY. Only reading and enable futures should be enabled when connecting. Users cant enable withdrawals. The platform does not have access to funds. Trades placed through API key and you can view it on your Binance account as well.  |
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Majority are hostile to new services for safety reasons. If you want people to try your platform and get some feedback from it, I suggest working on demo accounts they can create for free.
It is on the roadmap. For now, users can just sign up and check out the platform with a 10K USDT test account until they are connecting their Binance account. |
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We need it to be tested and gather feedback from traders. There will be remuneration based on traded volume on the platform.
Just like above poster said. Don't expect that people will be acting like a testers using their own money. You need to build demo account for that. You know what binance did when they were launching binance futures and wanted users to test it before? They announce a trading competition on demo accounts with big rewards (top volume with balance bigger than starting balance win). That way they had organic testfield with ten thousands of small investors doing as much profitable trades as they can. https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/360032888452 (Wroth to add that that day bnb was worth 15$) "All participants will be allocated 100,000 USDT in simulated funds** on each of Futures A and Futures B by signing up for both platforms. During the competition period, participants will be ranked in terms of the total USDT trading volume transacted (including both Buys and Sells) on each of their Binance Futures accounts within the simulated trading pairs. To be eligible, participants will also be required to maintain at least the originally allocated 100,000 USDT in simulated funds in each of their futures accounts by the end of the competition period. " All positions traded through Cleo require you to have at least one Take Profit and Stop Loss order.
Give up on this. No one like extra limitations. The platform is tested out and it is fully working. Otherwise, as you said it has no use to ask to people test the platform with their own money. The purpose is there will be more features and additions upcoming. The goal is to know what traders want and what bothers them on the platform, what part of the platform needs to be clear, etc. |
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