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So total supply of FLUX Tokens is unlimited and it has no starting supply also. So how do you planning to prevent a token from depreciating without a fixed supply? Is there will be token burnings?
As of this post about 66% of FLUX has been burned. More than 438k FLUX have been burned and that's only counting for locked-in DAM addresses. In total 504k FLUX have been burned. Anyone can burn FLUX. Get it from UniSwap then burn it. Remember this? Got an ETH address you'd be willing to demonstrate ownership of Nah. I'm not the type. Sorry. I'm shy. Besides, I don't personally have much, (or not as much as some would believe, I like pretending) just token amounts for playing with the dashboard. ... because you're nice (you are and I like you and appreciate you for that).
Thank you. I'm sorry I can't answer the other concerns though. Feel free to stay. I'm not the best at understanding some of these things. How do you account for the 70% price decline in the last ~2 days, then?
It's been a week and a couple of days. Bitcoin was once $20k, and fell to $3k. (Even older still, it was once $1000 and fell to $200, and before that it was once $50 and fell to $2.) I suggest you give this whole thing some time to sort itself out, perhaps not 11 years or anything like that, we all know things move a little quicker these days. But a couple of weeks is kinda pushing it. It did start at somewhere below $0.01 before it went up to $0.20. And FLUX actually started at zero. I learned a few things: PITNOG = Patience is the name of the game.. It's time in the market, not timing the market. Finally, the devs do not have a premine, either of the old coin, or the new token. We all started out the same. It's been 6 months. Ready to admit you got bamboozled into being a bag holder again? So many opportunities to take profit. I even warned you. Sorry buddy. Better luck next time. |
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it has own chain or on eth chain
It's an Ethereum token And what unique here? Why is this "Money 2.0"? We have enough projects where 2 types of tokens and people are getting as dividends. But honestly I don't see usecase of your token.
Nothing unique. I pointed this out a while ago. Tried to warn the suckers. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5246889.msg54763535#msg54763535 |
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Is it stabilizing in the direction you anticipated?
The FLUX/ETH pool has more liquidity now than before, currently around 21k FLUX. There are also liquidity pools in sushi, burger and balancer pools. More than 31% of all minted FLUX are burned. DAM locked in has also remained stable close to 70%. Considering the DeFi hype for all other coins and tokens have gone, I think it's doing quite well and it's still above $1 USD. I guess a 95% loss (~$16 -> ~$1) is “doing quite well” for a DeFi project given all the rug pulling going on. I still haven’t seen a use case other than ... burn this for more of that, which produces this (a circular and deflationary use case). So far time and history are validating my arguments. Price movement for DAM and FLUX are both strongly down since I initially brought concerns to you in a more private forum. Are you ready to have HODL write that two page essay detailing how I was right and he was wrong? I’ll come by and dunk on you every few months until he does, or this project explodes into an unimaginable success... at which point I’ll admit I was wrong. |
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I bet "equilibrium" is well-below $1.00 in the next 30 days. Currently FLUX = $2.32. It was as high as $5 a few days ago. Still need time to stabilize. Is it stabilizing in the direction you anticipated? |
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How'd you get CMC to exclude your data from before July 20?
You must be looking at a 30 day view or something. I can see data as early as July 4, but that's not accurate as the token was still in failsafe mode. You're right, I was looking at FLUX |
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How'd you get CMC to exclude your data from before July 20? |
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I bet "equilibrium" is well-below $1.00 in the next 30 days. Currently FLUX = $2.32. It was as high as $5 a few days ago. Still need time to stabilize. You got me! Only a 70% decline vs an 85%. Sorry I was so wrong. You win the bag holder prize!!! |
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Not sure if that is 2 pages, but okay.
Currently, the circulating supply of FLUX is 33,584. The FLUX that has been burned so far, is almost double that at 61,545 or roughly 64% of minted FLUX is burned.
And even considering the astounding 64% burn rate, the price has fallen over 90% since my initial posts. That’s because there’s no reason to buy flux other than to burn flux to get more flux which is the entire point of my major criticism. There is no other use cases, therefore there is no inherent demand.
I don't know what else to add, but whoever that guy is with 1 million DAM is not going to be able to get a 10x burn bonus; he simply can not buy enough FLUX to get the maximum bonus. We really have to wait maybe another month to see some interesting numbers.
I think that, one month from now, the interesting numbers that you see will be lower than where they are now. What will probably be interesting to you then is that you were warned, repeatedly, had about a month to sit on the information, did nothing, then were warned again, had another month, and still didn’t do anything. Maybe the interesting thing to come from that will be a lesson in market timing, personal biases, and capital preservation. |
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Here’s my essay When extra tokens are burned, this usually has a positive effect on the project and there is no oversupply of tokens, which can depreciate if there are too many of them. This approach is always appreciated by projects and investors.
The word "invest" implies an expected return. In the context of DAM, the "investment" is in a DAM token which "returns" FLUX tokens. Sounds cool. However, the only purpose of FLUX tokens is to be burned. So the real measurement of return will be return on capital (in the form of ETH, likely, or maybe USD). Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say you've got 1,000,000 DAM and are earning .01 FLUX every 15 seconds. Then you have all the multipliers except the 10x burn so now you're at .03 FLUX every 15 seconds. But you're soooo close to that 10x multiplier, so you buy some FLUX to burn it. Great - what's your reward? You get back MORE flux than you burned. You bought the FLUX to burn with ETH. For ease of explanation, let's say you paid .05 ETH for 1 FLUX to put you over the 9x burned / wallet balance ratio. Burning this 1 flux nets you an extra .27 FLUX every 15 seconds, so soon you've got 5 extra flux to sell to recover your .05 ETH. But you're profit seeking, and probably want to at least double your returns. This is Crypto, after all, and you're interested in a 200% return for about 10 minutes of work. So you sell your 5 FLUX at .03 ETH each for a total of .15 ETH, recovering the initial buy in plus a tidy 200% gain. The guy who bought one your 1 FLUX at .03 each for .03 ETH similarly has 1,000,000 DAM and are minting .03 every 15 seconds. Soon he's got 5 FLUX to sell to recover his .03 ETH. He's also profit motivated, but not unreasonable, and similarly wants a 200% return for a few minutes of work. So he prices his 5 FLUX at .018 ETH/each and they sell. He makes a 200% return and the cycle continues. This is the inherent deflationary mechanism in the burn to print model. No rational investor, who is seeking return on capital, is going to buy FLUX to burn it expecting a loss. The only people burning FLUX are doing so because they expect a return. The return won't be in FLUX, but in the base currency (ETH) in this case. |
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You were doing something else that got you banned, and I believe you were given the opportunity to rectify it by submitting an essay or explanation. You did not take up that offer.
I took the offer up. Here. I explained, in simple terms, how the economic model of FLUX was deflationary. The market validated my argument. I'm still banned. It's apparent to me that the "decentralized" team managing the Datamine Discord isn't interested in fair dealing. Speaking of that. You never answered my question from three weeks ago. Do you have moderator power within the Datamine Discord? |
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Lmao Potato. Let me chime in next time DAM pumps in price, and I'll use the price to prove my point like you are. Smh... resorting to price movements to validate your own misguided opinion. Tendies must be one of the best tokens in the world with that logic.
I’ll be waiting. The real question is, will it pump higher than the current price AND sustain? |
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Don't forget that FLUX started from zero, and DAM started below 0.01 in USD or equivalent. Oh, I'm sure you know about it having ran 2 masternodes on the old chain.
FLUX is down 99.7 from ATH ( https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/flux) and looks to have started at about $50.00 DAM started at 0 because 100% of it was created in a token generation event. I know you’re in this deep and - reasonably - are biased toward the project. Just like I was biased to the old chain because I was in it deep. Take 3 steps back re-evaluate the project with fresh eyes. Truly ask yourself what market utility it provides. Dig deep on the fundamental problems they’re trying to solve. “create a dynamic market equilibrium using realtime on-chain supply and demand“ sounds good as words... I guess (??)... but don’t markets create equilibrium, not projects? Isn’t there already “a dynamic market equilibrium using realtime on-chain supply and demand” for BTC trading pairs? ETH trading pairs? USDT/USDC trading pairs? If there’s no real underlying utility solution being delivered by this project it is on a trajectory to 0. I tried to bring that up at the beginning of this month and got banned for it. That should tell you something. Everything I tried to warn you of is coming to pass, yet you’re still entrenched? Evaluate your bias. |
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the price is to DAM high! get it  naw actually it's fucking holding up great thus far, keep it up. flux doing well too (tho i don't touch that one) Your wish has been answered. Down 40% since your post. FLUX is even circling the toilet. You were all warned. LOL you sound like Piston Honda on every other thread I see him on. However, you surely must know that these small cryptos go up and down 40% all the time. Doesn't mean much. DAM:ETH on 7/22 - .009 DAM:ETH on 8/1 - .003 Since 7/22 that's a 67% drop on an ETH basis. Only reason USD is -40% is because ETH moved up. FLUX:ETH on 7/22 - .021 FLUX:ETH on 8/1 - .003 86% decline since 7/22. Ouch. |
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the price is to DAM high! get it naw actually it's fucking holding up great thus far, keep it up. flux doing well too (tho i don't touch that one) Your wish has been answered. Down 40% since your post. FLUX is even circling the toilet. You were all warned. |
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Follow-up/addendum: I reached out to the Open Zeppelin team And they did not identify any specific deficiencies with the Datamine smart contract ( https://forum.openzeppelin.com/t/question-on-smart-contract-inheriting-from-openzeppelin-erc777-implementation/3328/2). This does not mean that there are no deficiencies, however, it means that whatever deficiencies exist (if any two) are not widely in publicly disclosed. Despite my profound skepticism for this project, this news is good for them. Now they just need to solve the inflationary mechanism that is built into the project. Kudos team - your code isn’t overtly fucked. |
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ok, guys ...newbie question here. I see the price of flux is around 5 dollars....in my dashboard says that I need 40 of them to take the 10x bonus..but a few days ago was 5.An explanation to as what causes that?
so. if i just pay 200 dollars and buy and burn the flux...is it gonna be permanent?? like always having the 10 x bonus?
Cheers
You have to burn 9x / your wallet balance proportionate to global burn rate / global supply. Basically you’ve got to burn 9x the average weighted burn rate... and no, it’s not permanent. You’ve got to stay above the 9x/weighted average to get the 10x return. |
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Yeah I guess since he was pretty hostile and troll-esque in the Discord server (which led to him getting banned) I had a pretty short fuse with him on here. My wife says I've been getting less patient over the years, and perhaps I should be a little more patient, and a little more tactful in my approach; doubly so on a public forum like Bitcointalk. Apologies Potato, at the end of the day we can often forget on the other side of the computer is another human being. I wish you all the best. (Just some honesty and less fud spreading would be appreciated haha)
I appreciate the sentiment and its why I stay above name-calling and attacks on individuals. Can you please cite where I was "hostile" and "troll-esque"? I was there for 20 minutes. I got banned almost immediately because I pointed out that the core mechanism of DAM (produce flux) and FLUX (produce more FLUX) is deflationary. My quote in the Discord conversation with you was "Burning flux to get more flux is a price deflationary mechanism - I can't see people with huge stacks of locked DAM buying FLUX just to burn it to lose money. Without another use-case for FLUX the concept doesn't work. The primary use case for FLUX should NOT be burning it to multiply your FLUX rewards, that should be a secondary use case."|
So this exploit, actually can't be exploited because nothing in the DAM-FLUX ecosystem utilizes the "approve" function. See for yourself, go trade a regular ol' ERC20 on uniswap, and you'll notice you must approve it. Trading FLUX and DAM do not require this, as per ERC777. So this is currently unexploitable. Now Hodl has mentioned that later today he'll be replying in a long form to address this concern.
Again remember who brought these allegations forward; a toxic member of the crypto community who has a history of scams, evidence fabrication and has had his accounts banned several times (why he's changed his aliases so often). A great twitter to see more on Librehash, is ProofOfFraud on twitter, a twitter account created to expose Librehash.
A broken clock can be right twice a day. Would Hodl be willing to ask OpenZeppelin in their public support forum ( https://forum.openzeppelin.com/c/support/contracts/18) for feedback on his implementation? They wrote it. Now this is flat out dishonest, and misleading. Abra's entire platform was it's interaction with traditional securities markets. You could "purchase" stock, ETFs and the like with crypto on Abra. That's what's gotten them into hot water with the SEC. To insinuate that their platform is anything the Datamine Network is absurd.
CTFC went after Abra because they "accepted orders for and entered into thousands of digital asset and foreign currency-based contracts via a mobile phone application. These contracts, which constituted swaps under the CEA, enabled customers to enter into financial transactions, with the respondents acting as the counterparty, to gain exposure to price movements of over seventy-five digital assets. By entering into these contracts via their app, respondents violated Section 2(e) of the CEA, which makes it unlawful for any person, other than an eligible contract participant, to enter into a swap unless the swap is entered into on, or subject to the rules of, a board of trade designated as a contract market. Additionally, in soliciting and accepting orders for these contracts, the respondents illegally operated as an unregistered futures commission merchant. "( https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8201-20) I understand your point is that Abra created synthetic derivatives and then allowed price exposure to them via an app and that DAM/FLUX are different and I will agree with you on that. However, the CFTC entering the fray on on-chain swaps doesn't bode well for a project that touts itself as "Money 2.0". You're clearly not identical - I wouldn't suggest you are (that would be dishonest); my concern was more directly related to the clearly-increasing regulatory oversight occurring within DeFi. Jake Chervinsky summarizes this well on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jchervinsky/status/1282750679312891910?s=20 To that extent, is Datamine even a registered company? Anyway - as with all things in crypto buyer (and seller!) beware. Hopefully your "Money 2.0" doesn't draw the ire of the US Secret Service, because it is increasingly clear that the United States only really cares that you're dealing with its citizens - not where you're operating out of. https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/71261/coinbase-is-selling-blockchain-analytics-software-to-the-us-secret-service |
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Well.. its their game, they read the rules, they agreed to play. Let them play and enjoy the ride.
I think anyone who chooses to play a game should know the rules. One of the most common responses through this thread was basically "I'm not smart enough to understand that". So I think an exploration of the rules and a more-through breakdown of them is fair. One of the biggest fundamental rules of any coin with a mint function is the initial liquidity crunch price spike. DAM attempts to elongate this crunch by incentivising locking for FLUX, and burning FLUX to get more FLUX. This may maintain the liquidity crunch and price spike for longer, but you've been in the altcoin game long enough to know where it lands 99.7% of the time. What will be the result of the game? The FLUX supply will inflate, for sure, it will lose value to some point. That's clear, and that's inevitable, as the supply still grows fast. Will it find its final balance at zero..? Maybe it'll do that like 99% of altcoins in the market, but definitely not quite yet.
The result of the game will be that FLUX and DAM are likely to continue bleeding value until they're able to create and successfully market a compelling enough use case (hint: burn FLUX to get more FLUX isn't a use case) that attracts new market entrants to support the price. It might take few months or years, or may never happen, as it highly depends on what the developers will do next with the project.
They could start buy honoring their bounties and patching bugs: https://librehash.org/auditing-the-flux-smart-token-contract-major-vulnerability-found-5-000-bug-bounty-denied-with-team-also-refusing-to-acknowledge-or-patch-part-one/SmartContract vulnerability could be a big deal and is one rule that's very much worth keeping in mind. In any case, one intentional result of this process will be the distribution of the coins, which is essential for any crypto project. If the destribution is wide enough, if enough people are amused by the game, and if the developers drive things forward to a next step (which should give additional value). Based on my analysis, I don't think this project will go anywhere. It's really quite likely that no major exchange will touch them just from a risk perspective. CTFC is going after exactly this type of project: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-153One side note: you participated in the BWK game (owned masternodes AFAIK), but refuse to accept DAM game. Whats the big difference? BWK was aslo a "lock your BWK to get more BWK" game, wasn't it?
Yeah, I played that game and saw how it worked out, so I didn't want to play again. I also wanted to make sure anyone deciding to play this game could have a better understanding of the rules. I'm glad you enjoyed the dialogue |
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The incentive system based on burning extra tokens is a very interesting approach to the issue of extra tokens. Thus, coins should not lose much in price, even taking into account the fact that their number is infinite in essence.
How do you account for the 70% price decline in the last ~2 days, then? How much additional liquidity are you wiling to personally supply to support the current price?
avoids the N+X question
I didn't avoid it, and I addressed it in my response to you. I'll explain again; burning is just another mechanism to increase the minting rate, ie; you get a larger chunk of the global mint rate by increasing your burn. Similiar to adding a new mining rig to the global hashrate of a typical PoW coin. The N+X question is framed in a way that misunderstands the entire premise of Flux. Will the supply of Flux continue to increase? Yes, proportionally to the global burn rate. This WILL be price deflationary, until an equilibrium is reached. But, yes, the N+X understanding would imply that, if demand remains unchanged, the price will continue to deflate. It's almost as if... every cryptocurrency that has more supply being create So we both agree the price is going to head downward until it reaches "equilibrium" or 0, whichever comes first? I bet "equilibrium" is well-below $1.00 in the next 30 days. Also - to anyone considering $DAM vs. Mining hardware, remember you can always sell your GPUs on Craigslist and you don't need to worry about the developer dumping the books to exit stage left on their ugly shitcoin. A 1080ti is a 1080ti regardless of an individual project's market conditions. |
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It should continue to fall until the ROI with DAM/Flux reaches a reasonable point. At 10$, with current DAM prices, was over 200% monthly ROI. Obviously, that will fall until it reaches reasonable levels. Also, thanks for continuing to bump the thread!
Always happy to bump the thread. Doesn't bother me that my responses to this bring things to the top. The more people see how desparately the entire Datamine crew avoids the N+X question, the more people will realize that it's probably not wise to buy in. Heck, your post just reinforced my point. 200% monthly "ROI" (I have no idea how you calculated that figure) is clearly unsustainable. I figure everything will trend toward the Fed rate of ~0%... so I guess your argument is that FLUX is valueless? Reasonable investors usually seek rates at or around the Fed rate. So you and I are on the same page: FLUX is valueless and anyone buying it is a sucker. |
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