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41  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Primer for a P2P Distributed Exchange on: May 24, 2013, 01:17:49 AM
If there is a group of 'issuers' it is slightly better, but how does one join that group and how does the available collateral increase when the crypto-currency price falls?   How does one find an issuer to actually get FIAT paper?  I will go read up on it some more.

Okay, so after re-reading the thread, here is my understanding.  You join by adding your own BTC via the protocol and becoming a backer (which also issues more tokens).  From this post:
Quote
Anyone may become a backer of an existing cvToken by adding BTC at the same proportion or better as the existing collateralisation

The available collateral is meant to generally be higher than you need.  From here:
Quote
This "excess" of collateral would be perfectly normal

But when it isn't, backers have to make up the difference themselves.  From further down in the same post:
Quote
the backer has been forced to make up .06 BTC of the cashout from their own pocket

If no backer is willing to do this, the token "goes bankrupt" and the collateral is given out to the people who held the token.  Still in the same post:
Quote
When the last backer fails, the entire cvToken collapses into bitcoins.  The escrow was left holding 20 BTC, and with 200 cvTokens still outstanding, it could not have met all its obligations.  Therefore it minimises the risk of further loss by dissolving the cvToken colour and giving each cvToken holder .1 BTC per cvToken.  At $7.50, this means they have lost only 6.2% during a market that fell by 25%.  It's not ideal, but it was strictly better than holding bitcoins would have been.

It seems like a pretty stable approach.  Similar to how you described your method, I'm thinking of cvTokens like a house mortgage, where the collateral is generally worth more than the debt, and is typically expected to rise in value over time rather than fall.  Most people will keep paying an interest-free mortgage during a temporary dip in property values, but a total collapse in property values will see many people walking away from their homes as no longer worth it.  The difference with cvTokens is that it detects that collapse quickly and seizes all the affected homes before the crisis gets too bad.  In the end, there probably is no ultimate protection against total collapse of an underlying asset, but cvTokens' approach of swallowing the foul medicine as soon as you realise you're sick is probably as good as you can get when it comes to mitigation strategies.

I also don't think you would need to find an issuer for fiat-cvToken exchanges.  Lots of people would be willing to meet up and do it since it doesn't even involve trading and cvTokens hold closely to the fiat value.  They would collect a small fee (much smaller than bank transfer fees) to make it worth their while.  There would still have be a fiat-BTC market of course, but it would be mostly dominated by deep-pocketed businesses and speculators who can virtually ignore the percentage cost of bank transfer fees and already comply with AML provisions.  I don't see p2p trading as taking over from all the existing exchanges--it just needs to exist so that the option is there whenever centralised exchanges aren't meeting people's needs, and to make BTC-fiat exchange as universally accessible and fault tolerant as Bitcoin itself (i.e. this would allow U.S. exchange liquidity to support a thriving BTC-cvTokenUSD exchange in Iran or Zimbabwe).
42  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Primer for a P2P Distributed Exchange on: May 23, 2013, 07:55:24 PM
CV tokens idea is VERY similar to what I am proposing with one slight variation.   I automatically pay the issuers collateral to the users of the 'colored coins' over time.
Why would anyone become an issuer then?


One downside to CV tokens is that while the issuer is 'backed' they are still a single issuer.
...
The problem with multiple issuers is that each issuer's IOU (even if backed by collateral) has a different value based upon faith in the issuer and the current value of the collateral.  Thus not all $USD issuers are considered equal.   Lastly, there would have to be some 3rd party to decide when the collateral may be claimed.   I eliminate all of these issues.
This isn't my understanding of CV tokens.  I'm pretty sure that each token has multiple issuers, and that the tokens are fungible between all issuers since cashouts are rolled over to other backers if they fail.

Also, croesus specifically said that there is no entity deciding when collateral gets claimed--it's algorithmic based on a running auction.
43  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Primer for a P2P Distributed Exchange on: May 23, 2013, 07:21:16 PM
CV tokens claims to have a solution to the fiat problem by making issuers of coloured coins hold sufficient bitcoins as "reserve currency".  Sort of makes them less of an IOU and more of a digitally enforceable contract for their face value in BTC.  And no need for a trusted party.

Also, with two fully digital currencies, there is no need for an escrow role in p2p trade.  Trades can simply be done as atomic transactions with no need for a third party (or use timelocking for trades between different blockchains).
44  Economy / Services / Re: [3000 mBTC] bounty for teaser artwork/media on: May 19, 2013, 08:47:59 PM
Well, it was a hard call to make  but I've decided that moltenmich is the winner for the outstanding puzzle piece images!  mich, you can either pm me with an address or post it here for the prize to be sent to.

Think I made the wrong call?  Well, don't lose hope because the community vote will be launched shortly--after I get back from San Jose.  Good luck everyone, and thank you for all your entries!
45  Economy / Services / Re: [3000 mBTC] bounty for teaser artwork/media on: May 19, 2013, 06:29:28 AM
I'm working on something epic, but due to my pursuit for perfection I might not be able to submit this work until after Saturday.
I'll just say this: without this thing I'm making, all the banners here could be useless! Wink

Love it!  If it's soon enough, you might still win the community prize Smiley

These entries are awesome, and I love the work you all have put in. Tomorrow around lunch time I'll announce the winner!  I've got some hard deciding to do Sad
46  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [ANN] Top-secret community project on: May 16, 2013, 04:45:12 PM
I'm looking forward to actually finding out what this is and how it works out.

Good luck!

Thanks!
47  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [ANN] Top-secret community project on: May 16, 2013, 04:27:50 PM
So, the contest is well under way.  Has anyone guessed what m-day is all about yet?

do i get any mBTC if i guess it right?

No promises on that.  But fire away and see what happens!
48  Economy / Services / Re: [3 BTC] bounty for teaser artwork/media on: May 15, 2013, 09:45:45 PM
EDIT:

Redid it a bit, now I'm done. Smiley

https://vimeo.com/66253504

Please view with sound.


Very high impact!  But I'm a little concerned people won't realise the ending is a date.  Even some dots in between would help Smiley
49  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [ANN] Top-secret community project on: May 15, 2013, 07:48:23 PM
So, the contest is well under way.  Has anyone guessed what m-day is all about yet?
50  Economy / Services / Re: [3 BTC] bounty for teaser artwork/media on: May 14, 2013, 03:47:02 PM
Good work everybody--keep 'em coming!

And I added a hint....
51  Economy / Services / Re: [3 BTC] bounty for teaser artwork/media on: May 13, 2013, 11:32:33 PM
Any preference on the resolution?

Whatever you want--it's always nice to have hi-res available, but no need to go crazy on it since this is mostly for web.
52  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: [ANN] Going to Bitcoin Conference 2013 San Jose, CA (Rollcall & Hotel Choice) on: May 11, 2013, 05:28:29 AM
i'll be staying at the Marriott, arriving Thursday noon. There's a meetup in the evening, perhaps a few of us can hang out before that at the lobby of the Marriott or Hilton.

Meni!  I'm finally making it to a Bitcoin conference--even if it is two years later.  We'll have to touch base!
53  Economy / Services / Re: [3 BTC] bounty for teaser artwork/media on: May 11, 2013, 05:07:57 AM
Yup, Xqisit is right!  Your theme can be spooky, modern, nostalgic, cartoony, whatever you're into (although probably steer away from anything nsfw).  If M-day was the day when the most incredible thing in the world was being revealed, what do you begin to imagine for that?  Everyone has their own idea of what would draw them in and get them excited, so we want to leverage it all.  Classic, goofy, noir, light-hearted, futuristic, anything goes!  If you get totally stuck, remember that M-day is Bitcoin-related, so you can use Bitcoin imagery and symbols in your work.  Just remember that the key to a good teaser is simplicity--leaving room for imagination to fill the gap.  I will be sprinkling a few more details as the contest progresses, but nothing that will handicap early entries.  After all, the people we'll be advertising M-day to don't know what it is yet, either!

Alright, I may end up posting about 20 different logos then, never give me too much freedom xD!

Too much freedom?!?  What kind of radical cryptotarian anarchist are you??


I am not a radical cryptotarian anarchist.
54  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [ANN] Top-secret community project on: May 11, 2013, 04:44:19 AM
Also, to tease you a bit: what is this, the video game industry? We announcing announcements now?


If it ain't broken, don't fix it Wink

More seriously, though, I just want this thread to be the thread for the project itself, and that thread to be specifically for the contest (which is only one part of the project).  That way people's questions and non-contest interest in M-day don't need to clutter up the thread where the contest submissions are being posted, and I can continue updating this thread even after the contest completes.
55  Bitcoin / Project Development / [ANN] Project m-day on: May 10, 2013, 11:03:10 AM
Edit:  Project m-day has now been officially announced!


m-day is coming.  Are you ready for m-day?

Today I launched the first phase of a mysterious community project centered around June 2nd 2013, a.k.a. m-day.  As with all my projects, Project m-day aims to promote, inform, and grow the Bitcoin community, with a particular emphasis on improving user-friendliness.  You can help me by letting others know about m-day, putting it in your signature, or participating in the effort to create teaser artwork/media.  Even if supporting a community project doesn't interest you, there's 3 bitcoins in prizes up for grabs.

I'll be providing more details as we get closer to June 2nd, but for now all you need to know is that Project m-day is worth paying attention to.  I have some other members of the community who will be helping me out, and if you're interested in joining them feel free to shoot me a pm.  Together we can make m-day a major milestone in the history of Bitcoin!

your friend,
eMansipater


m-day is not for everyone.  Do not join m-day if you have a history of heart disease or elbow warts.  Consult with your doctor before making any commitment to m-day.  Payment of one soul upon participation in m-day may be required.  Complications include sleeplessness, irritability, and Twitter.  No refunds.
56  Economy / Services / [1000 mBTC remaining] bounty for teaser artwork/media on: May 10, 2013, 10:34:24 AM
I am going to be launching a mysterious community project soon, and I need some promotional artwork/media.  It's a non-profit endeavour, but to make it a little more fun I'm putting 3000 mBTC up for grabs.  The project theme is:

"m-day is coming."

(m-day is June 2, 2013)

This is all the information you have, and your job is to create teaser images, trailers, or other forms of media which will get people interested and excited about it.


I can promise you that the project is not in any way objectionable and that this is for a good cause.  No matter what your talent is, just give it a shot and have fun with it.  Images large and small, youtube videos, shirts, 3D prints, cleverly worded tweets, you name it--we can use them all.  It could be dirt simple or a full on Hollywood production--just make me interested in M-day!

The money works as follows:  You can submit as many different things as you want.  I will be giving the entry I select as the best one 2000 mBTC out of my own pocket.  I will also give a prize of 1000 mBTC to a "community winner" as selected by votes on this forum (from accounts created prior to May 10--accounts created after this can enter the contest, they just can't vote).  The same person cannot win both amounts, and community voting will begin only after the first reward is announced.  The community vote will only be held if a sufficient quantity of quality entries are received (but don't worry--I want to hold it).

The submission period begins immediately, and runs for one week, with the winner to be announced during the Bitcoin 2013 conference.  As part of the judging I will be asking people at the conference if they have heard about m-day and if so where and how, so feel free to promote your creations anywhere within the Bitcoin community that you like (Facebook, Twitter, etc.).  Nonetheless only entries which have a submission in this thread will be eligible to win.  Make sure your submission is in by end of day Saturday (May 18) if you want it to be considered.

For those who don't know me I am a long-standing member of the community (I wrote the Introduction to Bitcoin, for example).  I run these little projects from time to time with the aim of growing the Bitcoin userbase and improving user-friendliness of The Bitcoin ExperienceTM.

Small print:  by posting in this thread you grant me a non-exclusive license to use your content.  I recommend the CC-BY license but any similarly permissive license is fine.


Edit:  Project m-day has now been officially announced!

Also, Community voting has begun!  Details here (please read before voting).
57  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Never seen private key trade system/ Virtual Casascius/ self-escrow-coin SEC on: May 03, 2013, 05:27:27 AM
one theoretical question, does thermodynamics allow for their to be a unobservable system within your light cone?

Trivially, if I'm understanding you right.  But perhaps you could clarify what you mean?
58  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Never seen private key trade system/ Virtual Casascius/ self-escrow-coin SEC on: May 03, 2013, 04:44:43 AM
I'm not sure what mathematics you used to prove that there are only two ways to ensure this. Perhaps the other ways just haven't been discovered yet.
emansipater has never bothered with mathematical proofs too much when it is clear his intellect is proof enough ...

If you're interested in the proof it can be accomplished by using the notion of "state".  As always, assumptions and definitions are important so constrain the problem specifically to a discrete system and computable operations; and grant all participating entities access to private computation, private storage, and communication between arbitrary subsets of entities (if you're trying to duplicate mine).

Now at the point in the system where some entity A has acquired exclusive control over a piece of information i (that is, information in A's private storage can be used to compute i and no other entity or set of entities has access to information which can feasibly be used to compute i), the entire system is in some state.

There are precisely three possibilities for the operation used to compute i.  Either the operation can be accomplished by changing only A's state, it can be accomplished by changing only A's state and one other entity's state (call it "B"), or it requires a change in state for A and at least two other entities (A's state must change by the definition of "exclusive control").

In the first scenario, no other entities have observed the change in state, so the system fails (A has obtained i without being detected).

In the second scenario, entity B can refuse to change their state and thereby prevent A from obtaining i, making them a trusted party.

The third scenario is by definition a p2p consensus methodology.

But like I said--seriously--don't take my word for it.  Explore the issue and convince yourself by your own means.  It will be eminently more effective.

Quote from: Qwedcxza1
As somebody else mentioned previously quantum cryptography has incredible ways of dealing with this problem.
With quantum cryptography, either physics is the trusted entity B, or (more commonly) the consensus mechanism itself.  You can get around this, but not with discrete, computable systems (my assumption above which allows for precise notions of "state", "entity", and exactly 3 types of operation).  Similarly, any implementation on the basis of "trusted hardware" is simply using trusted hardware as B, which is why it is called "trusted" in the first place.
59  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: [ANN] Going to Bitcoin Conference 2013 San Jose, CA (Rollcall & Hotel Choice) on: May 02, 2013, 08:06:22 PM
I would definitely be interested.

I was only able to get the deal on one room after all. You're welcome to crash on the floor; I'll be there Fri, Sat, and Sun night.

Works for me!
60  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: [ANN] Going to Bitcoin Conference 2013 San Jose, CA (Rollcall & Hotel Choice) on: May 02, 2013, 03:28:04 AM
I would definitely be interested.
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