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61  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Bitcoin is not a currency and has no backing (yet?) on: September 19, 2011, 12:03:49 PM
From what I know there is no currencies in the world with any "backing".  All are fiat currencies, not much different from Bitcoin.  At least bitcoin has the backing of "electricity and CPU cycles".  The rest of the currencies are just pieces of papers which depend on the confidence of the investors in them.

What do you believe the word "backed" means? As far as I know it means something thats supports it, like a back-up plan. You can back a currency by allowing it to be redeemed for something else, or by forcing other people to see the value you have assigned to it. It makes it nothing more than a promise. The assumption that Bitcoin is backed by CPU Cycles is incorrect. Can I redeem the Bitcoins for CPU cycles to devote to my supercomputer? Are CPU Cycles seen as a sacred thing that we should be forced to value anything that takes CPU cycles to achieve?

If anything, what makes BTC valuable is what you can do with it or what you believe you will be able to do with it in the future.
62  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin: The Quants Dream. on: September 19, 2011, 11:15:25 AM


I would humbly disagree with you here. The public key is made available to the world so amazon cannot deny that the key is is wrong since they will put it in global circulation. The maths and technicalities are complicated, granted, but thats why its equivilant is forensics. But true, anonymity cannot be guaranteed with Bitcoin, especially when you buy stuff in the real world, its just very difficut, not impossible. You can go through the delivery company check their records to see if it had been delivered.

Q: Who is going to make Amazon pay you?
Ans: A court which requires evidence of transactions.

[/quote]

As I said, it's a matter of technical forensics. If you had the signed address and you have the address you sent the BTC, you can check this on the blockchain with tge timestamp, compare to the timestamp on the receipt to have a convincing case. It's not impossible to find the truth on the blockchain.
63  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin: The Quants Dream. on: September 19, 2011, 09:03:19 AM
'in this hypothetical situation when you buy a book of Amazon, Amazon can provide you a receipt with unique bitcoin address and delivery address, signed by its private key. then you will be able to prove that the payment has been sent to that address, but the book has not been delivered (and it doesn't matter who ordered the book, paid for it or was going to receive it)'

Very technically clever but instantly the entire system then fails to be 'anonymous' if Amazon refuse to accept the key is correct. Also just to further bring you into reality - you would have to provide an address for them to send the book to.

You guys are living in an entirely theoretical world. Wake up.

I would humbly disagree with you here. The public key is made available to the world so amazon cannot deny that the key is is wrong since they will put it in global circulation. The maths and technicalities are complicated, granted, but thats why its equivilant is forensics. But true, anonymity cannot be guaranteed with Bitcoin, especially when you buy stuff in the real world, its just very difficut, not impossible. You can go through the delivery company check their records to see if it had been delivered.
64  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: We should care less about offline stores/restaurants accepting bitcoin on: September 17, 2011, 02:22:07 PM
I disagree with the OP's argument that because Bitcoin resides online it should he treated as such. First and foremost, before it is an ONLINE currency it is an ALTERNATIVE currency. As a currency it shouod represent an economy and most of what you can buy, or what people currently buy, is offline. However current electronc payment methods are adopted so we don't have to carry coins and notes with us.

As for using it as a store of value, this is true theoretically, but who determines what the value of a Bitcoin is? The truth is we all do in some huge inknowing collaboration, but rather than a value democraticaoly agreed by people, it is agreed by every single unit of wealth, and who it's master is.

BTC price is on a current trend downward it seems and fluctuates alot, making it hardly the ideal vehicle for an investment. There needs to be a transitional phase first from various worldwide currencies to Bitcoin. Before, they managed to transition from gold to paper money, by pegging the value of tge paper to x amount of gold. But since everybody is the issuer, pegging is far more difficult. Hence the jumpstart will also be difficult. Bitcoin should be used as a payment processor where prices are set in particular local currencies but the BTC taken off is in terms of current market price. I think bit pay already does this, but I wonder if it's done the other way round? Ie. where somebody pays for something in local currency, it gets swapped over to BTC sent to the merchant and converted back to local currency. A bit complicated, true, but surely cheaper than Mastercard VISA fees?
65  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Sent some coins but 0 confirmations after 50 blocks? on: September 17, 2011, 04:12:17 AM
Hi,

I'm no expert, but since you say that you shut your computer down I'm assuming that the transaction hadn't been broadcasted to a node that 'listened' to it. In which case those nodes wouldn't broadcast the tx so it can inhabit a block. I usually wait for at least one confirmation, once its in the chain, job done, basically. There are a mumber of reasons for this, but I hope another member can shed more light on this.

I hope that explains a bit to you.
66  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: UK exchange: Britcoin on: September 16, 2011, 03:38:52 PM
Buy BTC, withdraw then insert into new Intersango account?
67  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: High-resolution images of physical bitcoins on: September 16, 2011, 08:51:14 AM
It's a great attempt by Casascius. As most have said, it works as a novelty item. We also need to understand that most people in the world don't have a very active imagination, the physical bitcoins spark that imagination where the intangible symbolically becomes tangible. This is also a good way to spread the word of Bitcoins to communities with limited connection to the internet. They can still be part of the global colmunity with trading BTC, and the few places that have the net can verify the coins for them.

Casascius admits himself that he did his best and encourages competition in creating far more "trustworthy" forms of BTC.
68  Economy / Collectibles / Re: CASASCIUS PHYSICAL BITCOIN - In Stock Now! (pic) on: September 08, 2011, 02:01:40 PM
Also: one of you buyers are lucky, I sent 0.001 BTC to one of the already used addresses for testing purposes Wink
which address?  it might be me!

Lol, go check your addresses, I'm not telling.

Maybe I should make it more Wink

I ruin about 1 in 10 of the stickers, so they may have gone to nobody.  I asked for the strongest adhesive and the most tamper proof hologram and that's exactly what I got.  At least 1 in 10 times, I ruin the sticker just peeling it off the original backing, exposing the "honeycomb" tamper-evident grid, as the tamper evident pattern is literally hair-trigger sensitive.  There is absolutely NO FREAKING WAY anyone is going to get those stickers off without making the honeycombs visible, and if I have to throw away a sticker, the address is thrown away too.  So, at least 1 in 10 chance you may have sent 0.001 BTC to the bees.

Do I understand this correctly in that 10% of your bitcoins go into the netherworld? Please say Imisunderstood you, lol.
69  Economy / Collectibles / Re: CASASCIUS PHYSICAL BITCOIN - In Stock Now! (pic) on: September 08, 2011, 10:48:30 AM
PGP-signed list of a portion of addresses I pre-generated for this project (all coins made thus far are within this list).

http://pastebin.com/XebW67V4

Isn't this just a resource which assists counterfeiters?
Without this list - counterfeiters would need to re-use addresses from a small pool in order for their coins to pass the basic 'public-address shows value in blockchain' test.

What is the motivation for publicly releasing this list?   Are you likely to do this in future?  (I'm hoping not)

Even if you have no intention of maintaining any sort of dupe-public-key tracking/reporting app - someone else might want to, and having a list of *all* released coins might reduce the usefulness of that.  Being able to verify a key by search once you know it is fine - but I don't think they should be listable.



I agree with you. This is why I suggested a way to verify the address and the values stored in them using an online method, probably over one of these secure connections (SSL is it?)

I am glad that each hologram is unique for each coin.

The two risks in this, as with any currency, is trust in the issuer and trust in its protection against counterfeiting. When security measures increase/change will there be a plan to ensure owners of earlier coins don't lose out?
70  Economy / Collectibles / Re: CASASCIUS PHYSICAL BITCOIN - In Stock Now! (pic) on: September 07, 2011, 03:21:05 PM
1 - How does one verify that it was you who made the coin?
2 - How does one verify that there is, indeed 1 bitcoin loaded in without 'destroying' the coin?
3 - Once the bitcoin is redeemed what happens to the coin? (just seems a terrible waste of preciois metal)
(4) Next just a discussion, alot of people are suggesting QR codes. Would using them make any difference? Apart from making it harder?
I love this idea, though! (5) Will you be making coins of smaller amounts?
Many thanks

1 - I chose a hologram with the name Casascius on it, because that would be prohibitively expensive ($thousands) for someone else to duplicate.  And if they're going to go to the effort, they may as well make their own legitimate coins (clearly there's a demand) rather than perpetrating a fraud that would get quickly found out.

2 - Each coin has the first 8 characters of the bitcoin address on it, which is enough for Block Explorer to find it.  When I load bitcoins on coins, the transactions are fairly distinct - lots of outputs of 1 BTC to lots of addresses wrapped into a single transaction.  So if someone were to vanitygen one (the odds of it happening purely at random are 2.2 trillion to 1) you could find the right transaction.

3 - it becomes a piece of metal, not quite as desirable, but still cool nonetheless.

4 - I could probably put together QR codes, but I favor readable codes for several good reasons, the most significant being that most people don't know how to scan them into a program without retyping them anyway (typical joe will scan with his iphone and type into his computer what he sees on the screen, defeating the purpose).  And second, if the code gets torn or damaged, your eyeball will do a much better job of piecing it back together than a phone that will just say it can't read the code.

5 - Probably no smaller amounts.  Maybe bigger amounts (such as 10 or 50 BTC in larger, more ornate coins).  This is fairly time consuming for me as it is, and I fear that demand could outstrip my ability to supply them.  It's hard to want to delegate it, as I can make sure that all of the codes are legible and correct and match the address on the outside, but somebody else might not take that so seriously.

6 - Others have asked about durability.  I don't know yet - haven't had them that long.  The adhesive is quite strong and they will probably resist water just fine, but what would really ruin them is if they sat in your pocket and got jingled around with your keys.  I would treat them as delicate until proven otherwise.  I am experimenting with spraying on a layer of polyacrylate which adds significant protection to the hologram, particularly at the edges, but it will take me several days to really know for sure how that will end up.  Seriously though, I hope somebody copies my idea and does a better job and makes a wash-proof key-proof bullet-proof coin for less



Thanks for your your prompt reply! Just to continue the discussion further, if I may...

1 - Just to clarify, each of the holograms are exactly the same? If this is the case, I feel this may be a bit of a risk because, agreex, the initial investment in duplicating the pattern will be huge, but if they mass-produce this and put it into 1,000 coins, the criminals would make their money back in no time. My humble suggestion would be to digitally sign each address which could be verified online. That way each hologram is different, although I am not sure if this would incur higher costs.

2 - Forgive me, I am not sure I understand the security feature of "lots of inputs wrapped into one transaction? Could you explain this a little more simply? Surely if I knew the address on the coin I could find out how many bitcoins are assigned to it?


3 - Will you buy spent coins to make new coins? Cheesy

4 - Wholeheartedly agree with you. Readable is better than QR in this case .

5 - I guess without smaller coins the intention is for the coin not to be used in small trades?

Once again thank you for your quick response!
71  Economy / Collectibles / Re: CASASCIUS PHYSICAL BITCOIN - In Stock Now! (pic) on: September 07, 2011, 01:43:25 PM
That doesn't satisfy me. Another address could've been generated intentionally using a vanity address generator or by chance.


Chance alone is very unlikely, but I'm willing to pgp sign a list of all the Bitcoin addresses used in this project.

Casascious, I applaud you for this innovation as I can imagine it being useful for places with limited internet connection. As far as I understand there is a physical coin made of brass and then there is a hologram/sticker on the back of the coin that contains a pattern. On the other side pf the sticker there is a print of the small address which is a bitcoin private key for a bitcoin address loaded with 1 bitcoin. Phew, sorry that was all in one sentance.

Just like to ask a few questions:

1 - How does one verify that it was you who made the coin?

2 - How does one verify that there is, indeed 1 bitcoin loaded in without 'destroying' the coin?

3 - Once the bitcoin is redeemed what happens to the coin? (just seems a terrible waste of preciois metal)

Next just a discussion, alot of people are suggesting QR codes. Would using them make any difference? Apart from making it harder?

I love this idea, though! Will you be making coins of smaller amounts?

Many thanks
72  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Introducing Bitcoin for Android on: August 27, 2011, 06:18:43 PM
So where is the wallet on the phone? I want to be able to back up my wallet myself.
73  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Help me liberate bitcoins from my Android Phone on: August 27, 2011, 03:55:17 PM
So where is the wallet stored on the android phone? I'm using file expert app but can't find it.
74  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: This transaction is over the size limit on: August 20, 2011, 09:48:32 AM
I just want to send 0.01 BTC to an address and I get this error message. I thought the whole point of BitCoin is not to have compulsory fees Cry
75  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: BTC Express -- an iOS thin client for bitcoin on: August 19, 2011, 02:50:29 PM
This gonna be available on Android Market?
76  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Help translating Bitcoin Wallet for Android on: August 18, 2011, 08:32:11 AM
So how does this work? Is the wallet stored online with somebody else or is it stored on the phone?
77  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Exchange AUD for BTC ....Paper trading phase on: August 18, 2011, 08:26:15 AM
The volume is quite low. Perhaps, and this is only a suggestion, start off without charging any fees, once you have a larger customerbase that would be the time to introduce fees.

Britcoin has been completely transparent with this in that it is waiting for accreditation or something before it can charge customers, and now the volume is high.

Of course, the low volume may be due only to the fact that the exchange is incredibly young, of course.
78  Economy / Lending / Re: advice to IBB on: August 17, 2011, 01:10:22 PM
With each scam the process of determining trustworthiness should become better!
79  Economy / Economics / Re: (I think) Bitcoin value needs to stay at at least $10 for the next 2 weeks on: August 17, 2011, 10:47:00 AM
The value of BitCoin cannot be controlled
80  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Australian Bitcoin Exchange - NOW LIVE on: August 16, 2011, 02:35:41 PM
Great to see more exchanges pop up!

I am planning to use this service when I next go to Australia!
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