To you Cryptopia folks,
Just wanted to take a moment and extend my gratitude for listing TEK.  Had you not been kind enough to allow us on your exchange, we would have  been homeless in the wake of the Craptastrophy.

In light of what has happened historically, Mt. Got, Cryptsy, etc. I don't believe it is ever a good idea to leave large amounts parked on any exchange. It is not a matter of trust, but more about limiting exposure.  Large accounts attract unwanted attention, and why set up the exchange for a hack attempt because folks are too lazy to wallet their own cash?

I hope some of you reading this understand that running an exchange is a labor of love until they generate enough volume to make some profit. That can be a long road.

So, before casting dispersions at folks,  I recommend that: 1. appreciate that they are putting lots of their time in trying to build their business, and we have benefitted. 2. Without folks willing to do this, we would not have places to trade our Alts, be kind.

Just my 2 cents, and thanks Cryptopia!

I see your point, it just seems to me that our efforts could be better directed in actually fixing the issues instead of playing some end-around game to stop folks who are taking advantage of a flaw in the system.  We do this elaborate scheme to stop the gamer this time, then have do do the whole thing again each time some idiot decides that he wants to try to manipulate TEK? It sounds exhausting.  Why not just fix it correctly the first time?

The gamer has to wait for the difficulty to drop same as us, once he turns off his 'micro-staler' so to speak. It doesn't drop instantly. If we are paying attention, we stake too.

I say lets hard fork the coin and be done with it.

Or...you could wait for the gamers to 'switch off' as you call it. If you have your TEK in one address, then take advantage of the lower difficulty when they do.

You doing the same thing they are doing is dumb. It would just make the situation worse. All to teach them a lesson. Then we all suffer.

No reason to be selfish.  I hate what is happening as much as the next person, but being part of the problem is not going to make things better in the long run.

Im cool with the difficulty remaining high.  As I already pointed out, runaway inflation would be bad for the coin. I would even be in favor of lowering the interest rate. What I don't like is the idea of someone exploiting the coin. If there are flaws that need to addressed to prevent someone from manipulating things, now would be a good time to so address.

/quote My first point to make is that I am not asking for the system to be modified in such a way to grant everyone 40% interest. I am trying to expose that the system appears to have a flaw in the distribution process. This flaw is being exploited by one user and so that user is controlling the difficulty and causing an unfair distribution of coins. This whether you recognize it or not is a far greater threat to coin value than 40% interest again. I believe it was the intention of the designer of this crypto-coin to increase the difficulty if many people were participating in the system and staking increased. In this case the difficulty should increase to control inflation. That is fine and dandy but what a single user is now doing is that he or she is simulating hundreds of users with having many smaller blocks staking every minute. This is choking the system and causing an unfair distribution of the wealth. This is I am very sure not the intention of the designers of crypto-coins. /quote

If we are sure this is being caused by one or even a few folks who are intentionally trying to manipulate difficulty, Then absolutely, we need to address the issue. Even if it means a hard fork.

But if the issue is being caused by ignorant or lazy folks who are not combining and/or don't know to coin control their stakes, then the issue is quite different. Educate, maybe some preventative measures. Calm and cool.

Do we have information that leads to the conclusion that a single individual or group is maliciously effecting the difficulty? If so, lock and load! lets get the bastard(s)!

We need to be careful what we wish for. If all the existing coin started staking at 40% right now, when volume on the exchanges are low like they are, can you imagine what that would do to supply, and hence the price of TEK?  Lets get the price/volume up, get listed on a larger exchanges, then worry about the micro-staking issue.

As far as recent updates, Thunder posted this not long ago.

I believe we as a community are grateful for any new exposure. That being said, if this new exchange cannot wait and needs to move on, we understand.

reading back at the last few pages, we are looking for exchanges with more volume, C-CEX Bittrex and Polo are in our sights. We mean no disrespect, but getting listed on another low volume exchange is not going to make or break TEK. 

Again, we are not saying we are not interested in being listed, but if the timing is bad for you, we can re-apply later when our DEV team has had an opportunity to check out the exchange.  If Thundertoe is not getting back to you in a timely manner, either he is unavailable or uninterested. I doubt it is the latter, but I cannot speak for him.

Thanks Trimegistus!

You know,  YOU can PM him. He is good about getting back to people.

The wallet don't actually need updated for this. Just set the splitstakethreshold at whatever point you want (there is a max, and I don't recall what it its right now), and until you reach that large milestone, you don't need to worry. It won't split the stake.

If you got a fat wallet, you can either go with multiple blocks, OR you can just manually combine right after you stake. I think a script could be written for that real easy anyway. The API works just fine

EDIT: a strategy for the impatient: Break your stash in to three blocks, approximately ten days apart. Then you don't have to wait so long And it still reduces network traffic.

[/quote]

Is this something done from the console or an added line in some .config file?  I did a 'help' on console, but did not see anything about splitstake.

you know what would be helpful is if the default configuration of the wallet once downloaded already had this value set fairly high...

I can muddle through some of this stuff. I am not much of a command line guy. I can figure things out and get through it, but it does not come naturally for me. Unfortunately there are lots of GUI idiots like me, and if Altcoins and Bitcoin are the wave of the future, we need a bit of accommodation. For us uneducated, a button on the screen that said "set the split stake value" with a useful value already input would be of great value.

Tie dude on the front of your webpage is a bit creepy....Just say'n.

So with the compound staking myth dispelled, it leaves us with some interesting conclusions.
Try this one on for size: The TEKCON wallet is causing the micro-staking issue.  Whew! I said it, now let me explain:

When a pile of coins in your wallet is ready to stake, for a period of time while the staking is occurring, your balance subject to stake is not available while the whole magic happens behind the scenes. Then once everything is kosher, what re-appears in your wallet are 2 address, each equal to ½ of your original amount plus half stake. Cool eh?
Not so much if you were staking say.. .5 TEK.  If you received 40% on your half-a-TEK, you now have two wallet address, both with .35 TEK.  Let this ride for a while, and multiply the problem by thousands of folks with wallets, and hopefully you begin to get the picture.

Now for some good news: A hard fork to fix micro-staking may not be necessary.  We may be able to fix the whole issue with a.) education and b.) a wallet update.

In regards to the wallet update, if it could be modified such that the entire original balance plus the stake were deposited back into the original wallet address, this would help immensely.

I believe the community it's self can fix the issue if it chooses. Since we have shown that breaking your pile into several and staking daily has no financial advantage, if all the 'true believers' would take advantage of coin-control and just keep your coins in fewer piles, we could take care of the bulk of the problems ourselves.  Now that being said, there will always be bozos out there who refuse to be responsible and help the community at large.  That is were the proposed hard-fork would help out. Make it so balances under a particular size, say 5 TEK don't stake at all.

In the short term, I am not at all in favor of the hard fork.  (WHAT?) Again, let me explain.  We just got our tushes kicked by Big Vern at Craptsy. Before the Craptastraphy, we had decent volume on the exchange for our coin. Now, many folk have left, others are waiting to see, so volume isn't where it should be yet.

I believe the Micro-staking issue is actually acting in our favor by preventing coin balances from causing run-away inflation.  You see, I believe originally the thought was that enough folks would buy in to the eco-mint idea, and with enough players world wide, the difficulty would rise naturally and inflation would take care of it's self.  As things are today, we have a smaller group of serious stakers, and lots of folks with small holding. (check out the rich list!) The small number of folks with large numbers of coins, myself included, would benefit from large staking each month.

With the numbers of folks interested in TEK still on the rather small side, It would be quite easy for a few of us top 10%er to crash the coin buy staking multi-millions of the little suckers then dumping them on the exchanges.  Value would plummet.  Far better that the difficulty is high due to micro-staking, and our earnings are curbed until more interest in the coin is generated.

Once the price begins to rise, more people will want the coin, then difficulty will rise further, and percentages will drop even more. That will be the time to address micro-staking, not now.

So as a community we have work cut out for us.  1. Trade the coin! Have fun with it, do some day trading to get volume up on the existing exchanges. This will help with getting noticed by a larger exchange. Hopefully you make a few bucks in the process.  2. Become mouthy in a good way. Chat up TEK on the exchanges, don't lie, but be enthusiastic.  Get the word out. 3. Coin-control your stake piles into fewer, larger piles. This will help with the difficulty. While we don't want difficulty to go away, we don't want it to stifle the coin either. 4. Keep voting on exchanges where we are not listed.  Our ultimate goal should be Bittrex and Polo, but they want to see enthusiastic support, and volume. We have neither right now, and wishing and hoping are not going to get us there. We need active community involvement.

I have more add later, please comment on this, I would love to have some feedback!
Joebwan.

So after some back and forth with Biomech, I stand by the above.  I have tested the compounding theory, and... the Myth is BUSTED!

You may be right. When I have some time, I'll run the numbers and have a look. I think there's an advantage to fairly good size blocks staking daily or close to it, but I'm not certain. It would become clear after about sixty days, I think. I'm so freakin' busy right now that I can't do it, but it's certainly an interesting subject.
[/quote]


You got me doubting myself, so I put together a spreadsheet and ran the numbers both ways. They came out the same.  The fact that stake only happens once per month on any wallet holding prevents daily compounding.

In the situation where you stake every day, each day is treated as a separate entity. each entity only stakes once every 30 days.  So day 2 stuff does not get to compound what happened on day one, etc.

The 'stake every 30 days' thing forces the situation into a simple interest formula. This prevents the compound thing from happening. (It compounds if you let your interest ride from month to month, but the amount is the same if you do it daily or all at once.)  (a*b+a*c+a*d) is the same as  a(b+c+d) where 'a' is the interest rate and 'b,c,d' are amounts you are staking for the respective days.

If you could stake your entire investment each day and earn interest but chose to only accept your interest once per month, we would have the compound difference you believe exists, but the nature of how the coin is designed to pay interest is the limiting factor.

This is incomplete, as it fails to factor compounding. If you have it divided so you're staking every day, it is likely that your end total will be somewhat higher than the 200K, again, depending on difficulty. I've not the time to analyze it right now, you may well be right over all, but leaving that part out makes for an incomplete argument.

And that came out really rude. I don't mean it that way, I just don't know how else to say it
[/quote]

I think I understand the compounding issue, but it compounds both ways.  If you stake daily, the reward will not stake again for 30 days same as if you stake monthly. you just get the reward in smaller pieces.  This would not be true if the balance could begin earning interest instantly, which it cannot, it still must wait the 30 days.

This differs from compound interest, which earns interest on interest as it is earned.  There is no waiting period. So the compound thing works here but not for something that must wait for a month to be eligible.

Not sure I am being clear here, but the math works :-)

Then the difficulty argument factors in, and even if you could compound like interest, you would loose any advantage to difficulty.  It would still work better to stake monthly.

Just wanted to take a minute to dispel some common myths I have been running into in the wonderful world of staking TEK.

The first: Several smaller stakes are better then 1 larger stake.  False.  Here is why:

Lets say you have 500,000 coin, divided up into equal monthly stake. 500,000 divided by 30 is 16,666.6666.

Lets assume you stake at 40% per month. So each day you would receive 16,666.6666 times 40% which is 6666.6666  So you would get 30 of these in a month for a total of: 200,000 coins.  This is in a perfect world, and well.... the world isn't perfect. More on this later.

So in the second case we have our staker with the same 500,000 coin, he has them all in one basket, and stakes once a month. He receives the same 40%.  So 500,000 times 40% is:  Wait for it...200,000 coins. Absolutely no difference. Simple laws of algebra.

Now what does make a difference is that our daily staker is at the mercy of difficulty.  In order to get his daily amount, he has to accept whatever the percentage is for that day.  Overall he (or she) is going to take a beating in lost stake due to difficulty.

Our monthly stake-miester on the other hand can play the waiting game.  When his pile of coin matures, if difficulty is low, the wallet is simply unlocked and Viola! Stake-a-mundo! Then he can coin-control everything into one address again, re-lock the wallet, and forget about things for a month.
But...IF difficulty is high, he simply waits until it drops to an acceptable level.  Since TEK pro-rates the stake after the 30 day mark, and up to 90 days, Monthly-Man has 2 months to play the waiting game with no penalty, and not have to invest his life into watching coin prices.

Our daily staker is contributing more to the difficulty madness due to more frequent staking, and he is arguably losing money to difficulty that he is partially responsible for.

Monthly-Man is not part of the difficulty problem, has more control, makes more money, and has his life back.

So....Why are you still staking daily?  Or worse.... Letting your wallet run amuck?  It costs you money, and all of us money in higher difficulty.  

Be a responsible TEK-head, use that coin-control and stake once a month.  You can thank me later!

Joebwan Kanobe

Have been watching Yo-Bits through the morning, not too impressive for volume.  I have noticed Cryptopia volume die off as YoBits came online.  I think we may have just traded one low volume exchange for another.  We need to stay on Bittrex, Polo.  and for a stop gap...C-cex

TEK climbing, at 335 Sat at YoBits! .12BTC volume already this morning. Go TEK!

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