I don't think they have used our service.  If they are, they are using an intermediary.

I value my PayPal account and given that my name is on our corporate account which did over $700,000 in payouts it really isn't something I am willing to risk.  A scammer however wouldn't care.

I can see why you are widely ignored.  It is now your claim that PayPal can know when a computer is hacked?  What they install their own backdoor rootkits on all user's computers?

A waste of time.

To anyone reading I stand by my point.  Anyone claiming that gifts can't be reversed is either incompetent (which means it is only a matter of time before their account is frozen) or a scammer.  A risk either way.

Of course you can, just claim you didn't make the transaction.  "PayPal I have absolutely no idea who made this gift transaction to xyz.  It certainly wasn't me.  Someone must have hacked my computer".

PayPal reverses transactions not made by the user.  If you claim it wasn't made by you then the transaction will be reversed.  Period.

If someone ACTUALLY DID hacked into your home computer, while you were on vacation, and made a gift from your account to theirs every day for the thousands or tens of thousands available from linked bank accounts and CC do you honestly think PayPal would just say "sorry dude gifts are irreversible".  

Now if you claim "I legitimately made this gift but I wan't to reverse it" then PayPal will deny the claim however someone pulling a scam isn't going to make that mistake.

Keep claiming a falsehood if you want but it undermines your credibility.  Anyone who claims a gift can't be reversed shouldn't be trusted.  Either they are incompetent or they are a scammer.

Nonsense.  Gift can and have been reversed trivially easy.  Claiming otherwise makes you less not more trustworthy.  Either you are horribly uninformed or you are willing to lie to potential customers to secure a deal.  Either way a warning sign.

Nonsense.  Blockchain.info isn't a direct source.  You can pull every trade ever made with timestamps and size from MtGox db using the API.  Or you can use bitcoincharts.

The highest tick was


http://bitcoincharts.com/t/trades.csv?symbol=mtgoxusd&start=1307509200&end=1307595600


There were a total of three trades matched at the all time highest price of 31.9099 on 06/08.

Please show a trade record for that $35.00 trade.

I don't deal in MP but a couple on the forum do.  Be SURE the person you are trading with is reputable or you can kiss that $280 goodbye.  If you have the slightest doubt demand escrow be used.

The combination of "moneypak", "$280","help", and noob status just made $$$ appear in the eyes of every 2bit scammer (yup just like in cartoons).

Not true.  ACH can be used as either a push or pull transfer method.  To provide some context, bitcoin & bankwires are push only, credit cards are pull only.   A customer initiated ACH is where the customer "pushes" funds to the receiver from their bank account.  An example of this would be online billpay where you login to YOUR bank website and push funds to a merchant.   This can't be done anywhere else except from within your online banking account and the bank can log and monitor the transaction.  The bank takes a hit in disputes of these transactions so they are pretty vigilant about fraud procedures.  The bank also has your personal information so they can suspend transactions pending a callback verification.   Things like adding a new payee, or an abnormal payment amount are likely to trigger a callback.  The more common method is merchant initiated transactions where the merchant pulls funds from the customers account.   Now in theory this is only done by the customer, but in theory credit cards are only used by authorized users too.  There is a 60 days window to dispute the later (on personal accounts, business accounts are limited to 24 hours under the theory that businesses have better fraud detection procedures in place).  ACH fraud is harder to pull off then credit cards (which are pathetically easy to use fraudulently) but the best defense is detection.  

Wait ..... they got furniture?  Premium.

We use stacks of old GPU boxes. 

You can have your own opinion, you can have your own attitude but you can't have your own facts.

The quoted segment is 100% false.  Tell you what find a lawyer willing to put that in a legal opinion on the law firms letterhead and I will pay you 200% of the legal cost.  Easy way to double your money.

In the United State the EUR or FKP is absolutely NOT legal tender.  Not ifs, ands or buts.  It is a cornerstone of US contract law and jurisprudence.   If I owe you a debt of 100 Euros you MUST (if the contract is established under US law) accept US dollars as payment.  Period.  It doesn't matter if you prefer Euros (or Gold or Bitcoins) over Dollars.  As a creditor you are obligated to accept US dollars "for all debts public and private".  That is the very definition of legal tender.  An obligation to for a creditor to accept legal tender for debts.  Taxes are debts.  The IRS considers a taxed owed the instant the obligation is created not when a return is filed.  As such the IRS is obligated to accept dollars but not required to accept any other currency which isn't legal tender.  If Euro or Yen were legal tender in the US the IRS would be obligated under the US code (just like any other creditor) to allow taxpayers to pay taxes due in foreign currency.

Since creditors must accept repayment in legal tender in the hypothetical debt above even if you sued me for nonpayment, and proved to the court I am indebted to you for 100 Euros (or ounces of gold, or Ferraris, or even Bitcoins), under no circumstances will a US court issue a judgement for 100 Euros.  US judgements are ALWAYS in legal tender and in the US (and thus US courts) that is US money and US money only (Federal Reserve notes and previously issued notes).  If the court finds that you have proven the claim, they will attempt to award damages in US dollars for the damages you suffered. In this hypothetical example most likely this would be 100 Euros (plus any late fees or other damages as allowed by contract law) * EUR/USD exchange rate.

The fact that you are willing to lie, make up facts, and engage in FUD to prove your dubious point shows you aren't interested in facts, just trying to push an agenda, so I won't see any responses.  It isn't worth the time.

For anyone else who values facts of FUD and falsehoods:

In recent news Panama is considering modifying its statutes to make the EUR (in addition to the USD) legal tender.  If all foreign currencies are legal tender then obviously this debate wouldn't even exist. The reality is that under Panamanian law the USD is currently legal tender and EUR is not.  Panama is considering amending that legislation.  If it passes a debtor could settle a debt using EITHER USD or EUR and Panamanian courts could issue judgements in either currency as both would be legal tender.
http://www.euronews.com/2012/10/15/panama-wants-the-euro-as-legal-tender/

As a historical note, in the US, prior to 1857 gold & silver foreign coins (but not paper notes) were legal tender due to insufficient circulating US money.  The coinage act of 1857 changed that and it has never been repealed by future legislation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coinage_Act_of_1857

Also a nice laymans tutorial on the concept of legal tender and what it isn't.
http://jpkoning.blogspot.com/2013/01/legal-tender-101.html


Of course one could also ask the Treasury Dept

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/currency/pages/legal-tender.aspx

Note no mention of United States money AND all all other foreign money, just United States money.  Notice that credit cards, checks and money orders are not legal tender.  Legal tender has an exact and specific meaning. All currency is not money.  All money is not legal tender.  Legal tender is both money and currency.

Bitcoin isn't even recognized as a currency by current US law (although that probably will change).  Even if Bitcoin is a currency it probably wouldn't be considered money in any locale.  Regardless of if it is a currency and/or money it won't be legal tender unless a nation passes laws explicitly making it legal tender.  

False, once again you have no understanding of what the term "legal tender" means.  In the US the EUR is NOT legal tender so therefore financial institutions are prohibited from being involved in transactions involving EUR, right?  In the US there is only one legal tender, the federal reserve note (and no longer issued US notes).  

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5103

This is why for example every Forex exchange, foreign fund wire service, or remittance service is illegal.  Oh wait... they aren't.

That is because no such restriction on "legal tender" exists for financial institutions.  

Once again currency =/= legal tender.

Bitcoin can be a currency and not be legal tender, much like in the US foreign currencies are still currencies but they are not legal tender.  Likewise the US dollar is still a currency outside of the US but for most parts of the world it is not legal tender (a few foreign countries also have made the US dollar legal tender).

It is harder than you think.  We have been in talks with a half dozen white label providers and they were all interested until ... Bitcoin.  HARD STOP.  EMERGENCY DIVE.  Financial companies are very conservative by nature.  Oh your good friends at Payoneer point blank told me (paraphrased) "they 100% know Bitcoin is a scam to con people out of money and will auto-freeze any account even suspected of participating in the Bitcoin scam".  Of all the contacts we had the absolute most paranoid and uninformed operators of the group.  Most other companies were interested in Bitcoin but their compliance/legal departments wouldn't allow the risk into an unknown/gray area.   There are a couple offshore banks willing but you wouldn't like the fees.  Trust me take whatever you think is utterly ripoff fees then double it and then add fees you never knew existed and then double it again.

So trust me it is harder than you think.  A LOT harder than you think.  It will eventually happen (by BitInstant or someone else), but thinking it is a couple hours of work, sign some papers, flip on the server and BLAMO BTC->VISA is kinda naive.  If you think it is that easy raise the hundred grand or so you need and make a couple million the first year without even trying.   Can I get my card from you next week or the week after?

Greater than $10B market value .... in a decade.  I think many "coinholders" have completely outlandish views of how quickly Bitcoin will grow.  Pretty soon Bitcoin is going to start hitting the law of large numbers.   A company can pretty easily grow from $1M in revenue to $10M but going to $100M takes an entirely different approach (distribution network, branch offices, etc), and going to $1B in sales requires a whole different level of operation, the move to $10B and $100B once again requires momunmental changes in the company operation.  Now I know Bitcoin isn't a company but if it grows "too fast" the limits of the existing system (wallets which can easily hacked, deleted, corrupted, etc) will acts as a brake on future growth.  In time Bitcoin will develop but even Google (a massive growth story) didn't get where it is today in a year or two or even ten.

A couple years ago I said Bitcoin is like many other disruptive technologies (internet, social media, filesharing, voip, cellphones) adoption from earliest innovators to mass users is usually a decade or more.  2011 was really the start of the innovation chain.  Exchanges, mining pools, the first Bitcoin related enterprises.  2012 saw some big VC money come in, and I think 2013 is going to be an interesting year.  Still mainstream adoption is probably a year 2020 or later event.

Yes I understand the block limit issue but the OP seemed to indicate there is a " scalability issue on top of a scalability issue".  A mining node with solid specs and decent connectivity presents no bottleneck at any reasonable transaction speed.  


I will stay out of the hard limit debate simply because I think it is premature but given even with the 1M limit Bitcoin can operate at close to the transaction speed of FedWire, I think this blockchain debate is a tempest in a teacup.  I mean lets be conservative and say that someday Bitcoin can "only" support half a quadrillion dollars in value transacted annually, and the rest go to lesser altchains or off blockchain transactions.  Oh no what a collasal failure this half a quadrillion dollar network is. 

My take, lets get to the point where Bitcoin is transactions trillions upon trillions of dollars worth of transactions on network with hundreds of thousands of full nodes and tens of millions of end users before we worry about the "hard limit".  At this point it is like a shipbuilder telling Columbus "why try and build faster ships nothing can go faster than the hard limit called the speed of light?"

Well it is more accurate to say all transactions are processed independently by all miners (unless a miner chooses to exclude on from the current block).

Still I am not sure what scalability limit you are concerned about.  The current codebase is capable of validating in excess of 4,000 tps on an average CPU.  When you consider that PayPal transaction rate is ~50 tps and the US fedwire system ($663 trillion USD in annual transaction volume) is about 8 tps it kinda puts that into perspective.

https://fastcash4bitcoins.com
Today or anyday

On edit: helps to use correct url.  fastcash4bitcoins

as an alternative if your spelling is as bad as mine your can use the short version: http://FC4B.com  

One can have a discussion without thinking it is going to happen.  It is useful to provide an upper bound on value.  One Bitcoin for example will never be worth $10 trillion USD when measured in 2010 dollars (adjusting for inflation).  One the other hand the bitcoin money supply is currently only worth about 0.006% of global money supply.  So while Bitcoin will probably not replace ANY currency (much less all of them) if it carved out a niche where it was used by say 1% of the population it shows the upside potential is significant.

The value of all CURRENCY is closer to $5T putting an upper limit on value of about $240,000 USD (circa 2010) per BTC.   Bitcoin replaces cash not fractional reserve account balances.  Using global M0 is the apples to apples comparison.



Semi off topic so skip ahead if not interested
When people wonder why the price of everything keeps going up ... the answer is right there.  Money is simply an accounting system.  Money isn't wealth.  Money is used as an intermidiary when trading one product or service for another product or service.  Most people don't think of it this way but your wages are a product/service.  You are trading your work product for money to buy other products and services.  So why has there been so much price inflation?  Simple the amount of money has doubled roughly every decade from 1970 onward.  ~0.25T in 1970, ~0.5T in 1980, ~1.0T in 1990, ~2.0T in 2000, >4T in 2010.  Everything else being equal (no improvement in technology, no increase in supply of goods and services) we would expect the price of goods and service on average to cost about 16 times what they did in 1970s.   There simply are more units of this thing called money floating around fighting for the same goods and services.

Of course prices do generally fall due to technology (more efficient production both increasing the amount of supply and cost of production).  Take gasoline one thing people love to complain "costs too much".  In gold terms the price of gasoline has fallen about 80% since 1919.



Is this because oil companies are "nice"?  No it is because the cost of production over the last century has (adjusted for inflation) actually declined by about 80%.  Sadly thing never ending technological progress masks the true effect of inflation.  If there had been no productivity increases (but a massive increase to the money supply) we would expect the price of gasoline today to still cost roughly 0.14 ounces of gold per gallon or ~$24.00 in 2010 dollars.  However if over a period of time (say a decade) the money supply doubles but productivity increases 50% then prices (in aggregate) will "only" rise 33%.  See (price) inflation is low!    The true effect of monetary debasement is partially hidden by rising productivity.  As a side note all wealth in the world comes from increased productivity.  If your activity increases your personal wealth by means other than productivity gains then it is simply a transfer of wealth from one person to another.

So what does this have to do with the OP point?
While the global money supply can (and probably will) inflate that would only increase the nominal PRICE not the VALUE.  If the money supply doubles over the next hundred years then one would expect the price of BTC to also double but then again so would the price of everything else.  If Bitcoin replaced all currency globally (not a scenario I find likely but good as an upper limit) we would expect the price to be on the order of $240,000 when measured in 2010 dollars.

Well 21M is an asymptotically limit however the current protocol is limited to 8 decimal places (1 satoshi = 1E-8 BTC).  The network actually has no concept of a "Bitcoin" all accounting is done at the satoshi level in pure integers.  So if you send someone 1 BTC the network sees that as a transfer with a value of 10,000,000.

Long story short although 21M won't be hit, the subsidy is right shifted every ~4 years and since all accounting is in integers that results in small amount of truncation.  The subsidy will be exactly zero in roughly 117 years.  Well more correctly at block 6,930,000 the subsidy will be zero and the total coins minted 20999999.97690000 BTC.  

That means without a change in the protocol 0.0231 BTC will remain unminted.  While there is some coins left even if Bitcoin became a single world currency the amount of coins left unminted would be a small value.  The world money supply is on the order of ~5T USD so if Bitcoin replaced all currency globally (unlikely but we can use this as an upper limit) that would put the value of 1 BTC on the order of $240,000 USD.  The unminted coins would be worth ~$5,500.  While that may sound like a lot in the first four years half would be paid to miners as a subsidy (0.5 "current satoshis" per block).  That would be a block reward worth about $0.02 USD.  Of course every four years the subsidy would decline.  ~$0.01 per block in the next four years.  At which point the number of unminted coins would be ~0.005775 BTC worth no more than $1,400 for all future miners combined.

TL/DR version:
The simplest way to explain all this without using an entire paragraph is to just say


  

FYPFY