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7361  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) discussion (was FreiCoin (FRC) for TRC, PPC, LTC or BTC) on: January 09, 2013, 04:58:04 AM
It would be a good idea if the Bitcoin software itself had the base difficulty raised in it so people don't make this mistake in the future.
They can't, because doing so would make all blocks after the block where the new difficulty comes into effect invalid.

That can't be the case because initial difficulty is irrelevant to BTC now, difficulty is just a running value in the chain, 1 was just the difficulty at the start and that value of 1 is still in the code that maaku forked from, anyone else who forks and starts a coin has to correct this manually while it is of no significance to changing it in the exiting BTC github code.  Clients running BTC do not even need to updated in any way.

Initial difficulty is set in the genesis block.  Changing it for the Bitcoin chain would cause an immediate hard fork as all subsequent blocks would be invalid.   
7362  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Who here wants to take a big dump on MtGox? on: January 09, 2013, 03:07:06 AM
In other words(*), suppose I set up a Caymans Trust to hold the 1000-ounces of gold, for the benefit of some undefined broad class of beneficiaries, and the terms of the Trust Instrument require the Trustee to remove one ounce of gold from the vault and deliver it to anyone who shows up on his doorstep on the first Friday of the month and does [X]** (where X="delivers a certain item or performs a certain action, well-defined by the terms of the Trust Instrument," which in our case would involve transferring the colored satoshi via the blockchain to a Bitcoin address controlled by the Trustee) --

What you are saying essentially amounts to, "Let's set up an e-Gold in the Cayman Islands and offer anonymous accounts, and track balances on a block chain".  The only novelty here is the location, not the technology.

e-Gold worked until they day they got shut down.  The fact that it worked before they got shut down, much the same way you describe, doesn't mean that the scheme we're talking about will work - it will only work until the day somebody with the power to shut it down does so.  Meanwhile, the point of using colored coins and a block chain is to make it so nobody can shut it down.

If the government of the Cayman Islands decides it's illegal, then they confiscate the gold, declare the contracts unenforceable and void, or both.  On the other hand, if their government tolerates it forever, then great - but then you must ask why bother with the colored coins.  Just do a normal banking ledger database like e-Gold did, and like PayPal and Liberty Reserve do now.  The colored coins are no longer of any revolutionary value, they become just another style of an overly complicated database that uses way more electricity than it needs to.


This.  Casascius brings up some good points.  I would also add that the eGold management embezzled tens of millions over the course of a decade from the trust.  When the govt seized the assets there was insufficient physical gold to pay the balance of user accounts.  Given that in any reserve system it is improbable that all parties will withdraw at the same times it becomes very easy to engage in this type of fraud.  My gut feeling is if users attempted to withdraw 100% of the funds from Liberty Reserve it would likewise fold.  In BTC4Victory example of legal victory what happens when the trustee and the gold are all gone.  He hopped a seaplane to a non-extradition country with $50M in Gold Bullion.  Or even better he sold the gold locally for Bitcoins and hopped on a plane with this brain wallet.  Smiley

The largest advantage of Bitcoin is that it enables commerce without a trusted third party (note you still must trust your counterparty).  Any schemes and constructs which must rely on a trusted third party don't need Bitcoin.  If you trust PayPal to always do the right thing (protect your rights as seller/buyer, always give you immediate access to your funds, never succumb to political pressure, etc) then you don't need Bitcoin.   Chaining Bitcoin to some to some cludgy implicit trust system backed by a corrupt and failing legal system is like buying a Quantum Computer to acts as a space heater.
7363  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: bASIC not shipping till end of March on: January 09, 2013, 12:03:56 AM
I hope they are relic hunters.

ASIANS Historical Relics, financial services, and microprocessor design Ltd.

7364  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: loadrs2009 selling nuts.com certificates bought with stolen credit cards on: January 08, 2013, 07:45:57 PM
Interesting story! Why would he agree to such a bullet-proof escrow knowing that it would come out eventually? At least 3 btc came out of it. Hoping to score a few more people willing to trust before it comes out?

He figured he would be long gone before the card got reported stolen? 
Maybe he was just unlucky the card got reported quickly.
7365  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How does wallet.dat work? on: January 08, 2013, 06:24:09 PM
Simple version.  The wallet.dat just contains your private key*.  You sign over ownership of coins** sent to your addresses to the new owner.  The transaction records the transfer of ownership.  To prevent someone else (say me) from transferring your coins for you (to my wallet) the network verifies that the transaction is signed by the private key of your address(es).

Every one of your addresses has a corresponding private key.  The magic of ECDSA (and all public/private key encryption) is you can share the public key and keep the private key a secret.  This ensure only you can sign messages with the private key but anyone can verify those messages with the public key.   You don't actually ever send or receive coins, you ANNOUNCE to the world the ownership change.  

Kinda like the digital equivalent of:
Quote
"Attention everyone in the world,  this 1 BTC coin (see as irrevocable and absolute proof of ownership this prior announcement by [previous owner]), let it be known forever that I have transferred ownership of it to D&T, oh and btw here is a digital signature that proves me and only me, Rupy could possibly have made this announcement.  Thank you that is all, please everyone in the world retain a copy of this announcement forever."

later when I spend it:
Quote
"Attention everyone in the world, this 1 BTC coin (see as irrevocable and absolute proof of ownership this prior announcement by Ruby), let it be known forever that I have transferred ownership of it to DannyHamilton (why not), oh and btw here is a digital signature that proves me and only me D&T could possibly have made this announcement. Thank you that is all, please everyone in the world retain a copy of this forever."





* Technically it contains more but that is merely to prevent a need to recreate the wallet on each startup.  The private keys are what can't be replaced.  They are the secret part.  If you delete your wallet.dat and don't have a backup it is the lost private keys that you will be crying about.  There are no coins in your wallet, your coins are "safe" the only problem is without access to the private keys you will never be able to transfer/spend them.  You can forever view them on the blockchain if you like.

** Coins are actually an abstraction.  The network works on the concept of inputs and outputs.  All transactions (except newly minted coins) have as their input the output of a prior transaction.  When your wallet says "you have 20 BTC" what it really means is "I have done an exhaustive search of the blockchain and the the combined sum of the value of all the unpsent outputs assigned to addresses for which I have access to the private key total 20 BTC".
7366  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: [warning] bitmit.net was sold secret without telling the community. on: January 08, 2013, 06:01:50 PM
No.  But then again I dind't know Tosaki (the original Tosaki) was or wasn't German.

Very shady to sell site, forum accounts, email, etc to a new entity without making it public.   Lying (by omission) doesn't exactly inspire confidence.  I won't be using bitmit in the future and I have been an early supporter.
7367  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: bASIC not shipping till end of March on: January 08, 2013, 02:14:10 PM
Well this is going to get ugly.  Such a horribly bad announcement means that chargebacks/refunds (which were already going to increase significantly) are likely going to exceed cash on hand.  Then what?  I mean the not so hidden truth is all the ASIC companies have been operating a "fractional reserve" of sorts.  By spending some/all the pre-order funds to get product out the door they simply can't handle more than a certain % of refunds.  What happens when the number of requests exceed that %?  I don't know for sure but I think we are about to find out.

D&T rules of business (now available on amazon and kindle)
Quote
Rule Number 27:
Don't allow your CEO (or any company rep) release a incomprehensible press release while shit faced drunk and then go onto to get into drunken brawls with customers.  In some instances, it has been know to make a bad situation worse.
7368  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FRC exchange! on: January 08, 2013, 02:09:15 PM
Good trade with dego.  Now selling 30k FRC @ .3 BTC per 1k. 



Ill take em

30k sold to jjimm_64.  Great trade. 

yes..  interestingly, even tho 3 10k's were all in block 14588, only 2 confirmed in the next block..

Never seen that before.  Wonder what would cause that.  Possible I sent it at the exact same moment the block was found?  I'll be interested to see if it gets 1 confirm, while the other two transfers get 2 confirm in the next block. 

Edit:  Yep that's what happened.  2, 2, 1 confirmations for the three transactions on the next block. 

I think you are confused. 

1 confirm = "Included in a block"
2 confirms = a block found after the block the tx was included in.
3 confirms = 2 blocks found after the block the tx was included in.
....
n confirms = n-1 blocks found after the block the the tx was included in.
7369  Economy / Economics / Re: US Gov may mint a 1 Trillion dollar coin out of thin air - Hiperinflation? on: January 08, 2013, 02:03:10 PM
Um guys the fed has "printed" ~$2T out of thin air in the last five years (Fed's balance sheet increased from ~$800B to $2.9T).  If we include the Fed's off balance sheet (magical money they print out of nowhere and lend to foreign central banks so for some reason it doesn't count on the "official" books) it is closer to a ~$4T expansion.

Now the stupid ~$1T coin will never be made but not for the reason the Senator thinks.   The FED isn't in the business of giving away money.  The FED LOANS money.  If the FED produced a ~$1T coin and loaned it to the treasury it would be no different than the Fed buying $1T in govt bonds.   Either way it is a loan = debt = included in the debt ceiling.   Hell if the FED just wanted to give away money well they could simply buy some government debt and "vanish it".  Tada govt has $1T, $2T, $10T, $15T less debt.  It's magic.  No need for stupid coins to do that.
Where did you get that the FED would mint the coin?

DOH.  Too early and not enough coffee.  The first part is still applicable though.
7370  Economy / Economics / Re: US Gov may mint a 1 Trillion dollar coin out of thin air - Hiperinflation? on: January 08, 2013, 01:53:02 PM
Um guys the fed has "printed" ~$2T out of thin air in the last five years (Fed's balance sheet increased from ~$800B to $2.9T).  If we include the Fed's off balance sheet (magical money they print out of nowhere and lend to foreign central banks so for some reason it doesn't count on the "official" books) it is closer to a ~$4T expansion.
The USD monetary base went from less than 1T$ to 3T$ or I misunderstood what you wrote? Why the prices didn't bumped 3 times?

Because at the same time velocity fall off a cliff.  Monetary velocity is (simple version) how many times a single unit of currency is exchanged annually.  So if customer pays your employer $100, and your employer pays you $100, and you pay the grocery store $100 and the grocery store pays a farmer $100 even though it is the same "$100" you have a velocity of 4.  The effective money supply is roughly 4x higher.  So while the FED is rapidly expanding the monetary base the velocity is also falling.  Kinda like trying to fill the bathtub with the drain open.

As someone above pointed out the FED isn't actually putting money into the hands of the people.  It is putting money in the hands of the banks, who in theory should lend it out and increase the effective money supply however due to the FED other actions it is very profitable for the banks to simply borrow money from the FED use it to buy govt debt and mortgage backed securities.  Kinda hard to not make money if you can borrow a (nearly) unlimited amount at ~0% and collect interest at 2% to 4%.  Smiley  Ironically simply having a free "lottery" where the winner gets $x dollars on a VISA gift card which must be spent within 365 days would be far more effective then handing ever increasing quantities of money to the banks to do "nothing" with it.


So money supply has exploded but no price inflation because the money is being circulated less.  However if the economy did finally pick up and velocity jumped to normal rates before the FED could soak up that excess money supply you would see massive inflation.  Probably not hyperinflation but price inflation in the high teens like the early 80s are certainly possible.



To use an analogy imagine if people are cold so the FED solution is to soak them with gasoline.  They still aren't warm so the  FED keeps dumping more and more and more gasoline.  Weeks, months go by and nope people aren't warm yet so the gasoline soaking continues, entire neighborhoods soaked with gasoline, businesses soaked with gasoline.  Tanker trucks of gasoline are brought in and 24/7 spraying of gasoline everywhere continues.   When the people complain "hey we are still cold", Ben Bernake's answer is "eventually there will be a spark and everyone will be warm".
7371  Economy / Economics / Re: US Gov may mint a 1 Trillion dollar coin out of thin air - Hiperinflation? on: January 08, 2013, 12:46:00 PM
Um guys the fed has "printed" ~$2T out of thin air in the last five years (Fed's balance sheet increased from ~$800B to $2.9T).  If we include the Fed's off balance sheet (magical money they print out of nowhere and lend to foreign central banks so for some reason it doesn't count on the "official" books) it is closer to a ~$4T expansion.

This is the part where D&T fails reading comprehension. 

Now the stupid ~$1T coin will never be made but not for the reason the Senator thinks.   The FED isn't in the business of giving away money.  The FED LOANS money.  If the FED produced a ~$1T coin and loaned it to the treasury it would be no different than the Fed buying $1T in govt bonds.   Either way it is a loan = debt = included in the debt ceiling.   Hell if the FED just wanted to give away money well they could simply buy some government debt and "vanish it".  Tada govt has $1T, $2T, $10T, $15T less debt.  It's magic.  No need for stupid coins to do that.
7372  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: selling MoneyPak on: January 08, 2013, 03:55:36 AM
A D&T public service announcement:  
To date every single new seller of moneypaks or gift cards in bulk at steep discounts has resulted in a scam.
MoneyPaks are cash.  Ever seen someone offer to sell you $100 bill for $65?  
7373  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Need help with GPG setup on: January 08, 2013, 02:37:18 AM
Thanks could you remove my email so spambots don't harvest it?

spambots can harvest it directly from the PGP keyservers. Smiley
7374  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Need help with GPG setup on: January 08, 2013, 02:36:52 AM
MIT search engine is for the name of the key not the keyID.

For example our company KEYID is C26C17CD searching for that yields nothing but search for Tangible Cryptography and you will find the C26C17CD key.

When manually uploading the key (which you likely don't need to do) you must copy the ENTIRE public key.  The KeyID is merely an identifier it isn't the key.  Think of it as a serial number for the key.

For example, our company key

KEYID (short version): C26C17CD
KEYID (long version): 28BB715FC26C17CD
Fingerprint: 3AF3 01A1 91EC E112 621C  ACC0 28BB 715F C26C 17CD

Actual Public Key
Code:
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)

mQENBE/VLUUBCACvd4lw8GpmiHJ0ru+C5HuWd9EJ/quCZ1tgqg+9JOUf+7ZJCxFf
qgbfEA7K6kMu0ine0423LvfKUtvZhBAsCSvsvpaBrv/nEF41YFn6e61CzE9tBuTQ
JqTuV8GoVw+1ZimiTbtLtqh+X2t5bX2wOrSuWARHCC+voNrlcLjKirJwWIVCy59b
8rUMt6iyk5Y+jn3CgXeyzuYI3+PfXIfiCvdvqksfM5H0DuzophY2TSh15+f9SJTb
ulwRvb6tnL47dJmFT6n96QuhMBHVrcfYyIhciARCN14k/R4zfMNtk5K+oTIhNiJ0
SfpZJ0EaZfPpS7pZPvMgDsF17MBNkTK/vXc5ABEBAAG0OVRhbmdpYmxlIENyeXB0
b2dyYXBoeSBMTEMgPGluZm9AdGFuZ2libGVjcnlwdG9ncmFwaHkuY29tPokBPgQT
AQIAKAIbAwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AFAlDbReMFCQLtyssACgkQ
KLtxX8JsF81BXwgAo70eS7k6vz/9z9DCrPq4tRal0akMvmEqpmH7fteAvkk/1xer
LNiExfAe6JNuvtrQo9cqOK48/RUrnif0dJbhIXFkzE1tJfL//KeK46H21fKvOs9l
vcnYUlYyrqZ01a0W4wybMX6BFxy5LJ2hlC5diX8Ao4SYOvCRJJnIQIffFuN3XF8a
C02lSXHtjx+V53R4stmG11WTl2bsydPyrtfK/xveXzK+lJsCDBgZ9cUpZC2/a02t
pMEwi8dXJkWUUQCSwKt8sJoV4YVRKO3u1LWLDmbq7lppr7etemrDwvij0PPtfzr9
E6R7rpX8aiVN87xPiLzBz2ITYX9gGFLpTE0TwrkBDQRP1S1FAQgAr4O3FjnlSuPp
8Z/IGIUwhpxqsBOb6DD0o0POae2/ifWWOHu/P2Wo1KKUDku0CQQ1xuMOkWquHv2j
3nvoXJ12tcIXUK/SCyMYlyomQ6SOYwyg7yQH0N04Ui4RZyChtMg43twVneqGkZGF
EaQ16KC3c/8Y4IJk2DzlCCE545XyarPlnzzBf4rNtpUPY0qV88roM6lpMj3YW9WU
H/3nExyD9+oFDXNh37p9mVAnXXmKvTqC6rSVsNwq7i7XtCKOdXqvcbFshGpc4yiH
RuCCmwQdXzQIJYwvGWAGnGQIL7YGptgk2qzKgL4mWbbUO1hdWLXYM+5Y4532I0oH
T85CI3DgKQARAQABiQEfBBgBAgAJBQJP1S1FAhsMAAoJECi7cV/CbBfNvuwH/j+G
R00kowuC4r8FR/RoYJzBYDabvn+ir3EV1hirAuPM3qnttLDYQZYFCNc9cS4UCFdO
OuY+B3EYA6go/MfqT4tXAdSaIe/QrVKqU0zGwg0ADpONP1cS9+ICP50LRY05tU51
OuajBjrP4s/mfmfkcg9HkEpGmmoUiKe0zZbsfmkCXUNUfH8KMXEpy35ln3OwCCNQ
/WOCufyN/eI+9kvjfRwUv8A08tSkPWrk9rgup9o2uQ5KDDDKEIFB+UNkk6ad6HRk
lrma6kYNBD6UahqOTUrBTlx2cN7MQfAON/ljc8cEUQdAHcVB316LoBJpHluLLTpX
9hp61F2RzYO1TlHfpVc=
=6ek9
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

7375  Economy / Goods / Re: Nuts.com Vouchers - CHEAP & awesome deal on: January 08, 2013, 12:58:17 AM
Why don't people learn?  Nobody, I mean nobody has an endless supply of 50% off gift cards/codes.  Nobody.  Ever.  It always is a scam.  Period.

Now someone selling a SINGLE gift card ("hey I got this stupid Best Buy card and I never ship there 50% off OBO") might not be a scam but someone saying "Hey I got an unlimited supply of $100 BB gift cards for $50 in BTC" is always a scam.  Strangely it always works.  Also escrow is no protection from this type of scam.  As seen the scammer will gladly accept escrow because he has every intention on delivering a code ... it just happens to be a code purchased with a stolen credit card.
7376  Other / Off-topic / Re: Why hasn't any of those nefarious regimes detonated a nuke yet? on: January 08, 2013, 12:45:10 AM
It is unlikely there are that many nuclear devices unaccounted for.  Also many unaccounted devices are simply irrecoverable. Devices that were lost at sea (submarine accidents) may have sank thousands of feet below their crush depth.  The weapon is "lost" and will never be recovered but nobody is going to use it as a weapon.    

The biggest obstacle is that modern thermo nuclear devices require a never ending army of maintenance technicians.  Any device lost more than a decade ago would require some very sophisticated experts and access to precision equipment, tools, and material to get it weapon ready again.   A nuclear device is continually undergoing nuclear decay and has lots of volatile components like deuterium and tritium gas (which slowly leak through just about any barrier made by man).   Combine that with unstable components like precision timed implosion explosives, triggers, a neutron emitters and you have a device which doesn't "age" well.  The nuclear decay continually warms the device (like a never ending 200W lightbulb) which leads to problems like drying lubricants and explosives.  Eventually even the metal will undergo fatigue from the continual neutron bombardment.  In theory weapons are designed with a strong link, weak link design so that internal system failures will break the weak link first and render the device inoperable (rather than having a volatile unpredictable device and still operational device).

The US spends about $30B a year to maintain these ancient killing things.  This is a cost which will continue literally forever or the weapons will eventually become nonfunctional. 
7377  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) discussion (was FreiCoin (FRC) for TRC, PPC, LTC or BTC) on: January 08, 2013, 12:30:28 AM
Why is maximum difficulty multiplier limited to 4?  Huh

Bitcoin does the same thing it is a safety mechanism to prevent for a griefing attack.  It is much less likely now but imagine back when CPU mining was common.  A massive botnet or supercomputer could mine a difficulty interval so fast it would cause the difficulty to shoot up 100x.  Then they could simply stop and Bitcoin would die a death of starvation with the average block time being 16 hours and the time till next difficulty reset something like 4 years.

HOWEVER.  Satoshi did some benchmarking and chose a starting difficulty that would require roughly a dozen computers.  Bitcoin was less popular than that and as a result difficult remained 1 for months before it gained critical mass to move difficulty up.   FRC either through ignorance or malice chose to keep a difficulty of 1 despite the average node now being able to mine 500x faster.  It would have been like Satoshi picking a difficulty of 0.002 and as a result mining 20% of the coins himself in the first week.
7378  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) discussion (was FreiCoin (FRC) for TRC, PPC, LTC or BTC) on: January 08, 2013, 12:24:20 AM

How is it difficult to understand on the second day 8000 blocks were mined.  Are you saying it took longer? I'd like to see that data.  I'm purely going off the charts provided here, which maybe wrong.  Is there a way to view when blocks where made on freicoin?  I'd like to see when block 1 and 8000 were made.  Then its easy math.

PS

It took about 2 days for 8000 blocks, but thats just how the difficulty adjustment in Bitcoin is designed. We would have gotten to 8000 even faster if the network had more hashing power, believe it or not.

Well no initial difficulty didn't need to be set at 1.  Given that per processor hashrate has grown by a factor of 500x since Bitcoin was launched (unoptimized non-OpenCL CPU code vs highly optimized OpenCL GPU miners) it is kinda insane one would choose to launch with a difficulty of 1.

Of course a difficulty of 1 means that rather than the first 8,000 blocks taking 3 months like Bitcoin it took less than 48 hours and those who participated in those early 48 hours when almost nobody knew the coin existed were able to mine at 30x faster than the targeted rate and those who mined in the first 4 hours mined at over 70x the targeted rate.
7379  Economy / Economics / Re: Why I think Bitcoin will not become an national currency on: January 07, 2013, 07:12:06 PM
As I see it, should Bitcoin mature enough for the price per BTC to scale to thousands of dollars (or several dollars per BTM), it won't matter that much whether the price is $5k or $10k, because the Bitcoin economy won't price link most things to dollars the way it seems to today. So the difference between a $5k and a $10k bitcoin seems less significant than the difference between a $5 and $10 bitcoin, IMHO.

That is a silly concept.  Of course $5K vs $10K will matter just as much as $5 vs $10.  Other currencies is something you can buy with BTC.  Even if most trade is in BTC directly traded for goods and services it won't change the fact that prices will adjust to a change in the exchange rate.

Hypothetical example.  Say BTC exchange rate is $5K USD = 1 BTC.  You find a car dealership which sells cars in BTC.  You find a nice car you like and the dealer offers it to you for 10 BTC.  You shop around dollar based dealershps and find this is a relatively good dea  (most other USD based dealerships are selling same car for ~$50,000).  Fast forward 5 years and you decide to upgrade to a new XYZ model which most dealerships have for ~$70,000.  You go to your friendly BTC dealership and he wants 10 BTC.  But wait you could SELL the 10 BTC for $100,000 even with exchange fees, buy the car at a USD dealership and pocket the other $29K+.

As long as product xyz is offered in both USD & BTC the prices will fluctuate based on the exchange rate.  Otherwise one side or the other is getting a bad deal and the side getting the bad deal can simply opt to sell/buy on the exchange and trade in the more favorable currency.

Now with a price of $5K we are talking a coin supply worth ~$100B and thus it is likely the deep liquidity will make volatility much less.  Merchants may not have to adjust their prices very often because the daily exchange rate might only vary by say 0.2% or less.  Still a rise (over weeks, months, or even decades) from $5K to $10K will require adjusting prices it is illogical to think consumers would opt to (as an example) get a $70,000 car for 10BTC vs selling the coins and getting the same car for 7 BTC.
7380  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FRC exchange! on: January 07, 2013, 06:08:33 PM
Bid/Ask at beginning of thread was B:0.5 | A:1.0  (BTC per 1K FRC)
Now it is B:0.2 | A: 0.3

How low can it go? Think we will see 0.1 per 1K by the end of the week?
The good news for the "foundation" is that even at 0.1 per 1K their 80M FRC is worth > $100K USD.
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