Bitcoin Forum
May 09, 2024, 01:54:36 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 [337] 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 ... 800 »
6721  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Why did this transaction need a fee? on: March 27, 2013, 03:06:42 PM
Do you mean, each prior output is separate even on the same address?

Yes.  Bitcoin works on the concept out outputs.  All txs* use as an input one or more outputs of prior tx.  Outputs are either unspent or spent.   Using 2 outputs from the same address for a tx is no different then using two outputs from two different addresses.

Understanding anything about Bitcoin at the nuts and bolts level is very difficult until one grasps that concept. 

If you receive 1 BTC at address X, then 2 BTC at address X, then 3 BTC at address X you don't have "6 BTC".  You have three distinct and unique outputs (which so far happen to be unpent).  The VALUE of those unspent outputs are 6 BTC so your wallet will show 6.0 BTC but at the protocol level you have 3 unique and distinct unspent outputs.

If you create a new transaction you will use one or more of those unspent outputs (and in the process make them spent) as inputs and create one or more NEW unspent outputs.  The fact that they go to a different address or wallet (something the protocol has no concept of) is immaterial.


1) Wallets, addresses, "coins" they are all abstractions. 
2) Bitcoin is ledger of the current ownership of unspent outputs.
3) A tx has as its input one or more unspent outputs (from prior txs).
4) A tx "spends" those outputs used as the input (the purpose of the blockchain is to record they are spent and prevent respending).
5) A tx has one or more new outputs (which eventually will be used as inputs for future txs)

Bitcoin is a public ledger who's various components (digital signatures, p2p network, block generation) record the change in ownership of discrete outputs.
6722  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: I made a giant, overpriced mining rig on: March 27, 2013, 02:58:53 PM
ASIC or not you didn't build ANYTHING.  It isn't that you super rig is pointless or not economical .... it doesn't exist.   You claim to get 59 GH/s out of 12 GPU.  That is a 100% lie.   You made up a stupid lie, got caught, now own up to it.
6723  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: I made a giant, overpriced mining rig on: March 27, 2013, 01:26:57 PM
To any noob who might be mislead the OP is full of crap.  The numbers simply make no sense.  First of all the fact that he didn't realize that redundancy doesn't matter, nor does high end CPU, nor does massive amounts of ram or storage should be a clue.

Mining is perfectly parallel.  There is no need for inter hasher communication just some very very basic control and management.  A low end sempron is more than enough to run OS & cgminer.

Still that would just mean the (imaginary) rig is just a bad investment.  The OP stated 12 GPU and 59 GH/s.  There is no GPU which can produce ~5GH/s.   A 5970 heavily overclocked can get about 850 MH/s but it isn't going to be stable, cool, or efficient and getting more than 800 MH/s out of 7970 is unlikely.  More realistic 24/7 efficiently clocked GPU are going to get much less. OP didn't build anything but a tall tale.

or TL/DR version:
You could start selling hot air.
6724  Economy / Speculation / Re: 1 billion today on: March 27, 2013, 01:19:51 PM
To expand upon what Stephen said if the price remained at ~$88 then we would hit $1 billion in a month.  Even if it fell back to say ~$65 we would hit it by the end of the year.
6725  Other / Off-topic / Re: Son of Man on: March 27, 2013, 01:15:34 PM
When you conquer fear of death, what is there to fear?

The fear of being immortal and forced to listen to your idiotic ramblings for the rest of eternity. 
6726  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: bitfloor needs your help! on: March 27, 2013, 01:12:25 PM
Did bitfloor just make a payment?  No announcement but my books wouldn't balance and I login to see an unexplained increased in BTC.
6727  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Denominating Bitcoin amounts on: March 27, 2013, 12:58:18 PM
mBTC.  Too easy.

"I can't believe a batch3 Avalon is almost 74,000 mBTC".
6728  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Help with pgp encryption please guys on: March 27, 2013, 12:39:30 PM
So I can't decrypt messages that I've sent?

You need to include your key as one of the keys to encrypt the message with.

If you encrypt a message with only "X" public key then only X can decrypt it.  If you want both you and X to be able to decrypt a message you need to select both YOUR public key AND "X" public key when encrypting.

To make this easier gpg (which gpa uses behind the scenes) has an option to encrypt with a preset a key in all messages.

In GPA click on [Edit] menu and then [Back End Preferences].  On the GPG for OpenPGP tab for the option "encrypt to" enter your 8 digit KEYID.    Once set if you encrypt a message to "X" GPG will actually encrypt the message for "X" AND the key you enter here.
6729  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Struggling to get started.. please help! on: March 27, 2013, 12:26:09 PM
It is mining but at 1.1 MH/s you might as well go look for spare change in the parking lot instead.  Mining is becomes more of a "serious" activity.  It requires the right hardware, a significant investment, good electrical rates, and decent technical knowledge.  The days of just running a miner on any random junk hardware are long gone.
6730  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: one wallet, two addresses - transfer btc? on: March 26, 2013, 10:06:58 PM
Sure.  although bitcoin-QT doesn't make it easy to control from which address coins come from

So, what if I have 2 btc in one address in my wallet and 5 btc in other address, and then I send 3... what does Bitcoin-Qt do?

Well the first thing to realize is Bitcoin has no concept of "x value at address z".  Bitcoin ONLY cares about outputs.

It is possible to have 10 BTC worth of outputs at one address made up of hundreds or thousands of discrete outputs.
i.e.
output worth 0.2 BTC
output worth 0.3 BTC
output worth 0.1 BTC
...
output worth 0.4 BTC
output worth 0.2 BTC

When you wallet says "you have 7 BTC" what is really means is you have a colleciton of unspent outputs whos combined value is worth 7 BTC.  It could be a single unspent output or it could be a half dozen all the same address, or it could be a few hundred one at each of a few hundred addresses.

So without knowing how the value of your wallet is organized it is unknown outputs (and thus from which address) will be used in the transaction.


You have two options:
a) forget about it.  Bitcoin QT was designed to operate at the wallet level. You have 7 BTC.  If you want to spend it, spend it, and the wallet will pick the right combinations of outputs to spend it.

b) use a wallet (such as electrum or blockchain.info) which allows coin control.

still as tysat pointed out you might want to ask yourself "why" you want to do this.  You can think of outputs as similar to fiat "bills".   If you owe a merchant 23 USD and you look in your wallet and there are 20x $1 USD bills,  3x $5 USD bills, 7x $10 USD bills, one $20 and one $100 bill it doesn't really matter which bill you use.  Bitcoin works the same way.  The wallet finds a set of outputs (like bills) worth more than the amount you are trying to send and then creates a tx with the amount you are sending going to the merchant and the "change" (leftover) going back to another address in your wallet.


  Bitcoin QT (and other wallets) uses a coin selection algorithm which attempts to pick
6731  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: one wallet, two addresses - transfer btc? on: March 26, 2013, 06:48:50 PM
Sure.  although bitcoin-QT doesn't make it easy to control from which address coins come from.  Using a wallet like blockchain.info eWallet is likely easier as you have control over the exact input being used.

At the protocol level the network has no concept of wallets. All transactions are simply assigning ownership of an unspent output to a new (or same but that is kinda pointless) address.  The network doesn't "know" or "care" if the two addresses are in the same wallet or on different continents.
6732  Economy / Goods / Re: Is it possible to sell a house? on: March 26, 2013, 04:15:07 PM
Sure if the buyer doesn't mind getting the house with a basis of $100.  Of course when he sells the house in a few years for $500,000 and can't find a sucker willing to offload his tax liability his liability becomes ($500,000 sale price - $100 purchase price ) = $499,990 gain. 

Essentially your "tax free" isn't free the buyer is just an idiot willing to pay your taxes and his taxes.  Note you don't need Bitcoin to do this.  You could do it with cash or any other valuable just as easily (gold, car, etc).
6733  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Unencrypted blockchain leads to snooping on: March 26, 2013, 04:08:52 PM
If you trust SD with your credits you may as well trust them with their scripts.

Isn't bitcoin all about zero-trust?  Just because I am willing to risk .01BTC, does it mean I am willing to trust them with other things?

No the purpose of bitcoin is to allow commerce without needing to trust a THIRD PARTY. You always need to trust your counterparty.  Bitcoin or xCoin isn't going to change that.   If you don't trust the persons you are doing business with ... don't do business with them.  If I promise to sell you gold for x BTC and you pay and I don't then you lose.  Bitcoin can't prevent that.  Taken to the extreme if I mail you some gold you are trusting that I won't follow the mailman, attack you and take the gold back.  Bitcoin eliminates the need to trust a central authority it doesn't eliminate the need for trust ... just ask Pirate's "investors".

Of course your SD example is even more silly when you realize the website isn't needed.  Send 0.01 BTC or more to this address 1dice97ECuByXAvqXpaYzSaQuPVvrtmz6  and you have a 50/50 chance of winning.  If you win winnings are sent back to you and if you lose a losing amount if sent back to you.  See now you can play without google ever knowing you visisted SD.
6734  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Unencrypted blockchain leads to snooping on: March 26, 2013, 05:14:12 AM
If you think that the public ledger is a crucial part of the design, please explain.  I see no reason why transactions should not be encrypted and visible only to the parties involved.

To prevent a double spend when your node receives a tx it traces the lineage of the tx back to the block where it was minted (coinbase tx).  If the tx history was encrypted you would be unable to do so.  Essentially the security model becomes "well this one miner said it is good so trust me it is good".  It would be trivial to attack the network under such a limited security model.  Still like I said if you feel encrypted blockchain makes sense write some code (or pay someone to write some code) or at the very least write a white paper.

My guess is you have no understanding of how Bitcoin tracks "coins", prevents double spends, or ensures a tx is authentic.  You can't make a replacement until you understand the current version.  

Hint: there is no such thing as coins, or address "value".  There are only outputs.  Nothing but outputs.  Outputs are either spent or unspent.  The input of a tx is always the unspent output of a prior tx.  You can't authenticate a tx without being able to authenticate the unspent output being used as an input.

BTW: there are methods to make a digital currency more anonymous.  Double blind signature are one example.  It would require some novel design to combine double blind signatures into a robust secure decentralized network which is secured by proof of work.  Still this would be real security not some DRM the blockchain for the winz!
6735  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Unencrypted blockchain leads to snooping on: March 26, 2013, 05:06:34 AM
Your "system" is nothing more than feel good security.  If miners can decrypt the tx for verification then so can someone acting as a miner ... say the NSA and create an identical bit for bit decrypted copy of the blockchain.

Of course if only miners and keyholder could decrypt a tx it would mean that "normal" nodes couldn't perform any verification.  This would leave the network very vulnerable to collusion by miners or any attack node attempting to recreate an alternate history of coins.  

The reason for making the blockchain accessible to all nodes is that Bitcoin works on a "trustless" model.  Your node doesn't trust any other node.  Actually by default it assumes every other node is trying to feed it nonsense garbage.  Your node will validate every block and every tx back to the genesis block so that once it is synced it has an identical independently verified copied.  This makes attacks which attempt to feed nodes "false history" all but impossible to pull off.

My guess is you are part of the DRM generation.   You can use cryptography to keep secrets from the entity which needs to know the secret.  It wasn't designed for that and it NEVER works.  

Still if you feel an "encrypted" blockchain is desirable or superior well the project is open source make a fork of it and may the best chain win. 
6736  Economy / Securities / Re: [For Sale] Shares in coinbase.com on: March 26, 2013, 03:19:48 AM
I don't understand, if you are not affiliated with Coinbase, then how do you have 200,000 shares?

The shares were retained from a partner disagreement at the start of YCombinator.

There is no restrictive legend on the shares (unusual for unregistered securities)?  Do you have a copy of the company bylaws?  Is there any restriction on selling to outsider?  Do existing owners have first right of refusal?  Can existing owners block the sale?  Have you discussed the intent to sell with existing owners?

I am potentially interested however would like to avoid as many roadblocks as possible.  If you don't know the answers to the above it is almost certain you are going to need to find out to entertain any kind of serious bid. 
6737  Economy / Securities / Re: [For Sale] Shares in coinbase.com on: March 26, 2013, 03:18:34 AM

Can somebody please post the registered company name coinbase is trading under any any accounts previously filed with the IRS?

I'm from the UK it's pretty easy to get that info on UK companies, I don't understand how the American systems work.


Without the accounts with profit / loss, Turnover, Order book, and existing shares issued it is impossible to value the company, If you can't value the company you can't value the shares. Due dilligence and all that, I can't work on a share price based on the OP's vague posts regarding 10m shares, no disrespect intended I just need more information.

The company is coinbase, inc (a Delaware Corporation).  However the company is privately held.  None of that information is public record.  I am pretty sure there are private companies in the UK as well.  Unless a company is publicly traded it is not required to disclose financial reports (and almost never do) outside of confidential owner reports/memorandums.

Simple version: you won't find the info you are looking for in any public record.  In 3-5 years if coinbase goes public it will then have an IPO, register with the SEC as a registered security, and be required to file quarterly, and annual reports.
6738  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: what do i do with a freicoin on: March 26, 2013, 03:06:41 AM
the more i hoard this coin the more it loses value, where can i buy something with it?



Maybe you could pay a software developer to make a ticker/app which shows how much value you have already lost to this dubious idea.  Like a realtime you have lost "X" clock.
6739  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Why did this transaction need a fee? on: March 26, 2013, 01:53:02 AM
Ah thanks... the explaination is that i made a big transaction a hour before. And the money i sent later was money that was sent to a change address in the transaction before. So the coins i sent were very new at that address.
Good to know. In future i should uncheck the use of change addresses if i want to send more than one transaction.

I don't use electrum but I would assume if you uncheck change address the change is sent back to the original address.  When that happens the age is reset.  Bitcoin works on the concept out unspent outputs.  When you spend an output the age of the new unspent outputs is 0.  No way around that. 

By keeping more coins and letting them age you can reduce the amount of fees paid however.  If you had a 5 BTC unspent output with 8 or more confirmations you could have made the first tx without paying a fee.
6740  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Definition of the term "millibitcent" on: March 26, 2013, 01:40:56 AM
I am just puzzled why such an intelligent an maths-friendly community, the bitcoin community, makes such a basic mistake in the use of the term "millibitcent"

Broad brush?  I have never used such an idiotic term.  Never heard anyone else use it either.  If a single person uses a term somewhere, someplace it means the "community" uses it?

mBTC in whole numbers fine my uses.
Pages: « 1 ... 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 [337] 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 ... 800 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!