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401  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How to get your non-tech-savvy friends/relatives into Bitcoin on: January 14, 2014, 11:13:26 PM
The idea is that you give them 1 BTC as an incentive (omg, $900 free??) to start learning about it.

That was my thought behind giving the kids, their significant others, and grandkids each a bitcoin for xmas. So far, it has sparked quite a bit of follow up. Smiley

Brilliant! You gave me this idea: Bitcoin for Birthdays Project


I'd suggest having them watch the Andreas video:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbSdnuFOLV4nMiQG9gvPBX_VQUf6E4COM

…then, rather than getting caught up in the daily price volatility, they will come to understand the bigger picture and "get it."

Completely agree, but how do you get them to watch the video? What's the incentive?


The easiest way in my opinion is give them some BTC on coinbase. Once they have some of their own, they will be much more likely to appreciate its value and learn more about it.

It can be a tiny amount, like .01, its just that they have some. The best people to give it to are people ages 10-20, as they are the future, and younger people tend to be more open minded.

.01 BTC might work with children, but most adults wouldn't bother with that amount. For most people it has to be substantial.


Quote from: vcalv1014
I just recently got into bit coins but have little to no understanding of how they work. I've heard about mining coins but that is foreign to me as well. I will be reading the newbie section and trying to learn as much as possible.

Welcome! I hope you find Bitcoin as fascinating as all of us here!
402  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoin for Birthdays Project on: January 14, 2014, 11:08:58 PM
Someone's birthday coming up and you have nothing specific for them?

If he/she is minimally computer-savvy, set up an account on an exchange, fund it with 1 BTC (0.x just doesn't look that good!), and hand them the URL, username and password as a gift (along with an explanation, of course).

Present it as a riddle, if you think that'll work best. For children this seems like the way to go.

Explain that the purpose, the real gift, is to get them to learn about the future of currency/money.

Some might read enough to decide not to cash out right away, thus becoming one of us! Cheesy

If anyone pulls this off, please post about it here!
403  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What are the chances BTC is replaced by something better soon? on: January 14, 2014, 09:18:55 PM
Top contenders to replace Bitcoin:

- "2nd generation cryptocurrencies" (NXT etc)
- Coins with faster block time
- Coins with smaller blockchain size (e.g. auto-pruning?)
- Proof of Stake coins
- Higher-anonymity coins
404  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the Council on Foreign Relations on: January 14, 2014, 08:49:14 PM
I'm usually pretty careful not to call people names.  Did I screw up?

You didn't mean to, but you did use a pretty nasty term: conspiracy theories. It's a subconscious reaction to cognitive dissonance. We've been programmed to label out-of-the-box thinking as "conspiracy theory," a label which out-of-the-box thinkers rightly dislike.

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I DO think there are lots of crazy conspiracy theories. I might even believe some of them myself, but that doesn't make me crazy (just "almost certainly wrong.").

Being "crazy" is the norm in nature. The opposite behavior is conforming. If you are afraid of being labeled "crazy," then you are conforming.

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - J. Krishnamurti

Like a society in which over 1 billion people are starving because they don't have "money" to "pay" for food.

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RE: child exploitation:  Good example.  We all agree that child exploitation is BAD, right?

We might disagree about what (if anything) we should DO about it, but isn't it worth discussing whether or not there is something we MIGHT do about it?  For example, maybe offering mostly-anonymous bounties to reward anybody who gives information that leads to the arrest and conviction of people abusing children for profit or pleasure is a good idea.  Maybe those bounties could be paid in Bitcoin.

It's a well-meaning idea in-and-of-itself, but that will not be the end result, as other posters pointed out. As stated in the Wired article quite openly, the end goal is to have "controls in place to regulate [digital currencies] like any other form of money."

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Maybe that is a terrible idea that will have awful consequences, but instead of rational discussion there's a knee-jerk GOVERNMENT BAD! that, in my humble opinion, is counter-productive to making the world a better place.

I think it's because many of us realize (i.e. have come to the understanding) that the "government's" intention never has anything to do with the public good. Pedophilia, terrorism, communism, etc are boogeymen, tools they use to increase their level of control (or "power").

Larken Rose is the most powerful voice I have found to help common sense thinkers like myself (and, I suspect, yourself) see things clearly, to understand what is, rather than what we were given to understand throughout our lives. Listening to Larken inevitably shifts one's perspective on the concepts of government and authority. Most of what he says is so common-sensical that it seems illogical to disagree.

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I don't like people assuming that they know what I'm thinking, or assume that because I'm willing to talk to people that I agree with those people, or assume that because I'm pragmatic about regulation I "want regulation."  For the record:  I'm mostly libertarian, I think we'd be just fine if we replaced 99.911% of regulations with voluntary, private, market-based solutions. But that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

I don't understand why you have that attitude ("ain't gonna happen any time soon"). I understand you take a conservative approach and want to remain very humble about what Bitcoin means, but if you're closed to the idea of Bitcoin bringing a revolutionary level of change, then you might unwittingly end up working for the "enemy," so to speak.

Cryptocurrencies are the contender to replace the old, obsolete economic system that no longer serves mankind. Here is the best exposition I've found on how the economic system actually works, completely "conspiracy free":

http://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse

This explains in precise detail why the economic system is mathematically doomed to collapse/fail. I think crypto enthusiasts will find Chris Martenson's Crash Course most fascinating.

Gavin, you knew Satoshi better than most. What do you think was Satoshi's intention all along? The Genesis Block suggests he believed the current economic system will eventually collapse (then again, many people did at the time and no longer do). The fact that he decided to silently vanish would also suggest that he sees something very, very big coming from his creation. A creation that he left in your hands. (“I’ve moved on to other things. It’s in good hands with Gavin and everyone.”)

I think all of us in the cryptocurrency community appreciate you greatly, Gavin, in the same way that we appreciate Satoshi and the other founders/developers. Personally, I do not doubt for a moment your integrity and motives.

But to make the right decisions, one has to have as much relevant information as possible. Dismissing out-of-the-imposed-box thinking as "conspiracy theory" (subconscious term for "impossible, too radical to be true") doesn't help make the world a better place. It does quite the opposite.

I would like to recommend a few very important educational videos for all:

Related to the current (old, obsolete, decrepit, primitive) system:

Chris Martenson's economics crash course - This explains in precise detail why the economic system is mathematically doomed to collapse/fail. I think crypto enthusiasts will find Chris Martenson's Crash Course most fascinating.

Money as Debt (part 1, part 2, part 3) - How is money created? If you can't give a precise answer to this question, watch these important educational videos.

Zeitgeist Addendum - An exposition of the declining economic system and its implications on poverty, wars, inefficiency, unsustainability, sub-optimal products, etc. Explores the idea of a resource-based economy, a fundamentally different, much more logical (hence utopian) alternative, that at the least serves to show how obvious it is that we could do much better. Further info and ideas explored in the sequel Zeitgeist: Moving Forward.

The Money Masters (1996) - The history of money, central banking, and the international bankers. The Rothschild quote posted above (“Give me control over a nation’s currency and I care not who makes its laws.”) is not just some figure of speech.


Related to the paradigm-shifting emergence of decentralized cryptocurrencies:

The True Value of Bitcoin: What You Really Need To Know - Stefan Molyneux, host of Freedomain Radio, the largest philosophy talk show in the world, explains some of the implications of the invention of cryptocurrencies, such as how they render obsolete the entire financial services sector (which outrageously make up ~8% of GDP!).

Videos by Andreas Antonopoulos such as this one: Most people are yet to understand how disruptive this technology is

Why Bitcoin May Be More Disruptive than the Internet - "Bitcoin is one of the most disruptive inventions in our lifetime. To understand this, we have to take a brief look at monetary history and how the money systems in place today are full of third party risk."

And this unrelated one for your amusement: I Think I Know Who Satoshi Is - Seems like the most likely candidate of those proposed so far.

(A note for the inevitable nay-sayers: One should not "believe" anything these videos say because they say so. They are helpful in increasing one's perspective. Believe only your sense of logic and intuition. Don't assume anything is true, whether new information or existing beliefs you assumed to be true.)




My opinion is that we will get to see a cryptocurrency-ubiquitous world monetary system, the concept is too powerful to ever be restrained. If you've spent enough time thinking all the consequences through, you should see that.

+1!

I think it is critical to recognize the dangerous psychology of groups such as the CFR and the individuals of whom they are comprised.

The Book 'Political Ponerology' explains it well.  As sobering and nasty as this reality may be, we the masses have to figure out a way to protect ourselves / the planet from the present ultra elite, which is devoid of a capacity for compassion / caring and comes from a position of ultra-exceptionalism.

+1!
405  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the Council on Foreign Relations on: January 13, 2014, 08:59:15 PM
If you check the CFR board of directors, you'll find the names of some of the "democratically elected leaders" who directly lied to the world in order to justify wars of aggression against foreign nations. There are also several lesser-known figures that might have participated at a lower level in the facilitation of the murders of hundreds of thousands of people. And I would bet 25 BTC that most of those who don't fit into either of those two categories fit into the 3rd category: war profiteers.

That's not to say there are no good people in the CFR. But know who it is, what it is, that we are talking about. This is not by any stretch of the imagination an organization with your/our interests at heart. These are millionaires and billionaires seeking to influence/direct government policy for their personal benefit and amusement.


Noted CIA asset and self admitted space alien Gavin Andressen confirmed today that he is conspiring with the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral commission and the Bilderberger Group to bring about global hegemonic control of all bitcoin transactions through secret NSA backdoors and HAARP mining/weather control datacenters. When asked for comment, noted investigative journalist Alex Jones stated "I predicted this 10 years ago!"

Hilarious! Cheesy But don't confuse/conflate Alex Jones (the Rupert Murdoch of alternative media) with "the opposite view" of the "official view". The official/default view is given by some of the biggest liars and richest people on the planet. There's no actual reason to believe them any more than Alex Jones. If you truly believe the "default/official view" about think tanks like the CFR as presented in the MSM is more credible than Alex Jones' fearmongering drivel, here is a good starting point to rid yourself of that delusion:

When talking about these guys, one word is all you need to check into:

'Ponerology'

And as coinrevo pointed out:

We have to get on from the conspiracy theories. Let us be realistic, if someone has to meet with these groups it should probably be Gavin. I view this development as excessively positive for the future of Bitcoin.

The word conspiracy theory is for hiding behind the straw man. People in the US just don't realize that their capitalistic system is a corporate system through and through. They don't even notice it. And corporatism means that business and government co-opt into a single net of of power. And its exactly institutions that CFR that stand for this. Of course if you're inside that bubble you don't realize it and think everything is just fuzzy and perfect. Like say a Larry Page or Mark Zuckerberg, running around and explaining how the future will just be more of the same. Of course they have no problem with working with the government on spying on people. They just don't call it that. And for someone in such a position to come out in the year 2014 (post Snowden) and play the conspiracy card is very telling. I hope the bitcoin community can really come up with much better positions than that.

Anything labeled a "conspiracy theory" is subconsciously considered false/impossible. Such is the power of the MSM.

Also, make sure that you are on your toes!

These types of meetings are meant for one thing only...to evaluate you / to size you up, so that they can figure out how to manipulate the situation in their favor.

Remember...Bitcoin doesn't need to ask for permission.  It doesn't need to cozy up to the enemy.  And, make no mistake, these guys are the enemy...of the masses...of the planet.

The more I think about it, this meeting is a real $*&t deal!

Absolutely spot-on observation. Those clueless old rich men in suits are hoping to use Gavin to help wrap their minds around the very concept of decentralized digital currency. Their intent is most likely to find ways to "regulate" (control) it.


It's essential that people in the CFR understand the importance of Bitcoin because whether you like them or not they have control over the legacy institutions and those institutions need to adapt to change.

Hahaha, you have got to be kidding me!

You're saying that because they currently have control, it's important that we help them adapt to the change that Bitcoin brings?

"It's essential that people in the Mafia understand the importance of Bitcoin because whether you like them or not they have control over the legacy institutions and those institutions need to adapt to change."

406  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How to get your non-tech-savvy friends/relatives into Bitcoin on: January 13, 2014, 07:42:59 PM
Yeah, that's what I mean by "lower limit of knowledge required to use Bitcoin"... But anyone who is comfortable with a computer should be able to learn how to use Bitcoin. And I'd say that any "normal person" should be comfortable with a computer, at least in the West.

The idea is that you give them 1 BTC as an incentive (omg, $900 free??) to start learning about it. If they're able to provide a bitcoin address for you to send it to, then the incentive will be enough to motivate them.

We are not talking about huge amounts here, like "savings" seems to imply, so security concerns (wallet stealing, forgetting password) shouldn't be an impediment.

Think about it from this perspective: Would you feel comfortable introducing anyone to debt-based fiat currency, given its flaws/problems? Certainly Bitcoin is a better option to introduce someone to.

407  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: eToro launches Bitcoin trade on: January 13, 2014, 07:30:49 PM
Wow, Bitcoin EFT, just what we needed! In no time we'll have 2.1 billion BTC (100x) in IOU's like with the paper silver market.
408  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Fork The Blockchain And Block The Seized FBI Coins. on: January 13, 2014, 07:06:46 PM
I completely agree with the sentiment behind this idea, but I don't think the idea of "coins forfeiture" is acceptable. It's an obvious slippery slope. It seems to go far beyond Bitcoin's ruleset, to the point that it violates fundamental principles behind the Bitcoin idea. I also question the premise... Couldn't they do the same thing you are proposing just by buying up coins the normal way? How are the seized SR coins any different from other coins the USG may have bought with USD?

Remember also that Bitcoin could fall, but that doesn't make much difference. Their battle is against an idea (cryptocurrencies), and ideas cannot be killed. If the USG are able to somehow crash Bitcoin with their coins (whether seized or purchased), then that should be the end of Bitcoin. Another cryptocurrency will take its place.
409  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / How to get your non-tech-savvy friends/relatives into Bitcoin on: January 13, 2014, 06:03:01 PM
Here's what I do:

If he/she hasn't heard about Bitcoin or its recent price spike, I send them the 1-year daily price candlestick chart. I often get back the question "how do I buy bitcoins?"

Then I suggest setting up an account at an exchange and offer to send him/her 1 BTC to play with. For many people this is incentive enough to get into Bitcoin.

(Yes, for free, why not? If you're an early adopter, think of 1 BTC being worth what you bought it for, say $20, rather than its current price. You can of course offer 0.5 or any other number that you think will incentivise your friend/relative.)

You can probably classify most of your friends/relatives as "non-tech-savvy", but you can further divide that category into "some computer understanding" and "clueless", because obviously there's a lower limit of knowledge required to use Bitcoin. The person must be able to operate a computer to some extent. So how to know if your friend/relative is tech-savvy enough? One way I use is to ask them if they know the website address for Facebook. If a person doesn't know that "facebook.com" is the website address for Facebook, I just move on to the next person. Thanks to the dumbing-down efforts of Microsoft et al, it seems like over 50% of Facebook users just type "facebook" into the browser address bar or search bar, not understanding or even knowing about the concept of a website address/URL.
410  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: China's campaign against bitcoin continues on: January 13, 2014, 04:34:12 PM
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China's campaign against bitcoin continues

You make it sound like all of China, people in China, the Chinese people, are against Bitcoin. Let's use more careful language to delineate between the two.

This just means that the Chinese government has finally figured out what Bitcoin is. So they're no longer going to let the Chinese media report truthfully on this subject. There is now an "official" position that the people in the media will feel compelled to approach the subject with.


Yes maybe I should be more clear.... when I say China I mean the Chinese government.  China as in the people of China love bitcoin and are buying it up like crazy, and rightfully so.

I assumed most people would know the difference but you're probably right that going forward I should rephrase it to avoid any confusion or to not risk insulting anyone.

I wasn't thinking about confusion or "political correctness" - I think almost everyone will internally translate the metonym in your topic title correctly ("China" -> "Chinese authorities")... It's more about clarity of language. Using conflating metonyms is something governments love. Identifying/conflating them (subconsciously in our language) with the people they (pretend they have the authority to) rule over gives them great legitimacy.
411  Other / Off-topic / Re: Thinking about naming my baby girl Bitcoin.. (due in 3 weeks) on: January 13, 2014, 03:46:19 PM
"Hey, Bitcoin, sweetie, will you please come up to the blackboard and solve these differential equations?"

It doesn't really work as a male name, either.

If you are really into this idea, I wouldn't go with that name directly. Would you name your son "Dollar"?

If anything, I'd use a different language to "encode" the Bitcoin name in my baby girl's name. Something that translates as "Bit Coin" but sounds cute when pronounced in English. Or instead of "Bit Coin" the encoded term could be something like "Currency of the future".
412  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: China's campaign against bitcoin continues on: January 13, 2014, 03:25:23 PM
Quote
China's campaign against bitcoin continues

You make it sound like all of China, people in China, the Chinese people, are against Bitcoin. Let's use more careful language to delineate between the two.

This just means that the Chinese government has finally figured out what Bitcoin is. So they're no longer going to let the Chinese media report truthfully on this subject. There is now an "official" position that the people in the media will feel compelled to approach the subject with.
413  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [GIVEAWAY] Free COYE - 50 COINYECOIN for everyone on: January 13, 2014, 03:06:29 PM
5YCFHXEfVnw6CvqpNvuz5XvecRQiV1QTb5
414  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [GIVEAWAY] 20,000,000 Mousecoin to give ▅▅▅ Super Gift ▅▅▅ on: January 13, 2014, 02:23:11 PM
Lcqp5ATNNpJ3cUnUQ5J8bvedWFtMF6r4AV
415  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] QQCoin- Download Now- Quick Quick Coin is exactly that, QUICK!- Pools on: January 01, 2014, 07:29:52 PM
QQcoin is an alternate cryptocurrency using a combination of the latest SCRYPT type encryption algorithms. This offers active Difficulty adjustment as well as increasing the mining algorythm to help protect it from ASCI miners.

Protection from ASCII miners?  Cheesy


So is 20-second block time working fine so far??
416  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [OGC][BOUNTY] First Bounty to claim ! 5000 OGC for best logo !! on: January 01, 2014, 07:26:41 PM
Isn't there already a CasinoCoin? Its logo is very good, you could take it and just change the letters CSC to OGC.
417  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What would happen if ISPs start blocking cryptocurrency data? on: December 31, 2013, 05:01:18 PM
That sounds like a wonderful scenario, and I'm all for utopianism, but let's assume the worst-case. Beyond the possible political moves of nation-states, we have to take into account the central banks, who are the real movers, political leaders largely being their puppets. Say all the central bankers get together and decide to do everything they possibly can to stamp out the greatest threat they've ever faced: cryptocurrencies. It would be foolish to think they won't eventually do so, if they haven't already. In fact, ACME would be their baby, their first card. The next measures could be severe persecution of anyone caught "counterfeiting" and the institutionalization/normalization of this anti-digital currencies mentality by means of relentless media propaganda. "Counterfeiters" will be equated with "financial terrorists" and will be dealt with extra-judicially or by any means deemed "necessary" for security, blah blah blah.

The Chinese and Indian central banks have already made some preliminary pronouncements. There's no reason to think they wouldn't fully cooperate with ACME. SE Asia would follow suit behind Thailand. Likewise with Japan and other US-subjugated/client states. In the Middle East no one would step out of this line as it's too easy for the USG and media to label them "terrorists" etc. I somehow can't picture Africans of any sort running ASICs as a means of getting food on the table. The Bolivarian/anti-imperialist nations might be the biggest cryptocurrency adopters at that point, LOL.

We can't assume it won't ever happen. If we want this technology to succeed we need to understand what we're up against and account for worst-case scenarios. Whether you want to call it a totalitarian dictatorship or something else, the difference is largely semantical. The central banksters don't play by the illusory rules of "democracy" that our "elected leaders" supposedly play by. They've been in this for many generations and are not about to give up their monopoly on currency without a fight.

418  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What would happen if ISPs start blocking cryptocurrency data? on: December 31, 2013, 01:07:17 PM
Sounds good. Are you sure that would be enough though? Is there such a type of backup plan already? Or is it just one of the obvious things that could be done in response? I mean, how fleshed out is this idea?

The ACME Act would also make pool operators outlaws, in the same way someone operating a US Dollar printing press would be (other than the Fed).

Would the Pool Operators need to reveal their identities when issuing the self-signed SSL certs? How could Pool Operators remain hidden?

The ACME Act is only in the US, the US is not the centre of the universe. There are 6.5 billion other people on this rock, some 92% of the population who are not US. So the US outlaws US Pool Operators and miners but the rest of the planet will continue.

The Pool Operator doesn't need to reveal their identity, they just generate a self-signed cert for an IP address or URL, you as a miner add their public certificate to your certificate store and now your browser trusts them and can setup and SSL channel. To break it you will need to crack either their or your own private key. Alternately and even better would be the use of a Bitcoin address as part of the miner code that communicates with the pool as Bitcoin which already has an equivalent public and private addresses built in which are essentially the same as public and private certificates or keys, technically it would be very easy to do.

Remember, we're talking future worst-case scenario here. I wrote that the UNSC member states also adopted ACME, and we can imagine that they would be pressuring non-member states to go along with its provisions under subtle threat of violence (because not complying would make them part of the "threat to the world economy").

I guess the key is not so much getting around the restrictions, for that is easy from a technological standpoint. What's harder is to avoid losing too many users. We can't ask the average user to "just switch to port 80" or something like that. Software updates should be as simple as possible... I'd say they should be automatic by default.
419  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What would happen if ISPs start blocking cryptocurrency data? on: December 30, 2013, 08:00:55 PM
Sounds good. Are you sure that would be enough though? Is there such a type of backup plan already? Or is it just one of the obvious things that could be done in response? I mean, how fleshed out is this idea?

The ACME Act would also make pool operators outlaws, in the same way someone operating a US Dollar printing press would be (other than the Fed).

Would the Pool Operators need to reveal their identities when issuing the self-signed SSL certs? How could Pool Operators remain hidden?

420  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What would happen if ISPs start blocking cryptocurrency data? on: December 30, 2013, 06:59:34 PM
Port blocking? We're talking sophistication here.

Notice I said that when following the ACME Act, packets are discarded when "matching certain strings"... This is much more computationally expensive than blocking traffic by port, but note who and what we're talking about here.

Can blockchain data be detected based on examination of the data (strings or regexes) by ISPs? If yes, is there a viable encryption/scrambling method that could defeat this measure?
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