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801  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2016, 05:06:32 PM
monero pump is getting serious...

+47% in 24h
+183% in 72h

and keep pushing. Finally it´s working

Well, yeah. Everybody is giving up on Bitcoin because now we know the miner cowards will not challenge Core even when their customers demand it.  

I love the false posturing of people threatening to buy Monero or Ether. ...

False posturing don't move the price like that Smiley
802  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2016, 04:04:50 PM
monero pump is getting serious...

+47% in 24h
+183% in 72h

and keep pushing. Finally it´s working

Much jubilation throughout Reptilia's Krypto Kingdom.

803  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Where do Bitcoins Came from? on: February 13, 2016, 03:33:21 PM
Out of curiosity I just thought where do bitcoins came from??
They're mined, currently at a rate of 25 BTC every 10 minutes. In other words, "printed out of thin air" Cheesy

Out of curiosity I just thought where do bitcoins came from??
Are you at all curious where the US Dollar comes from?
...

Everyone knows that fiat toilet paper is printed out of thin air. Just like BTC Smiley


You compare apples and oranges here, the 25 BTC every 10 minutes is provably fair mechanism how the total of 21 Million Bitcoin gets disributed over time. How would you distribute 21 Million of Bitcoins otherwise than slowly releasing Bitcoins to those who secure Bitcoin security by mining until all 21 Million Bitcoins are distributed Huh

Not talking about fairness here, merely stating facts: BTC, like USD, is printed out of thin air.
As far as fair distribution, the question is equally valid for fiat: how would you fairly distribute it?
inb4 give it all to me: NO.
804  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin core value? - miners will switch to Bitcoin Classic on: February 13, 2016, 03:19:03 PM
Admitting that node count is irrelevant kills the biggest argument against increasing the blocksize Undecided
The number of nodes over a longer period of time is relevant. Node count as a metric used for 'debating' is irrelevant. You can't properly measure the actual number of nodes and the number can be faked. Your attempts at trolling won't work.

Nonsense. Number of non-mining nodes (call them what they are: wallets) is irrelevant to Bitcoin security.

Completely wrong. This implies that the entire network could be comprised of SPV nodes that trust a small, centralized group (miners) regarding the validity of the blockchain. That is not a trustless system at all.
More nonsense, it doesn't. Am assuming that your inference process works something like this:
  1. You claim that the hundreds of padlocks thrown about on our lawn help secure our house.
  2. I disagree, and point out that the padlocks littering our lawn add nothing to our security.
  3. From this, you infer that I'm saying that our house is secure without those padlocks.
That's flawed reasoning. I've never suggested that Bitcoin is either "a trustless system" or secure, merely that non-mining nodes don't *add* anything to security.

Quote
It means that miners can level endless attacks on the entire userbase, from double-spending to transaction censorship.
Yes, they could, if that happens to be in their calculated best interest. Non-mining nodes (wallets) prevent this only as far as being ...you guessed it, wallets. You can rely on your wallet for making sure the correct ruleset is being followed. If you chose to rely on other_nodes (SPV wallet), or other people (web wallet), that's called trust.

Quote
This situation is analogous to banking customers (the bitcoin userbase) depending solely on central banks (miners) to uphold the integrity of the system. It doesn't work in the real world and it won't work in bitcoin.
Your level of participation/("say") in Bitcoin is proportional to your hashrate. The only voice BTC holders have is the market: You may [try to] sell when things don't go your way. Again, running non-mining nodes offers you nothing above verifying transactions for yourself (again, used as your wallet).
Quote
Non-mining users and miners have competing incentives. Miners are only concerned with profit -- historical attacks (withholding, double-spend, tx censoring) support that.
Yes, something that's often glossed over. But non-mining nodes are impotent -- if only [for the sake of simplifying the argument] because "bad," competing nodes could be trivially/inexpensively created.
The only checks on miners' incentives to attack other miners or users are 1) other miners (who might control enough computing power to prevent computing power based attacks) and 2) non-mining nodes (who might control enough nodes to prevent Sybil attacks).
But how do you keep missing something which seems so self-evident: non-mining nodes could be created by anyone, including the miners they're meant to keep in check.
Quote
It doesn't reduce centralization, only serves to obfuscate it.

By definition, nodes reduce centralization.
By definition of ...what?
Quote
Since every node must receive and process every transaction in every block, they are the "peers" in the p2p network. They are what gives meaning to the word "decentralization." If miners (a much more centralized group than non-mining nodes) control all nodes, then the entire userbase is at the mercy of a group that can collude against them.
Ahh, I see, on a purely technical level. So if I run 5000 nodes, I become 1/2 the userbase & Bitcoin becomes x2 as "decentralized." GG.
Quote
That the number of nodes, or a given proportion of nodes, can be obfuscated in the short term has nothing to do with that. It doesn't matter that you can't have a clear picture of the node software people are running, nor of their intentions....what matters is that without peers, bitcoin becomes a network based on trust.
But it already is! Gah.

Edit, TL;DR: Yes, Bitcoin would be more secure if every wallet was a full node. It would be more secure still if every wallet also hashed. This is not the case, nor is it likely to be. We rely on (trust) multiple middlemen, from BitPay to exchanges, and trust the people we transact with to actually send us something in return for the bits we send them. Number of non-mining nodes is irrelevant.
805  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Where do Bitcoins Came from? on: February 13, 2016, 02:24:54 PM
Out of curiosity I just thought where do bitcoins came from??

Are you at all curious where the US Dollar comes from?
...

Everyone knows that fiat toilet paper is printed out of thin air. Just like BTC Smiley
806  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2016, 01:33:03 PM
^^
This is a joke, correct? https://21.co/learn/grid-computing-with-bitcoin-micropayments/#view-channel-status-and-the-deposit-transaction

Edit, your own link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/45inzs/true_micropayments_with_bitcoin/czyav45
Quote
Bitcore's implementation is great, but it's fairly low level. You need to manually do things like this:

assert(consumer.validateRefund(messageFromProvider));
sendToProvider(consumer.incrementPaymentBy(400 * SATOSHIS));
sendToProvider(consumer.incrementPaymentBy(4 * BITS));

Our implementation does cover that low-level use case with both a library and a corresponding command line tool.

However, what we are really focused on is a higher-level use case - namely, making micropayments easy. You'll have to decide for yourself whether we accomplished that, but here's some sample code that sets up a little payment channels capable server:

import datetime
import flask
from two1.lib.wallet import Wallet
from two1.lib.bitserv.flask import Payment

app = flask.Flask(__name__)
payment = Payment(app, Wallet())

@app.route('/current-time')
@payment.required(50)
def current_time():
    return str(datetime.datetime.now())

if __name__ == "__main__":
    app.run(host="0.0.0.0", port=5000, debug=True)

The payment.required line is the key bit that charges 50 satoshis per request. Assuming that server is running on localhost at port 5000, here's a corresponding client:

from two1.lib.wallet import Wallet
from two1.lib.bitrequests import ChannelRequests

requests = ChannelRequests(Wallet())
response = requests.get("http://localhost:5000/current-time")
print(response.text)

All the payment channel and 402 logic is thus handled in the background and you can just request the URL like a standard HTTP-accessible resource -- so long as your local wallet has a nonzero Bitcoin balance to set up the initial deposit transaction. We do think this allows you to program at a somewhat higher level of abstraction as you'd otherwise have to implement all that logic on top of the low-level stuff. See for example this tutorial where we show how to set up a simple grid computer that rents out read/write access for bitcoin.

Pro tip: "small restaurants" don't typically code their own payment solutions. Margie isn't even entirely comfortable with setting compiler flags.
807  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2016, 01:20:22 PM
Meanwhile ... 21 releases better code using the new CLTV opcode to setup a micro-payments channel to dramatically increase capacity with no need for a blocksize limit increase, and no added network tradoffs. Works with any device and free to use.
Caveat: "to allow high frequency Bitcoin-based microtransactions between any pair of 21 Bitcoin Computers," true P2P, i.e between 2 PiTatoes Cheesy


The Decentralizationing!
This is misleading. They are referring to High frequency micro transactions. a small business like a restaurant could have a micro transaction tab setup without any 21 Bitcoin Computers. This is free code that works with any device.

Not misleading at all. The code is for PiTatoes. "... soon, you’ll be able to download a free client that makes this work between any pair of devices."
In Bitcoin, SoonTM = 2 WeeksTM = Hang tight, sucker.

As far as a "small business like a restaurant could have a micro transaction tab setup without any 21 Bitcoin Computers," just lol. (As long as their customers are using BTC (1 in a million)) * (as long their customers are running 21inc client) = snowball's chance in hell Cheesy

>trolls and agent provocateurs
808  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin round table on: February 13, 2016, 01:05:53 PM
...
Tl;dr: I'd say that you just can't solve it in '3 days' and especially not right now. If you had asked me this 1 year earlier, then raising the block size limit would be my final answer (most likely).

If only someone warned us about this blocksize thingy 1 year ago & maybe proposed "raising the block size limit"...
809  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2016, 12:50:05 PM
Meanwhile ... 21 releases better code using the new CLTV opcode to setup a micro-payments channel to dramatically increase capacity with no need for a blocksize limit increase, and no added network tradoffs. Works with any device and free to use.
Caveat: "to allow high frequency Bitcoin-based microtransactions between any pair of 21 Bitcoin Computers," true P2P, i.e between 2 PiTatoes Cheesy
810  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2016, 12:46:32 PM

Whelp, Core's winning (they got a knife Shocked)
811  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2016, 06:18:21 PM
...
Excellent. nLockTime

Now I can give bitcoins to my nieces and nephews with a lock on them (their parents) spending it before they turn 18.

nLockTime -- Bitcoin's killer app.
812  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin round table on: February 12, 2016, 06:01:59 PM
...
Even a teenager can build a computer using 3000 components.


>newfangled breadboard
>not manstyle wire wrap
Peasant.
813  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2016, 05:32:57 PM
...
I think you make yourself look mildly silly when trying to 'refute' an article of that nature. It was not meant to stand up to scrutiny, just to look credible for long enough to make an impact.  No point in arguing the specifics of the law - they are probably correct per se.

Its best to just sit back, point to it and laugh uncontrollably.  Preferably into the authors face after a golf classic.

Yeah, but that's what's cool about Bitcoin: If some guy, apropos of nothing, blogs about being a little teapot, short and stout, he'll be:
Accused of being a statist shill/asked "who is paying you"/chastised for being unhep to the disruptive technology that is Our Bitcoin/told that blogchain technology will make teapots obsolete.

OK miner cowards, if you don't like Bitcoin Classic, how about a good old fashioned crash?  I think you'll find overhead resistance to a pump may be rather more than you are expecting.
I think they're all partying, Chinese Kwanzaa...
814  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin core value? - miners will switch to Bitcoin Classic on: February 12, 2016, 04:57:48 PM
Admitting that node count is irrelevant kills the biggest argument against increasing the blocksize Undecided
The number of nodes over a longer period of time is relevant. Node count as a metric used for 'debating' is irrelevant. You can't properly measure the actual number of nodes and the number can be faked. Your attempts at trolling won't work.

Nonsense. Number of non-mining nodes (call them what they are: wallets) is irrelevant to Bitcoin security. It doesn't reduce centralization, only serves to obfuscate it.
815  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin core value? - miners will switch to Bitcoin Classic on: February 12, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
I'm getting bored by those node proof images.
Nodes dont mean much as one can fire up amazon web services and launch 1000 nodes of bitcoin XT / classic or core for a nominal fee.
We all here know this.
Hashing power is what counts!

Admitting that node count is irrelevant kills the biggest argument against increasing the blocksize Undecided
816  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin core value? - miners will switch to Bitcoin Classic on: February 12, 2016, 04:00:48 PM
Bitcoin Classic is already dead, I don't understand how some people are still acting as if they are going to hardfork:
...

Yo Girlfriend, Classic's bangin'!



https://coin.dance/nodes
817  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2016, 03:52:02 PM

I like that it leads with catty insinuations...
Quote
I would be interested to know whether Friedberg developed these interpretations while pursuing client work, or if he and his firm are just really into Bitcoin. I have to assume the former, since I am hearing rumors that some of the competing Bitcoin development teams are attempting to use lawyers to stop, or at least chill, the actions of others.
And ends with
Quote
In summary, I believe I have fully refuted all of Friedberg’s perspectives on these matters. It’s sad that the legal world is so behind when it comes to Bitcoin.
In conclusion, I belie I have fully refuted all of Friedberg’s perspectives on these matters, i.e. Libya is a land of contrast. Thank you.
818  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Where do Bitcoins Came from? on: February 12, 2016, 03:18:26 PM
Out of curiosity I just thought where do bitcoins came from??
They're mined, currently at a rate of 25 BTC every 10 minutes. In other words, "printed out of thin air" Cheesy
...
Just imagine you own 10 bitcoins and it's valued $400 per bitcoin now... if the total supply change, that value will go down, because more bitcoins will be
entering the supply.
As a holder of 10BTC, you have no say in the system. You can only vote with your feet -- by trying to sell your 10 BTC.
Miners mine BTC, and sell it. Their interests are not necessarily aligned with the holders of BTC. For instance, if they could double their block reward, and by doing so devalue BTC by 45%, it would be in their [pragmatic] self-interest to do so (BTC will be worth 45% less, but they'd make twice as much of it).
819  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2016, 03:15:50 PM
uhmmm what does that mean that blocks are 0 per cent full??? also i cant wait for the price growth i hope it will happen soon

Just what it looks like: an empty block. Miners aren't obligated to include any transactions. Not a bug, it's a feature. The invisible hand will take care of everything  Smiley
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/11307/why-did-this-empty-transaction-block-get-awarded-25-bitcoins
820  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2016, 01:48:40 PM
http://www.riddellwilliams.com/blog/articles/post/hard-fork-conspiracy-treacherous

Quote
The current proposed “hard fork” replacement software seems at first blush to be a reasonable way to solve Bitcoin’s growth issues. However, due to the lack of consensus of applicable Bitcoin network participants, the enactment would create serious legal consequences for the creators of the new replacement software, unless the creators adhere to the rules of MSB registration and compliance.

"Bitcoin Classic and BitcoinXT (meaning in this case the new resulting currency itself rather than the software) would likely be considered by FinCEN to be a new convertible virtual currency."

Only if thermos runs FinCen, otherwise no.
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