-153°C is the minimum temperature registered on Mars, it doesn't mean it gets that cold everywhere, in the equater the trempreture is more earth like that you might think.
This was answered, Atmosphere when it comes to meteorites won't make much difference, earth attract more and gives more kinetic energy to the incoming meteorites, and since we observe Mars and had probes and orbiters around it there was way more meteorites that impacted earth than on Mars.
Copying your plan? I didn't even read it, but as you mentioned your plan has some issues, like the soil on Artanctica is 4km deep and to how deep you think you need your base to be built under to be adiabatic? how much would it cost? as for Mars just use an available cave, or use a 3D printer if you don't want to dig to built your own habitat, this plan was presented 3 decades ago by Dr Robert Zubrin, he didn't just present Ideas, but a whole plan presenting everything, from risk to cost. so no not copying your plan.
Getting to Mars and getting the material needed to Mars is the biggest problem in the equation, while when it comes to Artanctica that's a none issue, yet why there isn't a permanent scientific station to this day? while scientist runs whenever it is winter, the scientific research there is of such importance, from meteorological studies and ozone hole studies to, underground sealed lakes like the Vostok and what's not, (btw scientist had to leave because of winter just at the edge of it !)
As for gravity it's not much lower it is indeed lower but we aren't talking about the moon here we are talking about Mars which has around 38% of earth Gravity, which is easily negated with the heavy space suites, Gravity would be a problem getting to Mars on zero gravity not being there in a lower gravity that you can negate the effect.
Like I said before building a an a floating Island in international water is the most possible and cheapest plan to do
Yeah, sure it can get quite hot during the summers, day time. But the lack of martian atmosphere makes the temperatures vary a lot. The average on Mars is about −55 °C. You didn't even read the plan, but still you criticize it? Good job. How deep i'd need to build our base? It could be just below surface. As long as the isolation is good it doesn't matter. How much would this cost? I have no idea. I didn't even come up with it until yesterday, lol! Build your base using a 3D-printer? Seriously? Do you know how much that would cost? He came up with the plan 3 decades ago? By that time the Soviet union was still a country, and most people had never even touched a computer. We know a lot more about the conditions on Mars now. Yes, getting to Mars would be a gigantic problem. That would cost billions just to develop the Spacecraft that would get you there. And then of course you'd need it to carry all materials needed for you to start a colony on a new planet. That would cost an unthinkable amount of money. Also, FYI there are permanent research centers on Antarctica. And that argument doesn't even make sense anyway. I could as well ask "Why are there no permanent research centers on Mars?". Lets not either forget that it's not that uncommon with massive dust storms on Mars, lasting up to a few weeks. During those you would not be able to produce any electricity from solar panels So you would wear heavy space suites all day long? That doesn't even matter. None knows what effects the "38% of earth" gravity would have on humans. It might be enough for the human body to not suffer heavy muscle loss and bone demineralization, or it might not. It's also very unclear if it would be possible to breed the next generation of humans whilst on Mars because of the same reasons. A floating island would not be the easiest, but it's the most realistic. I mean, it's not hard to dig even if the ground is frozen, and then it would just be the building part left. It's not that hard. However the world would probably get quite mad if we did so, and therefore the floating island would be the better option. The Mars thing you talk about however is completely unrealistic (for now, atleast). daaamnn how do ships shipping stuff handle these waves? if they can, how couldn't we?  other then that, couldn't we just drill the ice downwards and use the ice as isolation from the wind and place ourselves there? If they're hit by those monster waves they usually don't make it. Those ships are designed to ship some stuff and keep afloat. It's not a very pleasant experience for the ones onboard either. If we want an island that can support a bigger population we'd have to take much bigger precautions. I mean, what if the island doesn't make it? Just think of the headlines "Breaking news: 10000 dead in Bitcoin island catastrophe", that's not what we want is it? that's way I said a place like near the Moroccan shore a strategic place between America, EU and Africa where there is almost no storms, and you have everything near by, including continental internet Fiber optics
We cannot place it within the EEZ, so that's not an option. We aren't getting to Mars, or building a permanent base on Artactica anytime soon
For such plan, you need to built a floating Island somewhere, and then pull it international Seas and plant it there, like we do with Oil platforms (this is something we already have the know how to
Atleast not Mars. Antarctica would be very possible with some money and devotion. Placing it on such deep waters as in the Atlantic ocean is not possible atm. It's just way too deep. |
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it would really be interesting to see what would happen and how would other nations react to this Yeah, I think they'd get pretty upset, but thanks to their own treaty, they can't do anything about it! Another, 3rd option would be to build this floating island earlier mentioned, and place it in the unclaimed waters in Marie Byrd land, and solve the problems that rough seas brings. if we were to build a floating island why would we place it near Antarctica when we could place it in international waters with a much better climate? Yeah, but then we'd have the problems with rough seas. Remember that the waves usually gets between 7-15 meters during storms, however, there have been waves reported as big as 30(!) meters. Good luck having a floating island that can resist that kind of waves. If we place it in Antarctica we'd have protection from such, and we could have our perfect winter wonderland outside our door. Inside the island it would be kinda hot, preferably tropical climate, and outside we'd have a really cold, snowy landscape. We'd attract both tourists that wants a nice hot climate, and those who wants to go skiing. Win-win situation!  what about the possibility of going to an uninhabited part of a 3rd world nation and starting fresh?
What Kiki112 said. |
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Antarctica is impossible from a technological stand point (energy, temperatures and seasons), unless of course you want to live with Hitler and his scret base in antarctica, maybe he can take you in his Hanebu to the dark side of the moon (which is not dark actually)
But anyways if you can set a permanent base in Arctanctica, setting one in Mars shouldn't be an issue (apart from getting stuff to Mars )
Antarctica is not impossible at all. Mars would not be impossible either, but it would be a lot harder. Apart from getting materials to Mars, there would be problems with food and water supplies. And of course, we must not forget the problem with oxygen. And the risk of meteor crashes is much higher thanks to its thin atmosphere. Oh, the atmosphere would also be a big problem since it doesn't stop much of the cosmic radiation. So simply, it would be a LOT harder. So, lets not mix apples and pears, shall we? It is impossible, 6 month of night during polar winter at -70°C with nothing that can give you supply, you'll need a closed heated ecosystem to grow you own food which requires tons of energy You can grow food on Mars and water is abundant on Mars and you can create a micro ecosystem CO2 is abundant in Mars plants will creat oxygene trough photosynthesis as there is abundant sunlight you just a green house to creat decent pressure, and yes you'll need space suite on Mars but you can creat oxygen being trough plants or water and air recycling and co2, as for meteorite, earth has more gravity and thus it is bound to attract more meteorites than Mars, also Atmosphere only burn small meteorites while for big ones it either makes them explode or split which is more devastating as for cosmic radiation is a non issue if the habitat is underground Read my suggestion again. The nation would be build under ground. We'd have a closed ecosystem. The walls would be isolated. We'd be self-sufficient. You can grow food on mars, and there is water there as well. But you'd still need energy to heat it up. Remember that it can be as cold as −153 °C during night times. Earth may attract more meteorites than mars, but the martian atmosphere is a lot thiner than the earths. And basically you're just copying my plan, but instead want to apply it on mars. It would be much easier to build it on earth. Also, if we fuck up on our colony, we'll get help from the outside world. You won't. Also, the gravity is much lower on Mars, and we don't know how the effects on the human body in such low gravity long term. |
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it would really be interesting to see what would happen and how would other nations react to this Yeah, I think they'd get pretty upset, but thanks to their own treaty, they can't do anything about it! Another, 3rd option would be to build this floating island earlier mentioned, and place it in the unclaimed waters in Marie Byrd land, and solve the problems that rough seas brings. |
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yeah, but low efficiency of the solar panels because of not so many sunny hours.. we would need a larger investment but it's worth it since we'll be saving a lot because we're not building our own island it's not only -70° but 6 months nights and also blizzard no supply can reach you for over half a year and no infrastructure there
Yes, but six months of night also means six months of day. Sure, during that 6 months night the solar panels will not produce any electricity, but thanks to the power buoys and wind turbines we might have enough anyway. We could also produce biogas to use if we don't produce enough with our renewable systems, since it is hard to store the excessive energy for a time as long as six months. It's always good to have a backup system. seems a bit too expensive there isn't enough sunlight to produce a lot of electricity I think even the sun is there.. I'm pretty sure it is. The biggest problem would be where to place it. It'd have to be placed in an "Antarctic oasis", an area that's not covered with snow or ice. However, all of those "oases" I can find is placed in territory claimed by other nations. The other option would be to build it inside a mountain in unclaimed territory, but that'd be to destroy the antarctic nature + rock is not very fertile. So, that leaves us with only one option, to build in claimed territory. However, since most countries in the world does not recognize any claims on antarctica that should not be a problem. The country that claims the area we'll build on will not be able to do anything either, since military operations are strictly forbidden. Here's a list of possible places for this settlement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_oasis#Geography |
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yeah, but low efficiency of the solar panels because of not so many sunny hours.. we would need a larger investment but it's worth it since we'll be saving a lot because we're not building our own island it's not only -70° but 6 months nights and also blizzard no supply can reach you for over half a year and no infrastructure there
Yes, but six months of night also means six months of day. Sure, during that 6 months night the solar panels will not produce any electricity, but thanks to the power buoys and wind turbines we might have enough anyway. We could also produce biogas to use if we don't produce enough with our renewable systems, since it is hard to store the excessive energy for a time as long as six months. It's always good to have a backup system. |
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Antarctica is impossible from a technological stand point (energy, temperatures and seasons), unless of course you want to live with Hitler and his scret base in antarctica, maybe he can take you in his Hanebu to the dark side of the moon (which is not dark actually)
But anyways if you can set a permanent base in Arctanctica, setting one in Mars shouldn't be an issue (apart from getting stuff to Mars )
Antarctica is not impossible at all. Mars would not be impossible either, but it would be a lot harder. Apart from getting materials to Mars, there would be problems with food and water supplies. And of course, we must not forget the problem with oxygen. And the risk of meteor crashes is much higher thanks to its thin atmosphere. Oh, the atmosphere would also be a big problem since it doesn't stop much of the cosmic radiation. So simply, it would be a LOT harder. So, lets not mix apples and pears, shall we? |
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they will not allow us Article IV § 2 states: “No acts or activities taking place while the present Treaty is in force shall constitute a basis for asserting, supporting or denying a claim to territorial sovereignty in Antarctica. No new claim, or enlargement of an existing claim, to territorial sovereignty shall be asserted while the present Treaty is in force”
That only applies to countries that has signed the treaty. Which we won't. Anyway, non of the nations have the right to deny our claim either. Also, if they disagree with our decision they can't do anything since according to the treaty, no military activity is allowed on Antarctica. I don't see what could possibly stop us? (except for money) hmm you made a point there but it's Antarctica, it's -70C who would want to live here? altough, yeah, nice temperature so our miners don't overheat but we'll have a hard time acquiring free electricity In the coldest place on Antarctica the average temperature is -55°C. The costal areas however is much warmer. During the winters the average temperatures is around −18 °C, while during the summers it's about 0°C, and sometimes even more. Who would want to live there? Well, people who feels this is a cool concept and people who have no future in their current countries would probably at least consider it for example. And no, we would not have to worry about miners overheating!  The electricity, as I've said earlier, we'll get from solar power, wind turbines and power buoys, and with the right amount of them they should be able to support us. |
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they will not allow us Article IV § 2 states: “No acts or activities taking place while the present Treaty is in force shall constitute a basis for asserting, supporting or denying a claim to territorial sovereignty in Antarctica. No new claim, or enlargement of an existing claim, to territorial sovereignty shall be asserted while the present Treaty is in force”
That only applies to countries that has signed the treaty. Which we won't. Anyway, non of the nations have the right to deny our claim either. Also, if they disagree with our decision they can't do anything since according to the treaty, no military activity is allowed on Antarctica. I don't see what could possibly stop us? (except for money) |
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So I'v seen a few threads about building a bitcoin island But the only territory that is unclaimed except for Antartica territories is Bir Tawil It's basically sand, nothing else BUTHigh temperatures, plenty of sunny time means paradise for the crypto community Why? Setting up solar panels with maximum usage (so much sunny hours ) and generating free electricity to build massive space for mining Possibility of creating a cex.io like website and selling mining GH/s etc. to acquire money for this project What do you guys think? 2060 km2, a lot more then a 10sq km2 island to build or a 0.2 sq km2 island to purchase For reference Bir Tawil (arabic) means long (water) well the zone is unclaimed officialy but there are soldiers in the region. Solar panels is not a good solution due to the temperature, but Solar thermal power is (better than solar panel imo) plus I'm not sure about this the region should have great wind tunnels so Wind power should be another solution. but there are some other serious issues, like pirates that have quite the numbers in the region, also it is a very instable and poor region (Sudan is in the middle of a civile war with armed groups and separatist and what's not. The best option for is to built an Island in international waters, near in a strategic zone, I think near the shore of Morocco is not a bad choice, as you can get the work force easly, you are in the middle of major fiber optic lines (between EU/Africa and the US (no NSA Control)) , the weather is not bad, and you can get plenty of energy being it, solar, wind, and hydraulic using ocean currents) the other option would be the pacific, but it doesn't have the same advantages hm, interesting I understand the danger but there is no other territory with such volume we could take that's why it's so appealing Antarctica is bigger, safer AND we can take it! It's a bit cold though... |
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they could be okay mostly because we would be under their authority and would import everything from them that is what they need, it's benefiting them why would they refuse? yeah, but the greek island is 0.2sq km while Bir Tawil is 2060 sq km but if you insist.. As stated in all these threads, nations rarely accept someone stealing their territory. And this area is not only claimed by one nation, but by two. And it's quite big as well! So, honestly, I think the greek island idea is a lot easier to go through with! it's not claimed by any nation rather then 2! if any of them wanted it they would of taken it by now.. No, because if one of them seriously attempt to take it, it will unarguably lead to a full scale war in that area. And neither Egypt or Sudan wants that. |
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they could be okay mostly because we would be under their authority and would import everything from them that is what they need, it's benefiting them why would they refuse? yeah, but the greek island is 0.2sq km while Bir Tawil is 2060 sq km but if you insist.. As stated in all these threads, nations rarely accept someone stealing their territory. And this area is not only claimed by one nation, but by two. And it's quite big as well! So, honestly, I think the greek island idea is a lot easier to go through with! |
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I dont think the location is ideal.
the only unclaimed location other then this is Antartica and don't think we would have enough sunny hours for solar panels there Well, to be fair it is claimed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WestarcticaHowever, I highly doubt the guy who claims it will do much if we claim it as well. How about building a few earthships on antarctica? Since it's solid ground there would be possible to place the nation under ground! Solar panels would work if we were able to store the electricity generated during the summers (around december) since antarctica has midnight sun for a time every year. interesting but isn't Bir Tawil more ideal? it's definitely hoter and therefore generating more electricity besides, it's closer to civilisation and we could gain some tourists we could be in some sort of a relationship with Egypt like Vatican is with Italy so we can have free travel between our countries and therefore having tourists that come to Egypt visit us and Egypt will have tourists that visit us to visit them No. Bir Tawil would just be stupid to claim. That would be way to dangerous. Also we'd have problems with getting water. Antarctica might not be ideal, but it should be possible if we had enough money. At least we wouldn't have any problems with water supplies thanks to all the ice, growing could be done under gigantic glass roofs, or simply just under fluorescent lamps. The soil needed we could import or take from the antarctic ground (I don't know how fertile it is though). Energy could be created using solar panels, PowerBuoys and wind turbines. The buildings would also need to be heavy isolated. I think that would be the best option for us. Why would it be stupid? If we got permission from the Egyptian goverment why not? Reasons why Egypt could allow us to do this 1.We would promise to build no army 2.They would have military acess to our country 3.We would have almost no borders (as Vatican with Italy) and therfore tourists that come visit us will definitely go visit Egyptian spots making us both prosper 4.We would only have economical independence, everything rest we would leave for Egypt So basically we would be an expansion of their country but the only thing se would request is economical independence meaning no taxes, bitcoin as official currency etc. 5.We would state that our country will be eternally greatful for their generosity And will always do only what is good to enhance our brotherhood 6. And one of the most important Almost everything we need we would import from them making them prosper even more (such as water,food,etc.) This isn't planned as a big nation but more of a few people living there and getting rich from mining power I don't think neither Egypt or Sudan would be willing to let us have the territory. And there most of the plan fails, since both of those nations are willing to kill any occupiers. Why don't we go with the "buy a Greek island" plan and place some miners there? Floating island on international waters. The problem with that would be how to keep the floating island stable. International waters can be quite harsh. |
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Yeah, but why would we care about the UN in this particular matter? While we build it we could claim it was for scientific purposes, and then there would be nothing they could do about it.
Also, antarctica has some dry spots where it would be ideal to build the nation.
They will send in the UN peacekeepers and you will be jailed for the rest of your life for destroying the delicate ecology of Antarctica. So, unless you want to go to prison, I would advice you to stay out. Short answer: 1. No, they wouldn't. 2. No, I wouldn't. 3. No, it wouldn't. Long answer: 1. No they would not send peacekeepers. First of all it's not illegal to claim antarctica, however a few nations (for example the US) will not recognize any claims. That however doesn't make it illegal to build a nation there. The Antarctic Treaty System (ATS) only applies to nations which have signed the treaty, which we will not (since that could take away our own right to our own existence). 2 and 3. They would not jail me from destroying anything. We would not destroy the ecology, the ice covers would still be there, and we would not use any fossil fuels and such that could contaminate the surface. It's not illegal to destroy the ecology of antarctica anyway, even while doing so would be completely unnecessary and stupid. |
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No. Bir Tawil would just be stupid to claim. That would be way to dangerous. Also we'd have problems with getting water.
Antarctica might not be ideal, but it should be possible if we had enough money. The UN prohibits human settlement in Antarctica, with the exception of research stations. So you'll have a very tough time establishing a colony in the Antarctic ice sheet. Yeah, but why would we care about the UN in this particular matter? While we build it we could claim it was for scientific purposes, and then there would be nothing they could do about it. Also, antarctica has some dry spots where it would be ideal to build the nation. |
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Sooo, have you decided where you will place it yet? Just so I know, and I'll come help building the nation for a few weeks during my summer holiday!
I don't think we have? Feel free to come with suggestions! What would our budget be? A few million dollars tops. We'd need to raise the money first, so the budget would be quite low. That Greek island you earlier mentioned sounds good to me. Not that expensive, and quite big. At least it's big enough to support a smaller population. the 5km2 one or the 0.2km2 one? The 0.2km2 one. The price for the island is good, and the island is also big enough to hold a small population. And since we're on a low budget we have to take what would be the most realistic alternative. Also, the bigger the island is, the harder it will become getting away with declaring it a nation. |
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It is simply an academic research of my study. Thanks a lot for your help.
All questions need to be answered in order to finish the questionnaire, many thanks.
Well, that's the thing, I did answer all the questions. (Even a few that only had options but no question!) |
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Love > Money
I've had many more chances to make money than truly special relationships.
This. no way, once you find a girl that doesn't want you for your money it's not worth to lose her for money..
This. And also, if your partner would agree to do it, then there's probably something wrong with your relationship. |
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will your site accept BTC as a payment method ?
Why else would the site be called "bitcoinbikers"? |
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I dont think the location is ideal.
the only unclaimed location other then this is Antartica and don't think we would have enough sunny hours for solar panels there Well, to be fair it is claimed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WestarcticaHowever, I highly doubt the guy who claims it will do much if we claim it as well. How about building a few earthships on antarctica? Since it's solid ground there would be possible to place the nation under ground! Solar panels would work if we were able to store the electricity generated during the summers (around december) since antarctica has midnight sun for a time every year. interesting but isn't Bir Tawil more ideal? it's definitely hoter and therefore generating more electricity besides, it's closer to civilisation and we could gain some tourists we could be in some sort of a relationship with Egypt like Vatican is with Italy so we can have free travel between our countries and therefore having tourists that come to Egypt visit us and Egypt will have tourists that visit us to visit them No. Bir Tawil would just be stupid to claim. That would be way to dangerous. Also we'd have problems with getting water. Antarctica might not be ideal, but it should be possible if we had enough money. At least we wouldn't have any problems with water supplies thanks to all the ice, growing could be done under gigantic glass roofs, or simply just under fluorescent lamps. The soil needed we could import or take from the antarctic ground (I don't know how fertile it is though). Energy could be created using solar panels, PowerBuoys and wind turbines. The buildings would also need to be heavy isolated. I think that would be the best option for us. |
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