Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile

[Nemo1024]

Holland presented a report on MH-17 shoot-down. As expected, it did everything to present the party that has the most to lose from this false flag as the guilty one, and did not address such trivialities as observable facts. For example: if the plane was hit by BUK, all it's passengers would have been instantly killed by shrapnel. How come many had time to pull oxygen masks over their faces? Why were only pilots' bodies riddled with holes? The plane would not have been airworthy after a BUK impact. How come it could fly (glide?) for so long after it lost air contact inside the Ukraine-controlled territory.

https://www.rt.com/news/318457-mh17-report-plane-crash/

https://www.rt.com/news/318536-mh17-investigation-dutch-report/

Dutch experts say the rocket must have been shot from the DNR-controlled village Snezhnoje (btw, it means "Snowy" in Russian). But Almaz-Antey, the weapons maker, conducted several simulations, which show that the rocket could only have been launched from Ukrainian territory...
http://regnum.ru/news/accidents/1989971.html



MH17 downed by outdated BUK missile fired from Kiev-controlled area – Defense system manufacturer
https://www.rt.com/news/318531-mh17-experiment-almaz-antey/

Two full-scale experiments by the Almaz-Antey defense company aimed at recreating the MH17 crash conclude the missile that downed the flight was an old BUK model fired from a Ukraine-controlled area, contesting the preliminary theory by Dutch investigators.

Two detonations of Buk missiles near aluminum panels and the cockpits of decommissioned Ilyushin Il-86 passenger airliners in July and October have produced what the company calls conclusive results.

In the course of the international investigation, "the company was provided with three T-shaped strike elements, which looked like 9M38M1 [model] strike elements, which caused specialists to make their conclusion on the missile type in June," said Almaz Antey’s CEO.

See the video here:

BUK producer detonates missiles next to pilot’s cockpit in real-life MH17 experiment (VIDEO)
https://www.rt.com/news/318505-almaz-antey-video-simulation/

Almaz-Antey carried out two experiments simulating explosions near MH17. They determined the missile was an older BUK model 9M38 fired from an area under Ukrainian forces’ control, contesting the preliminary findings of the Dutch-led investigation.

[RodeoX]

I thought it was an air-to-air missile? Don't change propaganda mid stream, it looks even less believable.

[Blawpaw]

http://www.nst.com.my/node/20925
US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft

KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.

 This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.

Who are these local investigators and who is paying them? this can be the beginning of a new plot with serious implications...

[Nemo1024]

I thought it was an air-to-air missile? Don't change propaganda mid stream, it looks even less believable.

No one is changing the "propaganda". I still think the plane was hit with cannon fire and an AA rocket. Russian authorities may be conceding to the Western view of BUK in trying to find a compromise, acceptable to the West. That way the Western BUK-propaganda would not be looking as foolish. Russia has done it in the past - went along with a partial lie to save the faces of the Western "partners".

See, for example, independent and exhaustive investigation by Michel Brun of the KAL-007 shoot-down. He found enough hard evidence to pinpoint the location to the west coast of Japan, yet USSR took the blame for it, as if the shoot-down occurred over Sakhalin... All in the name of avoiding WWIII

EDIT: Besides, it's of the secondary importance what destroyed that plane, as long as those who ordered the execution of this atrocity are found and brought to justice.

‘It remains our belief’: US insists rebels downed MH17 with BUK missile, ignores Dutch report
https://www.rt.com/news/318613-usa-rebels-mh17-buk/

Despite a 15-month-long Dutch-led probe not definitively concluding who fired the BUK surface-to-air missile or the precise location from which it originated, the US continues to pursue its “belief” that it was east Ukrainian rebels who downed flight MH17.

The State department spokesman Mark Toner welcomed “the important findings” of the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) presented on Tuesday, briefing journalists that the Dutch report “validated” the US theory that the Malaysia-bound flight carrying nearly 300 passengers was downed “by a BUK surface-to-air missile” from “separatist-controlled territory.”

“The unintelligible babbling we have to read constantly simply aims at, on one hand, confusing, and on the other hand – to form a desired public opinion, which could effectively be called propaganda,” Russia’s Foreign Ministry’s spokesperson said at a media briefing in Moscow.

...

Also, Russia aviation authorities say that the rocket could have only been launched from Zaroshenskoej, which was controlled by Kiev:
https://russian.rt.com/article/123551

And further accuses Netherlands of substituting the evidence - the strike elements of the rocket:
http://www.mk.ru/politics/2015/10/14/rosaviaciya-razgromila-gollandskiy-doklad-po-boingu-mh17.html?

In this article it is pointed out that the fuselage lacks butterfly-shaped holes, characteristic for BUK shrapnel damage, something the Dutch report does not address. So the BUK theory is still, in a way, rejected by the Russian side.

In conclusion, what Russia does here is not propaganda, but science. The West puts forth a hypothesis: "it's BUK's". (USA says it's an axiom ). Russia says, fine, let's do some experiments, like detonating a warhead near an airliner fuselage or calculating where a hypothetical rocket was launched from to match the observed radio (silence) data, and see if experiments strengthen or weaken the hypothesis.

[Nemo1024]

When I read that the report on the downing of the Malaysian airliner over Ukraine was being
put in the hands of the Dutch, I knew that there would be no investigation and no attention to the facts.

And there wasn’t.

I did not intend to write about the report, because Washington’s propaganda has already succeeded, at least in the Western world, in its purpose of laying the blame on Russia. However, the misrepresentation of the Dutch report by Western media, such as NPR, is so outrageous as to make the media the story and not the report.

For example, I just heard NPR’s Moscow correspondent, Corey Flintoff, say that the missile that hit the airliner was fired by Ukrainian separatists who lack the technical ability to operate the system. Therefore, the missile had to have been fired by a Russian.

There is nothing in the Dutch report whatsoever that leads to this conclusion. Flintoff either is
incompetent or lying or he is expressing his view and not the report’s conclusion.

The only conclusion that the report reaches is one that we already knew: if a Buk missile brought down the airliner, it was a Russian-made missile. The Dutch report does not say who fired it.

Indeed, the report places no blame on Russia, but it does place blame on Ukraine for not closing the airspace over the war area. Attorneys have stated in response to the report that families of those killed and the Malaysian airline itself are likely to file lawsuits against Ukraine for negligence.

Of course, there was nothing of this in Flintoff’s report.

As I wrote at the time of the airliner’s destruction, the Western media already had “the-Russians-did-it” story ready the moment the airliner was reported to be shot down. This story was very useful to Washington in hardening its European vassal states into sanctions against Russia, as there was some dissent. What Washington has never explained and the Western media has never asked is: What motive did separatists and Russia have to shoot down a Malaysian airliner?

None whatsoever. The Russian government would never allow such a thing. Putin would have immediately strung up those responsible.

Washington’s story makes no sense whatsoever. Only an idiot could believe it.

What motive did Washington have? Many. The demonization of Russia made it impossible for
European governments to resist or abandon the economic sanctions that Washington is using to
break economic and political relationships between Europe and Russia.

The Russian manufacturer of the Buk missile has proven that if a Buk missile was used, it was an old version that exists only in the Ukraine military. For some years the Russian military has been equipped with a replacement version that has a different signature in its destructive impact. The damage to the Malaysian airliner is inconsistent with the destructive force of the Buk missile in Russian service. The reports were given to the Dutch, but no effort was made to replicate and verify the validity of the tests conducted by the manufacturer of the missile. Indeed, the Dutch report does not even consider whether the airliner was downed by Ukrainian fighter jets. The report is as useless as the 9/11 Commission’s report.

Don’t expect any acknowledgement of this by the Western media, a collection of people who lie for a living.

...

Read more: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/10/13/the-mh-17-report-paul-craig-roberts/

[Nemo1024]

RosAviation named 6 facts pointing to falsehood in the Dutch final report regarding MH-17 shoot-down

Russia's official position is expressed in a letter to the head of the Dutch Security Commission

In the letter these facts are set out in the following way:

- discrepancy between the characteristics of the warhead elements of 9H314M with the ones described in the report
- discrepancy between the holes in the fuselage with the holes that would have been made by an explosion of  the warhead elements of 9H314M
- discrepancy of at least one of the rocket fragments (3rd stage) found at the scene with the fragments that result in the explosion of the warhead part of series 9M38
- discrepancy between the remote radio-detonation algorithm of 9M38 "Buk" with the conditions of the airlines dtrike
- discrepancy between the situation of the rocket in the 3D space as presented in the report, with the actual strike field observed on the fuselage fragments.
- discrepancy between the conclusion of the zone of the launch of the guided rocket that struck the airliner with the technical characteristics and the working principals of 9M38.

[Nemo1024]

Unnoticed sensation!

A Dutch parliamentary told the press that during a closed Dutch Parliamentary hearing of the 22nd of January, it was stated that only Ukraine was capable of shooting down MH-17:

http://regnum.ru/news/polit/2076897.html

[D3ViL]

and finally the truth is that Ukraine shot down the aircraft, and why are they not paying the dues

[srinikethan]

yes...the probe was going on and now it is proved that it was an act of terrorism....many innocent people were killed in the flight...!!

[Nemo1024]

Five Australian families are suing... Russia for... "lack of cooperation" (!) over the MH-17 that got shot down over Ukraine by the Ukrainian forces. They want to get $10 million for each perished relative out of Russia. It is not known if the European Court for Human Rights will accepts the case.

https://russian.rt.com/article/303802-rodstvenniki-zhertv-katastrofy-mh17-podali-isk-v

Anyone who followed the case from the beginning remembers that is was Russia alone that was forthcoming with all the information, which got dutifully ignored by the West, and, moreover, Netherlands, US and Ukraine struck a non-disclosure agreement on any MH-17 findings...

[groll]

Another act of terrorism.  What are these people thinking of?  Don't they have families?  What benefits they will have just by shooting a plane?  Different beliefs, different ideology, whatever it is, it is not right.  Innocent people were the victims.  I can't understand what is on their minds, such full of hatred or just a plain craziness. 

[Nemo1024]

As I said 2 years ago, this is one of those cases, which Russia will not let lei, nor will it let it be forgotten. Russia will continue to bring this case up to the public attention until the perpetrators are identified.

And so it happens. A few days ago Russian Defence declassified radar data, showing that no object approached MH-17 from the position, designated by the Dutch committee as the BUK launch site. Russia also pointed out that Ukraine sits on the similar radar data. What was not said out loud is that USA had a military surveillance satellite over Ukraine at the time of the shoot-down, and is too still keeping the data from it classified.

The latest from the newsfront:

Russian radar data shows no missile attack on MH17 from rebel side, indicates Ukraine involvement
https://www.rt.com/news/360634-mh17-ukraine-radar-data/

Newly discovered raw data picked up by a civilian radar station on the day of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash shows no signs of a missile being fired at the plane from territory controlled by rebels, the Russian military and radar producer said.

The existence of raw data was announced last week by Almaz-Antey, the producer of the Buk missile system. The system is believed by an international investigation to have caused the 2014 crash over Ukraine.

One of Almaz-Antey’s subsidiaries is the producer of the Utyos-T civilian radar station. One such station is deployed near Ust-Donetsky village in western Russia. According to Almaz-Antey, memory chips from that station were replaced in July 2014, shortly after the tragic incident, and were discovered recently. Until now no raw radar data of the situation around MH17 at the time it was destroyed was thought to exist.

The Lianozovsky Electromechanical Plant, the producer of Utyos-T, presented the raw data on Monday at a media briefing in Moscow. The data showed three civilian aircraft in the vicinity, including the MH17. The one closest to it was flying about 30km from the Malaysian Boeing at the time it was shot down.

“The Ust-Donetsky radar picked up no foreign objects near the Malaysian plane which could have caused its destruction,” said Viktor Meshcheryakov, the company's deputy chief radar designer.

This contradicts the scenario maintained by Kiev, under which a Buk missile could have been fired from the rebel-controlled village of Snezhnoye. The missile could have not been picked up by the radar if it had approached from a direction along the line connecting the radar station and the airliner, Meshcheryakov noted.

Gen. Andrey Koban, the head of the Russian Air Forces' radar troops, said the Russian civilian radar easily located an Orlan-10 surveillance drone circling closer to the Russian-Ukrainian border over Russian territory at the time of the incident. A Buk missile would have been easier to detect than the drone, he said.

The Russian military said Ukraine's refusal to publish its radar data, the positions of air defense batteries it had deployed in the area, and communications between MH17 and the Ukrainian traffic controller directing its flight towards the rebel-held areas in eastern Ukraine, made it look suspicious.

“The Ukrainian side has air situation data in the area of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 crash from both civilian and military sources. The fact that Ukraine has not published radar data leads us to the  conjecture that the missile, if it was a Buk, was launched from territory under the control of the Ukrainian military,” the general said.

It resembles the way Ukraine acted in 2001 after shooting down a Russian plane flying from Israel over the Black Sea, a spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry said during the briefing.

The shooting down of Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 in October 2001 claimed 78 lives, but “despite irrefutable facts that put the blame for the Tu-154 crash on the Ukrainian military, [Kiev] refused to take any responsibility,” Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.
...

The passage above is also indicative that the plane may have been shot down by an AA missile...

My hunch is that the data was neither "misplaced" nor does it come from civilian radar. More likely, it was not made public back then in the hopes that hinting at the existence of such data across proper channels would make the perpetrators think twice about pursuing the lie, and because publishing such data back then could have been damaging to the Russian military security. You never show your hand in one go...

As I said above the following is the real reason for publishing this data:

Almaz Antey hands over radar data on MH17 inquiry, Moscow calls for other countries to follow suit
https://www.rt.com/news/360319-almaz-russia-mh17-crash/

...

In its official statement, the company said the data in question is “the so-called initial radar images of the airspace in raw form.” That includes the registration of movements in the airspace over Eastern Ukraine on the day when the Malaysian Boeing went down in the area.

On Thursday, the official representative of the Russian Investigative Committee, Vladimir Markin, announced that Russia will pass this fresh batch of information on the MH17 crash to the Dutch-led international investigators.

The spokesperson for the Russian Foreign Ministry, Maria Zahharova, told journalists on Thursday that the move is crucial, since the information is “awaited by the relatives of the crash victims.”

"The move by the Russian company should become an important and relevant example for all other countries and anyone who has any information in order to understand what happened two years ago in the skies over Ukraine," Zakharova said.

...

Russian radar would’ve spotted missiles east of MH17 crash site — Aerospace Force
http://tass.com/world/902254

Kiev has not so far made public the information on location of its military surface-to-air units Buk on the day of the crash as well as the talks between flight data controllers and radar data

MOSCOW, September 28 /TASS/. The objectivity of conclusions made by an international group for investigating the MH17 Boeing crash is doubtful, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Major-General Igor Konashenkov said.

"We carefully studied today’s statements made by the Dutch Investigation Team, which is investigating the Boeing MH17 crash over Ukraine. The serious conclusions, which have been announced today, require serious arguments and moreover facts," the Russian Defense Ministry spokesman said.

"The data, which the investigation group presented at a briefing on Wednesday, had been taken from two main sources: the Internet and Ukraine’s security services. Therefore, the objectivity of that data and consequently the conclusions made on its basis cannot but be doubtful," Konashenkov stressed.

"For our part, we want a maximum objective investigation, which will help identifying persons who are really responsible for the July 17, 2014 crash. We will continue rendering all the necessary assistance to the investigation," he added.
Russian air defense systems never crossed Ukrainian border

According to Konashenkov, no Russian air defense systems have ever crossed the Ukrainian border.

"No Russian air defense systems, including Buk, have ever crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border. We made a firm statement to that effect immediately after the July 17, 2014 disaster," he said.
Radar data on MH17 flight

 Deputy Chief Designer of the Utyos-T radar station of the Lianozovo Electromechanical Plant Viktor Meshcheryakov said on Wednesday that the radar data on the Ukrainian air space at the time of the MH17 crash made public by Russia recently will be transferred to the Dutch side soon.

"The data will be transferred soon. We’re not dealing with this. They have been transferred to the competent bodies. We are using the copies of these records in this demonstration," he said.

Buk missile producer: JIT probe lacks tech proof, experiments showed MH17 downed from Kiev-held area
https://www.rt.com/news/360950-buk-producer-mh17-jit/

Russian defense ministry doubts objectivity of MH17 crash investigators' report
http://tass.com/politics/902838

Int’l investigators allowed Ukraine to fabricate MH17 evidence – Russia
https://www.rt.com/news/360946-mh17-ukraine-fabricate-evidence/

MH17 shot down by rebels using Buk system brought from Russia – int’l investigators
https://www.rt.com/news/360925-mh17-crash-jit-report/

[birareru1988]

http://www.nst.com.my/node/20925
US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft

KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.

 This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.

Now I know that 247crypto is a Russian Troll. Evidence that was released today recognizes the entire world. Ukraine immediately talked about this. Journalists said, but the official investigation lasted a long time to gather accurate facts.Putin is afraid to be in the Hague that is lying. Impresses politicians. Contains a Department Troll.

[igorokavg13]

That is news from Malaysia.

No news from the Kremlin. Today was published the first report of the independent Commission. Boeing was shot down Russian. But to get them will be difficult, as they don't go there. Say about 100 people involved.

[Xester]

So the mystery was solved.  Another act of terrorism that cannot be inclined to ISIS right?  Since they said it was on Russia.  How come they shot down a passenger plane that easily?  Do not they know that innocent people were riding that plane?  Something to investigate about by both the country, Malaysia and Russia.

[Sex Video Chat VKcams.com]

The proof of Who used the Missile.
Only the "Ukrainian" side have the operative BUK in the Zone of Missile launch.

[Sithara007]

The proof of Who used the Missile.
Only the "Ukrainian" side have the operative BUK in the Zone of Missile launch.

It is very clear, unless you are having a sub-60 IQ. The Ukrainians allowed the passenger jet to fly over Donbass, despite the ongoing civil war. They were just hoping that the rebels will shoot down one of these jets. That didn't happened, and therefore the Ukrainians used a Buk to bring down MH17.

[SameHow]

The proof of Who used the Missile.
Only the "Ukrainian" side have the operative BUK in the Zone of Missile launch.

It is very clear, unless you are having a sub-60 IQ. The Ukrainians allowed the passenger jet to fly over Donbass, despite the ongoing civil war. They were just hoping that the rebels will shoot down one of these jets. That didn't happened, and therefore the Ukrainians used a Buk to bring down MH17.

You're lying! Portable anti-aircraft missiles that Russia has supplied to the Donbass not able to shoot down planes at an altitude of 10km. Why close the sky? Soviets wanted to stage a provocation to bring down the Russian plane but missed and hit the Malaysian. Know it all!