Mt.Gox and void trades: Force Majeure

[beeph]

lol, in this country.. america.. one can sue anyone for any reason at any time.. u just need to convince a judge or jury
Someone once sued mcdonalds for their coffee being too hot.. lot of bored, out of work, lawyers in the US.

So if you really lost money with them i'd find the US entity they transact with and just call a lawyer up in their state and ask for a free consultation.
If you are smart you dont even need a lawyer really you can just do it all yourself and start filing subpoenas with the county clerk for 25$.  It's up to their lawyer to contest your subpoena.

Get a court date set, and subpoena everything you can.

Oh and by the way, I'm sure there were plenty of lawsuits about the flash crash in may.. yer a deluded if u dont think that.

RING RING

-Acme law office, how may i direct you call?

+I need to talk to a lawyer, immediately!

-Please hold.

*pause*

-Hello, how can i help you?

+hello, mr. lawyer man, i gave my internet points(which me and my friends sure do like a whole bunch) to somebody on the internet in a different country that i don't know and he held on to them for 5 days and then gave them back to me, so now I want to sue him. I'm really really smart, so i know i have a case, but i need somebody who knows about all that fancy law stuff to help me out, how about you do this for free and i'll pay you when we win?

*pause*

+hello? mr. lawyer? mr. lawyer, did you hang up on me?!?! I'm suing you!!




If bitcoin was more popular, maybe we'd see this skit on SNL  

I bet you I can sue these guys.. wanna bet?

I bet you can sue them. I bet you can't win. I bet suing them is like making a bet considering if you lose the lawsuit you lose money and if you win the lawsuit you win money. There's your bet for you.

One more bet - I bet to win you would need lots of luck, since you don't have lots of logic.

lol correct, suing and winning are two totally different things.  Well, first I'll give them a chance to give me my money back, but they've ignored every email so far.  Then I'm going to try a reversal through my bank and if that fails, I'll send a certified letter to their payment process in the US, if that fails, then I will sue.. and I bet I win too or at least get a judgement vs their payment processor in the US.  I've sued multiple times and been sued myself multiple times.  One time I flew all the way to alabama and lost the case in about 5 minutes.

This magical tux guy comes off like a total a-hole to be honest so I'd relish this opportunity.  He seems to think that being the target of hate mail, lawsuits and other threats is just a random occurence and indicative that everyone must be insane but him, messiah complex.

[oneforall]

lol correct, suing and winning are two totally different things.  Well, first I'll give them a chance to give me my money back, but they've ignored every email so far.  Then I'm going to try a reversal through my bank and if that fails, I'll send a certified letter to their payment process in the US, if that fails, then I will sue.. and I bet I win too or at least get a judgement vs their payment processor in the US.  I've sued multiple times and been sued myself multiple times.  One time I flew all the way to alabama and lost the case in about 5 minutes.

I'd say that makes you more qualified than me in this field then. I've never sued anybody and wouldn't know if I've been sued, I've been in a constant state of travel since i was 18 and would not be able to be reached by anyone to tell me I'm being sued.. lol. i hope you are able to work it out the way that is most convenient/fair for all parties involved.

[Anduril]

I bet you I can sue these guys.. wanna bet?  I will post the details on here step by step instructions and get a case number for you - we can use that arbitration service to settle the wager lol, anyone know the name of the LLC/state it operated in that handled their US payments?  I'll get on the horn first thing monday.. I got provable damages in US dollars over small claims amounts too

You cannot sue their payment intermediaries in the United States (well, you can, but you are not likely to be successful) , there is a considerable body of case law that declares intermediaries are not liable for actions committed by their customers unless the intermediary is a direct party to the transaction (for a good example, see Tiffany v eBay 576 F.Supp.2d 463 (2008) ).

[beeph]

I bet you I can sue these guys.. wanna bet?  I will post the details on here step by step instructions and get a case number for you - we can use that arbitration service to settle the wager lol, anyone know the name of the LLC/state it operated in that handled their US payments?  I'll get on the horn first thing monday.. I got provable damages in US dollars over small claims amounts too

You cannot sue their payment intermediaries in the United States (well, you can, but you are not likely to be successful) , there is a considerable body of case law that declares intermediaries are not liable for actions committed by their customers unless the intermediary is a direct party to the transaction (for a good example, see Tiffany v eBay 576 F.Supp.2d 463 (2008) ).

Well we'll see, I'll definitely be notifying their state's securities regulators and that LLC directly exactly who they're processing payments for, and then they can judge themselves if they want to accept liability or just cut them off.

I'm getting my money back.. nearly 1000$ (not bitcoins) and they wont even respond to my emails.  Someone's gonna fucking pay.

[unk]

i noticed in the now-deleted 'support' thread at support.mtgox.com that several customers claimed to have contacted the japanese consulate in the united states and were told that tibanne trading was not properly registered and that a criminal investigation was being mounted. i have no idea if those claims were reliable, but they seemed to be backed up by different parties. i mention it only because i was surprised not to see any mention of that in this forum, though perhaps i missed it.

(again, i don't mean to lend any credence to those rumours. the quality of the 'support' thread was not very high.)

[beeph]

i noticed in the now-deleted 'support' thread at support.mtgox.com that several customers claimed to have contacted the japanese consulate in the united states and were told that tibanne trading was not properly registered and that a criminal investigation was being mounted. i have no idea if those claims were reliable, but they seemed to be backed up by different parties. i mention it only because i was surprised not to see any mention of that in this forum, though perhaps i missed it.

(again, i don't mean to lend any credence to those rumours. the quality of the 'support' thread was not very high.)

It is unclear if the exchange is registered as a Financial Instruments Firm with the Japanese regulator Kanto Local Finance Bureau (Ministry of Finance).  The firm’s website lists Mutum Sigillum, LLC of Delaware as a subsidiary and that is the name associated with the Dwolla account provided to those in the U.S. for moving funds to and from the exchange.  


Ahhhh a US subsidiary then...  If you're filing suit I would recommend that company (though im sure its an assetless shell).
If we can drive them into bankruptcy I'm sure Dwolla will drop them..  and at least stop these incompetent clowns from wreaking more havoc on the bitcoin economy lol.

[Horkabork]

Force Majeure sounds like a 1980's A-team clone, where some hard-assed ex-military guy named "Captain Buck Majeure" puts together a team of the roughest, toughest sons of bitches that he can find. There's Noodles, a tall, lanky explosives expert and the team's chef. In typical explosives-expert fashion, he's clumsy, fumbly, and awkward... that is until explosives are involved! Then, he's got nerves of steel and never makes a mistake. He also has coke-bottle glasses, but during the action he puts on a pair of wrap-around goggles and suddenly looks like a badass frogman.

Then there's Steel Hardcastle, a massive man whose skin is practically bulletproof for all the times he's been shot, stabbed, burned, or blown up. Steel speaks in grunts and never fires anything smaller that 50 calibers. His hands are so huge that every couple of episodes he picks up a bad guy by their head. For comic relief, wimpier opponents sometimes just faint at the prospect of having to fight him. Sometimes, he surprises everyone by actually saying more than a few words at a time and then quotes several meaningful, poetic lines of a literature passage that's relevant to the situation at hand. This is usually right before everyone starts to laugh. Freeze frame. Roll credits.

Then there's Chip, the only female in the group (but she still has a semi-masculine nickname). She's an expert at espionage and knives. The show opens a few times by showing a strange-looking young man with a hat hanging out with the enemy and acting slightly suspicious. Then we watch that young man leave, hide behind a wall, and peel off facial prosthetics and the hat, shaking her long red hair in slow motion as the "young man" is revealed to be a sultry woman in disguise.

There's a pilot named Dietrich, whose gimmick is that he's German and keeps trying to say and screwing up English idioms, such as "Don't put all your roosters in one bucket." After two episodes, he'll disappear from the series with no explanation, only to show up 5 seasons later with a throwaway one-liner that hangs a lantern on his absence. Really, the producers suddenly realized that they couldn't afford helicopters, planes, and speedboats in every episode, so the character was practically useless. Also, racist 1980s audiences didn't like it that he was German.

After Dietrich, a Sniper named R.J. "Trigger" McIntyre joins the team when they rescue him from a Columbian guerrilla camp where he was held captive for 6 years (He was part of a black operation and his government disavowed him). He's Scottish and likes to wisecrack and tell jokes over the radio while the team is in the shit and he's sniping from afar. His shooting of bad guys is oddly subpar, but he often hits tiny targets like ropes hanging from cranes, the tires on cars several miles away and driving fast, guns out of people's hands, and any dynamite or propane tank that might happen to be lying on the ground near a hidden enemy.

Captain Buck Majeure himself is a mystery to his soldiers. He seems to have friends and contacts everywhere, but his past is a shadowy spider's web of connections and lies. Whenever the soldiers have a chance to talk to one of his "old buddies" about him, they seem to know him by different names and have a different story every time: He used to be a Navy Seal. He's former CIA. He once saved the President's life. He took down a group of terrorists in a bomb plot and then G-men tried to kill him because they wanted to keep the threat a secret. Captain Majeure always wears reflective sunglasses and looks a little like General Patton. When the action gets tight and it seems like Force Majeure is in trouble and are not going to make it this time, a Deus ex Machina rescues them and Captain Majeure acts like it was his plan the whole time. His only weapon seems to be a 6-shooter pistol that he keeps in a low-slung holster.

Then there's the unofficial second-in-command, Sam White. He's a jack-of-all-trades and is the default point-man for the group, often meeting with clients and scouting new jobs. He gets captured, beaten, and released a lot by the bad guys, who let him live only to "delivery a message" to Captain Majeure. Sam also does a lot of Macgyveresque improvised weapons. He and Chip have a bit of perpetual sexual tension punctuated by little fights that are secretly flirtatious.

He sometimes is at odds with Captain Majeure, saying things like "It's too risky. God dammit. I'll go in alone!" In the final episode arc of the series, Captain Majeure reveals to Sam that he is his father when Sam's mother is captured by some bad guys.

Then they go around the world fighting for justice using their OWN set of rules. FORCE MAJEURE!

[fisheye]

Someone once sued mcdonalds for their coffee being too hot.. lot of bored, out of work, lawyers in the US.
http://www.vanosteen.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit.htm   - they wont 2 mil+ on it

read your own link. that lawsuit was pretty justified. the coffee wasn't just "hot", it was hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns on the lady's genitals and thighs, which required extensive medical care. she wanted $20k to cover the medical costs - McD's offered her $800. And a settlement was eventually made for far less than the 2mil jury verdict.

[Anduril]

Well we'll see, I'll definitely be notifying their state's securities regulators and that LLC directly exactly who they're processing payments for, and then they can judge themselves if they want to accept liability or just cut them off.

I'm getting my money back.. nearly 1000$ (not bitcoins) and they wont even respond to my emails.  Someone's gonna fucking pay.

Payment intermediaries are not liable for anything done by MtGox, period. Do read the case I cited, it is a simple Google away, you cannot sue intermediaries for what MtGox did or did not do.

Don't you think that international litigation will cost you more than $1k USD?

[Cryptodude2020]

Question for someone who may have done this or knows more. How do you sue a Crypto exchange and where do you initiate it? I live in US however what happens if the exchange does not have any presence in US?

HITBTC seems to be systematically blocking thoughts of users from accessing their account in pretense of security and a class action suite seems to be the only option left. Any one has any idea how to peruse this? Any attorney who may be willing to take this?

Any help in this regards is appreciated.