KNCMINER trying to screw us one last time!

[NotFuzzyWarm]

other communications between the client (you) and KnCMiner (email, forum posts etc anything that you may have).

Speaking of that... what are the laws over there with regard to possible destruction of evidence when you know or should reasonably know that there is a potential lawsuit pending?  This in regard to their website redesign where the KnCMiner forums (full of good information on 'old' tech and miners) up and disappeared. ( They could still have all that information and just aren't publishing it, of course. )

As we Investomers in AMT have done, use the Wayback immediately to capture and Publicly archive any webpage of theirs. http://archive.org/web/
Pages archived there are proven legally admissible evidence.
The site also lets you search back in history for any pages others have archived there.

[TheRealSteve]

As we Investomers in AMT have done, use the Wayback immediately to capture and Publicly archive any webpage of theirs. http://archive.org/web/
Pages archived there are proven legally admissible evidence.
The site also lets you search back in history for any pages others have archived there.

Yeah, I grabbed a copy of whatever was left in the wayback machine - unfortunately, not everything is in there - and what's there now is not guaranteed to be there in the future as archived content can be made inaccessible retroactively.

My question was more with regard to whether it would even be legal for them to destroy that information (I'd guess it's legal to take it offline as long as they retain a copy) when they were or could reasonably have been aware of a potential pending lawsuit.  In the U.S. this is covered in part under spoliation laws - I have no idea about Sweden

[unamis76]

Seems like you guys are in a good track, and have lawyers that can help you... The future is starting to look brighter, good luck

[NotFuzzyWarm]

As we Investomers in AMT have done, use the Wayback immediately to capture and Publicly archive any webpage of theirs. http://archive.org/web/
Pages archived there are proven legally admissible evidence.
The site also lets you search back in history for any pages others have archived there.

Yeah, I grabbed a copy of whatever was left in the wayback machine - unfortunately, not everything is in there - and what's there now is not guaranteed to be there in the future as archived content can be made inaccessible retroactively.

My question was more with regard to whether it would even be legal for them to destroy that information (I'd guess it's legal to take it offline as long as they retain a copy) when they were or could reasonably have been aware of a potential pending lawsuit.  In the U.S. this is covered in part under spoliation laws - I have no idea about Sweden

AFAIK only the original person that archived the pages can remove them(or court order I guess).
Folks here might want to contact opieum2 who is doing work on the AMT scammer Joshua Zipkin. One thing he is pushing hard on is a matter of collusion between AMT/Bitmine.ch, Technobit, KNC, and Hashfast. For example: The Blockchain shows sizable BTC transfers between wallets owned by Joshua Zipkin owner of what was AMT to and from KNC along with what is like clockwork mining income from a KNC pool to Josh's wallet.

And then there is what we feel is the heart of the matter: PetaHash and the investment group behind it. They have strong links to KNC, AMT/Bitmine.ch, HashFast, and other rotten apples. Wanna bet that most of any hardware produced (that worked) went to them and other farms with little or for some cases no hardware making it to the non-Peta farm scale Consumers?

[P0rny]

Got a few questions answered from the lawyers:

1 - Right to removal of the forums:

they removed the information to protect themselves. They owned that information and had the right to remove it.

2 - How long will this take

An individual action in the Stockholm District Court takes about a year nowadays. A class action suit is likely to be a bit faster, especially if the plaintiffs are consumers. It’s not the Stockholm District Court since only 5 courts in Sweden are allowed to accept class actions and they are specialized in this.

[P0rny]

By making this information public I have gotten other information from fellow users / victims.

One piece of valuable information, I hear one person (in Europe) had pretty much mirrored the whole of the KNC forums before it was taken down. Not sure if its a 100% backup but it sounds like ~98%.

I'll let you know more once I know more, I want to also see if this person would want to share his backup for the upcoming site...

[TheRealSteve]

AFAIK only the original person that archived the pages can remove them(or court order I guess).

Inaccessible isn't necessarily the same as removed.  As anybody with a desire to hide things can easily google it anyway, let me point the way: http://archive.org/post/1019415/retroactive-robotstxt-removal-of-past-crawls-aka-oakland-archive-policy
And yes, this is by design - although a design of infinitesimally small thinking, even for a 2002 policy .  It should be obvious that I think the spirit of the policy should be followed, not the letter, but there you go.

Got a few questions answered from the lawyers:

they removed the information to protect themselves. They owned that information and had the right to remove it

Yeah, like I said - they probably had the right to take it down.. the question was if they have the right to actually delete that information altogether.  It's one thing to hide it from the public eye, and another to destroy

[P0rny]

Yeah, like I said - they probably had the right to take it down.. the question was if they have the right to actually delete that information altogether.  It's one thing to hide it from the public eye, and another to destroy

It's my understanding (not a lawyer, could be wrong) that as its their content, and as long as no case is actively using that as evidence  (e.g no judge told them not to touch it) they can destroy it if they wish to.

But if you really want to know, I can put it in my next batch of questions to the lawyers

[TheRealSteve]

Nah, I'm not vested in this (potential) case - my own interest re: forums is limited to the fact that a trove of early mining information is effectively lost - was more a question which those who would be part might want to ask

[P0rny]

Reminder note from the lawyer:

those who have accepted one of the two options, should inform KnCMiner immediately that they have changed their mind and will pursue KnCMiner’s breach of contract legally instead. They should also refuse delivery of any miner being sent if they took that option. If someone went for the 3 BTC,  they should immediately pay back the 3 BTC and inform KNC the same as above.
 

[Searing]

Reminder note from the lawyer:

those who have accepted one of the two options, should inform KnCMiner immediately that they have changed their mind and will pursue KnCMiner’s breach of contract legally instead. They should also refuse delivery of any miner being sent if they took that option. If someone went for the 3 BTC,  they should immediately pay back the 3 BTC and inform KNC the same as above.
 

considering KNC is offering 3 BTC for these bonus titan's vs a free neppie....I think I'd probably consider the lawyers myself ....but then again I'm on the sidelines did not get a neppie nor a batch 2 titan ...orig titan order (yeah yeah i drank the knc kool aid back in the day..)

and I think the lawyers have the upfront fee...then again I'd be mad as hell....but I mean really ....by choosing the bonus titan instead of neptune you lost 2 or 3 months
from at least conceivably getting a bonus neppie when it kinda/sorta/maybe could mine more then 3 BTC for crying out loud

me I tried contacting these law firms 3x about Titan (regular 1st batch) never got a reply...probably because mine shipped out 5 months ago.....the neppies have a better
case in that knc OBVIOUSLY built their data hall up rather then ship these units...and of course bonus stuff was way late and lame an also obvious stall..so i guess i get it

whatever just glad i went as a biz due to the bank error at least is is looking like I'll knock my 10,131.80 unit down to 7.6k or so in real costs after equip deductions

.....so got lucky (in a half assed kinda way..I'll take it) ....would rather see 1k coin and just pay the IRS to tell the truth on what I mine..but hey paying nothing on minng
and getting equip deductions  .... this works too....good to have a goal mining to see if
I can only lose 25% with elec on this Titan......(hey I'll take that eventually at this point)

it is a very lame goal..but hey ....you do what you can do to float the boat

good luck on the lawsuits....

(damn I wish I would have backed up knc forums that woulda really helped you folk)

[P0rny]

considering KNC is offering 3 BTC for these bonus titan's vs a free neppie....I think I'd probably consider the lawyers myself ....but then again I'm on the sidelines did not get a neppie nor a batch 2 titan ...orig titan order (yeah yeah i drank the knc kool aid back in the day..)

Dude, I drank it as well. Other than my 2 neps I had ordered a Titan batch one as well...

good luck on the lawsuits....

(damn I wish I would have backed up knc forums that woulda really helped you folk)

Thanks! Can always use more luck in a lawsuit
Yep, the forums... but you know what they say about hindsight

[RealMalatesta]

If someone happens to hang around the KnC-offices and happens to have a camera and happens to take pictures going into the offices... I'd be interested in them...

[P0rny]

If someone happens to hang around the KnC-offices and happens to have a camera and happens to take pictures going into the offices... I'd be interested in them...

Someone would probably take you up on your "project" if you put up a bounty in BTC

On a related note, since I have been contacted by different people after making this thread, a little birdie has told me that KNC is not operating so much from their old address... there is either a skeleton staff there or none at all, they have quietly shifted offices to a more secluded place - guessing, I would say one of the precautions after cheating soooo many people and not knowing who is going to pay them a "visit" with "ill intentions" in mind.

Not confirmed and I can't post the address of course.

[Searing]

If someone happens to hang around the KnC-offices and happens to have a camera and happens to take pictures going into the offices... I'd be interested in them...

Someone would probably take you up on your "project" if you put up a bounty in BTC

On a related note, since I have been contacted by different people after making this thread, a little birdie has told me that KNC is not operating so much from their old address... there is either a skeleton staff there or none at all, they have quietly shifted offices to a more secluded place - guessing, I would say one of the precautions after cheating soooo many people and not knowing who is going to pay them a "visit" with "ill intentions" in mind.

Not confirmed and I can't post the address of course.

It may just be a 'former employee' kinda thing....they are going to run all from the data hall in Iceland..which means they can downsize all the rest ..no need for shipping/sales/customer service/repair techs ...etc (nor knc forums anymore nor a link on their page to firmware before the Neptune) etc etc..ie they are cleaning house

essentially unless you want to move from Sweden to Iceland...and maybe be one of the few techs there on the IPO data hall the whole place is being shut down in Sweden is my guess

that also is my view on why they suddenly said the folk who got 200mh 2nd batch mini-titans got refunded and the folks who asked for instead of bonus titans instead of bonus neptunes as they were promised and were told there
were 'tech issues' and could not get them..we will now that you are last in line send you a bonus neppie 2 months late
(even thou they probably just got done shipping the last of the 2nd batch 400mh units w/o tech issues)

some bean counter probably figured out that keeping all the staff on an extra 3 weeks to a month to get that stuff out it was way way cheaper to just to pay back the mini-titan 200mh
2nd batch folks and probably ship a used neppie as your 'free bonus' for the supposed its ok we will send you a bonus titan ..that some were promised.... with a lump it or leave it

anyway its a guess....but they are cheap bastards...it would seem to be a good guess imho

[P0rny]

Bought the domain:
knc-kncminer-titan-lawsuit.org

and hosting for it, a small preview of whats to come is online 

if anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to tell me.

Cheers and have a good weekend!

[BG4]

Why did KNCwallet App update today when it says its obsolete and to find another wallet..... suspicious !!!!!  So I Deleted it!!!!

[P0rny]

What is "KNCWallet" app? Never heard of it 

[P0rny]

Article on CCN regarding this class action suit: 

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-company-kncminer-facing-three-class-action-lawsuits/

CCN have also kindly linked to the new website that I posted earlier! 

[Metaphilibert]

Hi
I know this thread is for people who chose the Titan as the bonus machine, but as a mini-titan buyer I have to tell you that the same kind of crazy proposal was made to us.
The price for a mini-titan was $3,795. I paid with 418 LTC end of June 2014.
No news until this email (also the 31 of March):

Dear Sir/Madam,
We can see in our records that you had ordered a batch 2 Mini Titan miner. Unfortunately due an unforeseen shortage of a critical component we are forced to cancel the entire production of the batch 2 Mini Titans.
In this case we can offer you one of the following options.
 
1)      Receive a Neptune miner which is being produced in our assembly facility this week and next.
2)      Receive a full refund of your batch 2 Mini Titan order. (Please note that refunds will only be paid via the method used to pay for each order)
 
Please confirm your choice as soon as possible.
 
Thank you.
KnCMiner Team.

As noticed by Unacceptable, A Neptune can be found around $1,000 so I wanted to opt for the refund. But when asking about the amount this was the answer:

Hi,

Apologies for the delay in reply. We can only refund via the same method that the payment was made i.e cyrpto currency, if you paid in litecoin we can refund the amount of litecoin you paid at the time, or we can cover the amount of litecoin you paid at the time to the equivalent amount of Bitcoin based on the exchange price at the time of refund.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Med vänlig hälsning | Best regards

Keith Gurnett

Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

So they don’t want to refund in crypto currency the equivalent of the amount of the purchase in dollar (based on the exchange price at the time of refund) but well the amount of crypto-currency originally spent for this purchase.

Question for your lawyers:
I paid a $3,795 invoice (with 418 LTC) as a professional (with EU VAT nr).  Knc wants to refund me something like $580 (at current LTC/USD rate). Is it possible that they respect the law like said in this last answer?

Hi,

Apologies for the long delay in reply. The Swedish law on cancelled purchases is that both parties get back what they initially performed. The initial transaction you performed was that you paid to us a number of LTC, for that reason you must be repaid that same number of LTC, or have that amount of LTC converted to BTC at the current exchange rate.

Please provide a wallet address for either LTC or BTC and we will then process the refund as quickly as possible.

Thanks in advance.

Med vänlig hälsning | Best regards

Keith Gurnett

Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20