[DOWN] Bitlc.net - P2SH, No invalid blocks, Custom payouts, EU, 0% fee, LP

[kislam]

yeah, it's working for me too. thanks...

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[pandemic]

so, how about those site upgrades?

[deepceleron]

I have been getting the JSON pool stats from bitcoins.lc every minute for the last four months, with a little stats scraper program I made. It appends the data to a CSV file. If you want to investigate a pool's stats for four months of mining, here you go (17,283,823 bytes CSV, 151,502 lines, 7-zipped to 1.17 MB): http://we.lovebitco.in/lc.StatsLog.138077-152915.7z

Data looks like this:

Code:

Date,Time,hash_rate,current_block,difficulty,active_workers,solved_blocks,total_workers,total_users,round_started,round_shares,valid_round_shares,total_shares,,
07-25-2011,22:07:09,469967251993,138077,1690895.803052,1757,338,17271,8701,1311655836,107612,86681,414730543,,
07-25-2011,22:08:10,475343119392,138077,1690895.803052,1756,338,17271,8701,1311655836,107612,109001,414730543,,
07-25-2011,22:09:10,475343119392,138077,1690895.803052,1756,338,17271,8701,1311655836,125163,109001,414730543,,
07-25-2011,22:10:11,475343119392,138077,1690895.803052,1756,338,17271,8701,1311655836,125163,126901,414730543,,
07-25-2011,22:11:11,483761255292,138077,1690895.803052,1764,338,17271,8701,1311655836,140840,126901,414757801,,

Date,Time: my local time UTC-7 and -8
round_started: unix epoch time in JSON

Note: a new round announcement is delayed in an odd way, stats keeps counting up shares as though they were contributed to the previous round for 1-3600 seconds. For analysis, you might need to use the block found time and recalculate the delayed stats.

[wacko]

Is it possible to set up automatic payouts?

[tynt]

Why is my block reward so small when block is based under 2000 shares. Poolhopping?
<2000 shares = ~0.35BTC per block
>20000 shares = ~0.6BTC per block

[deepceleron]

Why is my block reward so small when block is based under 2000 shares. Poolhopping?

Yes. I no longer mine here because of it. Still waiting for PPLNS; Jine actually kicked me from IRC months ago, not believing that hoppers hurt proportional pool users and unable to be convinced.

Notice the hashrate spikes from 150 to 400 at start of new block, you have to share lucky rounds with 3x more miners:
http://www.bitcoins.lc/graphs

and this:



I could also refer to Meni Rosenfeld's mining pool reward systems analysis (PDF):
"Proportional: ...This is the worst reward system and must not be used."

[martychubbs]

Why is my block reward so small when block is based under 2000 shares. Poolhopping?

Yes. I no longer mine here because of it. Still waiting for PPLNS; Jine actually kicked me from IRC months ago, not believing that hoppers hurt proportional pool users and unable to be convinced.

Notice the hashrate spikes from 150 to 400 at start of new block, you have to share lucky rounds with 3x more miners:
http://www.bitcoins.lc/graphs

and this:



I could also refer to Meni Rosenfeld's mining pool reward systems analysis (PDF):
"Proportional: ...This is the worst reward system and must not be used."

with delayed stats, this pool is hard to hop...or it is for me...  I measure everything and this pool is all over the place with efficiency if you track it over short or per block period.  If you average your rewards what are they? I found my results around 100%...

Also, this pool doesn't decrease hashrate as significant as more hop friendly pools...  This is a pretty good pool for those of us who like a little variability and fast rewards.  What PPLNS pools have significant hashrates to pay and sell and get these current high rates?  I donate and don’t lose efficiency here so I like it the way it is...  Since PPLNS is still a small proportion to aggregate payout methods, the market is speaking loud and clear.  I like to try different pools and game, AFAIK PPLNS doesn’t play well or penalizes my behavior.  So why would you try and push for payment method changes for pools that operate at a high hashrate?  Seems like a few vocal miners trying to influence their preferences against market’s hashrate distribution…  Go pump at  Masterpool; he needs it… ;-)

[deepceleron]

with delayed stats, this pool is hard to hop...or it is for me...  I measure everything and this pool is all over the place with efficiency if you track it over short or per block period.  If you average your rewards what are they? I found my results around 100%...

Also, this pool doesn't decrease hashrate as significant as more hop friendly pools...  This is a pretty good pool for those of us who like a little variability and fast rewards.  What PPLNS pools have significant hashrates to pay and sell and get these current high rates?  I donate and don’t lose efficiency here so I like it the way it is...  Since PPLNS is still a small proportion to aggregate payout methods, the market is speaking loud and clear.  I like to try different pools and game, AFAIK PPLNS doesn’t play well or penalizes my behavior.  So why would you try and push for payment method changes for pools that operate at a high hashrate?  Seems like a few vocal miners trying to influence their preferences against market’s hashrate distribution…  Go pump at  Masterpool; he needs it… ;-)

This is analogous to a shop that has a pickpocket problem so bad that the store operator was advised by customers they should get security guards and a camera system, 75% of the regular customers leave (the hashrate used to be over 600MH/s), and the pickpockets claiming that it is one of their stores of choice so nothing needs to change.

[tynt]

I gathered some data from bitcoins.lc site and made some charts. It clearly show how reward varies wildly, even if "shares per hour" is constant.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnkMoIb-6L1xdE1YRmpfS3BYTXZacDYzb0VMQl91WlE

Last ~20 blocks:


Last ~60 blocks

[martychubbs]

with delayed stats, this pool is hard to hop...or it is for me...  I measure everything and this pool is all over the place with efficiency if you track it over short or per block period.  If you average your rewards what are they? I found my results around 100%...

Also, this pool doesn't decrease hashrate as significant as more hop friendly pools...  This is a pretty good pool for those of us who like a little variability and fast rewards.  What PPLNS pools have significant hashrates to pay and sell and get these current high rates?  I donate and don’t lose efficiency here so I like it the way it is...  Since PPLNS is still a small proportion to aggregate payout methods, the market is speaking loud and clear.  I like to try different pools and game, AFAIK PPLNS doesn’t play well or penalizes my behavior.  So why would you try and push for payment method changes for pools that operate at a high hashrate?  Seems like a few vocal miners trying to influence their preferences against market’s hashrate distribution…  Go pump at  Masterpool; he needs it… ;-)

This is analogous to a shop that has a pickpocket problem so bad that the store operator was advised by customers they should get security guards and a camera system, 75% of the regular customers leave (the hashrate used to be over 600MH/s), and the pickpockets claiming that it is one of their stores of choice so nothing needs to change.

It is not analogous.  The drop in hashrate correlates with a 45% decrease in network hash rate in the last 5 months. Furthermore, pools that have switched to PPLNS have lost avg hashrate.  So, modify your analogy to include a significant tax that decreased shopping overall and that stores, which implemented tight security measures, are having a hard time finding new customers.  Then, they pay local hobo's to tell their busier competition and their shoppers how crappy it is...boohoo.  

[BkkCoins]

Hi. Just tried out this pool for a bit. Why would the share count go down on my worker page?
I looked one time and it was 227/229 and then a few minutes later it was 208/210.
I thought this was a count of shares accepted/submitted.
Also, cgminer tells me I submitted 482 shares with 6 rejects. So where are the other shares.
I just don't understand the reporting here and so I've switched back to another pool until I do.

 

[ancow]

Hi. Just tried out this pool for a bit. Why would the share count go down on my worker page?
I looked one time and it was 227/229 and then a few minutes later it was 208/210.
I thought this was a count of shares accepted/submitted.
Also, cgminer tells me I submitted 482 shares with 6 rejects. So where are the other shares.
I just don't understand the reporting here and so I've switched back to another pool until I do.

 

As it says on that page, the "share count" is an average over 30 minutes. (And yes, this is surprisingly counter intuitive for a pool that claims to be user friendly...)

[BkkCoins]

Ah, I see now. Oh well. Now I've switched back it shows me I have no shares and no estimated income and nothing at all. Not only is this a bit counter intuitive but it makes it very hard to see what work you've done and what you will get paid. Right now I have no idea what my pay will be when a block is found. Hope it's not just a big fat zero.

On my current pool I would end up with roughly 50/1155038*482 = 0.02 so I'll be interested to see what this turns out to be. A bit too much like a lottery for me though.

[deepceleron]

Ah, I see now. Oh well. Now I've switched back it shows me I have no shares and no estimated income and nothing at all. Not only is this a bit counter intuitive but it makes it very hard to see what work you've done and what you will get paid. Right now I have no idea what my pay will be when a block is found. Hope it's not just a big fat zero.

On my current pool I would end up with roughly 50/1155038*482 = 0.02 so I'll be interested to see what this turns out to be. A bit too much like a lottery for me though.

The statistics counter for miners (for your workers on the "generate bitcoins" link) says: "valid shares that worker has reported in the last 30 minutes". This will allow you to see your share submissions after a bit of time (I think it is only updated every 30 minutes).

The payment system is proportional, meaning that when a block is found by the pool, the proportion of your shares vs all shares submitted since the last block was found is what determines your portion of the 50 BTC reward. If you are 1% of the pool's hashrate, and a block was found after 1,000,000 shares, you should have submitted around 10,000 shares in that time, and your reward will be determined by this ratio.

[BkkCoins]

WTF?
I had an account balance of 0.01789952 and hit the instant payout button. It sent me 0.01 btc and kept the remaining 0.00789952 in the pool! WHY? Why didn't it send me the whole balance?

I just want to cash out and leave this pool behind because I think it sucks. I've tested out quite a few pools and this is the only one with so little information about your mining. Now it doesn't even cash out properly and I'm even more glad I won't be back. I only mined here just long enough to do a cash out and now it still holds onto my balance. Like every other useless or deceptive bit of info on your screens here the account balance doesn't even correctly indicate how much you'll receive.

Why on earth would you payout in 0.01 increments and leave a remaining balance? Is this some kind of scam to keep left over mining? YES, I realize it's a trivial amount but it's the principle of not paying what I have on account and good riddance to this terrible scammy pool.

[ancow]

WTF?
I had an account balance of 0.01789952 and hit the instant payout button. It sent me 0.01 btc and kept the remaining 0.00789952 in the pool! WHY? Why didn't it send me the whole balance?

Without commenting on how annoyed I am at the same issue: the pool software is quite old and, in places, unfinished. I guess the limited payout is leftover from when the bitcoin client wasn't able to properly handle subcent values.
(The last I read about a planned software update was sometime in August, I believe...)

[nased0]

I have just observed that although current round stats are delayed for a few hours, information who solved the latest block is not delayed.
It is all the poolhoppers need!

[deepceleron]

Pools down/gone? 502 Bad Gateway at http://www.bitcoins.lc and bitlc.net.

Jine: Last Active: November 15, 2011, 11:36:59 PM

[simonk83]

Pools down/gone? 502 Bad Gateway at http://www.bitcoins.lc and bitlc.net.

Jine: Last Active: November 15, 2011, 11:36:59 PM

It's up

[Jine]

I wonder what happened to my subscription to this thread... Haven't received any e-mails for quite a while...
I'm alive, so is the pool We're switching to PoolserverJ+updated version of bitcoind (To support BIP 16 "Pay to Script Hash") in just a day or so (currently working on it)

I'll read through the last few pages and update myself.