Newest Diff thread April 5 to April 18th

[aurel57]

I have all my miners pointed back at Westhash... this is to good to pass up. Sometimes my S3's dont failover so only had the S5 renting hash in the past, but just changed the 3's over. The weird part is I have a batch 2 S3 that was a dog from the get go....Had two bad chips that use to show a x on one and a - on the other...but switching it over to Westhash about 4 hours ago the darn thing shows all "o" now on all chips and it has not done that in months of restarts?

[1714713038]

1714713038

[philipma1957]

I have all my miners pointed back at Westhash... this is to good to pass up. Sometimes my S3's dont failover so only had the S5 renting hash in the past, but just changed the 3's over. The weird part is I have a batch 2 S3 that was a dog from the get go....Had two bad chips that use to show a x on one and a - on the other...but switching it over to Westhash about 4 hours ago the darn thing shows all "o" now on all chips and it has not done that in months of restarts?

that is found money bro.

[suchmoon]

Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm working on putting together the final list but if someone wants to make a last minute guess or change - now's the time.

Sorry for the delay, tax time is taxing.

[sloopy]

We wouldn't benefit doing block withholding in any way.

But evil miners could do that with modified mining software. Every pool is prone to this kind of attack, not only rentals.

If there was a (simple) way to detect such activity of miners, we would already have it implemented. We believe that is the negative issue of current pooled mining concept.

Its weird how people are paying 20% over BTC right now at Nicehash just to mine BTC directly.

Currently the price is 0.012300 Th/BTC/Day. And they aren't mining an altcoin but BTC itself.

I had my price set at .0136 because I was only interested in renting if it was a large payout, and I watched it yesterday and had the same thoughts as many others wondering what the current coin that was getting so much attention. I mine at Kano.is and like the good payouts when blocks hit, but I could not resist lowering my price and jumping in at westhash.
MY S4s and S3s need tweaking. I put the nicehash s3 binary on a couple of S3s and they worked, even rolling back ok, but the S4s I didn't and tried the #xnsub, no rollover, so I just left the ones which worked and will go back and tweak the others later, but overall, this must have some impact on difficulty, albeit small, but I certainly know Phil is right on with the ability to affect the network with 1 bitcoin at the right time of the day. Imagine a group renting all of the available hash from every mining site, and not for an attack, but how much could it impact difficulty? Say 20 guys put down 5 coins each at the different mining sites. average the pricing across all sites, manage the times, the right time and pointed towards any sha256 coin with a break even sell price.
What is the realistic effect on Bitcoin difficulty?
Use 30 guys with 10 coins each, or 5 guys with 30 coins, etc.

Good stuff to get the mind moving this morning Phil, thanks for the reply bud, and I hope you are having a good morning.

Great Info from all ty. I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts, and the rental refresher!

[suchmoon]

FINAL LIST OF ENTRIES FOR THE 0.1 BTC REWARD

New entries are not accepted anymore but speculation is welcome.

Please take a minute to find your name in the list and verify the numbers. Let me know if you see anything wrong.

The pack is tight this time (rollover less likely) and BitcoinWisdom shows -1.67% trending a bit higher.

Thank you for participating.

[philipma1957]

We wouldn't benefit doing block withholding in any way.

But evil miners could do that with modified mining software. Every pool is prone to this kind of attack, not only rentals.

If there was a (simple) way to detect such activity of miners, we would already have it implemented. We believe that is the negative issue of current pooled mining concept.

Its weird how people are paying 20% over BTC right now at Nicehash just to mine BTC directly.

Currently the price is 0.012300 Th/BTC/Day. And they aren't mining an altcoin but BTC itself.

I had my price set at .0136 because I was only interested in renting if it was a large payout, and I watched it yesterday and had the same thoughts as many others wondering what the current coin that was getting so much attention. I mine at Kano.is and like the good payouts when blocks hit, but I could not resist lowering my price and jumping in at westhash.
MY S4s and S3s need tweaking. I put the nicehash s3 binary on a couple of S3s and they worked, even rolling back ok, but the S4s I didn't and tried the #xnsub, no rollover, so I just left the ones which worked and will go back and tweak the others later, but overall, this must have some impact on difficulty, albeit small, but I certainly know Phil is right on with the ability to affect the network with 1 bitcoin at the right time of the day. Imagine a group renting all of the available hash from every mining site, and not for an attack, but how much could it impact difficulty? Say 20 guys put down 5 coins each at the different mining sites. average the pricing across all sites, manage the times, the right time and pointed towards any sha256 coin with a break even sell price.
What is the realistic effect on Bitcoin difficulty?
Use 30 guys with 10 coins each, or 5 guys with 30 coins, etc.

Good stuff to get the mind moving this morning Phil, thanks for the reply bud, and I hope you are having a good morning.

Great Info from all ty. I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts, and the rental refresher!

I think the rental to drop the upcoming  hashrate will not pass 1 or 2 % basically renting  1ph for a day drops  about a ⅓ of a percent

so 3ph = 1 percent.

 I think being about to rent more then 10ph even as a group is not easy..    so for the  sake of argument a concerted effort of renters can drop the network maybe 1% for 1 adjustment if they do 30 coins a day for the entire adjustment. see 1 day price below for 3ph which is about a 1% drop

[philipma1957]

 But this group does not need to lay the 30 coins out. each day.  All they need to do is convince us to mine a hot coin such as TRON  and we the investors or suckers rent or switch gear to alt 256 coins.

  The alltime hands down winner of these alt 256 coins was paycoin.  After reviewing all that  GAW-Zen did from March of 2014 to the actual paycoin mining in nov+ dec 2014 I am convinced it was done to halt or lower BTC diff . I think it ran into trouble due to the BTC price drop.  I also think  the BTC price drop was partially caused as a reaction to the paycoin mining.
If I had serious money in BTC  I would be nervous as to what paycoin did to suck a lot of ph away from btc mining.  I think some major selloffs occurred in BTC due to that super pump & dump event.

[suchmoon]

But this group does not need to lay the 30 coins out. each day.  All they need to do is convince us to mine a hot coin such as TRON  and we the investors or suckers rent or switch gear to alt 256 coins.

  The alltime hands down winner of these alt 256 coins was paycoin.  After reviewing all that  GAW-Zen did from March of 2014 to the actual paycoin mining in nov+ dec 2014 I am convinced it was done to halt or lower BTC diff . I think it ran into trouble due to the BTC price drop.  I also think  the BTC price drop was partially caused as a reaction to the paycoin mining.
If I had serious money in BTC  I would be nervous as to what paycoin did to suck a lot of ph away from btc mining.  I think some major selloffs occurred in BTC due to that super pump & dump event.

You're saying they successfully executed a plan to slow down the diff growth but couldn't take advantage of it because of the price drop? I think you're overestimating their abilities. Not to get too far off topic - a lot of recent events contradict that, like them not paying their power bill since November. If they had a grand plan like that the last thing to do would be to get their power cut off.

But I agree that it shows how a successfully hyped coin can have an impact on BTC. I'd say it's temporary now (Edi: I mean - very short term, it's not Paycoin anymore still holding BTC below $250 now).

[philipma1957]

But this group does not need to lay the 30 coins out. each day.  All they need to do is convince us to mine a hot coin such as TRON  and we the investors or suckers rent or switch gear to alt 256 coins.

  The alltime hands down winner of these alt 256 coins was paycoin.  After reviewing all that  GAW-Zen did from March of 2014 to the actual paycoin mining in nov+ dec 2014 I am convinced it was done to halt or lower BTC diff . I think it ran into trouble due to the BTC price drop.  I also think  the BTC price drop was partially caused as a reaction to the paycoin mining.
If I had serious money in BTC  I would be nervous as to what paycoin did to suck a lot of ph away from btc mining.  I think some major selloffs occurred in BTC due to that super pump & dump event.

You're saying they successfully executed a plan to slow down the diff growth but couldn't take advantage of it because of the price drop? I think you're overestimating their abilities. Not to get too far off topic - a lot of recent events contradict that, like them not paying their power bill since November. If they had a grand plan like that the last thing to do would be to get their power cut off.

But I agree that it shows how a successfully hyped coin can have an impact on BTC. I'd say it's temporary now (Edi: I mean - very short term, it's not Paycoin anymore still holding BTC below $250 now).

I agree that BTC under 250 usd has many factors keeping it there.


As to whether they successfully executed a method to slow diff growth  they did.  I am certain they were trying to do it.  I believe they did it with ltc first it worked and it also crashed the price of ltc.

I think they believed too much in their own hype  and when they applied it to btc+paycoin  they were egotistical enough to think.  BTC would drop and paycoin would rise.

Instead they lowered btc a bit and paycoin fully crashed and burned.   But there are always a lot of factors about price. 

Make the TRON coin have a lot of people mine it and dump it will price is rising. This repeated move hurts BTC and I do not really see how it can be stopped. But what do I know.  In the meantime I am enjoying renting my gear for

0.0128 a th vs 0.0102  .

[philipma1957]

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty  (-2.71%)

https://www.nicehash.com/?p=allorders  has 4.4ph all at 0.0149 vs 'norm' of 0.0102

It is like someone read my early posts and decided to show just how to drop btc diff.

This new coin is Tron  classic pump and  dump I would guess 3.4ph of the 4.4 ph rented on nice hash right now is mining this coin.

 Maybe we can get lucky  and the Tron coin pushes nicehash to .0200  and drops btc diff 5%

[adaseb]

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty  (-2.71%)

https://www.nicehash.com/?p=allorders  has 4.4ph all at 0.0149 vs 'norm' of 0.0102

It is like someone read my early posts and decided to show just how to drop btc diff.

This new coin is Tron  classic pump and  dump I would guess 3.4ph of the 4.4 ph rented on nice hash right now is mining this coin.

 Maybe we can get lucky  and the Tron coin pushes nicehash to .0200  and drops btc diff 5%

According to the pool, the net hashrate for that coin is 12Ph/s at times.

[philipma1957]

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty  (-2.71%)

https://www.nicehash.com/?p=allorders  has 4.4ph all at 0.0149 vs 'norm' of 0.0102

It is like someone read my early posts and decided to show just how to drop btc diff.

This new coin is Tron  classic pump and  dump I would guess 3.4ph of the 4.4 ph rented on nice hash right now is mining this coin.

 Maybe we can get lucky  and the Tron coin pushes nicehash to .0200  and drops btc diff 5%

According to the pool, the net hashrate for that coin is 12Ph/s at times.

thanks .
so 12 ph is 3 maybe 4%  and btc is down 3%.

So if you are bitfury or knc creating a hot coin designed to simply lower btc diff is worth do.. then create a pump and dump tout service to use other peoples money to play the new shit coin.  and for very few coins and a few days time developing that new coin.  you made the diff drop 2-4 % and your big ass 20ph or 30 ph farm pulls in 1 more 2 week adjustment of 3-4% more coins.

20 ph earns 2848 coins in 2 weeks if diff drops 3 % it earns 2934 coins  so you gain 90 coins.

If you can spend 20 of those 90 to create a good pump and dump you gained 70 coins .  and maybe you make something on the pump and dump side of it. looks to me like this will happen over and over. and over again.

[alh]

OK, so lets assume that a new "Pump & Dump" happens on a AltCoin. Somebody has to get burned by that maneuver, don't they? If this is repeated, does this cast a pall on Bitcoin long term, or do folks manage to keep the various alt-coin debacles separate from Bitcoin??

While I am happy with a declining difficulty, if it puts Bitcoin in the crapper long term, it may not be all that great.

[sloopy]

The people renting the hash believing in the coin are the ones who get screwed.
Just like paycoin.

Who makes the most?
The current Asic mfg with product shipping, and the "devs" of the coin.

What would be great is to spot one of those scamcoins coming and pull a double reverse on the pump n dump...

Now that would be a movie!

BTC miners don't mind as long as the difficulty drops, and then the people who bag hold don't start yelling until a month or more down the road.

[adaseb]

Basically the people renting the hashrate late, or the people buying the coin at a high price.


Zero sum game.

[notlist3d]

The people renting the hash believing in the coin are the ones who get screwed.
Just like paycoin.

Who makes the most?
The current Asic mfg with product shipping, and the "devs" of the coin.

What would be great is to spot one of those scamcoins coming and pull a double reverse on the pump n dump...

Now that would be a movie!

BTC miners don't mind as long as the difficulty drops, and then the people who bag hold don't start yelling until a month or more down the road.

I would not compare to paycoin.  Gaw in my opinion killed paycoin.  Looking back it was all pretty obvious.  I was looking at gaw twitter it shows them renting private jet to conference when they were looking ok before paycoin dropped.

It is very nice on pay on nicehash and renting right now.  I will not complain, I hope it continues.

As far as tonight bitwisdom continues to show a downward trend in difficulty.  Hard to say how much hash is being rented and not on btc right now.

Bitcoin Difficulty:    49,446,390,688
Estimated Next Difficulty:    47,682,109,922 (-3.57%)
Adjust time:    After 906 Blocks, About 6.7 days

[philipma1957]

The people renting the hash believing in the coin are the ones who get screwed.
Just like paycoin.

Who makes the most?
The current Asic mfg with product shipping, and the "devs" of the coin.

What would be great is to spot one of those scamcoins coming and pull a double reverse on the pump n dump...

Now that would be a movie!

BTC miners don't mind as long as the difficulty drops, and then the people who bag hold don't start yelling until a month or more down the road.

I would not compare to paycoin.  Gaw in my opinion killed paycoin.  Looking back it was all pretty obvious.  I was looking at gaw twitter it shows them renting private jet to conference when they were looking ok before paycoin dropped.

It is very nice on pay on nicehash and renting right now.  I will not complain, I hope it continues.

As far as tonight bitwisdom continues to show a downward trend in difficulty.  Hard to say how much hash is being rented and not on btc right now.

Bitcoin Difficulty:    49,446,390,688
Estimated Next Difficulty:    47,682,109,922 (-3.57%)
Adjust time:    After 906 Blocks, About 6.7 days

I think the pool had 12ph a few posts back that was mentioned.  So a lot of that 12ph would be mining btc.  It almost perfectly accounts for the 3-4% drop.

I just don't like the pattern it has repeated many times. With PAYCOIN being the all time champ.

[notlist3d]

The people renting the hash believing in the coin are the ones who get screwed.
Just like paycoin.

Who makes the most?
The current Asic mfg with product shipping, and the "devs" of the coin.

What would be great is to spot one of those scamcoins coming and pull a double reverse on the pump n dump...

Now that would be a movie!

BTC miners don't mind as long as the difficulty drops, and then the people who bag hold don't start yelling until a month or more down the road.

I would not compare to paycoin.  Gaw in my opinion killed paycoin.  Looking back it was all pretty obvious.  I was looking at gaw twitter it shows them renting private jet to conference when they were looking ok before paycoin dropped.

It is very nice on pay on nicehash and renting right now.  I will not complain, I hope it continues.

As far as tonight bitwisdom continues to show a downward trend in difficulty.  Hard to say how much hash is being rented and not on btc right now.

Bitcoin Difficulty:    49,446,390,688
Estimated Next Difficulty:    47,682,109,922 (-3.57%)
Adjust time:    After 906 Blocks, About 6.7 days

I think the pool had 12ph a few posts back that was mentioned.  So a lot of that 12ph would be mining btc.  It almost perfectly accounts for the 3-4% drop.

I just don't like the pattern it has repeated many times. With PAYCOIN being the all time champ.

I think not not having Gaw in it makes a big difference for other coins.  Gaw is a pretty horrible company in my opinion.

If you look they are even being sued for not paying electricity cost they used with their equipment.

[mavericklm]

i guess it doesn't matter https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1012578.msg11029983#msg11029983 'cause the diff is too low and the same for the remaining time.

would not expected an negative diff

[notlist3d]

Thinking of things close to that link I love the google document: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qmF2knc5rSrJLESgQJYBz8mPzpKihmSzPPQUGH7pT8g/edit#gid=1784567491

Is it you Phil setting this up each difficulty change on the google doc?  I thank who ever is doing this.