Miracles of Quran

[Muhammed Zakir]

Although, to be honest, both of you are choosing to miss out this little clanger I found when looking for a version of the quote with your preferred grammar:

"It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the night outstrip the day, each just swims along in its own orbit."

One word: Eclipse.

Sooooooo, yet another 'miracle' bites the dust.

NEXT!

Read more. Here you go: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse

A pic:



^^^ "A symbolic orbital diagram from the view of the Earth at the center, with the sun and moon projected upon the celestial sphere, showing the Moon's two nodes where eclipses can occur."

[cryptodevil]

Although, to be honest, both of you are choosing to miss out this little clanger I found when looking for a version of the quote with your preferred grammar:

"It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the night outstrip the day, each just swims along in its own orbit."

One word: Eclipse.

Sooooooo, yet another 'miracle' bites the dust.

NEXT!

you actually do your own judgements yourself and rate your own comments.. LOL

keep commenting, am laughing my ass off here

Because I'm the only one presenting objectively reasoned facts to prove your claims towards 'miracles' in your book as being utter tripe. You just keep on repeating the same text as though that somehow qualifies as an answer.

http://www.foundalis.com/rlg/Quran_and_science.htm

In verses 36:38–40 we read the following (my emphasis):

36:38 “And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing. 36:39 And the Moon, — We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk. 36:40 It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day; each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).”

What? “It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon?” The above verse is either ridiculous or wrong, depending on whether we try to understand it from the modern perspective or from the Bedouins’ perspective, respectively. Here is why:



  From the modern perspective, to say that the Sun tries to catch up the Moon (but is not permitted to do so) is laughably naïve. The Moon’s orbit around the Earth has no overlap with the Sun’s location in space, since the Moon orbits the Earth once in around 27.3 days (the “sidereal month”), and the system Earth–Moon orbits the Sun once per year (see diagram).



The orbit of the Moon (gray) around the Earth’s orbit (blue circle) and around the Sun (red, center).
Note: not drawn to scale, and also the Moon completes approximately 13 turns in a year, not exactly 13.
Observation from this diagram: to say that the Sun, in reality, “tries to catch up the Moon”, makes no sense at all.

So, because according to what we know today it is just plain stupid to say that the Sun tries to catch up the Moon, there is only one possibility: that verse 36:40 was said that way for the Bedouins to make some sense of it. But in that case,... it’s wrong again!

Seeing as you did the same thing with the first 'miracle' of the mosque, I'm assuming you want to do the same thing with the 'miracle' of the absurd Sun/Moon quote, so I'm saying go for it. Let's have the next one seeing as you have nothing to challenge my take-down of your 'miracles.'

[redsn0w]

36:38 - And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.

36:39 - And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.   

36:40 - It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).

These tells about day and night and also tells that they are travelling through it's own path.

These are interesting Quran verses, then who "wrote" them knew all these things before other. Then I think this is really awesome, and also a prove that the quran is not only a book but a really "knowledge" of everything.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Because I'm the only one presenting objectively reasoned facts to prove your claims towards 'miracles' in your book as being utter tripe. You just keep on repeating the same text as though that somehow qualifies as an answer.

Have you took the time to read what you quoted?

What? “It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon?” The above verse is either ridiculous or wrong, depending on whether we try to understand it from the modern perspective or from the Bedouins’ perspective, respectively.

Wrong understanding.

Here is why:

[ img]http://www.foundalis.com/rlg/Sun-Moon.gif[/img]

  From the modern perspective, to say that the Sun tries to catch up the Moon (but is not permitted to do so) is laughably naïve.

Tries to catch up? You must be kidding! In Qur'an it is mentioned "not permitted to sun to catch up moon". You are making mistranslation.

The orbit of the Moon (gray) around the Earth’s orbit (blue circle) and around the Sun (red, center).
Note: not drawn to scale, and also the Moon completes approximately 13 turns in a year, not exactly 13.
Observation from this diagram: to say that the Sun, in reality, “tries to catch up the Moon”, makes no sense at all.

Right.

So, because according to what we know today it is just plain stupid to say that the Sun tries to catch up the Moon, there is only one possibility: that verse 36:40 was said that way for the Bedouins to make some sense of it. But in that case,... it’s wrong again!

Read the verse correctly. It never said sun tries to catch uo the moon. Blatant lie!

Seeing as you did the same thing with the first 'miracle' of the mosque, I'm assuming you want to do the same thing with the 'miracle' of the absurd Sun/Moon quote, so I'm saying go for it. Let's have the next one seeing as you have nothing to challenge my take-down of your 'miracles.'

I can't comment on "Mosque" as it looks like photoshopped. However, it may or may not be true. I haven't researched about it.

[cryptodevil]

Read the verse correctly. It never said sun tries to catch uo the moon. Blatant lie!

Stop being so dishonest. You know damn well that to claim the Sun is not PERMITTED to do something is to imply that it may otherwise attempt to.

I forbid you to float up into the air! There, you are not permitted to float up into the air. Does that make me somehow the being responsible for you not being able to float up into the air?

[Netpyder]

Read the verse correctly. It never said sun tries to catch uo the moon. Blatant lie!

Stop being so dishonest. You know damn well that to claim the Sun is not PERMITTED to do something is to imply that it may otherwise attempt to.

I forbid you to float up into the air! There, you are not permitted to float up into the air. Does that make me somehow the being responsible for you not being able to float up into the air?

you really need to read your comment before you post them. you twist lines so much that in the end you make fun of yourself.

[cryptodevil]

I can't comment on "Mosque" as it looks like photoshopped. However, it may or may not be true. I haven't researched about it.

There's no reason to suspect it is photoshopped, simply understanding basic science would explain why the MOST SOLIDLY built structure in the vicinity managed to survive while those NOT BUILT TO THE SAME STANDARD as the mosque, were swept away.

[Netpyder]

I can't comment on "Mosque" as it looks like photoshopped. However, it may or may not be true. I haven't researched about it.

There's no reason to suspect it is photoshopped, simply understanding basic science would explain why the MOST SOLIDLY built structure in the vicinity managed to survive while those NOT BUILT TO THE SAME STANDARD as the mosque, were swept away.

just to reply this quickly, there were hotels around....

[cryptodevil]

you really need to read your comment before you post them. you twist lines so much that in the end you make fun of yourself.

Oh, ok, you're just sticking with "I know you are, but what am I?" level of infantile response.

Thanks for the debate about how great your book is. You managed to prove without doubt that it isn't by way of your failure to rebut any of the objectively reasoned challenges made towards your 'miracles'.

[cryptodevil]

just to reply this quickly, there were hotels around....

Built to the same top-quality standard that the neighbourhood mosque would be? Prove it.

[Netpyder]

just to reply this quickly, there were hotels around....

Built to the same top-quality standard that the neighbourhood mosque would be? Prove it.

dude hotels.. HOTEL their quality standard are far better than how mosque are built.

now, do you mean mosques are built in the highest quality standards? probably i should built my home that way even if a tsunami comes to the island, i will be safe inside

[cryptodevil]

just to reply this quickly, there were hotels around....

Built to the same top-quality standard that the neighbourhood mosque would be? Prove it.

dude hotels.. HOTEL their quality standard are far better than how mosque are built.

now, do you mean mosques are built in the highest quality standards? probably i should built my home that way even if a tsunami comes to the island, i will be safe inside

You are asserting something you have yet to provide evidence for. Some hotels might be better built than SOME mosques but, in general, especially in poverty-stricken areas, the local mosque is built of top quality stone and marble because, you know, god n'all.

For your assertion that an equally-strong hotel was destroyed near the still-surviving mosque, please circle within that picture where the hotel once stood. We should at least get an idea of the type of building material the hotel was constructed with.

I'm betting it wasn't solid stone and marble.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Atop being so dishonest. You know damn well that to claim the Sun is not PERMITTED to do something is to imply that it may otherwise attempt to.

I forbid you to float up into the air! There, you are not permitted to float up into the air. Does that make me somehow the being responsible for you not being able to float up into the air?

There is a slight difference in "Sun tries to catch up moon but it isn't permitted" and "It isn't permitted for Sun to catch up moon".

Don't twist verses according to your likes. Qur'an consists of some of the excellent poetry too. Don't pretend to be a fool, I know you are not.

I don't know how you will twist this:

36:39 - And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.

[cryptodevil]

There is a slight difference in "Sun tries to catch up moon but it isn't permitted" and "It isn't permitted for Sun to catch up moon".

Don't twist verses according to your likes.

I'm not twisting anything, the phrase "It isn't permitted" implies that permission is not given for something, would you at least agree with that so far? In that you claim that the author of your books says your god did not give permission for the Sun to catch up with the moon, would that not be as asinine as me not giving you permission to float up into the air?

The Prophet asked me at sunset, “Do you know where the Sun goes (at the time of sunset)?” I replied, “Allah and His Apostle know better.” He said, “It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the Sun runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’” (36.38)

Which part of that quote suggests anything other than ignorance about our Solar System?

You, as most theists tend to do, are the one cherry-picking small quotes (bad ones at that) and attributing meaning to them they simply do not possess and, when taken in the wider context of the surrounding text, generally prove that the book is full of much ignorance and woo.

I don't know how you will twist this:

36:39 - And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.

I don't know how you suggest this is even meaningful. Is this meant to be another 'miracle' or are you still hacking away at the dead horse of the Sun/Moon absurdity?

[Muhammed Zakir]

I'm not twisting anything, the phrase "It isn't permitted" implies that permission is not given for something, would you at least agree with that so far?

Agreed.

In that you claim that the author of your books says your god did not give permission for the Sun to catch up with the moon, would that not be as asinine as me not giving you permission to float up into the air?

Aha! Now I understand where you are wrong. It is God's words, not a human's. There is no author for Qur'an, what you see is God's words. However, it was earlier orally transmitted from one person to other and when people who learned fully started dying, it was bundled as a book.

[quote
]The Prophet asked me at sunset, “Do you know where the Sun goes (at the time of sunset)?” I replied, “Allah and His Apostle know better.” He said, “It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the Sun runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’” (36.38)

Which part of that quote suggests anything other than ignorance about our Solar System?
[/quote]

It is regarding Allah and the solar system. This is hard to swallow for you.

Qur'an never ignores solar system. If yes, these verses shouldn't even be there. It is poetical verses. You shouldn't understand directly.

You, as most theists tend to do, are the one cherry-picking small quotes (bad ones at that) and attributing meaning to them they simply do not possess and, when taken in the wider context of the surrounding text, generally prove that the book is full of much ignorance and woo.

You can't find mistakes. Don't you even know how "poet" looks? There will be metaphors too.

I don't know how you will twist this:

36:39 - And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.

I don't know how you suggest this is even meaningful. Is this meant to be another 'miracle' or are you still hacking away at the dead horse of the Sun/Moon absurdity?

It is a metaphor. Think about it. If you know different shapes of moon and how old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk looks, you will understand.

[holdembot]

Hate to burst your cookierun bubble but you keep apparently quoting the use of the word orbit in arabic in the cookierun.

Sadly the first use and definition of the word orbit came long after the cookierun were written so your assertion that they even used the word orbit is pure speculation and yet again your own interpretation of whatever the hell the arabic word should mean today.

Origin
Mid 16th century (in sense 3 of the noun): from Latin orbita 'course, track' (in medieval Latin 'eye socket'), feminine of orbitus 'circular', from orbis 'ring'.


That said, all holy scriptures read just like the entries in Nostrodamus daily diary. Vague as shit and can be interpreted in a thousand different ways.

[cryptodevil]

It is a metaphor. Think about it. If you know different shapes of moon and how old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk looks, you will understand.

FFS, please decide whether you want to play your 'miracle' cards as "amazing science facts nobody could have known about at the time" and "Hey, lighten up, it's just a metaphor, it has meaning and depth and . . .[insert equally vapid nonsense here]"

You can't have it both ways. Either you are presenting 'miracles' of there being scientifically-sound assertions within that book or you're wanting to discuss metaphors and poetry, which isn't the topic of this thread.

Do you know what intellectual integrity means? Serious question.

[Spendulus]

I can't comment on "Mosque" as it looks like photoshopped. However, it may or may not be true. I haven't researched about it.

There's no reason to suspect it is photoshopped, simply understanding basic science would explain why the MOST SOLIDLY built structure in the vicinity managed to survive while those NOT BUILT TO THE SAME STANDARD as the mosque, were swept away.

That close to the ocean, how would you have a good foundation?  It's not impossible, say they dug ten meters down and started piling rock up to the surface, then built the mosque.  Just unlikely. 

IF IT'S NOT PHOTOSHOPPED....then let's have the location of that beach and mosque and we'll look at it on Google Earth.

[redsn0w]

It is a metaphor. Think about it. If you know different shapes of moon and how old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk looks, you will understand.

FFS, please decide whether you want to play your 'miracle' cards as "amazing science facts nobody could have known about at the time" and "Hey, lighten up, it's just a metaphor, it has meaning and depth and . . .[insert equally vapid nonsense here]"

You can't have it both ways. Either you are presenting 'miracles' of there being scientifically-sound assertions within that book or you're wanting to discuss metaphors and poetry, which isn't the topic of this thread.

Do you know what intellectual integrity means? Serious question.

Can I ask you , where is the problem if someone think those things are a miracle because they are written a lot of years before "the civilization[/in]". Everyone's free to believe at whatever he wants or am I wrong? The only things he should not it is to force other people to believe to those things.

[cryptodevil]

Can I ask you , where is the problem if someone think those things are a miracle because they are written a lot of years before "the civilization[/in]". Everyone's free to believe at whatever he wants or am I wrong? The only things he should not it is to force other people to believe to those things.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own facts.

If you start a thread titled, "Miracles of Quran", expect to be asked to objectively prove your claim. Otherwise you're just demanding we all stfu and listen to the bullshit 'wisdom' being spouted by the delusional and intellectually dishonest.