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Author Topic: Where to go?  (Read 5555 times)
kloinko1n
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May 28, 2011, 02:32:34 PM
 #21

I would surely stay on the southern hemisphere as all most of the nuclear weapons are located on and pointing at locations on the northern hemisphere. The nice thing about the southern hemisphere (apart from the fact that there is that beautiful country Brazil! Que saudades!) is that northern and southern hemisphere are separated by the equator, which acts as a screen between northern and southern air currents.
You must have gotten the point already: in case of a nuclear war (and the USA has no more money for a conventional one, so nuclear is the cheapest next option) you should be much safer on the southern, than on the northern hemisphere.

As soon as you see all kinds of royalty and Goldman Sachs CEOs going on 'holiday' somewhere far south, then you'll know it's the time Smiley

Anyway, if I were you (or any Brazilian citizen) I wouldn't leave Brazil if I had a decent income there...
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May 28, 2011, 09:22:06 PM
 #22

Brazil is good if you are absurdly rich, the level of corruption makes life way easier to rich people...

But I am not absurdly rich...




Also, to @caveden blaming slavery on the Brazillian imperial family is rather naive, the reasons Brazil was the last one to abolish slavery is more related to the ruralists (that are the current MDB, by the way...). If you read texts written by the imperial family, they wanted a end to slavery, but every time they attempted it, they had problems with the ruralists, in the end they just decided to "screw it" and declared end of slavery anyway. That triggered the ruralists to support the republicans, leading to the emperor resignation (yes, the emperor resigned... he was republican himself... he even felt betrayed after he got exiled, he believed he would be able to live a normal retired civilian life in Brazil).

I am not saying monarchy was perfect, far from it, but we do have a significant propaganda against monarchy, without people taking their time to actually study it.

The same applies to Vargas... I dislike many things that he did, including the CLT, but you have to think about why he did the things he did, the CLT itself solved many problems when it was made, the reason CLT is now a curse, is because the left (PT and leftwards from that I mean...) refuses to let it to be modernized, with the problems that CLT was intended to fix do not existing anymore, it became problematic (for example, the huge fine for firing someone, was invented because Vargas foreseen that the CLT would trigger mass firings... indeed, the fine worked, and made people retain the workers, but now the huge fine is only another reason to avoid hiring people, causing unemployment).



Also I do not think the military government was the best one ever, some democratically elected presidents did much better, but in many aspects they are better than the current government (that is soon going to be more strict than the military... already noticed how the gun laws keep being tightened and how the cops this month beat-up some protesters, and that to make a protest now you need judicial permission? It makes no sense that you have to ask judicial permission to protest...)



@imanikin

I do not want to move away from myself, I want to move closer to like-minded people.

kloinko1n
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May 29, 2011, 07:09:58 PM
 #23

@speeder : I thought the 'fine' was some kind of contribution to the retirement of the workers, as in my (very limited) knowledge participation in a retirement fund is not obligatory and seldom practiced. So instead of the employer constantly (i.e. monthly) putting money in a retirement fund, the employee gets it with his dismissal.

And re slavery, it even continued after the so called abolishment, and with happy participation of the Dutch who kept sending ships full of 'galinhas' to Bahia (or was is Ceara?), as I have understood it. The Dutch were the last to stop trading slaves. So much for christian mentality... Wink
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May 29, 2011, 11:49:40 PM
 #24

I have the same problem.

All the big countries involve different kinds of insanity, but there is none that got rid of all of them.

I'm currently in Germany, but it appears the country has decided to "embrace" the future in turtle mode. I've thought about many others, but each has some problems. Currently, I consider:

Liechtenstein
Japan
USA
Canada
Switzerland

But that's because I can speak German and am learning Japanese -- someone limited to English might find some choices less suitable.

Liechtenstein is epic, but SO SMALL. No matter how great the setup, it's totally endangered by anything big making a move. Japan has the most awesome feeling to live at, but also has a huge debt and people who love rules, no matter how silly. And so on. There's just no obvious choice.
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May 30, 2011, 03:05:07 PM
 #25

Also, to @caveden blaming slavery on the Brazillian imperial family is rather naive, the reasons Brazil was the last one to abolish slavery is more related to the ruralists (that are the current MDB, by the way...). If you read texts written by the imperial family, they wanted a end to slavery, but every time they attempted it, they had problems with the ruralists, in the end they just decided to "screw it" and declared end of slavery anyway. That triggered the ruralists to support the republicans, leading to the emperor resignation (yes, the emperor resigned... he was republican himself... he even felt betrayed after he got exiled, he believed he would be able to live a normal retired civilian life in Brazil).

OK, I grant you that, you may be right. I've never read such texts from the imperial family.

The same applies to Vargas... I dislike many things that he did, including the CLT, but you have to think about why he did the things he did, the CLT itself solved many problems when it was made

But not this. Labor laws do no good, and the stronger they are, the more damage they do. Labor is a contract between parties, nobody else has anything to do with how these parties do it, pretty much like marriage actually.
The CLT was always a problem, it's a quite authoritarian set of labor laws.

Also I do not think the military government was the best one ever, some democratically elected presidents did much better, but in many aspects they are better than the current government (that is soon going to be more strict than the military... already noticed how the gun laws keep being tightened and how the cops this month beat-up some protesters, and that to make a protest now you need judicial permission? It makes no sense that you have to ask judicial permission to protest...)

That's a pessimist view, but you might be right. I just hope it doesn't get to that point.... if it gets, well, I am screwed! Tongue I've already criticized government so much out on the open of the internet, that I would probably go to jail the day I step in a Brazil "more strict than the military [dictatorship]".

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May 30, 2011, 05:09:05 PM
 #26

The CLT was some emergencial laws to fix the economy, they DID fixed the economy at that time, but now broke everything Sad


CLT for example with the 13 salary, increased spending in the end of the year (when everyone hoarded, because of the taxes that the government asks payment on january), and several of other CLT measures was to make people risk more, the problem at that time was massive hoarding, the CLT made people stop hoarding, and the fine for firing someone, intended to make all the employed people remain employed. It worked, at that time, it really fixed the economy... Unfortunately, Vargas planned to revoke the laws after some years, but he got removed from government first, and the laws stuck.


Maybe it was not the best solution possible for the problems, but it was a clever one anyway.


But I am anti-CLT myself too, I work selling products actually (I am software architect... I sell the architecture, not my services... although I work within my client building, he pays for my product, instead of renting my work, even if the end result is still a stable monthly payment).

Jaime Frontero
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May 31, 2011, 08:38:35 PM
 #27

i've lived on four continents, and learned a very valuable thing about doing so.

it doesn't matter where you are - you make your own life.

from a security standpoint, the best place to live is the place where you have the best and most instinctive grasp of "the rules".  (i.e.; the confluence of those legal, social and ethical constraints which make up any large entity like a country)

as a matter of pure practicality, this almost always means the country of your birth.  you will do better and stay safer.

of course there are exceptions.  north korea comes to mind.

but for the most part...
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June 01, 2011, 12:18:13 PM
 #28

Jaime I really doubt that I would stay safe where I live...

In my neighborhood people being killed is so common we do not even care anymore. Here, the lastest news told by the daily women gossip over walls is:

"Hey, do you know the lastest person that died?"

And even where I work, inside a fortified city with guards and cameras everywhere, two coworkers still got kidnapped and taken to a slum, where his kidnappers almost entered in a firefight with the drug lords (the coworkers, that survived the incident, told us that the drug lords got pissed with people making robberies on their turf, and threatened to shoot down the kidnappers and their victims)







Anyway, I returned to the topic, because I`ve heard of Singapore, seemly very low taxes, easy entry, declared as the freest economy of the world... the only thing that bother people is their fake republic government (in the last elections for example, the candidates of the opposition parties got declared "invalid" and the ruling party won again, by default, and that same party is winning since the 50s...)

So, what you people think of Singapore?

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June 01, 2011, 12:29:06 PM
 #29

Not being a democracy by itself is not a problem. It seems things in Singapore work better than most places in the world.
The only bad thing I heard is that they have some draconian laws regarding behaviors... like, throwing garbage on the street may put you in jail. Drugs, prostitution etc are severely punished and so on.

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speeder
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June 01, 2011, 12:46:35 PM
 #30

Not being a democracy by itself is not a problem. It seems things in Singapore work better than most places in the world.
The only bad thing I heard is that they have some draconian laws regarding behaviors... like, throwing garbage on the street may put you in jail. Drugs, prostitution etc are severely punished and so on.


As long they do not intrude into personal private lives (ie: what you do at home with your family), I am quite fine with that, I dislike all those things anyway...

Jaime Frontero
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June 01, 2011, 05:23:18 PM
 #31

Jaime I really doubt that I would stay safe where I live...

In my neighborhood people being killed is so common we do not even care anymore. Here, the lastest news told by the daily women gossip over walls is:

"Hey, do you know the lastest person that died?"

And even where I work, inside a fortified city with guards and cameras everywhere, two coworkers still got kidnapped and taken to a slum, where his kidnappers almost entered in a firefight with the drug lords (the coworkers, that survived the incident, told us that the drug lords got pissed with people making robberies on their turf, and threatened to shoot down the kidnappers and their victims)







Anyway, I returned to the topic, because I`ve heard of Singapore, seemly very low taxes, easy entry, declared as the freest economy of the world... the only thing that bother people is their fake republic government (in the last elections for example, the candidates of the opposition parties got declared "invalid" and the ruling party won again, by default, and that same party is winning since the 50s...)

So, what you people think of Singapore?

it sounds like yes - it's probably a good place to leave.  i hate violent places.

what do i think of singapore?  in a way, i hate places like that even worse.  i've been there, and i've never been able to erase the impression that it's like living in a large ant-colony.  it's basically a pure oligarchy.  people are whipped ('caned') for littering, and a hundred other infractions.  if your car breaks down on certain highways, a helicopter comes and lifts it away, then drops it destructively away from traffic: you are charged heavily for the favor.

and of course, one is very heavily surveilled.  that twisted wreck of a car was required (as are all vehicles) to have a tracking chip in it - and if it isn't picked up and taken to a junk yard within a very few hours, you will be charged further.

singapore is a very... efficient... place.  or - from a different point of view - disneyland for the rich, with about zero social mobility.

if you have the money and don't mind living behind walls, without intercourse with that part of humanity which may be even slightly different, or less wealthy that you are, then perhaps it is for you.  i could never live like that.
speeder
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June 01, 2011, 06:33:00 PM
 #32

I understand what you are saying.

And it resembles the city where I work... (although the city is not wealthy yet to lift cars with helicopers, they probably would if possible).

It is not much different from my current life (my house is walled and I do not talk with neighbors... the single time I walked on the street to buy coca-cola on a nearby bar, some people asked if I was foreigner...), except safer (And with no crackheads on my backyard... yes, that happened to me once, people hiding on my backyard to use heavy drugs).

Only, that I am not wealthy :/ (and if I remain here I will never be... although my salary is very high for the standards here, it is half of what it is paid in other countries for the same job).

kidgorgeous
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June 02, 2011, 06:33:43 PM
 #33

Heres a plan:

1. Acquire island (anyone selling an island for bitcoin? I hear greece is hard up for some money these days)
2. Set up a technate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_Incorporated
3. Make bitcoin legal tender of formed technate (bitcoin is in many ways an ideal currency for a technocracy, atleast ideologically)
4. Invite bitcoiners/techie/hacker types to live on said island. Create the first technology oriented society.

I'll quit rambling now.


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Jaime Frontero
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June 03, 2011, 04:52:39 AM
 #34

Heres a plan:

1. Acquire island (anyone selling an island for bitcoin? I hear greece is hard up for some money these days)
2. Set up a technate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_Incorporated
3. Make bitcoin legal tender of formed technate (bitcoin is in many ways an ideal currency for a technocracy, atleast ideologically)
4. Invite bitcoiners/techie/hacker types to live on said island. Create the first technology oriented society.

I'll quit rambling now.



then get Hari Seldon to create psychohistory.

PROFIT!!!
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