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Author Topic: ANNOUNCEMENT: Stop getting trolled by taxes, it's time to put an end to Tax Day  (Read 3491 times)
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April 16, 2015, 01:49:56 AM
 #21

great project

I wonder how to ensure the safety of pool's money , are there some kinds of multisig or precautions to prevent the pool keeper takes all bitcoins run away like evolution ?
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April 16, 2015, 02:50:01 AM
 #22

great project

I wonder how to ensure the safety of pool's money , are there some kinds of multisig or precautions to prevent the pool keeper takes all bitcoins run away like evolution ?


That will the most difficult task because no one can trust other person so it will be very difficult to come up with a solution to safeguard the pool money. Does anyone have any idea?

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April 16, 2015, 03:05:18 AM
 #23

great project

I wonder how to ensure the safety of pool's money , are there some kinds of multisig or precautions to prevent the pool keeper takes all bitcoins run away like evolution ?


That will the most difficult task because no one can trust other person so it will be very difficult to come up with a solution to safeguard the pool money. Does anyone have any idea?

What are you talking about? I figured you would just sign a message proving ownership of X number of bitcoins. No need to transfer them out of your control.

I think it's a very interesting idea, and could eliminate at least a little of the noise ratio in a forum compared to what we have now. I'm going to give it a try.

One question: Will be be possible to aggregate signed messages from multiple accounts to prove our ownership of "X" BTC? For example, I have a bit over 10 BTC in one account, 3 more in another, some at Coinbase, and odds and ends at a few altcoin exchanges. Will I be able to provide multiple signatures proving my total BTC net worth, or will I only be able to provide the proof of ownership for the 10 BTC account?

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April 16, 2015, 03:27:55 AM
Last edit: April 16, 2015, 03:44:47 AM by D05GTO
 #24

Like your ideas and the community is great. Here is one of the communities that is land based.  http://www.iiicitadel.com/index.html

Maybe you could make some connections there to have some land base also.


 
 
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April 16, 2015, 03:37:34 AM
 #25

My 2 cents... there is only 2 things guranteed in this world, death and taxes
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April 16, 2015, 05:59:13 AM
 #26

great project

I wonder how to ensure the safety of pool's money , are there some kinds of multisig or precautions to prevent the pool keeper takes all bitcoins run away like evolution ?


That will the most difficult task because no one can trust other person so it will be very difficult to come up with a solution to safeguard the pool money. Does anyone have any idea?

What are you talking about? I figured you would just sign a message proving ownership of X number of bitcoins. No need to transfer them out of your control.

I think it's a very interesting idea, and could eliminate at least a little of the noise ratio in a forum compared to what we have now. I'm going to give it a try.

One question: Will be be possible to aggregate signed messages from multiple accounts to prove our ownership of "X" BTC? For example, I have a bit over 10 BTC in one account, 3 more in another, some at Coinbase, and odds and ends at a few altcoin exchanges. Will I be able to provide multiple signatures proving my total BTC net worth, or will I only be able to provide the proof of ownership for the 10 BTC account?

You are correct, the pool does not hold any money. Using the blockchain we can verify that you hold the funds.

We currently only allow one address but multiple addresses is definitely in the works.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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April 16, 2015, 06:29:37 AM
 #27

What is the minimum requirement to join? Hopefully not 500 Bitcoins? ...

I do not see, how this will stop "shills" ....Their masters have big pockets... They can just buy a bunch of Bitcoins for their "shills" and get approved to join the forum.

You could just allow everyone, and "moderate" the people, who are identified as "trolls or shills". The only reason it is not working here and on Reddit, is because moderators allow for freedom of speech.

I hope this will not exclude financially "poor" people, from having a voice. Bitcoin should be for everyone, not just for a elite group of rich people.  Sad { I know people, who are currently unemployed, and live from income derived from Bitcoin, who has brilliant minds and make exellent contributions to the community... it would be sad to exclude them, based on their financial status} 

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April 16, 2015, 06:56:17 AM
 #28

What is the minimum requirement to join? Hopefully not 500 Bitcoins? ...

I do not see, how this will stop "shills" ....Their masters have big pockets... They can just buy a bunch of Bitcoins for their "shills" and get approved to join the forum.

You could just allow everyone, and "moderate" the people, who are identified as "trolls or shills". The only reason it is not working here and on Reddit, is because moderators allow for freedom of speech.

I hope this will not exclude financially "poor" people, from having a voice. Bitcoin should be for everyone, not just for a elite group of rich people.  Sad { I know people, who are currently unemployed, and live from income derived from Bitcoin, who has brilliant minds and make exellent contributions to the community... it would be sad to exclude them, based on their financial status} 

There will be different minimums for different discussions. The sitewide minimum is 1 mBTC (about 22 cents).

The shills tend to be invested in alt coins or have no bitcoins at all.

A Bitrated link to user profiles will help as well.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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April 16, 2015, 07:04:28 AM
 #29

I'm afraid it's a bit early for a serious bitcoin crowdfunding. We'll have to wait for bitcoin price to reach 5K$ at least. Or 50K$.

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April 16, 2015, 07:15:00 AM
 #30

interesting.  is the ultimate goal to  lead it up to having our own  nation, btcnation? serious question.   

The ultimate goal is a sovereign nation.

As the technical adviser for the project on all things network related I have made it clear that the seastead has to be able to have access to Bitcoin and most people are ok with Bitcoin as the seastead currency.

However, the first seastead will not be sovereign. Our goal for the first project will be to address the engineering hurdles and the business aspect of it. As such we will likely be located in a harbor where real estate values are very high (and under the legal jurisdiction of the host country), essentially creating real estate in an environment where every square foot is expensive. This allows for the capital to succeed and the ability to replicate the process for more seasteads which can then become their own sovereign entities.

One of the main businesses will be a data center where the cooling aspect of the sea can be used to cool the computers (and using several options for cheap energy). This will be very useful for a mining operation.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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April 16, 2015, 07:24:06 AM
 #31

I'm afraid it's a bit early for a serious bitcoin crowdfunding. We'll have to wait for bitcoin price to reach 5K$ at least. Or 50K$.

This is what I like about the low price right now.

People can start coordinating now with a set amount of bitcoins that are reasonable for the average person. Then as the price grows, the opportunities for success grow with it.


For example, the initial seastead platform is estimated to cost about $5 million. If the seasteading pool can gather 100 people with 10 bitcoins each (at current prices that is about $2200) they can plan and coordinate their preferences. When the bitcoin price reaches $5k, those 100 people have the funds to execute their plan.

Same for any other project that requires time and coordination.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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April 16, 2015, 07:48:57 AM
 #32

I used to be into seasteading. Let me tell you there are a million things you haven't thought of.

If you really want to do it then buy an island:
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/alligator-caye-parcel
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/coral-island2

It still won't work, but its cheaper than a boat for far more area and unlike a boat it will not need brutal amounts of maintenance.

Things you haven't thought of:
Maintenance - Boats rust, even glasfiber boats need to be taken up once a year and painted etc..
Cost - Land is pretty cheap even in urban areas compared to a boat. Large boats costs millions. Remote areas of land where you could do whatever can be gotten for very little.
Jobs - What will people do? Even if we assume that our liberal ideas would create a 100 times better economy its pretty hard building an economy with 20 people on a boat/remote island.
Supplies - Remote as you are almost everything will have to be flown or shipped out to you adding even more cost/making you need a second ship/plane.
Seasickness.
How to get to the doctor.
Entertainment in a small area.
All the politics - Anarchy hur hur is great and all, but who decides where the boat goes or what to invest in. What is the political framework for dealing with a guy raping his daughter or is that fine? I'm guess there's a thing or two there you haven't considered in your dreams of blue waters and escaping the state.
Guns you need guns for pirates.
Internet - You won't have it that far out, not fast anyway. Wifi bridges can shoot 20km if you're static at the coast, but it's something to consider.
Power - How do you make it? You can't afford something big and efficient/the boat can't hold it so you would have to use a diesel generator and solar panels and shop each month for expensive fuel.
Also solar panels break/degrade after 10-20 years and give relatively little power in the meantime.
Housing - Can you build a house? Plumbing? Wires? Insulation? AC?
Women - Even if you have one she will go mental on you after a month at sea, most women will anyway.

Trust me I wanted to do this myself.
Do what I do now: Use crypto to hide WITHIN the existing states. Why should I run from my own country? I will take it back.

(Nifty idea with the BTC to speak thing.)

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April 16, 2015, 07:55:17 AM
 #33

I used to be into seasteading. Let me tell you there are a million things you haven't thought of.

If you really want to do it then buy an island:
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/alligator-caye-parcel
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/coral-island2

It still won't work, but its cheaper than a boat for far more area and unlike a boat it will not need brutal amounts of maintenance.

Things you haven't thought of:
Maintenance - Boats rust, even glasfiber boats need to be taken up once a year and painted etc..
Cost - Land is pretty cheap even in urban areas compared to a boat. Large boats costs millions. Remote areas of land where you could do whatever can be gotten for very little.
Jobs - What will people do? Even if we assume that our liberal ideas would create a 100 times better economy its pretty hard building an economy with 20 people on a boat/remote island.
Supplies - Remote as you are almost everything will have to be flown or shipped out to you adding even more cost/making you need a second ship/plane.
Seasickness.
How to get to the doctor.
Entertainment in a small area.
All the politics - Anarchy hur hur is great and all, but who decides where the boat goes or what to invest in. What is the political framework for dealing with a guy raping his daughter or is that fine? I'm guess there's a thing or two there you haven't considered in your dreams of blue waters and escaping the state.
Guns you need guns for pirates.
Internet - You won't have it that far out, not fast anyway. Wifi bridges can shoot 20km if you're static at the coast, but it's something to consider.
Power - How do you make it? You can't afford something big and efficient/the boat can't hold it so you would have to use a diesel generator and solar panels and shop each month for expensive fuel.
Also solar panels break/degrade after 10-20 years and give relatively little power in the meantime.
Housing - Can you build a house? Plumbing? Wires? Insulation? AC?
Women - Even if you have one she will go mental on you after a month at sea, most women will anyway.

Trust me I wanted to do this myself.
Do what I do now: Use crypto to hide WITHIN the existing states. Why should I run from my own country? I will take it back.

(Nifty idea with the BTC to speak thing.)

Before you say you know what I have not thought of, I have been involved in the seasteading community for almost a decade.

We will have a seastead, we have a path forward. It will happen.

Everything you listed has been addressed long ago (other than the every woman being crazy thing).

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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April 16, 2015, 10:36:00 AM
 #34

Before you say you know what I have not thought of, I have been involved in the seasteading community for almost a decade.

We will have a seastead, we have a path forward. It will happen.

Everything you listed has been addressed long ago (other than the every woman being crazy thing).
I'm not saying you can't get on a boat, I'm saying it might be difficult to have what most people consider a normal life there and even if you can you'll probably end up paying more for it than otherwise needed.

If you have a solution to all those things I wouldn't mind hearing them or seeing links. If you just really really want to wish away the problems and daydream I'll leave you to it.

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April 16, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
 #35

Before you say you know what I have not thought of, I have been involved in the seasteading community for almost a decade.

We will have a seastead, we have a path forward. It will happen.

Everything you listed has been addressed long ago (other than the every woman being crazy thing).
I'm not saying you can't get on a boat, I'm saying it might be difficult to have what most people consider a normal life there and even if you can you'll probably end up paying more for it than otherwise needed.

If you have a solution to all those things I wouldn't mind hearing them or seeing links. If you just really really want to wish away the problems and daydream I'll leave you to it.

Ok, while many solutions are discussed ad nauseum among seasteaders and no one solution is the best I will address what you listed:

Quote
Maintenance - Boats rust, even glasfiber boats need to be taken up once a year and painted etc..
We're not talking about a boat here, we're talking about platforms (around 50 to 100 meters wide) that can interlock and expand to a city sized seastead.
The popular consensus has been that it should be built out of concrete. This will last hundreds if not thousands of years. One of our experts has built similar structures and there are many working examples of floating concrete platforms (one even has a landing strip on it).

Quote
Cost - Land is pretty cheap even in urban areas compared to a boat. Large boats costs millions. Remote areas of land where you could do whatever can be gotten for very little.
Cost is certainly a factor. You could buy something in middle of the US but the first million dollars that your community brings in will get the attention of the government.
Our initial estimates on cost using concrete are fairly comparable to oceanfront real estate. As the platform can float and be located anywhere we are looking at affluent harbors where real estate prices are in the millions. That makes our housing options very competitive giving a good return on investment.

Quote
Jobs - What will people do? Even if we assume that our liberal ideas would create a 100 times better economy its pretty hard building an economy with 20 people on a boat/remote island.
The seastead will be far more than 20 people. The investment group has planned to build at least 6 businesses into the initial structure with one business actually being the building of more seasteads. It will likely be a tourist destination which will provide plenty of monetary inflow.

Quote
Supplies - Remote as you are almost everything will have to be flown or shipped out to you adding even more cost/making you need a second ship/plane.
The initial seastead will not be remote. But we have certainly discussed such a thing down the line. The seastead community will need to be large enough to warrant such a move which comes with several costs such as breakwaters, mooring and several other factors including establishing a trade route. The popular opinion being that we should position it within an established trade route and take advantage of that as a hub.

Quote
Seasickness.
Waves and saltwater are the constant issue being addressed when it comes to engineering. Like I said, the initial one will be in a harbor because we will be focusing first on engineering and a viable business model. Breakwaters and designs to minimize wave impact are a constant discussion.

Quote
How to get to the doctor.
It is our hope that a medical facility will be one of the main businesses providing medical tourism. People are willing to fly to foreign countries for lower cost medical treatments due to a lot less red tape and more freedom. Medical advances will likely thrive on a seastead.

Quote
Entertainment in a small area.
Entertainment will be abundant. Swimming, fishing, SCUBA, nightclubs, concerts, boating, jet skis, you name it.

Quote
All the politics - Anarchy hur hur is great and all, but who decides where the boat goes or what to invest in. What is the political framework for dealing with a guy raping his daughter or is that fine? I'm guess there's a thing or two there you haven't considered in your dreams of blue waters and escaping the state.
There will likely be different political structures for each seastead. Initially we will be under the laws of whichever nation we fly our flag under and whichever nation's harbor we are docked in will have limited jurisdiction, there are many legal issues that have been discussed when it comes to nation laws and distance from land. When it comes to seasteads outside of the EEZ, each seastead will have to come up with the societal structure that they like best. And with multiple of these, we can essentially have government startups. Some will succeed, others will fail. When you can float your house away to another seastead, there will be competition to keep people.

Quote
Guns you need guns for pirates.
While we will not be settling in in heavily pirate populated areas, there will be no shortage of guns owned by seasteaders.

Quote
Internet - You won't have it that far out, not fast anyway. Wifi bridges can shoot 20km if you're static at the coast, but it's something to consider.
Just like with trade routes, ideally we would set up in a place where we can become an Internet hub with underwater cables. As most telecom people can tell you. It is not the cost of the fiber that is expensive but the cost of laying the cable (government fees, regulations, lobbying, etc). There can also be satellite which is more expensive and not good for real time streaming but will be good for redundancy. In a harbor we will likely do a microwave type of setup, wifi and underwater cable.

Quote
Power - How do you make it? You can't afford something big and efficient/the boat can't hold it so you would have to use a diesel generator and solar panels and shop each month for expensive fuel.
Power will be abundant with the power of the sea. OTEC (Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion), wind, wave power, solar, hydrogen producing algae, etc. Many people suggest selling electricity to the host nation but I think we could use any excess electricity for cheap mining operations.

Quote
Also solar panels break/degrade after 10-20 years and give relatively little power in the meantime.
Yes, solar panels are usually rated for 20 years. It would be unwise to pay for anything that does not give a return on the investment over its lifetime. But the price has come down quite a bit on those.

Quote
Housing - Can you build a house? Plumbing? Wires? Insulation? AC?
Housing will likely not be your typical square house with slanted roof. Most likely dome shaped or containerized housing units (CHUs, which they use in Iraq/Afghanistan) or some other design. OTEC provides fresh water and air conditioning as a bi-product, using the cool water from lower depths will make housing very comfortable.

Like I said, there are many solutions so the ones I listed are just cherry picking from several discussions. We have the expertise and our builder does not see any issues in getting the initial platform built once the design is in place and the investment is finalized. That is what we are working on now.

I am dedicated to making this happen. I have already left the US and have downsized my lifestyle so that I can pick up and go at any moment. I will definitely be one of the first ones living on the seastead so I have made sure to have my input when it comes to design so that it will be a liveable environment with everything for daily living addressed.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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April 16, 2015, 11:48:46 AM
Last edit: April 16, 2015, 12:03:18 PM by yayayo
 #36

The project seems interesting. However its strengths do not lie in preventing forum trolling, because holding some bitcent is not a serious hurdle for a determined troll. On the other hand, needing to proof ownership of Bitcoin might turn off people, because of the added effort to join and privacy issues.

The strength of this project is - provided that it can draw in enough users - that it might be the first successful Bitcoin-crowdfunding platform, because Bitcoin users will be concentrated in one community and have already shown some financial commitment.

I don't know if it will work, but I wish you the very best for your venture!

ya.ya.yo!

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..1xBit.com   Super Six..
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April 16, 2015, 12:30:42 PM
 #37

Good, but the site might needs some more work as it falling apart (the top quoter keep disappearing and the content not resizing with the window) both under Chrome and Firefox.
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April 16, 2015, 12:36:17 PM
 #38

I have no problem with taxes whatsoever, so long as they're not enforced with violence. Kidnapping and caging non-violent innocent citizens for tax violations sounds an awful lot like debtor's prison to me, which is supposed to be illegal here in the USA.
When you don't pay taxes, "your" (read: their) government sends Men of Violence to collect. That's the moment I treat the government and their men as enemies.

 "Whoever lays his hand on me to govern me is a usurper and tyrant, and I declare him my enemy."
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Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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April 16, 2015, 12:54:22 PM
 #39

Good, but the site might needs some more work as it falling apart (the top quoter keep disappearing and the content not resizing with the window) both under Chrome and Firefox.

Yes, I have an updated release that is pending. I locked down the site this past few months so good that I locked myself out yesterday when I went to put in the update. So I have been working with the hosting service to restore access.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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April 16, 2015, 01:01:08 PM
 #40

While I agree with some posters that the idea of using someone's wealth as a parameter to establish the "weight" of their voice is flawed and counterproductive, I can see how it can be useful for some applications. Furthermore, I think this is the key sentence in the OP:

Quote
it will at least ensure that everyone involved in the discussion at least shares the commonality of having some bitcoins

In this case the OP proposes a forum in which you can post only if you prove you hold a certain amount of coins - that's the "commonality" the users of that board will share. I think we can have many more use cases in which users could prove a certain fact (not necessarily wealth) in a decentralized and trustless way thanks to blockchain technology.

A silly example: open source developers could prove in an accurate, trustless, counterfeit-proof and decentralized way that they have committed a certain number of lines of code to a certain set of projects.

Another example: users of certain products could prove ownership of such products thanks to data embedded in the blockchain, and so on...

TL;DR: Elwar's solution seems very interesting to me in a broad sense and from a technological standpoint, even if I dislike the idea that someone's wealth should be used to establish the "weight" of their voice.

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