Tecshare lied about me scamming him

[usagi]

I had locked and deleted this because I thought a resolution was impossible and TECSHARE had shut up about it. Now it seems he's back at it, this time taunting me because he didn't get punished for what he did back then. He's actually asking me what right I have to the work he claims he completed under contract and was paid for.

Note: Yes, I do in fact have a right to ask for work which has been paid for since 4 or 5 months now.

Thread reopened: see below.

[Coinabul]

Can you link to the banners he made you?

[AndrewBUD]

If I may ask how much did he pay?

[P4man]

I think they look pretty good for drafts too. Maybe they were not in the style you were looking for, but clearly a considerable amount of time was spent on making these. Seems only fair he gets compensated for that.

Meanwhile Ill remember tecshare if I ever need some artwork done.

[stochastic]

I think you (and lots of other people) need to reevaluate how to get a design project done. 

A contract is not for trust as a person that signs a contract might not do the work or not anyway.  A contract is done to prevent any misunderstandings.

For example it would best work like this:

1.  Client makes a request for work detailing what they want.
2.  Artists give the client bids, shows the client his or her portfolio, and sets the time of completion.
3.  The client reviews the portfolios of the bidders and selects an artist to do the job.
4.  The client and artist sign a contract detailing the total payment for the work, what is considered acceptable completion, what would happen if the client or artist decides to not complete the work, any copyright issues, and who to mediate in case of a disagreement.
5.  The client sends the cost agreed into escrow.
6.  The artist sends a percentage of the final cost to escrow, to show the client they are serious in completing the work.  If it is not completed then they lose the amount they put up.
7.  The artist does the work, shows the client the prototypes for revisions.
8.  Once the work is done and there is not disagreements between the artist and the client then the work is sent to the client and the escrow agent releases the funds to the artist.

This is how I usually work.  When I did logo and banner work for usagi I cut some slack because I am interested in seeing CPA succeed because I think it is a good idea and wanted to get logos and banners for CPA completed quickly.  I also did not mind you having other people work on the job, although, clients can't expect design work to be like going to a store.  If someone see something at a store and you don't like it then don't have to buy it, but in design if someone asks/accepts a designer to start designing things and the client don't like it, then the client still has to buy it.  With a contract it will express how much to pay if the client does not like the work and wants to quit working.  If the designer also puts some money down then that should prove to the client that this person is serious.

I have to say though, I think usagi is a fair person.  Maybe the work with this other person happened because of a lack of communication.  I know when I acted as a middleman for a designer and usagi that usagi was a little slow in replying.  But I attributed this to usagi being very busy as all of the replies happened around 3 AM.  Also, I quoted a price for usagi thinking we would negotiate a price.  Usagi accepted the price I set out and even though he thought the price was high he paid the payment we agreed on.

[bitcoinBull]

I think you are a stingy client expecting way too much for $50/$100. If you want to prove you can get better for $45, pay it to animatedbanner.com and show here what they make for you (linking to their examples doesn't count).

[nimda]

2 problems:
- You offered him early payment, then retracted the offer
- This was not spec work; you can't expect him to get nothing for his time.

I'm not saying he needs to be compensated in full. However, he did spend time on it and should receive partial payment for the drafts. Certainly not $150, but something partial. Then he can hand over the high-res and you can both move on.

Speaking of which, where are the source files? They've been paid for...

[AndrewBUD]

2 problems:
- You offered him early payment, then retracted the offer
- This was not spec work; you can't expect him to get nothing for his time.

I'm not saying he needs to be compensated in full. However, he did spend time on it and should receive partial payment for the drafts. Certainly not $150, but something partial. Then he can hand over the high-res and you can both move on.

Speaking of which, where are the source files? They've been paid for...

I would like to see, if that's okay with OP? or Matthew... Whoever they belong to

[nimda]

I'd say the sources belong to MNW, but IANAL

[Bitcoin Oz]

I cant see the banners because I get a 403 error page on those links.

[AndrewBUD]

What is IANAL ? lol doesn't sound fun


"you are not a lawyer" Need a better acronym

[Coinoisseur]

And this folks is why the purely art or skill based contract work can be a rough business.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Usagi, there's no need to defend yourself I feel, as TECSHARE has already been paid for the work. I will be instructing him to finish the work and give it to you, as I recognize this as being a miscommunication. Do with them as you will, consider it as a gift regardless from a fan ^_^

[rjk]

Anyone in the design business, or anyone looking to hire a designer, READ THIS FIRST:
http://www.no-spec.com/what-is-spec/

[usagi]

Usagi, there's no need to defend yourself I feel, as TECSHARE has already been paid for the work. I will be instructing him to finish the work and give it to you, as I recognize this as being a miscommunication. Do with them as you will, consider it as a gift regardless from a fan ^_^

There are outstanding issues here, and TECSHARE seems to consider my right to a fair process as a "threat". He's tormenting me over it so I thought I would unlock the thread and provide an update.

Note: this is 4 or 5 months old.

The basic issue here is that TECSHARE has been paid in full for work he did not deliver. In my view his refusal to complete first revision (he promised two revisions and could not complete the first one) was unacceptable -- he said it was 'too difficult' and/or 'didn't look good'. So I fired him and he immediately opened a scam accusation against me.

Matthew N. Wright then stepped up and paid him off for me before I was even able to log on and read what happened. This all happened while I was at work IIRC.

Fast forward to today. I still do not have the hi res art files TECSHARE claimed he completed and has been fully paid for. Frankly I didn't care until he started asking me what my right was to claim the work he was paid for. Then again, how could he have completed it when he did not complete second revision, let alone first? Choosing from a bunch of samples is not a revision.

All I am asking is for TECSHARE to give me the work he says he already completed and has been paid for. If he can't do this and refuses to STFU about it, why not tag him as a scammer? I mean the remedy here is so easy -- either give me the art I paid for and allow me one more revision as was agreed, or give me the money back. It's really that simple.

[BCB]

usagi,

You have indicated that your insurance fund for which the logo was created did not take off

You have indicated that you are "winding down your businesses"

It was determined that MNW paid for the logo.

This is obviously just one m ore bad choice in a long line of BAD business decisions.


LET IT GO.

You claim to be tired and busy with your "job" and "winding down your companies" so you can "spend more time with your family"

You refuse to answer questions I've posted to you.

Yet you had time to open another months old scammer thread which was a distraction then and continues to be a distraction now.

Yesterday you and deprived carried on the most civil dialogue I've seen from you.  You actually sounded lucid, rational and willing to bring this embarrassing, disgracefully situation to a conclusion.

No you are right back to you old (OBVIOUSLY UNSUCCESSFUL!) tricks.

Ignore the FUD.

Lock this thread. 

make reparations

Wind down you companies

and I bet most everyone will leave you alone

Thank you.

[BCB]

Request for a moratorium on usagi post until January 7th, 2013.

Usagi, at that time please report back on your developments with paying your investors back and winding down your companies.

Thank you.

[usagi]

Request for a moratorium on usagi post until January 7th, 2013.

Usagi, at that time please report back on your developments with paying your investors back and winding down your companies.

Thank you.

I have a right to ask for the work which was paid for. That is the point.

Second, please stop spamming the forums. This is the fourth post you've made with the same message:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134477.msg1432522#msg1432522
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133823.msg1432607#msg1432607
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113708.msg1432608#msg1432608
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=103045.msg1432610#msg1432610 (quoted above)

I doubt the mods will do anything if I report you, but if you continue to make yourself as annoying as possible maybe someone else might?

[fbastage]

He has to be annoying, else the scammers win.

[TECSHARE]

Actually you are the one who wont let it go. The only reason I am here AGAIN is because you continue to lie in a lame attempt to save your own reputation. If you continue to lie about the situation I will continue to correct you. Your solution: stop lying

Speaking of lying you forgot to mention that you made no payments, so even though some one took mercy on you and paid me, you are still a scammer for your theft of service. Just because Mathew M. Wright took mercy on you and paid for the contract you refused to honor does not mean you have any rights. I closed my own scam thread against you because I was not interested in anything but getting paid for my work, you now demonstrate to me that I shouldn't have ever closed it.

Your post from the 31st claiming I 'defrauded" you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134011.0

My response from the 3rd on another thread since it was locked right away:

I wanted to bring attention to the fact that USAGI has once again shown himself to not only be dishonest, but willing to lie even further to cover up his past mistakes to the point of implicating himself with his self contradictions.

In this thread "Topic: Counter Evidence for the BCB thread": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134011.msg1427043#msg1427043
(which was promptly locked)

USAGI claims that I "DEFRAUDED" him. In order for me to have defrauded him he would have to have paid for something, ANYTHING. I was paid by Mathew M. Wright for work USAGI contracted, but later refused to pay for. Because of his own issues with his investments failing he felt he did not need to honor our contract, and later claimed it was spec work (it was not). Explained in detail with quotes here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102798.0

Furthermore Mathew M. Wright never gave me instruction to release the files to you. He told you he did in a public thread but no such action was taken. As far as I am concerned if Mathew has a problem with it he can contact me. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CLAIM I SCAMMED YOU OUT OF ANYTHING - you didn't pay for a god damned thing, and these repeated counter accusations are not only extremely childish but quite transparent. Here is his counter accusation which is shockingly deleted.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=103045.0

In summation, stop making childish accusations to draw attention away from your own failures. I hope I don't have to read any more baseless accusations from you in the future.