Pirate accomplices

[SMTB1963]

D&T, the theory we've explained to you has been floating around for many months and coming from different people. Even pirate back in March or April somewhat confirmed this. It's not coming out of the blue. There is no new news here, we're only explaining what has already been explained a couple of times before.

...mmm...Brunic, do you actually know what pirate was doing to legitimately earn 7%/week, or do you just have a theory?

I'm a little late to the conversation here, but I've done a considerable amount of reading on this matter over the last few days.  Frankly, I've yet to see any substantial information on pirate's business model posted anywhere.  I've seen many who claimed they knew what pirate was doing, but nobody provided any specifics (for the typical dubious reasons).  The most detailed info on pirate's op I've been able to find is in this post:

and to further expand..

When I first joined #bitcoin-otc, I did a crapton of trading.  I did a bunch of moneypaks to btc and back.  Basically, playing market maker for whomever needed to move.  Pirate joined around the same time as me, a few days earlier if I'm not mistaken.  He was doing much the same thing.  As a result, it was inevitable for us to end up trading.  At various times, we each would come up with some big fish (or so it seemed at the time) and would help each other out with sourcing coins or finding coins good homes.  All of these trades were always online, with random people that would join #bitcoin-otc.  Eventually, pirate had some 'IRL' customers and it seemed they were larger than your typical moneypak transactions.  Eventually, I got into mining rather than trading because of a few bad moneypaks that someone screwed me with.  It seemed safer and less time intensive.  Meanwhile, pirate seemed to be branching out his trading and there were times where he needed to borrow coins.  When trading, you'd try to line up the incoming with the outgoing to minimize exchange risk and maximize profit, but then sometimes things go weird with one side or whatever and a person would end up needing to borrow.  It happened to me at times in the past so I didn't think anything of it to loan out.  Time went on, the lending became more regular and one thing leads to another and we end up here.  Pirate never really told me what he was doing but I felt I had a good grasp of what was going on.  The dip in and out of two transactions could make 10% pretty easy (5% on both sides, sometimes much more than that) so 7% actually seemed fair.

The above + other stuff I've read here indicates money laundering - not ponzi - to me.  Reason being that market plays/arbitrage/trading skill by pirate would only last so long.  IMO, money laundering is the only model that's sustainable for any length of time, given the returns pirate was paying.  Problems would only occur when the guy(s) with dirty money who will pay >=10% to clean it stop showing up on a regular basis.  I think that's just what happened.  To me, it's the only non-ponzi explanation that fits.

But since you claim pirate's operation has been explained on these forums ad infinitum, it should be a simple matter to point me to a post that explains pirate's legitimate operation succinctly.  Or perhaps you could spend a paragraph explaining your understanding of it.  After all, there's no reason why you or anyone else couldn't divulge their knowledge of pirate's op now, and without ambiguity, unless his op was illegal from the gitgo.

 

[1714881816]

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[1714881816]

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[1714881816]

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[imsaguy]

I'm a little late to the conversation here, but I've done a considerable amount of reading on this matter over the last few days.  Frankly, I've yet to see any substantial information on pirate's business model posted anywhere.  I've seen many who claimed they knew what pirate was doing, but nobody provided any specifics (for the typical dubious reasons).  The most detailed info on pirate's op I've been able to find is in this post:

You didn't find shit.  It was in this thread about a page up.  I've already offered my guesses as to whats going on in other threads.  If you're so lazy that you want me to do the work for you, I couldn't be half assed.  My job isn't to defend pirate.  My post history is freely available and I'm sure within the last 10 pages you can find something that'll suit your fancy that you can properly distort.

I've been a pretty decent sport about answering questions as neutrally as possible and all I get for it is a bunch of trolling and people insulting my intelligence.  It isn't much encouragement to continue the dialogue.

[finkleshnorts]

The above + other stuff I've read here indicates money laundering

money laundering doesn't mean what you think it means.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I'm a little late to the conversation here, but I've done a considerable amount of reading on this matter over the last few days.  Frankly, I've yet to see any substantial information on pirate's business model posted anywhere.  I've seen many who claimed they knew what pirate was doing, but nobody provided any specifics (for the typical dubious reasons).  The most detailed info on pirate's op I've been able to find is in this post:

You didn't find shit.  It was in this thread about a page up.  I've already offered my guesses as to whats going on in other threads.  If you're so lazy that you want me to do the work for you, I couldn't be half assed.  My job isn't to defend pirate.  My post history is freely available and I'm sure within the last 10 pages you can find something that'll suit your fancy that you can properly distort.

I've been a pretty decent sport about answering questions as neutrally as possible and all I get for it is a bunch of trolling and people insulting my intelligence.  It isn't much encouragement to continue the dialogue.

Depends what your idea of money laundering is.

[finkleshnorts]

About growth, pirate always reserved himself the right to return coins if he didn't need them, and it occurred at certain occasions. At first too, he had limited capacity, and always advertised how much was available. There was no infinite growth, far from it, he kept the growth under tight control.

The almost exponential growth happened in the summer, when PPT were freely available and competing each other. It's possible that at that time, he couldn't supply the orders he had, even if the growth was astronomical. Also, think about the customers of pirate. They also saw the price go from 4$ to 6$, 7$, 10$. I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of customers having orders of like 50k BTC in a moment of panic buy. It's only 500 000$ right now, it's a pretty cheap investment for something that went from 5$ to 15$ in less than 3 months.

But at the same time, the crazy growth is what killed the golden goose. The fact that pirate is closing is proof enough that this growth was not sustainable. If the type of growth the PPT gave him was sustainable, the operation would still be running.

Seriously, some of you guys need to go read the BTCST topic back from the start, and see the whole thing evolve. You're talking like Pirate had control of 500k BTC for the last 8 months, and paid 1 120 000 BTC in interests for the last 32 weeks. You're taking the end and making the whole story with it, instead of reading the story back from the start.

Deposits were increasing exponetially (roughly) from start to finish, not just in the summer. As dooglus has said, exponential growth in a finite universe is impossible to sustain. It's math that killed the golden goose, and Pirate took the eggs. When the growth of compounded interested exceeded the net growth of deposits, Pirate pulled the plug.

[finkleshnorts]

Also a key detail people are not talking about is gpumax...

Either it's not a key detail or Pirate was lying when he said gpumax was unrelated (I think he was lying...).

[SMTB1963]

I'm a little late to the conversation here, but I've done a considerable amount of reading on this matter over the last few days.  Frankly, I've yet to see any substantial information on pirate's business model posted anywhere.  I've seen many who claimed they knew what pirate was doing, but nobody provided any specifics (for the typical dubious reasons).  The most detailed info on pirate's op I've been able to find is in this post:

You didn't find shit.  It was in this thread about a page up.  I've already offered my guesses as to whats going on in other threads.  If you're so lazy that you want me to do the work for you, I couldn't be half assed.  My job isn't to defend pirate.  My post history is freely available and I'm sure within the last 10 pages you can find something that'll suit your fancy that you can properly distort.

I've been a pretty decent sport about answering questions as neutrally as possible and all I get for it is a bunch of trolling and people insulting my intelligence.  It isn't much encouragement to continue the dialogue.

Sorry, I wasn't addressing you.  I was addressing Brunic.  I guess I should've been clearer about that.

But there's no need to get in a twist about anything, since I stated that your post was the only substantial info I've been able to find on pirate's business model.  And FYI, I read the quote of your post a couple of days ago in another thread.  

Funny, I thought I was complementing you.

 

EDIT:  nope, I'm wrong.  I did read imsaguy's post in this thread.  and nowhere else at no other time.  Time to stop drinking I guess.  

[finkleshnorts]

Also a key detail people are not talking about is gpumax...

Either it's not a key detail or Pirate was lying when he said gpumax was unrelated (I think he was lying...).

It is unrelated.

I think gpumax is brilliant as a standalone, legitimate business.

But if BTCST is a scam, then I think it's probably involved somehow.

[Hexadecibel]

BTCST already ended badly.

[SMTB1963]

...mmm...Brunic, do you actually know what pirate was doing to legitimately earn 7%/week, or do you just have a theory?

It's the "unofficial" theory I could say. I can't say I know, since I'm only a small part of his business, I can only suppose.

But this theory is a great business model IMHO. If I had the resources and the customers, don't worry, I would not be losing my time on this forum trying to explain it.

So just a theory, then.  Thanks for responding.   

Definitely not trolling - although I do admit I often come off as a troll.  I guess I should work on that.   

[Bitcoin Oz]

...mmm...Brunic, do you actually know what pirate was doing to legitimately earn 7%/week, or do you just have a theory?

It's the "unofficial" theory I could say. I can't say I know, since I'm only a small part of his business, I can only suppose.

But this theory is a great business model IMHO. If I had the resources and the customers, don't worry, I would not be losing my time on this forum trying to explain it.

So just a theory, then.  Thanks for responding.   

Definitely not trolling - although I do admit I often come off as a troll.  I guess I should work on that.   

The theory involving pirates business model depends on there being enough people who wish to bypass rules and regulations on moving cash around. I dont consider wanting financial privacy as money laundering even though the government might. I would say that if hes involved in doing that theres is probably only so long you can before it gets noticed.

[bitcoiners]

...mmm...Brunic, do you actually know what pirate was doing to legitimately earn 7%/week, or do you just have a theory?

It's the "unofficial" theory I could say. I can't say I know, since I'm only a small part of his business, I can only suppose.

But this theory is a great business model IMHO. If I had the resources and the customers, don't worry, I would not be losing my time on this forum trying to explain it.

So just a theory, then.  Thanks for responding.   

Definitely not trolling - although I do admit I often come off as a troll.  I guess I should work on that.   

The theory involving pirates business model depends on there being enough people who wish to bypass rules and regulations on moving cash around. I dont consider wanting financial privacy as money laundering even though the government might. I would say that if hes involved in doing that theres is probably only so long you can before it gets noticed.

Didn't pirate say he's made 30k BTC or $300.000 USD in profits from his scam? I'm sure the IRS would love to know about this.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Didn't pirate say he's made 30k BTC or $300.000 USD in profits from his scam? I'm sure the IRS would love to know about this.

If it were a scam, he'd have made $5 milllion off of it, and seems the FBI would be more interested than the IRS.

[Bitcoin Oz]

...mmm...Brunic, do you actually know what pirate was doing to legitimately earn 7%/week, or do you just have a theory?

It's the "unofficial" theory I could say. I can't say I know, since I'm only a small part of his business, I can only suppose.

But this theory is a great business model IMHO. If I had the resources and the customers, don't worry, I would not be losing my time on this forum trying to explain it.

So just a theory, then.  Thanks for responding.   

Definitely not trolling - although I do admit I often come off as a troll.  I guess I should work on that.   

The theory involving pirates business model depends on there being enough people who wish to bypass rules and regulations on moving cash around. I dont consider wanting financial privacy as money laundering even though the government might. I would say that if hes involved in doing that theres is probably only so long you can before it gets noticed.

Didn't pirate say he's made 30k BTC or $300.000 USD in profits from his scam? I'm sure the IRS would love to know about this.

Fuck the IRS.

[bitcoiners]

...mmm...Brunic, do you actually know what pirate was doing to legitimately earn 7%/week, or do you just have a theory?

It's the "unofficial" theory I could say. I can't say I know, since I'm only a small part of his business, I can only suppose.

But this theory is a great business model IMHO. If I had the resources and the customers, don't worry, I would not be losing my time on this forum trying to explain it.

So just a theory, then.  Thanks for responding.   

Definitely not trolling - although I do admit I often come off as a troll.  I guess I should work on that.   

The theory involving pirates business model depends on there being enough people who wish to bypass rules and regulations on moving cash around. I dont consider wanting financial privacy as money laundering even though the government might. I would say that if hes involved in doing that theres is probably only so long you can before it gets noticed.

Didn't pirate say he's made 30k BTC or $300.000 USD in profits from his scam? I'm sure the IRS would love to know about this.

Fuck the IRS.

Enemies can be friends in times like this.

[bitcoiners]

Didn't pirate say he's made 30k BTC or $300.000 USD in profits from his scam? I'm sure the IRS would love to know about this.

If it were a scam, he'd have made $5 milllion off of it, and seems the FBI would be more interested than the IRS.

It is a scam.  Get ready to pay out.

[Matthew N. Wright]

...mmm...Brunic, do you actually know what pirate was doing to legitimately earn 7%/week, or do you just have a theory?

It's the "unofficial" theory I could say. I can't say I know, since I'm only a small part of his business, I can only suppose.

But this theory is a great business model IMHO. If I had the resources and the customers, don't worry, I would not be losing my time on this forum trying to explain it.

So just a theory, then.  Thanks for responding.   

Definitely not trolling - although I do admit I often come off as a troll.  I guess I should work on that.   

The theory involving pirates business model depends on there being enough people who wish to bypass rules and regulations on moving cash around. I dont consider wanting financial privacy as money laundering even though the government might. I would say that if hes involved in doing that theres is probably only so long you can before it gets noticed.

Didn't pirate say he's made 30k BTC or $300.000 USD in profits from his scam? I'm sure the IRS would love to know about this.

Fuck the IRS.

Enemies can be friends in times like this.

Indeed. In Korea, irregardless of shady business practices, local codes, or various unlawful activities, no one will touch you if you're paying your taxes.

[SMTB1963]

The theory involving pirates business model depends on there being enough people who wish to bypass rules and regulations on moving cash around. I dont consider wanting financial privacy as money laundering even though the government might. I would say that if hes involved in doing that theres is probably only so long you can before it gets noticed.

True, tax avoidance also makes sense as a non-ponzi explanation for pirate's ability to continue paying 7%/wk.  If that's the case, pirate must be very persuasive with well heeled folk in meatspace.  IMO, it's unlikely.

But whether his customer base was composed of people looking to clean money or avoid taxes ultimately doesn't matter.  Both are illegal.  But  at least if it's one of the two, depositors might have a chance of getting their principal back.

Honestly, I hope one of the above is the case.  Bitcoin doesn't need another black eye right now.

[MrTeal]

Didn't pirate say he's made 30k BTC or $300.000 USD in profits from his scam? I'm sure the IRS would love to know about this.

If it were a scam, he'd have made $5 milllion off of it, and seems the FBI would be more interested than the IRS.

True, but the burden of proof for tax evasion is much lower. Just ask Al Capone.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Didn't pirate say he's made 30k BTC or $300.000 USD in profits from his scam? I'm sure the IRS would love to know about this.

If it were a scam, he'd have made $5 milllion off of it, and seems the FBI would be more interested than the IRS.

True, but the burden of proof for tax evasion is much lower. Just ask Al Capone.

Knowing how the government works there is probably a snitch line to ring and report people.