HungerCoins Invest: The odds are ever in your favor.

[dooglus]

Thanks for your reply. For HC Invest, I plan to put different addresses for 0.25, 0.5, 1, and 5 bitcoins and the payout will be every 144 confirmations. I hope that will be fair with you. Do you agree?

Why not allow any amount between stated allowable min and max values, all to the same address?  If the value is not acceptable, you treat it how you currently treat any non-0.25 value.  I don't think you need to use different addresses or limit your users to certain round numbers.  If you're willing to accept 'bets' of 5 BTC, why not also accept bets of 4.932345 BTC?  That way people don't have to send multiple transactions.

You could even offer to split bets that exceed the maximum up into multiple bets of the maximum, and find some way to generate a different hash for each such bet.  Perhaps by re-hashing the txid after appending the bet number to it.  So instead of comparing the last digits of txid with block hash, you compare the last digits of sha256(txid + "0") for the first such bet, sha256(txid + "1") for the 2nd, etc.  Then I can "invest" an arbitrary amount without spamming the blockchain.

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[iamtheone]

A new announcement has been made in the bottom portion of the original post.
We now accept 0.25 to 10 bitcoins in this address: 1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK
Please read the original post.
Thanks.

Btw, the original address will still work unchanged.

[iamtheone]

Thanks for your reply. For HC Invest, I plan to put different addresses for 0.25, 0.5, 1, and 5 bitcoins and the payout will be every 144 confirmations. I hope that will be fair with you. Do you agree?

Why not allow any amount between stated allowable min and max values, all to the same address?  If the value is not acceptable, you treat it how you currently treat any non-0.25 value.  I don't think you need to use different addresses or limit your users to certain round numbers.  If you're willing to accept 'bets' of 5 BTC, why not also accept bets of 4.932345 BTC?  That way people don't have to send multiple transactions.

You could even offer to split bets that exceed the maximum up into multiple bets of the maximum, and find some way to generate a different hash for each such bet.  Perhaps by re-hashing the txid after appending the bet number to it.  So instead of comparing the last digits of txid with block hash, you compare the last digits of sha256(txid + "0") for the first such bet, sha256(txid + "1") for the 2nd, etc.  Then I can "invest" an arbitrary amount without spamming the blockchain.

Thanks doodlus
You really are smart. What do you think of the changes? I hope they will accept the 144 confirmations.

[Gavin Andresen]

I'm sorry to hear that. All those people in the lending subforum who borrow and lend for profit must all be ponzi schemes too if we follow that logic. And we can also include everyone with credit cards too. Hmmmm, how then do we address it?

You address it by explaining where the bitcoins come from for the 'guaranteed' payouts.

Credit cards make money by charging merchants a fee, charging interest on late payments, etc. And they mitigate their risk by running credit reports on borrowers.

Legitimate lenders do something similar.

So, I'll ask again: what is your business model?  How will you make the money to payback the people who are sending you X bitcoins and expecting to get X+Y back in a day?

[iamtheone]

I'm sorry to hear that. All those people in the lending subforum who borrow and lend for profit must all be ponzi schemes too if we follow that logic. And we can also include everyone with credit cards too. Hmmmm, how then do we address it?

You address it by explaining where the bitcoins come from for the 'guaranteed' payouts.

Credit cards make money by charging merchants a fee, charging interest on late payments, etc. And they mitigate their risk by running credit reports on borrowers.

Legitimate lenders do something similar.

So, I'll ask again: what is your business model?  How will you make the money to payback the people who are sending you X bitcoins and expecting to get X+Y back in a day?

As I said, it's lending and borrowing. We will lend at more interest than we borrow. And it will not be just daily. It can be weekly or more. Banks work like that, right? Don't you believe that people in lending subforum do that? I'm just automating the borrowing part and put some kind of attraction to it. What's wrong with that?

[iamtheone]

I hope you are not just zeroing in on me. I am even in the gambling subforum.

[dooglus]

I'm just automating the borrowing part and put some kind of attraction to it. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is that if you allow people to borrow anonymously you vastly increase the probability of them never repaying their loan.  I didn't see any details of how you're going to credit check your borrowers, but if you let people somehow automatically and anonymously 'borrow' from you, I don't think you can expect to get many of your loans repaid.  Some people would be honest, but I suspect that most would think along the lines of "I'm not going to lose any reputation, and I'm not going to get into trouble if I don't repay this - some I won't repay this".

Maybe the loans won't be anonymous, and you're proposing some automatic way that I can prove I'm creditworthy to your script.  I'd like to see how that works...

[OneEyed]

I'm just automating the borrowing part and put some kind of attraction to it. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is that if you allow people to borrow anonymously you vastly increase the probability of them never repaying their loan.

I understood "the borrowing part" as "how we will borrow money so that we can lend it for higher interest rates". It makes more sense than your interpretation.

[iamtheone]

New announcement (This seemed not to be noticed in the original post so it's reposted here)

A new address is now available which will accept bets from 0.25 to 10 bitcoins: 1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK
The same ROI as above. You still can not lose. You can earn 0.2%, 2%, 20%, 200%, 2,000% for each bet between 0.25 to 10 bitcoins. The only catch is we will send your winnings after 144 confirmations or about 24 hours. This will hopefully addresss the "bitcoin attack issue" raised by some members of the community.

Blockexplorer.com raw data will still be our official data source.

Also, a famous figure of the bitcoin world thinks this is a ponzi. If you also think so, don't send us any coins.

Next week, we will be accepting loan requests from the community. A separate announcement will be made for it.

Some explanations and analyses

Everytime some coins is sent on the above address, we will lose on average about 0.45% value after about 24 hours. In effect, we are like borrowing from the bettors and repaying it in 24 hours for a little interest. However, we have 24 hours to use that money to invest or to lend for more interest and make some profit. If we keep on doing that, we can sustain everything. The lending portion is not the hard part. There are so many people willing to borrow bitcoins for much higher interest. The hard part is finding people who are trustworthy enough. This will be mostly manual and tedious. And if we create some kind of system, we don't have to offer just 24 hour terms. We can make it weekly or more as long as we have enough buffers. Aside from that, we have made some analyses using monte carlo simulation and neural networks and genetic algorithms across the whole blockchain and assigned the popular addresses and links. And studying market data and finding opportunities. It can be proven, that there are many opportunities in the bitcoin world that exists everyday that would mean we can make more than the interest we pay to the bettors. This one can be automated. Using artificial intelligence, our application can send us proper investment signals after detecting right opportunities after consuming various data from various sources. The automating portion is not quite done yet but it will be ready soon. It looks promising.

What we are offering is some kind of a game where the bettors can't lose. And just like a lottery, you get your winnings the next day (not instantly). If we gain popularity, we will have enough buffers and leverage it to profit to those opportunities constantly appearing and disappearing in the bitcoin world.

[Blind]

using monte carlo simulation and neural networks and genetic algorithms [...] using artificial intelligence

This sure sounds like a scam.

[JoelKatz]

What we are offering is some kind of a game where the bettors can't lose. And just like a lottery, you get your winnings the next day (not instantly). If we gain popularity, we will have enough buffers and leverage it to profit to those opportunities constantly appearing and disappearing in the bitcoin world.

The bettors certainly can lose. If you make bad loans, you won't have the money to pay the bettors back, and they lose. Right?

If you had enough money of your own to ensure you could pay the bettors back even if your loans fail, why wouldn't you just lend that money and keep all the profits?

Since the bettors can lose, they need some way to determine what the odds are of them losing. Otherwise, they can't tell if this is a good deal or a bad deal. So how do they tell?

[nimda]

So how do they tell?

Anonymous Jr. member with no prior transaction history, speaking of an unmentioned "we," proclaims breakthrough research in genetic algorithms, neural networks, and artificial intelligence; s/he offers a net 3.15% weekly.

VS

1 month old Jr. member who has donated $100 to bitcointalk.org borrows at 3% interest to finance short term investments, mining, and private lending; he has an A- credit rating from PatrickHarnett.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96163.0

You decide

[iamtheone]

So how do they tell?

Anonymous Jr. member with no prior transaction history, speaking of an unmentioned "we," proclaims breakthrough research in genetic algorithms, neural networks, and artificial intelligence; s/he offers a net 3.15% weekly.

VS

1 month old Jr. member who has donated $100 to bitcointalk.org borrows at 3% interest to finance short term investments, mining, and private lending; he has an A- credit rating from PatrickHarnett.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96163.0

You decide

Did I mention breakthrough? The technology has long been there. It's just that I automated some things. And that other borrower you are promoting here also started as an unknown. And what happened to "don't put all your eggs in one basket"? I provide a convenient alternative. It's up to them to decide. I don't hijack others' threads. I stay here. I'm even in the gambling forum, they are in lending. Let's see who will still be here in 5 years.

[nimda]

Yes, let's see.

[JoelKatz]

I'm even in the gambling forum ...

There's a difference between gambling and scamming. When gambling, you know what the odds are, and the risk is not that the house won't pay out. With scamming, you have no idea what the odds are, and the risk is that the house will not pay out as agreed.

[iamtheone]

BitCoin Lottery is now live!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105396.0
You can turn your 0.01 bitcoins into 500.

[squall1066]

Dude, 3 confirmations, then 6, then 7, then WTF 144!! dude seriously?

[iamtheone]

Dude, 3 confirmations, then 6, then 7, then WTF 144!! dude seriously?

Honestly, I didn't want to. My original target was to reach 144 in december. But if you followed the thread, even the technical lead of bitcoin accused me of things. Then I deployed another instant lottery, then another one accused me of things again. But if enough people are interested, we can restart down to, say, 6 confirmations and increase it to +1 confirmation per day. I would love that. Let's see who will be interested. I don't care anymore what they accuse me of. Esp now HungerCoin Lottery is already live.

[squall1066]

Dude, 3 confirmations, then 6, then 7, then WTF 144!! dude seriously?

Honestly, I didn't want to. My original target was to reach 144 in december. But if you followed the thread, even the technical lead of bitcoin accused me of things. Then I deployed another instant lottery, then another one accused me of things again. But if enough people are interested, we can restart down to, say, 6 confirmations and increase it to +1 confirmation per day. I would love that. Let's see who will be interested. I don't care anymore what they accuse me of. Esp now HungerCoin Lottery is already live.

TBH I would have been happy with 20-30 so a few hours, otherwise who will send 0.25 to get back 0.2505 in 1 day?

[iamtheone]

I'll restart it to 30. Wait.