HungerCoins Invest: The odds are ever in your favor.

[iamtheone]

Hello Bitcoiners,

HungerCoins Invest - the odds are ever in your favor.

Would you bet in a lottery if you know you can't lose?

How does it work?

Just send 0.25 to 10 bitcoins to this address: 1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK. Think of your transaction hash as your ticket. When this transaction is included in a block, think of the block hash as the raffle outcome. There are 5 possible outcomes:

Case 1: If the last 4 digits of the block hash is equal to the last 4 digits of the transaction hash we will send you 2,000% of your bet + your original bet.

Case 2: If the last 3 digits of the block hash is equal to the last 3 digits of the transaction hash we will send you 200% of your bet + your original bet.

Case 3: If the last 2 digits of the block hash is equal to the last 2 digits of the transaction hash we will send you 20% of your bet + your original bet.

Case 4: If the last digit of the block hash is equal to the last digit of the transaction hash we will send you 2% of your bet + your original bet.

Case 5: Any other case not in 1 to 4, we will send you 0.2% of your bet + your original bet.

There is no way you can lose.

Invalid Transactions
If you send us an amount less than 0.25 we will treat it as a donation and not send you anything back.
If you send us any amount greater then 10 bitcoins, we will send you back the amount less 0.001 bitcoin so that you will handle the transaction fee.
Only one transaction hash per ticket.

When will the winnings be sent?
For now, we will wait for 37 confirmations. We will announce if we will change it.
For now, we will wait for 38 confirmations. We will announce if we will change it.
For now, we will wait for 39 confirmations. We will announce if we will change it.
For now, we will wait for 40 confirmations. We will announce if we will change it.

Where will the winnings be sent?
We will use the first input address in the transaction information. Our official data source will be blockexplorer.com.

Which bitcoin clients can we use? Can we automate our sending process?
So far we tested it in electrum and bitcoin-qt and it works. As long as you are sure that the input address is your address, it will work.

Can you sustain it?
For now we are losing money to run this. But it's a minimal amount. We will be increasing the confirmation times until a sustainable setting is reached then we stop increasing it and monitor the market conditions to maintain competitiveness. We are just like a borrower that pays interest to those playing this game. Our competition is in the lending subforum, and we try our best to offer the best rates. Our system is automated and fast and predictable, however. Not to mention it's thrilling since you can get lucky.

Why are you doing this?
We need to maintain a floating amount to act as buffer for other operations such as the HungerCoins Lottery. The more buffer we have, we will add more to the jackpot prizes. If you are not comfortable playing this game since it will take time to get your winnings, you can play our cheap game, the HungerCoins Lottery since it is almost instant payout. And not to mention it is cheap, too. The link is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105396.0

Before you make a bet, please check the number of confirmations here so that you will know when you will receive your payout. We will change it at most once a day depending on the conditions.

[1715652537]

1715652537

[1715652537]

1715652537

[FreeMoney]

You don't need people to send you that much to test your system. One cent should do fine and you'll get a lot more data for a lot less cost.

[iamtheone]

Through this, we will also be able to estimate the potential market at 0.25 bitcoins that's why we set it at that amount.

[iamtheone]

Btw, I'm not sure if this should be in gambling forum. Should this be in lending or investment or somewhere else?

[FreeMoney]

Through this, we will also be able to estimate the potential market at 0.25 bitcoins that's why we set it at that amount.

No, you'll not have the same market size with a positive and negative EV game.

[FreeMoney]

Btw, I'm not sure if this should be in gambling forum. Should this be in lending or investment or somewhere else?

I say that anyone sending is taking a chance so it should stay 

[2weiX]

sent 10x0.25 for the heck of it.

[AndyRossy]

sent 15... lets see what happens.

[iamtheone]

Let me know what happens. Thanks!

[Fortega]

sent 0.25, received 0.2505  back. 'Reinvesting' the 0.25 now. :-)
At this rate, I will have BTC10 000 000 in just one year! :-p

[iamtheone]

Lol you can't. The budget given to me is less than 1k btc until december. 

[iamtheone]

And before that happens, I must deploy a real money making lottery with big jackpots. And some kind of time deposits but not at this rate. probably 0.6% per 24hours. But not sure yet. As long as we can sustain it, we surely will have the best offers.

[iamtheone]

Btw, what client do you use?

[Fortega]

Btw, what client do you use?

I sent it through the blockchain bitcoin wallet...

[iamtheone]

Really? I never tested it. Glad to hear it's working for you.

[iamtheone]

Signing off. I'll check back every now and then. Good luck everyone.

[2weiX]

i sent 10x0.25

i received
1x0.255
and
9x0.249

[Fortega]

0.249? That doesn't seem correct, iamtheone...

[AndyRossy]

I sent quite a lot, but, my client auto adds a 0.02% tx fee, so about breakeven xD

pastebin of txs

http://pastebin.com/AACJDuDa

[2weiX]

0.249? That doesn't seem correct...

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538518/850b8b182498e423f6dc54f46fc53b73b29bc951b3b8613c6d6d8f0398d1d477

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538512/ed0b564c06471ce0663528bdec70e651c8225f08a617dcc680fc374f72d3ff39

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538506/f12aedea3bae6eab8b0b73bc1b2916f1a0fed6d26e42d3a80a9a21b72b4b9aa6

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538501/6fbc8e5d852b5cb9c2d7345ac7a7909c1f4e4b94d65485c1518fd1c36a151d88

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538426/ff11397121f1d959f880870cd3784a03aa31e07bd0645fbf09dd3a8056f1e7da
....

[Fortega]

I just got paid 0.2505 again...

[squall1066]

I cannot loose? does not sound right, does this work with bitcoin-qt?

[Fortega]

Paid 0.25 twice, got 0.2505 and 0.249 back.

Looks like sometimes it treats 0.25 as a wrong amount...

If you send us any amount not equal to 0.25 bitcoins, we will send you back the amount less 0.001 bitcoin so that you will handle the transaction fee.

[AndyRossy]

Just sent another 62 0.25's, lets see how this works out.

[iamtheone]

0.249? That doesn't seem correct...

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538518/850b8b182498e423f6dc54f46fc53b73b29bc951b3b8613c6d6d8f0398d1d477

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538512/ed0b564c06471ce0663528bdec70e651c8225f08a617dcc680fc374f72d3ff39

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538506/f12aedea3bae6eab8b0b73bc1b2916f1a0fed6d26e42d3a80a9a21b72b4b9aa6

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538501/6fbc8e5d852b5cb9c2d7345ac7a7909c1f4e4b94d65485c1518fd1c36a151d88

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538426/ff11397121f1d959f880870cd3784a03aa31e07bd0645fbf09dd3a8056f1e7da
....

Checking on it right now. Somehow your transactions were flagged as invalid. Sorry. Will get back to you in a while.

[iamtheone]

0.249? That doesn't seem correct...

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538518/850b8b182498e423f6dc54f46fc53b73b29bc951b3b8613c6d6d8f0398d1d477

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538512/ed0b564c06471ce0663528bdec70e651c8225f08a617dcc680fc374f72d3ff39

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538506/f12aedea3bae6eab8b0b73bc1b2916f1a0fed6d26e42d3a80a9a21b72b4b9aa6

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538501/6fbc8e5d852b5cb9c2d7345ac7a7909c1f4e4b94d65485c1518fd1c36a151d88

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/18538426/ff11397121f1d959f880870cd3784a03aa31e07bd0645fbf09dd3a8056f1e7da
....

Checking on it right now. Somehow your transactions were flagged as invalid. Sorry. Will get back to you in a while.

You combined sending to the address in one transaction hash. Only the first one will be considered valid. The others are invalid. Remember your ticket is your transaction hash. Only one ticket per transaction. You must send only one 0.25 per transaction.

[skydust]

i just sent 10 x 0.25 BTC.

edit: received 10 x 0.2505 BTC

[iamtheone]

I cannot loose? does not sound right, does this work with bitcoin-qt?

Yes it does. but i suggest you use elecrtum so that you can control the transaction fees. It makes it cheap.

[iamtheone]

I sent quite a lot, but, my client auto adds a 0.02% tx fee, so about breakeven xD

pastebin of txs

http://pastebin.com/AACJDuDa

I suggest you use electrum to control the transaction fees. Also, please send 0.25BTC per transaction. If you send multiple times in one transaction, only the first 0.25BTC will be considered valid. The others will be returned with 0.001 deduction.

[Fortega]

elecrtum

electrum - http://electrum-desktop.com/

[iamtheone]

Just sent another 62 0.25's, lets see how this works out.

Good luck. Thanks for trying it out. I hope you sent every one of them in different transactions. Otherwise, only the first one will be valid.

[iamtheone]

I cannot loose? does not sound right, does this work with bitcoin-qt?

You can't lose. Never. But we can't sustain it. This is just a beta test. We have computed the budget and we believe we will last until the end of the year. We will also slowly increase the confirmation times so there will be a delay of when you will receive the payments. Right now it's 30mins. So think of it as "better than 0.2%" for 30mins. We definitely can't sustain that. We will find the balance of the best times and the market reaction. The more we delay the confirmations, the less people will join us. The less we delay it, the more we can't sustain it.

We will also be deploying some kind of lottery with big jackpots. And some kind of short term time deposits. Right now we need to gather the data that's why we have to shoulder the expenses.

[iamtheone]

Signing off. Good luck everyone. I'll be back soon.

[AndyRossy]

Just sent another 62 0.25's, lets see how this works out.

Good luck. Thanks for trying it out. I hope you sent every one of them in different transactions. Otherwise, only the first one will be valid.

yes.


andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind getbalance
15.67713674
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
170e4775b12e371d5cefdbc2d4edca94d6f324054b75f2593d57100d0a150bdb
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
b91bb22d80205b6b1b55dc7ada462de415b1aad696fecd67a0859b8e11d5bfdf
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
e9ef6ade71bf40d1c2150a82f43b97c2ef2e19bf1c04c85ffe7fdce978574d7d
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
058e9f161223b1af20c17aa0e5cb49ba37644e4ccd1084c6d8553ce58bc2cc6c
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
badf8fc4d02f12a1cc8768b8961869a4f0b8e61145d089450aa4f567d070a9ba
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
7436303eb71d2041668e4d76061ae8ce8e0d6ce898b63dd88be25e74d594b0e3
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
a7e73ee05cca75c864f96b77d03b69cad2ca64707d1431821101b7eb0d45e3be
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
cfd58e3f3d48c2efe58ddc431135681ef911f530438f91686587d51a68bc8c3c
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
8fcfbb5cfec95cf4d21b727cb68f158dc3a8a6be5c6fb936dacb5f37ba9686c7
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
ab751c5c1d13f00b5bcb207f78682821eed89158b1bec936726edefca390661e
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
6d30c40bb6201c69e9e2e2d0dde3137497586faedfe5381bc0511ba6067b77ff
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
5bc82839adaab82bdd8c9e0dda832adc1f3c7a4623986bebdd6b0029cf79c315
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
58a35fa9b9850d36d6e0dc281b193405cd7f7a0b0ec775f930d29c88a8273f6b
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
cb32789d1638787e271033b1d0fa29dca6c3459f21c2509322b14433baea1a17
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
848bc2e4e41f0fe2fa8411bbd1061fc4ac474a4ddff41e714423ad24a77610a9
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
80e2d6a313945603f795c6f4bf41948bc6306a7237d3d2004db1e22883956bbe
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
29efd83b0fc73241b2d5f255edc04b39fcb5be5af4b3fd0758c637b74a2c2598
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
5a4142da38c21fe62192d786bc7d3d8e66f2fe11c5bb635cbac78c9361f18a77
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
dc372d34b5e96f5b7acbf5f87f76e199aca8b0bcf664eac581d0903b5aff8895
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
be0a9bb69eb31a86fce44e760f981b483211fa9f5d3943b235e8cc9795dc2dc0
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
e9ee4c7903b0ca1059efead43538834ae87046380f41fa417f8d17c0a93c2463
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
a44fd9da35136d189a66f09ce8bcc83c705aeccc84aef00338b239404f39097d
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
521979293843e4096bbf33ba39c70729cc3f0c1ace9b03921b6ac2c43cc619d1
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
f8ae6f91ed7cb6df64d72aea7ecb1e31d581af2652033f0a75dd42439cf5caf5
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
1ba01add7ee33e6c19b48df636398a0c7bb702062ddc6a524655cbc5c0577344
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
bddba036c0b1e8a8100ca4c24304716d7efdcd7152874f1e8802266cb5aa15b4
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
1776fb0ad8841458389b231c8d2f3873c7c5c61b87fb65caa00d9b29df9b6c9b
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
f4b2384eddc09e25645f28028f4bf7c6483a29a7d8c3a1edc4d68a3208bbe7d2
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
cae019f4364d38984fd84f1ef6c2198e16adbd33074e6c40daca1227594d8c01
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
46d9829ce1ed1f75acdfa0893922b16942013a0f2f64b5656e20831dbd7386c8
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
177dda5cd4c7c67848d19a57def8d2ed9836406b9b2ebbb03a1315b3e297e74f
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
3a2bd0b70d3d41ee2b12895da6db8bb8816c449df1f8fb36b0e25ef1dfe83d24
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
fbcd0a2c322cf0440788f832da808c53f5d185379bd5b7fac6780948c9280f38
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
f5782f16b7d43a0b1441f8d154c7412292c4564a4539498b965165ef97ab7c39
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
be6c993b6aa9b19a7401ef94ade6cb9a837e58cc6924dbc5dc0ca6c02627a199
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
121c4ed46c29e08b95591d9cf5cf30b34e88a1d955a5b6703aebd111b0a69c15
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
1cba72c3e876db0ed25afa6636fb1e48df71cfc1312caea65d0c2d095fdb3a46
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
76679e058443f2da6088bc10ab5b5bee421ced5384214ccd73909e65bea34923
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
bf51ac57b51eba2172b9f06dd100b56bf895cf4ccad17db32a7e7cbff310eae4
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
96267eadc3b9f2fb3869750e920b23af90b6d8971eb631dbaf4f5cd45fccac89
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
2759d7facec1347a01c084df8e5dca6b4963039bf6c4d1684b8237eef269e7a3
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
fec75eb406b758055654df2155d20c53bea6895d754b5c86dabf3d012148b0b7
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
4a1bdece6ea87e4c1b1c0cef6a9f6028f9f1faac8fad96b836594c5dbcde8e53
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
67fa70cf0022ae0ca26150208fd135e49077ae1d3f08e11488854cc51c136ae7
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
7bbdf4e63307040d1cbda5dd34135e7c946411b52be2547b957f1d48f616dfe6
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
8784871e913b42c22c4dcfe815b69a9b6134fb2c4d70465e480ab24167c47c72
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
0b286104482df19cd0bbd414f9589c7ab411a331e8054b40df7d9b20d513003f
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
d22e661af109b7a344c34531a6d89afb03336ceff4bb66d4efc678ea6a61e384
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
7533595990368f6b074c3f0dba182ddf093041f0b244d50ed0c2c507bb3e0518
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
558d09aac52b3d6cfb5d3c2f9ee54991db3079c023c5dfa14ed21b193f513d2f
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
55d54633f07388772b7903e79b3f6e526b9831eaf9a6463b0231cb19a6391d24
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
e6880e60db6163ce71996242aa83b0e8c1a67a3a00d8d10fad8131a35e18dd9f
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
d8be5a2a92f89a2d3294d9bd7fc5b3f50195c779abd4c5da9f7c80ea54f285a5
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
2965f52b17c733e1be2d2baae7f7fc76565abd1dd2369971e24c5d41bc0c164b
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
f6a91e9f070ff71bd50dd21067b136aed923ff3d9e6491a388650df03e386e88
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
6ede4f63debe2586caae1063a7b01bf4b6242a9fa4c16a70c27e35d3691960fe
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
d79542a752433d6e7ef8c077aa93c8e5cc13ba59a5f068cb7db3ee65aea8a18e
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
384f5e408a213e1c5313c091cca9344755f7b845a81e960c03a959113c59db45
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
cbad83176e6c9bbd0c294b961d34822c6a27151e4f6b12e0f0025b89bca62137
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
0310a0e80af81427e8443de0b1deab76c57ddf88fd3b9f27ffc79a80418caab4
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
dea976e96b9a16f7fbf48897d7d521be9be08ecc5adce9bc1bd428f7f9bcc0d1
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
1604da02728bc82bbc302407af96bf9f8bfbf274b75be6c4dec66bf1a2011256
andrew@engine:~/bin$ perl -e 'sleep 60*60;'
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind getbalance
15.70413674
andrew@engine:~/bin$

[dooglus]

andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind getbalance
15.67713674
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind sendtoaddress 15yTy2CYLk1EEzAzUkTUR2HghPwPLWivGP 0.25
170e4775b12e371d5cefdbc2d4edca94d6f324054b75f2593d57100d0a150bdb
[...]
andrew@engine:~/bin$ perl -e 'sleep 60*60;'
andrew@engine:~/bin$ ./bitcoind getbalance
15.70413674
andrew@engine:~/bin$

This is an easier way to do it:

$ ./bitcoind getbalance
$ deleted top secret bash command which uses a while loop to send 62 transactions after I received heat for it on IRC
$ sleep $((60*60))
$ ./bitcoind getbalance

I sent a single 0.25 payment and got 0.2505 back 4 blocks later.

My suspicious mind wonders whether this could be a really short-term ponzi scheme.  You get 0.2% interest per half hour.  The temptation obviously is to send thousands of these transactions.  Which is fine until they stop coming back.

[Luke-Jr]

Great, another outsourced DDoS on Bitcoin...

[dooglus]

Great, another outsourced DDoS on Bitcoin...

This is genius: All the blockchain bloat of satoshi dice combined with all the counter-party risk of BS&T!

[weex]

Now if this could only be used to short BTC....

[dooglus]

According to my calculations, the expected return per 'bet' is 0.2511 BTC, and if you have a budget of 100 BTC to run this thing, you can expect to survive for 88000 bets (if you ignore transaction fees) or 61000 bets (if you assume a 0.0005 BTC transaction fee per payment):

>>> ((1*5.25 + 15*0.75 + 15*16*0.30 + 15*16*16*0.255 + 15*16*16*16*0.2505) / 65536) - 0.25
0.0011355590820312234
>>> 100 / (((1*5.25 + 15*0.75 + 15*16*0.30 + 15*16*16*0.255 + 15*16*16*16*0.2505) / 65536) - 0.25)
88062.34883096149
>>> 100 / (((1*5.25 + 15*0.75 + 15*16*0.30 + 15*16*16*0.255 + 15*16*16*16*0.2505) / 65536) - 0.25 + 0.0005)
61141.17251931286

[Gavin Andresen]

Please don't play this.

If it gets popular, then it is just "use the blockchain to create a Ponzi scheme". It can scale up, using new transactions to pay a little more to older transactions made 2 or 3 blocks ago. That's is the essence of a Ponzi scheme.

If you want to test something, use the testnet.  That is what it is for.

[iamtheone]

Please don't play this.

If it gets popular, then it is just "use the blockchain to create a Ponzi scheme". It can scale up, using new transactions to pay a little more to older transactions made 2 or 3 blocks ago. That's is the essence of a Ponzi scheme.

If you want to test something, use the testnet.  That is what it is for.

Hi Gavin,

It's an honor you visited this thread. I completely understand where you are coming from. However, that is not our intention here. I am also a programmer and I am also involved in various open source projects that helped humanity. I assure you we have the purest intentions. But as I said, I totally understand you. I guess you can deduce from my previous posts our roadmap on how to try to run a sustainable business using bitcoin. This is just to have something to start with.

I find a little disturbing, however, if you intend to tell me that bitcoin can't scale to a level when our plans will take off. I really don't know how scalable bitcoin is as of the moment. I am more into business applications now.

If you are saying so, we can always stop what we plan. If it means we can't sustain our plans for scalability reasons of bitcoin, we can always reconsider albeit a little too early. We have prepared a budget for all these and test the waters. I can always recommend to our management to stop our plans and inform the public beforehand. It was never our intention to scam people. How I wish I can tell you right now what company I'm working for. I just still can't. But it surely will remove all doubts.

For the time being, I will let Hunger Coins run and continue what we originally plan.

I hope to hear from you and more power.

[iamtheone]

We will be increasing the confirmations to 6 before processing within the next few hours. Thanks everyone for helping us out.

[Luke-Jr]

I find a little disturbing, however, if you intend to tell me that bitcoin can't scale to a level when our plans will take off. I really don't know how scalable bitcoin is as of the moment. I am more into business applications now.

Bitcoin can scale, but it takes adoption, effort, and time. If transactions soar to 100x the rate reasonable given the current adoption (as it does with the poor design used with this and SatoshiDice), everyone suffers. A simple way you could make this more reasonable would be to allow people to send multiples of 0.25 BTC instead of spamming a ton of transactions. To help the long-term scaling, companies that need the higher volumes could financially support development of such improvements (the most obvious one today being the p2p protocol needs reworking to propagate blocks reasonably).

[dooglus]

Please don't play this.

If it gets popular, then it is just "use the blockchain to create a Ponzi scheme". It can scale up, using new transactions to pay a little more to older transactions made 2 or 3 blocks ago. That's is the essence of a Ponzi scheme.

If you want to test something, use the testnet.  That is what it is for.

It seems that what he wants to test is how well the bitcoin network stands up to large numbers of transactions.  That's not something he can reasonably test using testnet since testnet doesn't have anything comparable in terms of current levels of transactions.

I can understand warning that this looks potentially like a scam, and that using it a lot is potentially damaging for the bitcoin network, but asking people not to play it seems too much.

What happened as a result of Matt's thread in which he complained about Satoshi Dice 'spam'?  I was watching it at one point but seem to have lost track of it.  Was any decision ever made regarding what to do about services which generate significant numbers of transactions?

[gmaxwell]

If you are saying so, we can always stop what we plan. If it means we can't sustain our plans for scalability reasons of bitcoin, we can always reconsider albeit a little too early. We have prepared a budget for all these and test the waters. I can always recommend to our management to stop our plans and inform the public beforehand. It was never our intention to scam people.

Your 'experiment' is indistinguishable from many popular scam patterns and your way of going about it creates enormous transaction loads which slow processing for regular usage, for no discernible benefit to the bitcoin economy. The secrecy and constant invocations of an undefined 'us' are also typical characteristics of scam behavior. A uncharitable interpretation might conclude that the secrecy only exists to isolate you from the consequences of your actions. Real "big companies" don't post ponzi schemes on forums without disclosing their identities or their motivations. Technical testing doesn't require weird schemes and public participation, and responsible engineering starts by asking what is already known. I call shenanigans. On the off chance that you're not full of it I'd like to speak to your supervisor, feel free to send me a private message. My gpg key is on bitcoin.org.

There is a separate test bitcoin network available for testing, you can also fairly easily run a private bitcoin network. There is no need to spend money or load the production network to test— unless you're just seeking to test the gullibility of the community.

That's not something he can reasonably test using testnet since testnet doesn't have anything comparable in terms of current levels of transactions.

You can trivially generate transaction load on testnet or an isolated test network and many people, myself included, would be glad to help out with any legitimate testing initiative on testnet.

[iamtheone]

Unfortunately, only time will tell and prove that we can sustain it. We will move in two directions. A satoshidice-like lottery and this but with longer confirmations. And then we will tie up with the trusted borrowers in this forum and lend to them.

Next year will be the target until we get enough data as to how we sustain it.

I didn't expect this kind of reception from other forum members this early but i'm still excited. In due time, we will prove ourselves.

[Vorksholk]

So far enjoying my 0.0005BTC.

It does create blockchain clutter I suppose... I'm not worrying about that though.

[iamtheone]

So far enjoying my 0.0005BTC.

It does create blockchain clutter I suppose... I'm not worrying about that though.

Well, I hope this will be the catalyst to improve the blockchain. Have you  tried winning bigger than 0.0005btc?

[Luke-Jr]

Unfortunately, only time will tell and prove that we can sustain it. We will move in two directions. A satoshidice-like lottery and this but with longer confirmations. And then we will tie up with the trusted borrowers in this forum and lend to them.

In other words, you will continue to use the blockchain abusively knowing full well that it harms the network? That makes you no better than someone intentionally attacking to take Bitcoin down.

[FreeMoney]

Please don't play this.

If it gets popular, then it is just "use the blockchain to create a Ponzi scheme". It can scale up, using new transactions to pay a little more to older transactions made 2 or 3 blocks ago. That's is the essence of a Ponzi scheme.

If you want to test something, use the testnet.  That is what it is for.

Read it again guys, he's not talking about chain bloat. He's talking about how payouts are going to stop coming.

'Testing' is a flimsy excuse for having people sent you .25 because there are other ways to test the code:

1. test it yourself with smaller amounts.
2. use the testnet for free.

I'm not saying this is definitely a scam, it's just indistinguishable from one, a la BS&T.

[iamtheone]

Unfortunately, only time will tell and prove that we can sustain it. We will move in two directions. A satoshidice-like lottery and this but with longer confirmations. And then we will tie up with the trusted borrowers in this forum and lend to them.

In other words, you will continue to use the blockchain abusively knowing full well that it harms the network? That makes you no better than someone intentionally attacking to take Bitcoin down.

I'm sorry I didn't mean that. If that's what we are causing, then we will take it down. But what stops the others from doing the same? How will you try to stop everyone looking at opportunities with bitcoin? Doesn't the solution lie in scaling bitcoin?

The question remains that I honestly still don't know the answer: Are we harming bitcoin now? If this gets popular, will we really harm it? I was waiting for Gavin's reply for my post earlier. I hope he will. I look up to him being the technical lead.

We are also considering other approaches like running a website but observing the same principles. Lottery and time deposits and lending.

[iamtheone]

Wow I just unlocked this thread. I'm sorry everyone if I was the one who accidentally locked it.

Moving on.....

[iamtheone]

A quote by me from the other thread

"If I offer people 0.5% interest on a loan after 1 hour, the elders of this forum will shout I am a scam. That is an attractive offer but I can't sustain that for a long time.

If I offer people 0.5% interest on a loan after 1 month, the elders of this forum will not do anything about it. It's not that attractive anyway and no one will loan me.

Therefore somewhere in between 1hour and 1month, a 0.5% interest rate will both be sustainable and profitable for me and my lenders. Let me find that sweet spot. I started hunger coins beta because of that. I had a budget to find that. Why stop me? Did I violate anything?

The lottery part of hunger coins was to make it more attractive and appealing.
Do the math, it's not hard to make things sustainable around bitcoin."

As I said, the confirmation times will be gradually increased to find the sweet spot for this to be profitable both ways.

[iamtheone]

FYI,

This application started about 24 hours ago and have successfully recieved and paid almost 1,200 bets. Right now, bets that will be processed are those with 6 confirmations. We will gradually increase it and observe the patterns of betting and try to find the best value where we can stop. It should be somewhere from 6 hour to 24 hours. Thanks to everyone and let us know any suggestions you may have on how we can improve this. Hopefully before the year ends, a sustainable setup can be established.

The original post will be updated regularly to reflect the confirmation times. Check it regularly before sending coins to know when to expect the payment.

Also, regarding the bitcoin scalability, it seems that was not the problem others wanted to raise. So I will leave that hanging for now.

Thank you.

[2weiX]

actually this is a pretty cool lending prospect, especially when it seems that the receiving/payout mechanisms are automated.

[iamtheone]

actually this is a pretty cool lending prospect, especially when it seems that the receiving/payout mechanisms are automated.

That's the plan with a lottery twist. And remember it's harder to find investors than borrowers so the borrower side is not a problem. The problem is trying to establish your reputation without being branded a scam. Imagine if that 1200 loans i paid the last 24 hours if I did it manually, my reputation would have shot up to the ceiling. 

And our core features would be: predictable (know when and how much to get paid), cheap (invest with small amounts), fast (automated micro loans). The only thing that needs to be determined is the interest rate that can be sustained. Then from there, a lot of sending addresses can be set up for different kinds of interests and time. Then it becomes a time deposit account with fixed rate and terms.

[2weiX]

actually this is a pretty cool lending prospect, especially when it seems that the receiving/payout mechanisms are automated.

That's the plan with a lottery twist. And remember it's harder to find investors than borrowers so the borrower side is not a problem. The problem is trying to establish your reputation without being branded a scam. Imagine if that 1200 loans i paid the last 24 hours if I did it manually, my reputation would have shot up to the ceiling. 

And our core features would be: predictable (know when and how much to get paid), cheap (invest with small amounts), fast (automated micro loans). The only thing that needs to be determined is the interest rate that can be sustained. Then from there, a lot of sending addresses can be set up for different kinds of interests and time. Then it becomes a time deposit account with fixed rate and terms.

and you would only run when the total rolling balance would exceed... which sweetspot? ;-D

[Gavin Andresen]

Unless you can clearly explain, in small words that even I can understand, HOW you are getting the bitcoins to pay interest I'm going to assume that this is Yet Another Ponzi Scheme.

I understand how SatoshiDice makes money, and I have no issues with them generating lots of transactions.

If you were CHARGING interest then I would understand, and would have no issues with your service.

So: how will HungerCoins make money?  And don't answer "I can't tell you or everybody else will do it," that is the Ponzi-operator's standard answer.

[iamtheone]

Unless you can clearly explain, in small words that even I can understand, HOW you are getting the bitcoins to pay interest I'm going to assume that this is Yet Another Ponzi Scheme.

I understand how SatoshiDice makes money, and I have no issues with them generating lots of transactions.

If you were CHARGING interest then I would understand, and would have no issues with your service.

So: how will HungerCoins make money?  And don't answer "I can't tell you or everybody else will do it," that is the Ponzi-operator's standard answer.

Hi Gavin,

Thanks a lot for taking your time to reply. And it's really a relief to know that you have no issues against SD type services.

The mission statement is to become the biggest and most trustworthy borrower and lender in the bitcoin world. It's really a matter of simple math. This is also what the lending subforum has been doing. Let's say I borrow A amount and pay I interest after T time, then I lend A amount for I+M interest after T time. If we can sustain it, then we profit M less overhead expenses/costs. In a nutshell that's how we plan to do it (among others). The problem we have is we can't really lend A amount since we need to have a buffer. What we are currently doing is to estimate the buffer we need based on the behavior of the lenders. And since we can only lend an amount less than A, we need to increase the interest we charge for lending to make it sustainable for us and at the same time make a profit. Aside from that, there are also risks in lending, we also need to consider that.

Now, we need to do this experiment and run some kind of monte carlo simulation to establish the best buffer level and prevent some kind of bank run. And at the same time make a reputation for ourselves to achieve our mission statement.

Also, we will be launching some kind of bitcoin lottery where the odds are in our favor but in a simplified way. Something like a single sending address fixed cost lottery with big payouts. We will also need to run some simulations to address big variances normally inherent in small bet / big payout gaming systems. And we will also need buffers to handle those variances.

Also, we plan to run bitcoin/fiat exchanges in the real world since we also believe this is the future of online currency.

There are so many possibilities on what we can do after this beta test. This is only a very small part of our plans. This is only to test the automated capturing of payments/sending of payments portion and at the same time try to get the feel of the bitcoin investors willing to invest in us. The way it was presented was a marketing decision to make it look like a lottery but it's actually some kind of investment on their part. We are spending for that. That's what businesses do to explore new opportunities. Initially spend. We wanted to sound attractive and catchy that's the only way we get noticed.

It's a free market, if somebody else will do it, then we just need to improve our services and reliability and trustworthiness. It will take time.
I hope my explanation is clear and simple enough. Thanks.

[thezerg]

Your "experiment" won't be that accurate because you are asking lenders to lend to a complete unknown.  Few will do that compared to other situations.

Give us a name and address, facebook account.  Prove FB by posting "bitcoin hunger games" on your wall.

Or prove you control a bunch of coins.

[rjbtc]

Your "experiment" won't be that accurate because you are asking lenders to lend to a complete unknown.  Few will do that compared to other situations.

Give us a name and address, facebook account.  Prove FB by posting "bitcoin hunger games" on your wall.

Or prove you control a bunch of coins.

What does a facebook account really prove? My wife used to be into Farmville, etc and I probably have 10 facebook "accounts" some complete with 100s of friends and at least a history of playing games.

[thezerg]

Your "experiment" won't be that accurate because you are asking lenders to lend to a complete unknown.  Few will do that compared to other situations.

Give us a name and address, facebook account.  Prove FB by posting "bitcoin hunger games" on your wall.

Or prove you control a bunch of coins.

What does a facebook account really prove? My wife used to be into Farmville, etc and I probably have 10 facebook "accounts" some complete with 100s of friends and at least a history of playing games.

Not much but you could look at it and at least separate the long from the short con.  Proving a RL to internet mapping to people who can only interact with you via the internet is a fascinating problem... even if he put "bitcoin hunger games" on his company site you could still imagine that the site was hacked...

[Gavin Andresen]

I hope my explanation is clear and simple enough. Thanks.

No, I don't understand.

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?

[iamtheone]

I hope my explanation is clear and simple enough. Thanks.

No, I don't understand.

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?

To those willing to borrow it. A lot of them in lending subforum. Besides, playing satoshi dice is an equivalent of borrowing at 1% interest or more every 10 seconds or less. And they just hit 1 million bets recently. That just means there is no problem on the lending side. There is no short supply of people who are willing to borrow. Visa and Mastercard proves that.

[VelvetLeaf]

You recently raise the waiting time to be 7 confirmations.
So, the waiting time will be longer and longer.
I'd imagine later people will have to wait until 500 - 1000 confirmations before they receive their money back.

[iamtheone]

You recently raise the waiting time to be 7 confirmations.
So, the waiting time will be longer and longer.
I'd imagine later people will have to wait until 500 - 1000 confirmations before they receive their money back.

It will be increased until 144 or less in a gradual way. Maybe an additional 1 to 4 confirmations per day. 144 confirmations is about 24 hours.

Also, soon a new receiving address will be announced where the confirmations will be fixed to 2. Details will be announced in a new thread. It is a new lottery system slightly different than this.

[Luke-Jr]

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

[AndyRossy]

Why not make it support either 0.25, or 1, 2 or 5 or something, with same %'s?

[iamtheone]

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems? I'm currently preparing HungerCoins Lottery, HungerCoins Invest, and HungerCoins Lending programs based on this beta test since I want it rolled out and announced this weekend and I have to stop to answer you and ask you if you are seriously asking me that? And what would stop me from using custom receiving address and custom payout address for each bettor or for each transaction? I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue. Are you a bitcoin developer? Let us hear from Gavin since I thought I heard him he does not have a problem with the technical side of it. I know he is worried with the intentions of HungerCoins and that is understandable. As I said it will take time.

[iamtheone]

Why not make it support either 0.25, or 1, 2 or 5 or something, with same %'s?

This is the plan. Different receiving addresses for different amounts/confirmations.

Currently finishing up the programs and we will be offering 3 different products:
HungerCoins Lottery
HungerCoins Invest
HungerCoins Lending

It will be individually rolled out as soon as each is ready.
This specific beta test will be used for HC Lottery and HC Invest. For HC Invest, the interests will just start on the conservative side (low interest payments per 24hours or 144 confirmations) then gradually increase it (effective interest) as the market becomes competitive.

[Luke-Jr]

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems?

Yes, I've blacklisted other known attacks. (Edit: the blacklist is on the transaction relay/inclusion policy for the Eligius mining pool, #bitcoin-watch, and any other miners who have merged my patch, and not currently easily expanded to new addresses)

I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue.

It's the only way that can be done overnight. Continuing to attack the network, and building up more attacks is certainly not the way to handle it.

Are you a bitcoin developer?

In fact, I'm the only developer so far (AFAIK) who has even tried to take a stab at fixing the problem you are exploiting (though I found it to be too complicated to fix than I have time for at the moment). But that's not really all that important: what matters is that this disrupts the network for everyone and has could trivially be done in a way that doesn't.

[iamtheone]

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems?

Yes, I've blacklisted other known attacks. (Edit: the blacklist is on the transaction relay/inclusion policy for the Eligius mining pool, #bitcoin-watch, and any other miners who have merged my patch, and not currently easily expanded to new addresses)

I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue.

It's the only way that can be done overnight. Continuing to attack the network, and building up more attacks is certainly not the way to handle it.

Are you a bitcoin developer?

In fact, I'm the only developer so far (AFAIK) who has even tried to take a stab at fixing the problem you are exploiting (though I found it to be too complicated to fix than I have time for at the moment). But that's not really all that important: what matters is that this disrupts the network for everyone and has could trivially be done in a way that doesn't.

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business? I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.
May I know which programs/service you blacklisted?

[iamtheone]

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems?

Yes, I've blacklisted other known attacks. (Edit: the blacklist is on the transaction relay/inclusion policy for the Eligius mining pool, #bitcoin-watch, and any other miners who have merged my patch, and not currently easily expanded to new addresses)

I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue.

It's the only way that can be done overnight. Continuing to attack the network, and building up more attacks is certainly not the way to handle it.

Are you a bitcoin developer?

In fact, I'm the only developer so far (AFAIK) who has even tried to take a stab at fixing the problem you are exploiting (though I found it to be too complicated to fix than I have time for at the moment). But that's not really all that important: what matters is that this disrupts the network for everyone and has could trivially be done in a way that doesn't.

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business? I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.
May I know which programs/services you blacklisted?

And how do you plan to stop those doing a custom receiving address and custom payout address per transaction? I can also do that.

[Luke-Jr]

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business?

Just implement what you need in a way that doesn't encourage people to abuse the network. If someone wants to spend 50 BTC on your service, let them send 50 BTC instead of demanding they chop it up in 200 pieces. In some cases (this one sounds like one), it makes sense to keep a side-side balance so a single withdrawl transaction can be made when they are done.

I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.

The only reason I even found your service was because it was flooding #Bitcoin-Watch to the point of crowding out the normal traffic.

May I know which programs/service you blacklisted?

The only other one that has been as disruptive so far is SatoshiDice.

[iamtheone]

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business?

Just implement what you need in a way that doesn't encourage people to abuse the network. If someone wants to spend 50 BTC on your service, let them send 50 BTC instead of demanding they chop it up in 200 pieces. In some cases (this one sounds like one), it makes sense to keep a side-side balance so a single withdrawl transaction can be made when they are done.

I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.

The only reason I even found your service was because it was flooding #Bitcoin-Watch to the point of crowding out the normal traffic.

May I know which programs/service you blacklisted?

The only other one that has been as disruptive so far is SatoshiDice.

Thanks for your reply. For HC Invest, I plan to put different addresses for 0.25, 0.5, 1, and 5 bitcoins and the payout will be every 144 confirmations. I hope that will be fair with you. Do you agree?

For HC Lottery, it's a single 0.10 or 0.25 bet and payout every 2 confirmations. This one, I'm not sure how disruptive. Any suggestions?

For HC Lending, well this is a slow one. We will lend probably on a weekly basis. Not finalized yet.

[iamtheone]

I think this is only disruptive for now because of short confirmations and small amounts. I'm gradually increasing it anyway.

[iamtheone]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for taking part in this. I am increasing the confirmation to 144 in about 4 hours from now. It will mean your payment will be sent after about 24 hours from your bet. I would assume most of you will stop. It is still a good investment scheme for you but I'm sure it will greatly slow down the bitcoin attack scenario. This will still run indefinitely and other services will still be added for different amounts of bets/investments. 144 confirmations, I assume is a sustainable setting for us, although unattractive for you. If you stop sending, we would understand. Thanks for participating.

The original post will be edited to reflect this change in a while to provide sufficient warning. However, the actual change will be done 4 hours from now. It means all bets placed 4 hours from now shall follow a 24 hour window before it will be processed/returned. Thanks.

Watch out for roll outs of our other products:

HungerCoins Lottery
HungerCoins Invest
HungerCoins Lending

[iamtheone]

Or you can altogether stop sending and wait for just our final product that will hopefully not be considered a bitcoin attack. Although the 144 confirmation increase will probably help a lot already easing the network since you can't reuse the same coin within 24 hours. I will just increase it to that level simply because I don't want to manually send it back. Thanks everyone.

[Gavin Andresen]

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?

To those willing to borrow it. A lot of them in lending subforum.

How can Hunger Coin guarantee payback if you are lending the coins to people who may not pay YOU back?

I'm sorry, but "Hunger Invest" and "Hunger Lending" still sound like Ponzi schemes to me.

[iamtheone]

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?

To those willing to borrow it. A lot of them in lending subforum.

How can Hunger Coin guarantee payback if you are lending the coins to people who may not pay YOU back?

I'm sorry, but "Hunger Invest" and "Hunger Lending" still sound like Ponzi schemes to me.

I'm sorry to hear that. All those people in the lending subforum who borrow and lend for profit must all be ponzi schemes too if we follow that logic. And we can also include everyone with credit cards too. Hmmmm, how then do we address it?

[dooglus]

Thanks for your reply. For HC Invest, I plan to put different addresses for 0.25, 0.5, 1, and 5 bitcoins and the payout will be every 144 confirmations. I hope that will be fair with you. Do you agree?

Why not allow any amount between stated allowable min and max values, all to the same address?  If the value is not acceptable, you treat it how you currently treat any non-0.25 value.  I don't think you need to use different addresses or limit your users to certain round numbers.  If you're willing to accept 'bets' of 5 BTC, why not also accept bets of 4.932345 BTC?  That way people don't have to send multiple transactions.

You could even offer to split bets that exceed the maximum up into multiple bets of the maximum, and find some way to generate a different hash for each such bet.  Perhaps by re-hashing the txid after appending the bet number to it.  So instead of comparing the last digits of txid with block hash, you compare the last digits of sha256(txid + "0") for the first such bet, sha256(txid + "1") for the 2nd, etc.  Then I can "invest" an arbitrary amount without spamming the blockchain.

[iamtheone]

A new announcement has been made in the bottom portion of the original post.
We now accept 0.25 to 10 bitcoins in this address: 1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK
Please read the original post.
Thanks.

Btw, the original address will still work unchanged.

[iamtheone]

Thanks for your reply. For HC Invest, I plan to put different addresses for 0.25, 0.5, 1, and 5 bitcoins and the payout will be every 144 confirmations. I hope that will be fair with you. Do you agree?

Why not allow any amount between stated allowable min and max values, all to the same address?  If the value is not acceptable, you treat it how you currently treat any non-0.25 value.  I don't think you need to use different addresses or limit your users to certain round numbers.  If you're willing to accept 'bets' of 5 BTC, why not also accept bets of 4.932345 BTC?  That way people don't have to send multiple transactions.

You could even offer to split bets that exceed the maximum up into multiple bets of the maximum, and find some way to generate a different hash for each such bet.  Perhaps by re-hashing the txid after appending the bet number to it.  So instead of comparing the last digits of txid with block hash, you compare the last digits of sha256(txid + "0") for the first such bet, sha256(txid + "1") for the 2nd, etc.  Then I can "invest" an arbitrary amount without spamming the blockchain.

Thanks doodlus
You really are smart. What do you think of the changes? I hope they will accept the 144 confirmations.

[Gavin Andresen]

I'm sorry to hear that. All those people in the lending subforum who borrow and lend for profit must all be ponzi schemes too if we follow that logic. And we can also include everyone with credit cards too. Hmmmm, how then do we address it?

You address it by explaining where the bitcoins come from for the 'guaranteed' payouts.

Credit cards make money by charging merchants a fee, charging interest on late payments, etc. And they mitigate their risk by running credit reports on borrowers.

Legitimate lenders do something similar.

So, I'll ask again: what is your business model?  How will you make the money to payback the people who are sending you X bitcoins and expecting to get X+Y back in a day?

[iamtheone]

I'm sorry to hear that. All those people in the lending subforum who borrow and lend for profit must all be ponzi schemes too if we follow that logic. And we can also include everyone with credit cards too. Hmmmm, how then do we address it?

You address it by explaining where the bitcoins come from for the 'guaranteed' payouts.

Credit cards make money by charging merchants a fee, charging interest on late payments, etc. And they mitigate their risk by running credit reports on borrowers.

Legitimate lenders do something similar.

So, I'll ask again: what is your business model?  How will you make the money to payback the people who are sending you X bitcoins and expecting to get X+Y back in a day?

As I said, it's lending and borrowing. We will lend at more interest than we borrow. And it will not be just daily. It can be weekly or more. Banks work like that, right? Don't you believe that people in lending subforum do that? I'm just automating the borrowing part and put some kind of attraction to it. What's wrong with that?

[iamtheone]

I hope you are not just zeroing in on me. I am even in the gambling subforum.

[dooglus]

I'm just automating the borrowing part and put some kind of attraction to it. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is that if you allow people to borrow anonymously you vastly increase the probability of them never repaying their loan.  I didn't see any details of how you're going to credit check your borrowers, but if you let people somehow automatically and anonymously 'borrow' from you, I don't think you can expect to get many of your loans repaid.  Some people would be honest, but I suspect that most would think along the lines of "I'm not going to lose any reputation, and I'm not going to get into trouble if I don't repay this - some I won't repay this".

Maybe the loans won't be anonymous, and you're proposing some automatic way that I can prove I'm creditworthy to your script.  I'd like to see how that works...

[OneEyed]

I'm just automating the borrowing part and put some kind of attraction to it. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is that if you allow people to borrow anonymously you vastly increase the probability of them never repaying their loan.

I understood "the borrowing part" as "how we will borrow money so that we can lend it for higher interest rates". It makes more sense than your interpretation.

[iamtheone]

New announcement (This seemed not to be noticed in the original post so it's reposted here)

A new address is now available which will accept bets from 0.25 to 10 bitcoins: 1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK
The same ROI as above. You still can not lose. You can earn 0.2%, 2%, 20%, 200%, 2,000% for each bet between 0.25 to 10 bitcoins. The only catch is we will send your winnings after 144 confirmations or about 24 hours. This will hopefully addresss the "bitcoin attack issue" raised by some members of the community.

Blockexplorer.com raw data will still be our official data source.

Also, a famous figure of the bitcoin world thinks this is a ponzi. If you also think so, don't send us any coins.

Next week, we will be accepting loan requests from the community. A separate announcement will be made for it.

Some explanations and analyses

Everytime some coins is sent on the above address, we will lose on average about 0.45% value after about 24 hours. In effect, we are like borrowing from the bettors and repaying it in 24 hours for a little interest. However, we have 24 hours to use that money to invest or to lend for more interest and make some profit. If we keep on doing that, we can sustain everything. The lending portion is not the hard part. There are so many people willing to borrow bitcoins for much higher interest. The hard part is finding people who are trustworthy enough. This will be mostly manual and tedious. And if we create some kind of system, we don't have to offer just 24 hour terms. We can make it weekly or more as long as we have enough buffers. Aside from that, we have made some analyses using monte carlo simulation and neural networks and genetic algorithms across the whole blockchain and assigned the popular addresses and links. And studying market data and finding opportunities. It can be proven, that there are many opportunities in the bitcoin world that exists everyday that would mean we can make more than the interest we pay to the bettors. This one can be automated. Using artificial intelligence, our application can send us proper investment signals after detecting right opportunities after consuming various data from various sources. The automating portion is not quite done yet but it will be ready soon. It looks promising.

What we are offering is some kind of a game where the bettors can't lose. And just like a lottery, you get your winnings the next day (not instantly). If we gain popularity, we will have enough buffers and leverage it to profit to those opportunities constantly appearing and disappearing in the bitcoin world.

[Blind]

using monte carlo simulation and neural networks and genetic algorithms [...] using artificial intelligence

This sure sounds like a scam.

[JoelKatz]

What we are offering is some kind of a game where the bettors can't lose. And just like a lottery, you get your winnings the next day (not instantly). If we gain popularity, we will have enough buffers and leverage it to profit to those opportunities constantly appearing and disappearing in the bitcoin world.

The bettors certainly can lose. If you make bad loans, you won't have the money to pay the bettors back, and they lose. Right?

If you had enough money of your own to ensure you could pay the bettors back even if your loans fail, why wouldn't you just lend that money and keep all the profits?

Since the bettors can lose, they need some way to determine what the odds are of them losing. Otherwise, they can't tell if this is a good deal or a bad deal. So how do they tell?

[nimda]

So how do they tell?

Anonymous Jr. member with no prior transaction history, speaking of an unmentioned "we," proclaims breakthrough research in genetic algorithms, neural networks, and artificial intelligence; s/he offers a net 3.15% weekly.

VS

1 month old Jr. member who has donated $100 to bitcointalk.org borrows at 3% interest to finance short term investments, mining, and private lending; he has an A- credit rating from PatrickHarnett.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96163.0

You decide

[iamtheone]

So how do they tell?

Anonymous Jr. member with no prior transaction history, speaking of an unmentioned "we," proclaims breakthrough research in genetic algorithms, neural networks, and artificial intelligence; s/he offers a net 3.15% weekly.

VS

1 month old Jr. member who has donated $100 to bitcointalk.org borrows at 3% interest to finance short term investments, mining, and private lending; he has an A- credit rating from PatrickHarnett.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96163.0

You decide

Did I mention breakthrough? The technology has long been there. It's just that I automated some things. And that other borrower you are promoting here also started as an unknown. And what happened to "don't put all your eggs in one basket"? I provide a convenient alternative. It's up to them to decide. I don't hijack others' threads. I stay here. I'm even in the gambling forum, they are in lending. Let's see who will still be here in 5 years.

[nimda]

Yes, let's see.

[JoelKatz]

I'm even in the gambling forum ...

There's a difference between gambling and scamming. When gambling, you know what the odds are, and the risk is not that the house won't pay out. With scamming, you have no idea what the odds are, and the risk is that the house will not pay out as agreed.

[iamtheone]

BitCoin Lottery is now live!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105396.0
You can turn your 0.01 bitcoins into 500.

[squall1066]

Dude, 3 confirmations, then 6, then 7, then WTF 144!! dude seriously?

[iamtheone]

Dude, 3 confirmations, then 6, then 7, then WTF 144!! dude seriously?

Honestly, I didn't want to. My original target was to reach 144 in december. But if you followed the thread, even the technical lead of bitcoin accused me of things. Then I deployed another instant lottery, then another one accused me of things again. But if enough people are interested, we can restart down to, say, 6 confirmations and increase it to +1 confirmation per day. I would love that. Let's see who will be interested. I don't care anymore what they accuse me of. Esp now HungerCoin Lottery is already live.

[squall1066]

Dude, 3 confirmations, then 6, then 7, then WTF 144!! dude seriously?

Honestly, I didn't want to. My original target was to reach 144 in december. But if you followed the thread, even the technical lead of bitcoin accused me of things. Then I deployed another instant lottery, then another one accused me of things again. But if enough people are interested, we can restart down to, say, 6 confirmations and increase it to +1 confirmation per day. I would love that. Let's see who will be interested. I don't care anymore what they accuse me of. Esp now HungerCoin Lottery is already live.

TBH I would have been happy with 20-30 so a few hours, otherwise who will send 0.25 to get back 0.2505 in 1 day?

[iamtheone]

I'll restart it to 30. Wait.

[iamtheone]

I'll restart it to 30. Wait.

Done. It's set to 30 now and it will be increased +1 per day until 144. If you have pending bets, it should be processed shortly. Also please read the original post. There is a new address where you can send any amount from 0.25 to 10 bitcoins with the same return rates. Let me know if you have problems.

[squall1066]

I'll restart it to 30. Wait.

Done. It's set to 30 now and it will be increased +1 per day until 144. If you have pending bets, it should be processed shortly. Also please read the original post. There is a new address where you can send any amount from 0.25 to 10 bitcoins with the same return rates. Let me know if you have problems.

I am a happy bunny now. Also, don't worry about the accusations, your getting off lightly, see dank banks thread, over 20 pages of trolling LOL

[iamtheone]

I'll restart it to 30. Wait.

Done. It's set to 30 now and it will be increased +1 per day until 144. If you have pending bets, it should be processed shortly. Also please read the original post. There is a new address where you can send any amount from 0.25 to 10 bitcoins with the same return rates. Let me know if you have problems.

I am a happy bunny now. Also, don't worry about the accusations, your getting off lightly, see dank banks thread, over 20 pages of trolling LOL

If you have pending payments, just wait a while. It's still catching up from 144 ago to 30 confirmations ago at the rate of about 3 per minute.

[iamtheone]

I noticed some of you are still sending multiple 0.25 to second address. Please be informed you can now combine that up to 10 btc and send to 1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK. This way you can save in transaction fees.

[Luke-Jr]

I noticed some of you are still sending multiple 0.25 to second address. Please be informed you can now combine that up to 10 btc and send to 1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK. This way you can save in transaction fees.

That's an improvement, but why the 10 BTC limit? If you need a new hash to gamble on, just take SHA256(txid) for each subsequent bet.

[Vorksholk]

I noticed some of you are still sending multiple 0.25 to second address. Please be informed you can now combine that up to 10 btc and send to 1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK. This way you can save in transaction fees.

That's an improvement, but why the 10 BTC limit? If you need a new hash to gamble on, just take SHA256(txid) for each subsequent bet.

I would imagine a 10 BTC limit as 2000% on 10 is 20000.

[jasinlee]

Yeah that would break the bank I am sure.

[dooglus]

I would imagine a 10 BTC limit as 2000% on 10 is 20000.

2000% of 10 is 200.  You don't just multiply, or 100% of 1 would be 100.

I wonder if people are sending 40 separate 0.25 bets rather than one single 10 BTC bet because that way they have 40 separate chances to 'win the jackpot'.  Perhaps you could treat a bet of 10 BTC as 40 separate 0.25 bets and calculate the winning for each separately (but appending a different number to the txid or block hash before rehashing it, and sending the resulting winnings in a single output.  That way people get the reduced variance of betting lots of small bets without needing to spam the network.

Also, I'd suggest not mentioning the original 0.25-only address in the OP, since that's the one people see first.  Some probably stop reading before they get to the new address at the end of the OP.

[dooglus]

I would imagine a 10 BTC limit as 2000% on 10 is 20000.

2000% of 10 is 200.  You don't just multiply, or 100% of 1 would be 100.

I wonder if people are sending 40 separate 0.25 bets rather than one single 10 BTC bet because that way they have 40 separate chances to 'win the jackpot'.  Perhaps you could treat a bet of 10 BTC as 40 separate 0.25 bets and calculate the winning for each separately (but appending a different number to the txid or block hash before rehashing it, and sending the resulting winnings in a single output.  That way people get the reduced variance of betting lots of small bets without needing to spam the network.

Also, I'd suggest not mentioning the original 0.25-only address in the OP, since that's the one people see first.  Some probably stop reading before they get to the new address at the end of the OP.

[iamtheone]

Thanks for the insights. That will be considered. The only reason why it's one bet per transaction is because it is simple for bettors to see the last N digits of their transaction hash as their ticket number and as soon as it is included in the block, it is easy for them to know if they won or not and how much they won.

[dooglus]

Thanks for the insights. That will be considered. The only reason why it's one bet per transaction is because it is simple for bettors to see the last N digits of their transaction hash as their ticket number and as soon as it is included in the block, it is easy for them to know if they won or not and how much they won.

It would be pretty trivial to make a web page that lets the user copy/paste in the txid and block hash and have it display all the bet hashes, winnings, and a total.  Perhaps offer 2 different addresses - one which counts the payment as a single bet, and one which treats it as a series of 0.25 BTC bets?  That way people can decide whether they want the variance or not.

[iamtheone]

The original post has been edited already to reflect the changes. And the thread name, too.

[iamtheone]

Thanks for the insights. That will be considered. The only reason why it's one bet per transaction is because it is simple for bettors to see the last N digits of their transaction hash as their ticket number and as soon as it is included in the block, it is easy for them to know if they won or not and how much they won.

It would be pretty trivial to make a web page that lets the user copy/paste in the txid and block hash and have it display all the bet hashes, winnings, and a total.  Perhaps offer 2 different addresses - one which counts the payment as a single bet, and one which treats it as a series of 0.25 BTC bets?  That way people can decide whether they want the variance or not.

Thanks dooglus for the inputs. I'm practicing creating some websites to further expand operations. Still not comfortable with hacking issues.

[Vorksholk]

I would imagine a 10 BTC limit as 2000% on 10 is 20000.

2000% of 10 is 200.  You don't just multiply, or 100% of 1 would be 100.

I wonder if people are sending 40 separate 0.25 bets rather than one single 10 BTC bet because that way they have 40 separate chances to 'win the jackpot'.  Perhaps you could treat a bet of 10 BTC as 40 separate 0.25 bets and calculate the winning for each separately (but appending a different number to the txid or block hash before rehashing it, and sending the resulting winnings in a single output.  That way people get the reduced variance of betting lots of small bets without needing to spam the network.

Also, I'd suggest not mentioning the original 0.25-only address in the OP, since that's the one people see first.  Some probably stop reading before they get to the new address at the end of the OP.

Oh right :facepalm: math stupidity...

[iamtheone]

Started a general discussion thread entitled:

HungerCoins: sustainable or not?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105578.0

[AndyRossy]

I get it's unlikely, but, what if someone hits one of the top 2 "prizes" with a large bet before things are saturated - especially before the Lottery has taken off (assuming it does?) - what will happen?

[Zillions]

Aw what the Heck I'll take a bite of this apple ...
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/19054056/549272718f6f4c93e5b6bd4ba2a845c9a53d54d508751e2ea602461696d324a4
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/19054011/b18b1af5d3461d2404632c6d950a2a58e80552db0db0e118068f6c0f9ffef59a
Let's see if we get my coins back in what? Eta 12hrs?

[Zillions]

Aw Man I just realized I have no way of "proving" a payment I made via GLBSE what adress it came from so can't look it up via blockchain. For all I know everything from GLBSE comes from one adress.
Any help guys?

Withdrawal history
Amount   To address   Date
-0.25   1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK   2012-09-03 01:19:40

[Lumpy]

Aw Man I just realized I have no way of "proving" a payment I made via GLBSE what adress it came from so can't look it up via blockchain. For all I know everything from GLBSE comes from one adress.
Any help guys?

Withdrawal history
Amount   To address   Date
-0.25   1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK   2012-09-03 01:19:40

Don't use an exchange wallet for things that need to return to the sending address.

[Zillions]

Yeah crap I know that *NOW* thought I could save the 2 extra transaction fees by sending strait from where I had my funds at the time. *poof* 0.25BTC gone T_T.

[AndyRossy]

I think it's a bit crappy, that, if you send and it's 30 confirmations, you can change to say 32, then I have to wait another 2..... surely those sent before the change, should receive the confirmation limit at time of sending?

[iamtheone]

I think it's a bit crappy, that, if you send and it's 30 confirmations, you can change to say 32, then I have to wait another 2..... surely those sent before the change, should receive the confirmation limit at time of sending?

It's only at most +1 per day. So additional 10 minutes of wait if it's changed when you placed a bet.

[iamtheone]

I get it's unlikely, but, what if someone hits one of the top 2 "prizes" with a large bet before things are saturated - especially before the Lottery has taken off (assuming it does?) - what will happen?

The risk or ruin is very small. Although quite remote, what is tragic is a long string of successive jackpots. That is very unlikely to happen though. To be honest, it would be something like a fire, flood, earthquake, war happening in the place where you have business all at the same time.

[JoelKatz]

The risk or ruin is very small. Although quite remote, what is tragic is a long string of successive jackpots. That is very unlikely to happen though. To be honest, it would be something like a fire, flood, earthquake, war happening in the place where you have business all at the same time.

Nevertheless, you are gambling with money that you cannot afford to lose. You may wish to rethink how wise that is. One of the basic rules of operating a gambling establishment is that you *must* be sufficiently well-funded that a couple of jackpots don't ruin you.

Depending on how your customers bet, it's not unusual to have a well-run gambling establishment that has more losing days than winning days. For example, look at Satoshi Dice. You have to have the financing to let the law of averages catch up.

[iamtheone]

The risk or ruin is very small. Although quite remote, what is tragic is a long string of successive jackpots. That is very unlikely to happen though. To be honest, it would be something like a fire, flood, earthquake, war happening in the place where you have business all at the same time.

Nevertheless, you are gambling with money that you cannot afford to lose. You may wish to rethink how wise that is. One of the basic rules of operating a gambling establishment is that you *must* be sufficiently well-funded that a couple of jackpots don't ruin you.

Depending on how your customers bet, it's not unusual to have a well-run gambling establishment that has more losing days than winning days. For example, look at Satoshi Dice. You have to have the financing to let the law of averages catch up.

Not exactly, we have the money. If that very remote case will happen, we will be forced to close down and pay what needs to be paid. Only a long string of unfortunate events will make that happen and we will have to close on the early part of that. Even SD will be forced to close if that tragic thing will happen I believe. Or any business.

[2weiX]

so i send 1 btc a couple of times.
for a not so-intimately-familiar-with-the-blockchain.... where does I clicks to see them numbers to determine my winnings?

[iamtheone]

so i send 1 btc a couple of times.
for a not so-intimately-familiar-with-the-blockchain.... where does I clicks to see them numbers to determine my winnings?

If you know your transaction hash, you can put it in the searchbox here: http://blockchain.info/ and press enter.
Then click the hyperlink next to the "included in block" to know the block hash.
Then compare the last digits of both the transaction hash and the block hash.

Although our official source is blockexplorer.com, blockchain.info is more use friendly.
Let me know if you get it.

[AndyRossy]

Could you confirm it's still 32 confirmations? I have transactions on 32 confirmations without anything sent back.

[AndyRossy]

Could you confirm it's still 32 confirmations? I have transactions on 32 confirmations without anything sent back.

OK it was paid after 34 confirmations I think?

[Zillions]

Weird I have transaction f5d4f2021e4f858067dda7d1a1a918d0f09518f6ccdd62499822a7a82397d749 it's been sitting unconfirmed since "2012-09-04 17:40:08 Unconfirmed Transaction!   -0.25005" almost 6 hours ago.
Sent it from a proper online wallet this time.

https://blockchain.info/tx/f5d4f2021e4f858067dda7d1a1a918d0f09518f6ccdd62499822a7a82397d749/f5d4f2021e4f858067dda7d1a1a918d0f09518f6ccdd62499822a7a82397d749

[EDIT:] even Weirder is I have another transaction that was sent right after that is almost at 32 confirmations! WTH https://blockchain.info/tx/09a435adafb9d03b9bfebcb5410d5d3ea0fb0c3b0c5ae76b59c3b5dd5edd4210/09a435adafb9d03b9bfebcb5410d5d3ea0fb0c3b0c5ae76b59c3b5dd5edd4210

[Edit.pt2] Wth that above tranaction where I sent 0.5BTC I "think" just came back since they just hit the  33 confirmations but came back as 2 seperate transaction one 0.249
https://blockchain.info/tx/ec424d83477f2caab6b06ab8e450e7b74b858741824eb67ca1f3346cffad0b67/ec424d83477f2caab6b06ab8e450e7b74b858741824eb67ca1f3346cffad0b67
and the other as 0.2505BTC
https://blockchain.info/tx/6fadc38e2ea50dde820f19380d2e524cae912bb1ff5b60f07575ca1522d35d58/6fadc38e2ea50dde820f19380d2e524cae912bb1ff5b60f07575ca1522d35d58
I thought amounts in multiples of 0.25 was definitely ok let alone amount between 0.25BTC and 10BTC

[Edit.pt3] Phew ok *Finnally* 82397d749 got it's first confirmation at EST 01:54hrs NFC why it took that long yet a transaction to the same adress with more money right after went though immediately yet came back before it even confirmed.

Still think there's a bug that sent back 3b5dd5edd4210 as two seperate payments in *Edit.pt2* one as "incorrect ammount other than 0.25" and one "standard Case 5" repayment? Iamtheone any idea why?

[iamtheone]

If you send more than once in a single transaction, only the first one will count as valid.

[iamtheone]

Please check your transaction history. I think I found 2 sends in a single transaction of 0.25 each. The second one was flagged as invalid.

[iamtheone]

Could you confirm it's still 32 confirmations? I have transactions on 32 confirmations without anything sent back.

There are times when blockexplorer.com is delayed in publishing the blocks. Maybe that's why.

[Zillions]

Please check your transaction history. I think I found 2 sends in a single transaction of 0.25 each. The second one was flagged as invalid.

https://blockchain.info/tx/09a435adafb9d03b9bfebcb5410d5d3ea0fb0c3b0c5ae76b59c3b5dd5edd4210

Nope that's what I was showing you with the transaction data here's the link again https://blockchain.info/tx/09a435adafb9d03b9bfebcb5410d5d3ea0fb0c3b0c5ae76b59c3b5dd5edd4210 it was a single payment sent out as 0.50005BTC and 0.002759[ BTC] change sent back to myself for what ever reason I don't understand the cryptography of bitcoins enough to understand why transactions are sent this way.

Any way even if it was sent out as two why would it matter if your allowing transactions between 0.0011BTC and 10BTC that is *STILL* a valid amount correct?

[iamtheone]

Please check your transaction history. I think I found 2 sends in a single transaction of 0.25 each. The second one was flagged as invalid.

https://blockchain.info/tx/09a435adafb9d03b9bfebcb5410d5d3ea0fb0c3b0c5ae76b59c3b5dd5edd4210

Nope that's what I was showing you with the transaction data here's the link again https://blockchain.info/tx/09a435adafb9d03b9bfebcb5410d5d3ea0fb0c3b0c5ae76b59c3b5dd5edd4210 it was a single payment sent out as 0.50005BTC and 0.002759[ BTC] change sent back to myself for what ever reason I don't understand the cryptography of bitcoins enough to understand why transactions are sent this way.

Any way even if it was sent out as two why would it matter if your allowing transactions between 0.0011BTC and 10BTC that is *STILL* a valid amount correct?

It is actually two 0.25 BTC sends in one transaction as shown here https://blockexplorer.com/tx/09a435adafb9d03b9bfebcb5410d5d3ea0fb0c3b0c5ae76b59c3b5dd5edd4210

In the original post, only one ticket per transaction will be allowed. The reason for this is to reduce the variance. You can either send the two 0.25 in separate transactions or send it as one 0.50 in one transaction.

[Zillions]

I realize I'm being a pain about this but ...
I USED my blockchain.info wallet to send that transaction granted I used a diffrent than standard transaction fee but YES  I sent 0.5BTC in one transaction.
Other than paying the standard fee (yes I'm greedy because I'm almost broke) I don't see how I could have done it any differently and not gotten the same result. Bad enough I lost a whole return transaction by trying to send from my GLBSE wallet to avoid a few transaction fees now I'm getting dinged when I do it the *right* way?

[dooglus]

Nope that's what I was showing you with the transaction data here's the link again https://blockchain.info/tx/09a435adafb9d03b9bfebcb5410d5d3ea0fb0c3b0c5ae76b59c3b5dd5edd4210 it was a single payment sent out as 0.50005BTC

See at the bottom of that page, there's a link: "Advanced: Enable".  Click it.  Then you'll see the advanced view which shows you it's actually 2 separate 0.25 payments, not a single 0.50.

[iamtheone]

Just reached the 500th bet. Nobody ever lost I would say. But nobody also hit big yet. Still waiting......

[gbl08ma]

Tried this out now. Sent the coins from a blockchain.info wallet. Used the "Custom" option on the "Send Money" screen to make sure everything was being sent from the same address, and that the change address was that very same one.
Sent without transaction fees, it's included in a block already (and no, I didn't get lucky).
https://blockchain.info/tx/b68f35796dcfcf729129340ef62db83f51f082daa7ce999ac1895a731654b3ec?show_adv=false

[gbl08ma]

35 confirmations now, and no money back the money is back. I just earned... 0.0005 BTC 

[miln40]

Will give a 0.25 BTC a spin with this and report back.
Question though:
Isn't the payout for higher matches a bit low, considering how statistically unlikely it is that the last 3 or 4 matches occur? Actually, how likely are they to occur?

[OneEyed]

Will give a 0.25 BTC a spin with this and report back.
Question though:
Isn't the payout for higher matches a bit low, considering how statistically unlikely it is that the last 3 or 4 matches occur? Actually, how likely are they to occur?

With 16 hexadecimal digits in every position, you have one chance out of 16 to have one matching digit, 1/256 for two matching digits, 1/4096 for three, 1/65536 for four.

[iamtheone]

Will give a 0.25 BTC a spin with this and report back.
Question though:
Isn't the payout for higher matches a bit low, considering how statistically unlikely it is that the last 3 or 4 matches occur? Actually, how likely are they to occur?

Remember that you'll still win even if you totally miss. Think of it as a micro time deposit. Every once in a while you'll get lucky and hit bigger.

[dooglus]

Will give a 0.25 BTC a spin with this and report back.
Question though:
Isn't the payout for higher matches a bit low, considering how statistically unlikely it is that the last 3 or 4 matches occur? Actually, how likely are they to occur?

Remember that you'll still win even if you totally miss. Think of it as a micro time deposit. Every once in a while you'll get lucky and hit bigger.

Each extra digit you match increases your profit by a factor of 10, whereas the difficulty of doing so increases by a factor of 16.  But since it's all free money we can't really complain that the difficulty increases faster than the payout.  (Not until they run off with our deposits, anyway )

[Shermo]

Sent 0.25 and got 0.2505 back Sent another one in just now... just need to wait about 6 hours, although I haven't won big checking the details on blockchain... oh well!

[iamtheone]

Will give a 0.25 BTC a spin with this and report back.

How did it go?

[FLHippy]

Hello Bitcoiners,

HungerCoins Invest - the odds are ever in your favor.

Would you bet in a lottery if you know you can't lose?

I really felt that in order to become accepted in this forum I needed to become the victim of a ponzi scheme. This being a super obvious ponzi, I sent my .25 and was disappointed to get back .2505. So I sent 2.25.. A small price to pay to wear that victim badge. But GOD DAMN IT! I got back 2.2545!!!!

WTF!

Could you please tell me when this is about to come crashing down so I can get my victim of a ponzi scheme merrit badge?

Thank you.

[Shermo]

Sent 0.95BTC, just got 0.9519 back about 6 hours later Maybe the idea is eventually everyone will be sending in the full 10BTC and then WHAM money gone...? Or maybe he genuinely has some sort of business case..?

[gbl08ma]

I agree this sounds phishy but if they were to run with the money like that, they could accept higher deposits, like 100 BTC. Since they can only run with the money once, they better do it with a large amount (i.e. take more than 10 BTC, if they can).

This means the trick must be somewhere else

[OneEyed]

Sent 0.95BTC, just got 0.9519 back about 6 hours later Maybe the idea is eventually everyone will be sending in the full 10BTC and then WHAM money gone...? Or maybe he genuinely has some sort of business case..?

I have sent various amounts (including 10BTC) repeatedly (thanks Python for that), and so far the money got returned every time

[Shermo]

I have sent various amounts (including 10BTC) repeatedly (thanks Python for that), and so far the money got returned every time

Thats good to know Has anyone managed to match 1 or more digits yet?

[OneEyed]

I have sent various amounts (including 10BTC) repeatedly (thanks Python for that), and so far the money got returned every time

Thats good to know Has anyone managed to match 1 or more digits yet?

Yes, I've had one matching digit several times, but never two matching ones.

[md2k7]

Earned 0.0005 BTC... Thanks.

[dooglus]

Sent 0.95BTC, just got 0.9519 back about 6 hours later Maybe the idea is eventually everyone will be sending in the full 10BTC and then WHAM money gone...? Or maybe he genuinely has some sort of business case..?

I tried with 5 BTC then 10 BTC and both came back:

[iamtheone]

Could you please tell me when this is about to come crashing down so I can get my victim of a ponzi scheme merrit badge?

You can keep on trying but you'll not get your badge. 

[iamtheone]

I agree this sounds phishy but if they were to run with the money like that, they could accept higher deposits, like 100 BTC. Since they can only run with the money once, they better do it with a large amount (i.e. take more than 10 BTC, if they can).

This means the trick must be somewhere else

There are no tricks. For now everytime you bet, we lose, you win. When the confirmation reaches somewhere near 100, by then, you bet, you win, we still win.

[Zillions]

See that's just what I'm not getting is this a method just so you can have a slush fund? IE are you just storing the coins and not doing anything with them? Like having a casino and needing to have enough on hand reserve funds to cover all bets.

Or are you lending them out or using them some "investment" but paying them back regardless how your investment goes?

I've been cycling my last 0.25BTC over and over even once got back a match aparently since I got 0.255BTC.
So if your about to run out of funds can you let us know ahead of time? If i recall correctly you only had 2k to test with have we even hit the halfway point yet?

[Edit]: Doh never went back to the original post aparently yeah you've updated a bunch of info including the buffer to answer my question ahead of time before i even asked it

[iamtheone]

See that's just what I'm not getting is this a method just so you can have a slush fund? IE are you just storing the coins and not doing anything with them? Like having a casino and needing to have enough on hand reserve funds to cover all bets.

Or are you lending them out or using them some "investment" but paying them back regardless how your investment goes?

I've been cycling my last 0.25BTC over and over even once got back a match aparently since I got 0.255BTC.
So if your about to run out of funds can you let us know ahead of time? If i recall correctly you only had 2k to test with have we even hit the halfway point yet?

LOL so very far from halfway. Not even 2% for my total budget. I'm almost so sure this will run until december. Only a long string of unfortunate events will stop this. And if that happens, we will shutdown at the moment we can't pay anymore (after proper announcements of course).

If all goes well, let's see what happens after december.

[iamtheone]

I've been cycling my last 0.25BTC over and over even once got back a match aparently since I got 0.255BTC.

Someone sent an amount less 0.25 about 12 confirmations ago. I hope it's not you. That's considered a donation. If it's you, thanks!

[iamtheone]

I have sent various amounts (including 10BTC) repeatedly (thanks Python for that), and so far the money got returned every time

Care to teach everyone how to automate the betting?

[OneEyed]

I have sent various amounts (including 10BTC) repeatedly (thanks Python for that), and so far the money got returned every time

Care to teach everyone how to automate the betting?

No. I am ok with asserting some facts (my loans have been returned so far with the expected added amount, including several loans of 10 BTC), but I will not help people to send money to an unknown person who refuses to indicate who he represents or to give any guarantee that he won't run with the money (that could be done by escrowing some BTC with a trusted public person).

[iamtheone]

I have sent various amounts (including 10BTC) repeatedly (thanks Python for that), and so far the money got returned every time

Care to teach everyone how to automate the betting?

No. I am ok with asserting some facts (my loans have been returned so far with the expected added amount, including several loans of 10 BTC), but I will not help people to send money to an unknown person who refuses to indicate who he represents or to give any guarantee that he won't run with the money (that could be done by escrowing some BTC with a trusted public person).

Fair enough.

[OneEyed]

I just received a payout after 30 confirmations only. Is that expected?

Edit: never mind, blockchain.info is lagging 7 blocks behind, false alert

[Zillions]

Whoa! Can anyone explain to me what happened in this transacion I only sent 0.25BTC
https://blockchain.info/tx/1188ffc9c821717fcd5dd2e5c71c7e51ea3dd155e0686d11cb566b1b17cb2f90
Looks like HungerCoins just got a spitload of donations.

[JoelKatz]

Whoa! Can anyone explain to me what happened in this transacion I only sent 0.25BTC
https://blockchain.info/tx/1188ffc9c821717fcd5dd2e5c71c7e51ea3dd155e0686d11cb566b1b17cb2f90
Looks like HungerCoins just got a spitload of donations.

It looks like your client was cleverly using a transaction it was making anyway as a free opportunity to consolidate a bunch of small inputs it had lying around into a single, larger output, thus reducing the cost of your future transactions.

[dooglus]

Whoa! Can anyone explain to me what happened in this transacion I only sent 0.25BTC
https://blockchain.info/tx/1188ffc9c821717fcd5dd2e5c71c7e51ea3dd155e0686d11cb566b1b17cb2f90
Looks like HungerCoins just got a spitload of donations.

It looks like your client was cleverly using a transaction it was making anyway as a free opportunity to consolidate a bunch of small inputs it had lying around into a single, larger output, thus reducing the cost of your future transactions.

It also looks like your client paid less than the minimum standard fee.  What client did you use?

[Zillions]

It also looks like your client paid less than the minimum standard fee.  What client did you use?

blockchain.info/wallet

[miln40]

Worked fine for my 1 BTC with transactions on time.

[OneEyed]

Whoa! Can anyone explain to me what happened in this transacion I only sent 0.25BTC
https://blockchain.info/tx/1188ffc9c821717fcd5dd2e5c71c7e51ea3dd155e0686d11cb566b1b17cb2f90
Looks like HungerCoins just got a spitload of donations.

It looks like your client was cleverly using a transaction it was making anyway as a free opportunity to consolidate a bunch of small inputs it had lying around into a single, larger output, thus reducing the cost of your future transactions.

Armory does that too, although if I remember the code correctly it limits itself to 5 inputs. Since the input addresses are all the same, this does not taint any address more than would have been with the original transaction.

[Shermo]

Got my first match, only the last character though so 2% payback

Payment:
https://blockchain.info/tx/a9ec05de08c2748579f98ffb80c34e8527e627191bdb96726b6abdd2cf7e3798

Return:
https://blockchain.info/tx/f65baa369911865d8341f418c13b1fbac737aac99577318cd8e6ada745552a70

[iamtheone]

Got my first match, only the last character though so 2% payback

Payment:
https://blockchain.info/tx/a9ec05de08c2748579f98ffb80c34e8527e627191bdb96726b6abdd2cf7e3798

Return:
https://blockchain.info/tx/f65baa369911865d8341f418c13b1fbac737aac99577318cd8e6ada745552a70

Nice How many times you bet before getting it?

[Shermo]

I'd have to check when I get home, but I think around 12 times? So I guess roughly close to the odds 1/16

I guess you could increase your odds of a match by doing lots of smaller transactions, but then the 0.2% interest is pretty much eaten by transaction fees.

[OneEyed]

I guess you could increase your odds of a match by doing lots of smaller transactions, but then the 0.2% interest is pretty much eaten by transaction fees.

Also, it will be 2% of a smaller amount, and won't change anything on the long term.

[miln40]

Ooooh, it's from Hunger Games, this thing with the odds! It was really ringing a bell in my mind =]

[Shermo]

Also, it will be 2% of a smaller amount, and won't change anything on the long term.

Thats also true, hence why I've just been rolling my small gambling pot through it a couple times a day and eventually hit a match after a few days

[iamtheone]

I guess you could increase your odds of a match by doing lots of smaller transactions, but then the 0.2% interest is pretty much eaten by transaction fees.

Also, it will be 2% of a smaller amount, and won't change anything on the long term.

Actually it will, just a little. Eventually you will hit 3 or 4 digits. It's just a matter of time
And you can use electrum and lessen the transaction fees.

[OneEyed]

I guess you could increase your odds of a match by doing lots of smaller transactions, but then the 0.2% interest is pretty much eaten by transaction fees.

Also, it will be 2% of a smaller amount, and won't change anything on the long term.

Actually it will, just a little. Eventually you will hit 3 or 4 digits. It's just a matter of time

What do you mean? Isn't the expected value this one?

Code:

20 * 1/65536 + 2 * 1/4096 + 0.2 * 1/256 + 0.02 * 1/16 + 0.002 * 61167/65536 = 112767/32768000 ~ 0.3441%

How would splitting into smaller amount help at increasing the expected value?

[Fortega]

Code:

20 * 1/65536 + 2 * 1/4096 + 0.2 * 1/256 + 0.02 * 1/16 + 0.002 * 61167/65536 = 112767/32768000 ~ 0.3441%

Should be

Code:

20 * 1/65536 + 2*15/65536 + 0.2*(256-16)*65536 + ...

[OneEyed]

Code:

20 * 1/65536 + 2 * 1/4096 + 0.2 * 1/256 + 0.02 * 1/16 + 0.002 * 61167/65536 = 112767/32768000 ~ 0.3441%

Should be

Code:

20 * 1/65536 + 2*15/65536 + 0.2*(256-16)*65536 + ...

You're right:

Code:

20 * 1/65536 + 2 * 15/65536 + 0.2 * 240/65536 + 0.02 * 3840/65536 + 0.002 * 61440/65536 = 3721/819200 ~ 0.4542%

Is it better?

[Fortega]

Yup, better
And you are right: splitting it in smaller values does not increase the avg percentage. It only reduces variance a bit.

[iamtheone]

I totally agree. I only meant that even you split into smaller bets, you can mitigate it by using electrum and control transaction fees. I was wrong to imply the odds would increase. It will still be the same. I misunderstood the post.)

[iamtheone]

Status update:

Amount received: 3,347.57 BTC
Amount paid: 3,359.32 BTC
Number of bets paid: 973

These figures does not include the old receiving address.

[OneEyed]

Status update:

Amount received: 3,347.57 BTC
Amount paid: 3,359.32 BTC
Number of bets paid: 973

These figures does not include the old receiving address.

It would be interesting to plot the amount lent against the number of confirmations required. Having to wait for 6+ hours makes it much less exciting than it was at the beginning.

[iamtheone]

Status update:

Amount received: 3,347.57 BTC
Amount paid: 3,359.32 BTC
Number of bets paid: 973

These figures does not include the old receiving address.

It would be interesting to plot the amount lent against the number of confirmations required. Having to wait for 6+ hours makes it much less exciting than it was at the beginning.

The beginning configuration was never a sustainable setting. That was very attractive though. It must be balanced for it to self sustain.

[Gerco]

Can you give an update on the winnings that your service has paid? Have you had any 4 digit matches? 3 digit ones?

How does this service sustain itself? Logic dictates that it cannot. You always pay out more than you receive, where is that money coming from? I can't imagine the HungerCoins Lottery to be that profitable

[OneEyed]

Can you give an update on the winnings that your service has paid? Have you had any 4 digit matches? 3 digit ones?

Note that you can do that analysis yourself by looking at the service address in the blockchain.

[iamtheone]

Only up to 2 digit hits only so far.

[thirdlight]

I'm sure there's an explanation, and no reason to panic, but it seems the last payout was https://blockchain.info/tx-index/24105335/ec51778cfc1e37097a05c28828b8e7e5ec9a9ca118779e7cd87086db7bc2764b in block 198957, and there are "deposits" waiting over 60 confirmations & not yet "returned".

I would suggest not "playing" this game until the situation becomes clear.

[Shermo]

I stopped sending to this when he announced his 199k block competitions, they seemed like a very good get out... I really hope I'm wrong though, it would be nice for something not to be scam for once! But I can't imagine him fronting about 170BTC to top up that jackpot.

[jasinlee]

Agreed, I had one sent in around that time and its up to 83 confirmations. So scam accusations coming up!

[jasinlee]

Scam accusation sent.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109925.msg1195316#msg1195316

[fabrizziop]

lol what did everyone expect?. This seemed like he was slowly building trust to then gtfo with everybody's money.

[jasinlee]

Yeah, remember trust no one. He got away with a pretty crappy haul from the looks of it too.

[miln40]

well, I made about 0.3 BTC from it, so ha! Scammed the scammer Though it's pretty small time for a scam in my opinion. Maybe he jut has problems/gave up on it.

[OneEyed]

Maybe he jut has problems

That was my first thought: we are Sunday, OP may have a life too, and it's not like the scam would be worth it. The idea behind automatic short-term investment through regular sends is an interesting one. If OP is a scammer, then he should wait much longer to gain much more BTC from it

However, I would understand it if it was difficult to pay the announced 199 and 19.9 prices from the 199k game. But declaring a mistake and a default there is different from not returning investments. In this case, a private settlement with the bet winner to pay the prize when profits are high enough could be attempted.

[Zillions]

Aw man another tansacion not fufilled .
https://blockchain.info/tx/934384b6e4a4a7437f913093a3002478073cef93dcf81f2943306f5c11870d92
Just got up and see 96 confirmations. Ugh I shouldda known this gambling was going to bite me eventually.

Hopefully he's just having problems buying bit coins due to the jump in price this weekend.

[OneEyed]

Aw man another tansacion not fufilled .
https://blockchain.info/tx/934384b6e4a4a7437f913093a3002478073cef93dcf81f2943306f5c11870d92
Just got up and see 96 confirmations. Ugh I knew this gambling was going to bite me eventually.

If the software has crashed or is not running, then no transactions are going to go through. This is an all-or-nothing gamble here

[Bitmono]

https://blockchain.info/address/16eH3c4sj3LAHiXnh7CjdSAWaM6BSeoeFC

With a system like this, he managed to get less than 115 bitcoins in total. Surely not the best scammer in the world, if one.

[nimda]

Don't say I didn't warn you

[salfter]

92 confirmations so far, and no payback:

https://blockchain.info/tx/872157ad8d847e30afe5314232614dc423eea734da4b532e34e8888aad1f3855

This was after a few transactions that paid back after fewer than 40 confirmations. Still hoping this will be resolved satisfactorily. Hope this doesn't turn out to have been a scam.

[fabrizziop]

https://blockchain.info/address/16eH3c4sj3LAHiXnh7CjdSAWaM6BSeoeFC

With a system like this, he managed to get less than 115 bitcoins in total. Surely not the best scammer in the world, if one.

115 BTC are about 1350 USD. That's about 5 times the minimum wage in my country for a month, taking in consideration to convert dollars to bolivares a bit below black market rate.

So, if he isn't the best scammer, he could easily live for a month or more with that.

[franky1]

the OP of this thread has run a couple gambling scams. one for the 199k block a few days back

dont bet on him

[FLHippy]