ATTN: BitcoinMAX lenders who wish to give information to pirate

[ErebusBat]

It has become apparent that there is a divide between bitcoinmax lenders who wish payb.tc to pass along their information to pirate as requested, and those who do not.

I do not think that payb.tc should pass along anyones information who does not want it.  On the other hand I think that those of us who wish that the information be passed along should not be denied that right.

Given that I do not think there is a whole lot bad that can happen from pirate having this information I have created a form where you can enter the details that pirate requested and I will share the details with pirate or payb.tc only.

You can access the form here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dERMS0Y3U3dibTlKS3NZR01lVHJjS3c6MQ#gid=0

EDIT: I will share the details with pirate OR payb.tc.

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[ErebusBat]

FAQ
There is no checking of any kind one can easily enter other forum user's name and his own withdrawal address.
True, there is no way I can check for accuracy as I do not have access to the bitcoinmax database

What is the point if the data is not verifiable?
It is simply meant to aggregate a list of lenders who wish to communicate to pirate directly and the size of those accounts.  Obviously pirate would never take this list and just payout what people put

That being said I think most people are honest and it will not be a problem.

I don't want to give you my account details!
That is fine, I can respect that.  However there is very little useful information to *me* on this list, but it is your information and your choice.

[MaddestScientist]

I appreciate your effort 

But it seems there is no checking of any kind. One can easily enter other forum user's name and his own withdrawal address.

It has become apparent that there is a divide between bitcoinmax lenders who wish payb.tc to pass along their information to pirate as requested, and those who do not.

I do not think that payb.tc should pass along anyones information who does not want it.  On the other hand I think that those of us who wish that the information be passed along should not be denied that right.

Given that I do not think there is a whole lot bad that can happen from pirate having this information I have created a form where you can enter the details that pirate requested and I will share the details with pirate only.

You can access the form here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dERMS0Y3U3dibTlKS3NZR01lVHJjS3c6MQ#gid=0

[bitlane]

I plan to sign up for my account of 25682 BTC to be withdrawn using your form. thanks.

FYI..
this will never work. Pirate will only trust the word of an OP in his program.

[ErebusBat]

this will never work. Pirate will only trust the word of an OP in his program.

I have had the same thought too to be honest.  However I am at a loss right as it looks like payb.tc has no intention of forwarding the details.

I do have the benefit of being (semi) active in #btcst since it started so I am not a complete unknown to pirate.  Although that does not stop people from entering crap into the form.

[bitlane]

this will never work. Pirate will only trust the word of an OP in his program.

I have had the same thought too to be honest.  However I am at a loss right as it looks like payb.tc has no intention of forwarding the details.

I do have the benefit of being (semi) active in #btcst since it started so I am not a complete unknown to pirate.  Although that does not stop people from entering crap into the form.

I honestly believe that a unified front would suit us all better at this point.

We need to believe that the OPs will do EVERYTHING that they can to see this through, as they have much at stake as well.

I have already come to terms with the fact that I may never see a single BTC back, so I am hoping to see FELONY charges and not simply a couple class C misdemeanors when this is all said and done.

What Pirate has done is clearly showing itself to be a Crime of Moral Turpitude ...... and a 1st Class Felony Charge would not be out of reach for such.

[ErebusBat]

I honestly believe that a unified front would suit us all better at this point.

I know you do, and I can respect that.  In fact I if my stake were higher I might be more in your court.

However I do feel that users that want to willingly divulge the details to pirate should not be denied that right either.

To be honest what has me worried the most is payb.tc's comment:

also, there's a limit to how much more time i can spend on this without getting paid... i also have to focus on where my next paycheque is going to come from.

And while I understand what/why he would say that, it also says to me "if pirate pays then you will get something, if not then oh well I am not messing with it anymore".

That may not be fair, but irregardless I do feel like I need to do something to help, in the same way you feel that a unified front would be better for us all.  Mutually exclusive ideas unfortunately.

EDIT:  bitlane would you mind quoting my OP?  specificly the part where I mention about only giving information to pirate.  So others know I am not going to sell it, give it to lord micon, whatever?

[Serge]

lol that form is BS

a better secure way of handling it would be:
point to pirate's GPG public key, encrypt your msg with all details and post it here .
it would have been a bit better than trusting yet another party with your info, although all this info is unverifiable without ppt operator's confirm, so realistically it is a useless effort.

[ErebusBat]

lol that form is BS

a better secure way of handling it would be:
point to pirate's GPG public key, encrypt your msg with all details and post it here .
it would have been a bit better than trusting yet another party with your info, although all this info is unverifiable without ppt operator's confirm, so realistically it is a useless effort.

The problem with that is that pirate doesn't have the time to decrypt each response, I am trying to save him time.

As to the 'pirate can not trust it' point:
This is not meant to be an official roster, but more give pirate an idea of who is willing to deal with pirate directly (as he requested).  I have no delusions that pirate will take this roster and start sending bitcoins in the amounts specified on it.  It is only meant to get an idea of the volume.

[Serge]

only very desperate will trust yet another party with their ppt balances and contact details.  realistically it is pointless.

[ErebusBat]

only very desperate will trust yet another party with their ppt balances and contact details.  realistically it is pointless.

If people do not wish to share their information that is fine.  This is in no way compulsory.  In reality there is very little useful information for me that I could use for other purposes.  But I understand that some want anonymity and that is fine too.

[Ilikeham]

payb.tc is handling it to my satisfaction, I don't care what happens next but I'm not voluntarily releasing any information to anyone else.

[bitlane]

only very desperate will trust yet another party with their ppt balances and contact details.  realistically it is pointless.

If people do not wish to share their information that is fine.  This is in no way compulsory.  In reality there is very little useful information for me that I could use for other purposes.  But I understand that some want anonymity and that is fine too.

How about this....

Change your form. Collect DEPOSIT ADDRESSES ONLY. It will keep it anonymous and payb.tc can perhaps aid in filtering if he has time.

No coin totals, no emails, names, forum handles etc.....deposit addresses ONLY. This info can not be used against anyone then.

[ehmdjii]

No coin totals, no emails, names, forum handles etc.....deposit addresses ONLY. This info can not be used against anyone then.

but without coin totals, it can also not be used to process payments.


btw, has payb.tc already stated if or if not he is going to send a list to pirate?

[Ilikeham]

He said he is not. I support that.

[bitlane]

.....just send him all the details, so he dosen't have another excuse to say that all did not comply.

^ The statement above is in contradiction to one of (pirateat40's) Trendon's ORIGINAL RULES WHEN MANY OF OUR ACCOUNTS WERE SETUP.

Loosely quoted (as PIRATE has since deleted all traces of it....)

...if you borrow or invest other user's money into my program, I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT, OR YOU WILL LOSE YOUR ACCOUNT...I ONLY DEAL WITH DIRECT ACCOUNT HOLDERS !

Withholding such information at this point CLEARLY suits the rules and regulations Trendon initially set our accounts up with and the forum administration could very well reach back into page revisions and pull THAT statement out of this were to ever become a legal issue, or his so-called 'grounds' for REFUSING TO RE-PAY LENDERS.

[sadpandatech]

Given that I do not think there is a whole lot bad that can happen from pirate having this information I have created a form where you can enter the details that pirate requested and I will share the details with pirate only.

Umm, no matter whether the PPT's want to hand that info over or not. The info can only be validated as being a legitimate balance if it comes from the records of the PPT OP's.  There is no way to validate some random form, where anyone can put whatever they want into it.

Pirate did not ask for people to send him anything. He asked for the fund managers to send him a detailed list of individual lenders. Bypassing that will have 0 benefit to anyone.

[ErebusBat]

Pirate did not ask for people to send him anything. He asked for the fund managers to send him a detailed list of individual lenders. Bypassing that will have 0 benefit to anyone.

This is true, pirate did *not* ask me to do this.

However as I previously stated, payb.tc has stated that he is not even willing to forward along the details of those of us who want him to. I feel the need to do something.  This information was never meant to be "here pirate here is a 100% account of who wants to talk to you and what you owe them".  Rather it was intended as "here pirate... payb.tc won't play ball but some of us would like to voluntarily give you this information.  Here is an idea of that group, both in number and in amount".

Pirate simply does not have the time to go through every thread, pickout the 'send my info to pirate too' requests.  If/when pirate actually wants to use this information then it  would be a simple matter of coordinating with the user to login to their bitcoinmax account and verify for himself.

I believe pirate wants to offer settlements and this info could be helpful to him.  If you do not want to use the form then you are not obligated to in any way.

[ErebusBat]

He said he is not. I support that.

That is your choice... which I support 100%.  I don't think you should have to be forced divulge your account details if you don't want to.

[imsaguy]

I'd like to make a suggestion.  Have paybtc gpg sign the completed list.  Then pirate knows that info is verified.  Everything else is under paybtc's purview.

[ErebusBat]

I'd like to make a suggestion.  Have paybtc gpg sign the completed list.  Then pirate knows that info is verified.  Everything else is under paybtc's purview.

If he would do this I would love it.  Even if he would just take the user names, confirm them with withdrawal addreses and then export out of his system that would be great.

I would prefer that payb.tc do it, but he is busy and indicated he will not.

[Otoh]

It will be interesting to see what % of Bitcoin Max's 373 users & what % of the total BTC held via him add their info here - if that approx can be made public, if it looks like being more than 50% of either or if pirate requests then I would hope that paybtc would agree to follow the wishes of his clients and to verify the list against his records, I can't see any harm in providing this info to pirate & personally would rather he was given it direct from paybtc but if not then I hope he will at least confirm the info for those that would like it passed on.

Btw - typo on the form: 'balance'

[ErebusBat]

It will be interesting to see what % of Bitcoin Max's 373 users & what % of the total BTC held via him add their info here - if that approx can be made public, if it looks like being more than 50% of either or if pirate requests then I would hope that paybtc would agree to follow the wishes of his clients and to verify the list against his records, I can't see any harm in providing this info to pirate & personally would rather he was given it direct from paybtc but if not then I hope he will at least confirm the info for those that would like it passed on.

I can say that right now very few people have filled out the form, but it is still new.

I would also wish that payb.tc would just add a check to our account and we could go in and opt-in to this.  However given that he is on vacation until sunday and pirates deadline is tomorrow, I am attempting to do something.

[ErebusBat]

IMPORTANT NOTICE

After talking with people here I changed the OP so that I can share the details with pirate OR payb.tc.  If you have already entered your details and do NOT agree to this change then post here or PM me and I will remove them.  (Although I doubt anyone will have a problem, just doing my due diligence.)

[BinaryMage]

Thanks ErebusBat. Who knows if anything will come of this, but I suppose it's worth a try.

[ErebusBat]

Thanks ErebusBat. Who knows if anything will come of this, but I suppose it's worth a try.

Exactly.... I don't know either.  But at least it is something.

[DutchBrat]

Thanks ErebusBat. Who knows if anything will come of this, but I suppose it's worth a try.

Exactly.... I don't know either.  But at least it is something.

Submitted +1

[ErebusBat]

Thanks ErebusBat. Who knows if anything will come of this, but I suppose it's worth a try.

Exactly.... I don't know either.  But at least it is something.

Submitted +1

Received thanks!

[bitsire]

Submitted. Thanks for doing this ErebusBat - I know most likely nothing will come of it but as you said, it is better to at least try.

[ErebusBat]

Submitted. Thanks for doing this ErebusBat - I know most likely nothing will come of it but as you said, it is better to at least try.

No problem... thanks for the support. 

[repentance]

Loosely quoted (as PIRATE has since deleted all traces of it....)

...if you borrow or invest other user's money into my program, I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT, OR YOU WILL LOSE YOUR ACCOUNT...I ONLY DEAL WITH DIRECT ACCOUNT HOLDERS !

Withholding such information at this point CLEARLY suits the rules and regulations Trendon initially set our accounts up with and the forum administration could very well reach back into page revisions and pull THAT statement out of this were to ever become a legal issue, or his so-called 'grounds' for REFUSING TO RE-PAY LENDERS.

In light of that information, his request for information about the lenders now makes sense.  He has no plausible deniability with respect to the pass-throughs because their existence was posted about all over the board and he acknowledged their existence in IRC.  He can't maintain any fiction that he didn't know the people operating the pass-throughs were investing other people's money - he knows very well that the funds aren't owed to the pass-through operators but to their clients and there's plenty of evidence to establish that.

Pass-through operators should obviously consult their own lawyers about this, but I would expect that pirate's lawyers will continue advising him to pay no-one but the actual lenders.

[Minor]

My entry for the quote of the year contest: (my bolding)

That being said I think most people are honest and it will not be a problem.

[ErebusBat]

My entry for the quote of the year contest: (my bolding)

That being said I think most people are honest and it will not be a problem.

I stand behind that quote.  I think most people are, given normal circumstances (not in a prison for example).

[Phraust]

So how did the list turn out?

[ErebusBat]

Helpful

[DutchBrat]

Helpful

Now you sound like pirate: you write something, but it isn't at all clear lol

Care to elaborate

[mrSprinkles]

Helpful

Is there any point adding my details now that it is past Friday, or no?

[ErebusBat]

Helpful

Is there any point adding my details now that it is past Friday, or no?

I can't say for sure, but I don't think it would hurt.