Bitcoin will never again be priced over $300.

[Transidium]

The only real value still built in is that of the electricity and hardware costs.

As global mining operations continue to consolidate, mining efficiency increases. This trend is predictable and irreversible. Therefore that intrinsic "cost of creation" declines at a rate that's also predictable.

Any speculative value that's currently built in is also fated to decline as trading efficiency increases and arbitrage opportunity disappears -- not to mention that the classic early-stage hype bubble has come and gone.

Finally, any commerce/transactional-discount value that's currently built in will decrease as the user marketplace approaches ubiquity and merchant competition dilutes potential margin plays.

... I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Ben

[1714912243]

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[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The only real value still built in is that of the electricity and hardware costs.

As global mining operations continue to consolidate, mining efficiency increases. This trend is predictable and irreversible. Therefore that intrinsic "cost of creation" declines at a rate that's also predictable.

Any speculative value that's currently built in is also fated to decline as trading efficiency increases and arbitrage opportunity disappears -- not to mention that the classic early-stage hype bubble has come and gone.

Finally, any commerce/transactional-discount value that's currently built in will decrease as the user marketplace approaches ubiquity and merchant competition dilutes potential margin plays.

... I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Ben

Same.

BMB

[tokeweed]

[coinableS]

There's a really simple explanation. The cost per coin could easily head north of $300 again when demand out weighs the supply. If there is enough adoption 21 million coins is not enough to go around. Also the currency velocity is a dull argument, bitcoin's only purpose is not for transactions but also a store of wealth and possibly even a reserve currency one day. We are still in a high inflationary area of the new bitcoins per day, but needless to say this drastically decreases over time. It's a digital asset that cannot be faked. If 21 million people were interested in bitcoin the price would easily head north of 4 figures.  There's a lot more to the bitcoin price than just mining costs.  

[Beliathon]

... I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Never is a long time.  The US dollar is an empire-backed currency, Bitcoin is a distributed ledger protocol on the internet. Which of these do you think has the longer lifespan?  

Historically speaking empires have lifespans measured in single digit centuries.

[Transidium]

If there is enough adoption 21 million coins is not enough to go around. ... If 21 million people were interested in bitcoin the price would easily head north of 4 figures.

I strongly disagree, for this simple fact: one satoshi carries exactly the same transactional capability and benefit to consumers/merchants as does one full Bitcoin.
People need to get over the mindset of $1/BTC1, i.e., value being assigned in integer increments.

The current Bitcoin protocol provides for a maximum of 21M BTC x 100M sat = 2.1 QUADRILLION units of fungible supply.

Ben

[j5d]

Send bitcoin to a blackhole wallet no one can access. Now there is less bitcoin in existence. More demand. Price skyrockets.

[Transidium]

Send bitcoin to a blackhole wallet no one can access. Now there is less bitcoin in existence. More demand. Price skyrockets.

The rate at which wallets become inaccessible + the rate at which people intentionally burn BTC, cumulatively weighs as only a tiny fraction of a percent in the Bitcoin value equation.
And no, that rate won't 'spiral exponentially over time' or other nonsense.

Try again.

Ben

[mercistheman]

Thanks for interpreting the impact of every current and future startup... whew, and I was gonna buy more of that shit.

[Transidium]

... I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Never is a long time.  The US dollar is an empire-backed currency, Bitcoin is a distributed ledger protocol on the internet. Which of these do you think has the longer lifespan?  

Historically speaking empires have lifespans measured in single digit centuries.

Fine, I'll narrow the scope of my statement:

"Bitcoin will never again be priced over $300, for so long as the United States Dollar and/or the Euro and/or the Chinese Yuan exist as the world's de facto reserve currencies."

Better?

Ben

[Transidium]

Thanks for interpreting the impact of every current and future startup... whew, and I was gonna buy more of that shit.

This isn't a cogent argument, it's sarcastic fluff.
Please return when you can back up your bullish position with a strong rationale.

Ben

[coinableS]

If there is enough adoption 21 million coins is not enough to go around. ... If 21 million people were interested in bitcoin the price would easily head north of 4 figures.

I strongly disagree, for this simple fact: one satoshi carries exactly the same transactional capability and benefit to consumers/merchants as does one full Bitcoin.
People need to get over the mindset of $1/BTC1, i.e., value being assigned in integer increments.

The current Bitcoin protocol provides for a maximum of 21M BTC x 100M sat = 2.1 QUADRILLION units of fungible supply.

Ben

You're completely ignoring that it requires 100,000,000 satoshi to make up a full bitcoin all of which are limited. If you are ready to "get over the mindset" I will happily trade you 1 satoshi for your one bitcoin right now. I mean it's just a value being assigned by integer increments, right?

[mercistheman]

Alright put your money where your mouth is... escrow 5 coins... 5 years

[Transidium]

You're completely ignoring that it requires 100,000,000 satoshi to make up a full bitcoin all of which are limited. If you are ready to "get over the mindset" I will happily trade you 1 satoshi for your one bitcoin right now. I mean it's just a value being assigned by integer increments, right?

I'm not saying that 1 sat = 1 BTC. I'm saying that 1 sat has the same blockchain/transactional capability as 1 BTC.
This is where the "If 21M people want BTC, we hit the utility ceiling!" argument falls apart.

Are you saying that the potential exists for transactional demand to surpass a supply of 2.1 quadrillion fungible units, when the primary argument for Bitcoin centers around its functional value over otherwise perfectly usable dollars?

Ben

[jonald_fyookball]

$300 is completely arbitrary.  It certainly can go higher or lower.  Price is based on supply and demand...period.

[Transidium]

$300 is completely arbitrary.  It certainly can go higher or lower.  Price is based on supply and demand...period.

You're right, $300 is an arbitrary figure. That figure represents my degree of confidence in the strength of my argument.
If I thought Bitcoin had a bigger "value envelope", I'd have said $400 or $500...

You saying that "supply and demand determines the value of things" is not a valid counter-argument.
Please try again.

Ben

[coinableS]

You're completely ignoring that it requires 100,000,000 satoshi to make up a full bitcoin all of which are limited. If you are ready to "get over the mindset" I will happily trade you 1 satoshi for your one bitcoin right now. I mean it's just a value being assigned by integer increments, right?

I'm not saying that 1 sat = 1 BTC. I'm saying that 1 sat has the same blockchain/transactional capability as 1 BTC.
This is where the "If 21M people want BTC, we hit the utility ceiling!" argument falls apart.

Are you saying that the potential exists for transactional demand to surpass a supply of 2.1 quadrillion fungible units, when the primary argument for Bitcoin centers around its functional value over otherwise perfectly usable dollars?

Ben

The argument does not fall apart. If there is incredible demand and I can only get my hands on 0.001 bitcoin, I can not assign a value to it and send it to a recipient. The value is set elsewhere. If one bitcoin is worth $2 and I need to send $4 to someone then I have to come up with 2 bitcoins, period. I can not send them 0.001 and tell them to treat it as if it's worth more.  You asked for an intelligent discussion then you refuse to acknowledge simple supply and demand rules that have been proven again and again.
I can admit I don't know the future. The price could go to $0 or to $100,000 in 10 years. Stating that the price will never cross (X) is short sighted and foolish.

[Transidium]

Likewise, I could be proven wrong.
Personally I am 100% confident that Bitcoin will never again be priced over $300.
But like anybody who makes a reasoned prediction, there are no guarantees, only degrees of confidence.

Ben

[futureofbitcoin]

The only real value still built in is that of the electricity and hardware costs.

What's the "real value" of a movie? The cost of making the movie?

Your argument seems to imply that a movie would never make any more (or less) than the cost of producing the movie. This is obviously not true.

Just because electricity and hardware costs were involved in producing bitcoins, doesn't mean bitcoins will retain that value, just as putting money to produce a movie doesn't guarantee people will pay to watch it.

Similarly, just as movies might have make more value than was put in when producing it, bitcoin could do the same.

Perhaps at some point in the future, there will be a paradigm shift and people will really value decentralization. At that time, a decentralized cryptocurrency (or a number of them) will be used as the main currencies of trade. Then the cryptocurrencies must have value equivalent of a few trillions of USD current value.

Perhaps bitcoin will gain some sort of collector's value in the future. Or become the main currency used in black markets, which again, would give it extra value.

What you said may sound logical to you, but really it's quite flawed. It may be that bitcoin never goes over $300 USD again. But there are any number of scenarios in which it would go past $300.

[Transidium]

I find no entertainment value in owning or using Bitcoin, certainly not enough to account for any meaningful percentage of its value.

I am willing to pay towards the profit of a movie (its value to its creators exceeding its cost) because I find personal value in consuming it.

Apart from the (highly unlikely) "Bitcoin as a collectors item" thing, I don't see a realistic parallel in your argument...

Ben

[bitllionaire]

Although you see no value 300$ is a very near price, and it will reach it,I could even say this year
If you had said 3000 I may have believed you,but manipulation can take the price to 300

[dimfot]

It's never too late until next halving

[j5d]

Ben,

all one needs to see the price of Bitcoin raise over $300 is any of the unforeseen events that have occurred over the past 5~ years that have caused the price to raise.

- Increased use.
- Buyers seeing an opportunity.
- Economies of nations crumbling, and the ensuing panic in its citizens to convert their currency from one in decline to one they see as more solid, or best allow them to retain control.

Granted, such drastic swings in the price of bitcoin wont be repeated as it has been tempered due to it's greater connection with fiat currencies through exchanges, bank-backed ventures, and greater acceptance by merchants. A swing of $100 is entirely possible though, especially in the face of unforeseen events.

Your confidence in Bitcoin remaining below $300 is based on your knowledge/experience of a system that is as relatively stable as it was when you made the original post. You can make likely predictions as to what will happen tomorrow, but even if you are 99% sure, you still can't be sure. One fly in the ointment is all it takes.

[Chef Ramsay]

Bitcoin on paper is already being purchased for over $300 over on GBTC on OTC and its trading has only been happening for a few days. When these shareholders have been locked in a year ago in the middle of a growing bear market and here we are a year later and the price is where it is, the shareholders are under water and don't want to sell much if anything below a certain price, hence the higher premiums there.

You have lots of large shareholders over there that for the right price (2,3,4,5x the current price) will sell to others that want to gain exposure in this growing market which is on the verge of a trend reversal. Then, they can arb at any of the exchanges and buy 2,3,4,5x as many coins which is freaking huge. If they continue to hold limited shares, then the asks can either give up or go higher. Currently, shares have been sold upwards of $1300 per bitcoin albeit not many, yet. The exchange prices have to come up at some point just by default and we aren't even taking into consideration the Swedish exchange & the Winks' operations which will bring hedge funds, 401Ks and other institutional money into which will create massive demand while the supply has dwindled - and that's before this stuff halves next fall.

If I was you, I'd keep your bet in words and not actually bet any paper on it cause I'm sure there'll be many people wanting to place bets with you and I doubt you can afford to ante up in the escrow kitty.

[futureofbitcoin]

I find no entertainment value in owning or using Bitcoin, certainly not enough to account for any meaningful percentage of its value.

This shows your self-centeredness and lack of foresight. I find no value in having the letters "LV" on a bag. So what? That doesn't mean other people won't. You, I and most people probably can't see value in the vast majority of items produced in the world. Lame toys, little widgets that hardly work. But that's why you are (probably) not a rich and successful entrepreneur.

That you can't see a realistic parallel doesn't mean it doesn't exist; it means you can't see it. Not that there's anything to parallel with anyway, since I gave specific examples of how bitcoin might gain value, not "parallels".

You find personal value in the entertainment from a movie. Some might find value in quick and secure transactions around the globe. If enough do, bitcoin will rise above $300. If you choose to ignore all of the possibilities because you personally don't find it useful, that's your own choice.

I'll be honest, I don't personally find any value in bitcoin either. But I've learned that just because I don't value something, doesn't mean it doesn't have value to other people. I can see that it's possible bitcoin will become valuable to a good number of people. If you don't, whatever. Bitcoin doesn't depend on you to succeed.

Finally, the exact same argument you're using here could've been used before bitcoin reached $1; before bitcoin reached $10; before bitcoin reached $50; or even before bitcoin reached $1000. But it did.

[achow101_alt]

Ben,

all one needs to see the price of Bitcoin raise over $300 is any of the unforeseen events that have occurred over the past 5~ years that have caused the price to raise.

- Increased use.
- Buyers seeing an opportunity.
- Economies of nations crumbling, and the ensuing panic in its citizens to convert their currency from one in decline to one they see as more solid, or best allow them to retain control.

Granted, such drastic swings in the price of bitcoin wont be repeated as it has been tempered due to it's greater connection with fiat currencies through exchanges, bank-backed ventures, and greater acceptance by merchants. A swing of $100 is entirely possible though, especially in the face of unforeseen events.

Your confidence in Bitcoin remaining below $300 is based on your knowledge/experience of a system that is as relatively stable as it was when you made the original post. You can make likely predictions as to what will happen tomorrow, but even if you are 99% sure, you still can't be sure. One fly in the ointment is all it takes.

Someone can also use a bot and manipulate the market, as with the Willy bot in Mt. Gox. This can really push the price upwards, and cause increased media attention and thus increased use and interest from the public.

[numismatist]

Send bitcoin to a blackhole wallet no one can access. Now there is less bitcoin in existence. More demand. Price skyrockets.

Disclosure: Goldfinger fan 

Well actually I do not see a need for a level above $300. For transporting value through the net, actual notation does not matter. Probably if economy size using BTC doubles, the notation will go upwards, maybe two times.

[opossum]

Although you see no value 300$ is a very near price, and it will reach it,I could even say this year
If you had said 3000 I may have believed you,but manipulation can take the price to 300

Listen to the bitllionaire he knows what he is talking about, how can you say it will never get above $300 again lol There are manipulators that will be pushing it back there this month. I will come back here to show you some graphs but you will be on to your next account talking more BS. Have to add what is the big deal even if it never went to $300 not everyone gets a hard on over a few dollars.

[pereira4]

You can find endless threads of a couple years ago explaining with sound logic how expecting BTC above 10 dollar was "unreasoanble".

The thing is we don't fucking know how far Bitcoin will go. If it challenges other payment options like VISA, Mastercard, etc, in the future, the current price is insanely low. Do your math.

[ausbit]

$300 is completely arbitrary.  It certainly can go higher or lower.  Price is based on supply and demand...period.

Exactly, could not have said it better myself.
no one knows what is going to happen with the price from week to week, there is just so much going on in the btc field right now that the price per coin is not as important to some people as it once was.
I think mid/late this year will will start to see big things come from all this money being pumped into different btc ventures, reward halving will also happen in the near future so we could easily see +$300 again.

Can't remember who it was but someone here made a 5 month prediction and was just about spot on, maybe we should call on him and tell us what the price will be like in the coming months,  

Edit: it was fairglu, check out his thread, he was very close.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=839312.0

[freeyourmind]

As others mentioned, $300 is arbitrary, and if it represents your confidence, what impact does your confidence have on the value of bitcoin?

Bitcoin has a value that you're representing in USD.  Do you know the history of the USD and its value over time?  If the USD is inflated each year, if Bitcoin's real value didn't change, it's nominal value in USD would inflate.

When the price of gold goes from $35 to $1200, do you think that the value of gold has increased or that the value of a USD has decreased?

I'm not making a call on the price of Bitcoin because I don't know, and the truth is you also don't know; you just have an opinion.

[tokeweed]

The only real value still built in is that of the electricity and hardware costs.

As global mining operations continue to consolidate, mining efficiency increases. This trend is predictable and irreversible. Therefore that intrinsic "cost of creation" declines at a rate that's also predictable.

Any speculative value that's currently built in is also fated to decline as trading efficiency increases and arbitrage opportunity disappears -- not to mention that the classic early-stage hype bubble has come and gone.

Finally, any commerce/transactional-discount value that's currently built in will decrease as the user marketplace approaches ubiquity and merchant competition dilutes potential margin plays.

... I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Ben

Yeah ok.  But who the fuck cares about its value.  Maybe your 1 bitcoin will be worth 1,000,000 someday though... Maybe.  So fuck you, there are more pressing matters than the value of bitcoin.

And you know what?  I hope bitcoin goes back to 1 dollar so the idiots like you who watch the price all day would leave.

[jonald_fyookball]

$300 is completely arbitrary.  It certainly can go higher or lower.  Price is based on supply and demand...period.

You're right, $300 is an arbitrary figure. That figure represents my degree of confidence in the strength of my argument.
If I thought Bitcoin had a bigger "value envelope", I'd have said $400 or $500...

You saying that "supply and demand determines the value of things" is not a valid counter-argument.
Please try again.

Ben

Your OP basic premise essentially dismisses Bitcoin as a scarce commodity and store of value.  Yet if it were not, why it worth over $200?  The answer goes back to what I said: supply and demand.  Your observations about mining etc are only part of the story with Bitcoin and I really don't see the connection with any given price level.  As you said, it's mostly just your "degree of confidence" you are expressing, while looking for some kind of evidence to support your sentiment.  

You may be entirely right that Bitcoin may stay below $300 for some time,  but your reasons are far from convincing.  The fact of the matter is that no one knows what price will do (in any market).  Least of all, the Bitcoin market. 

[Lauda]

Exactly.
I'm not sure why people are discussing this and trying to look smart? Do you have the required capital to move Bitcoin above $300? I think not.
There are people who can and will.
We've had this in the past too. Bitcoin will never reach $100 again (the drop to around $60 back in the summer of '13); Bitcoin will never reach $200 and such, but then Bitcoin surprised us.
It will surprise us again.

[Ingatqhvq]

The only real value still built in is that of the electricity and hardware costs.

Wrong and ridiculous.
The real value of bitcoin is it is useful and scarce.

[Amph]

Likewise, I could be proven wrong.
Personally I am 100% confident that Bitcoin will never again be priced over $300.
But like anybody who makes a reasoned prediction, there are no guarantees, only degrees of confidence.

Ben

you will be wrong for sure, you forgot that the block halving exist for one reason, also there is no counter-aurgument against a speculation, besides another speculation, speculation are meaningless

everything you say does not prove nothing, they price could rise to 10k this year for all we know...

[bryant.coleman]

I disagree with your assumptions 100%. Mining will not have any effect on the exchange rates. Less than 10% of the Bitcoin currency exchange involves freshly mined coins. Exchange rates are solely driven by the rate of adoption. Right now, the rate of adoption is low, and it is further declining. 

[galbros]

It's never too late until next halving

This was the first thing I thought of.

I also agree with Holliday and Ramsay, there is still a lot of good that bitcoin can accomplish.  We are only starting to see people utilize it for its full potential.  I still believe that adoption can drive price higher.

I will also say that bitcoin has gone far lower than I thought it would go.  If you had posted in Nov. 2013 that price would be sub 250 18 months later I think most everyone would have scoffed.

[hellyeah]

... I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Never is a long time.  The US dollar is an empire-backed currency, Bitcoin is a distributed ledger protocol on the internet. Which of these do you think has the longer lifespan?  

Historically speaking empires have lifespans measured in single digit centuries.

That is so true.
Empires have a tendency for self-destruction caused by greed.
The Great Roman Empire for example.

[Valerian77]

empirically I can say that the Dollar purchasing power will go down with a rate around 90% in 100 Years 

[LFC_Bitcoin]

'The bitcoin price will never again go above 300 USD'



What a ridiculous statement.
I'd understand if you'd said we'll never again reach the ATH (even then you'd be wrong) but 300 USD, come on man.
Look in the mirror and ask yourself do you really think it's imposdible that the price will rise 70 USD?
This is extreme trolling & FUD.

[spartacusrex]

Don't think of it purely in terms of the 'Price'.

Bitcoin's success really has very little to do with that. IMHO.

I 'use' them, for ..err... medical reasons..!

I can transfer value to anyone in the world, without someone telling me whether I'm 'allowed' to or not. None of anyone's business but my own.

The price makes no difference to me. I buy btc - send btc.

I will keep using it. And that's all that matters really.

I think it will be a very long time before the last server is stopped..






 

[Steamingoff]

dudes paypal and bitcoin are becoming partners the value of one btc will skyrocket when that happens ps. its happening later this year 

[sandy47bt]

Bitcoin still has big space to grow
$300 is just small limitation, if we can make bitcoin into mainstream. $300 is nothing

[nizamcc]

OP must be a kid to say such a shit out of his mouth.
Bitcoins are worth much much more than what he thinks.
Bitcoins will be more than $600 till this years' end, MARK MY WORDS.

[Amph]

Don't think of it purely in terms of the 'Price'.

Bitcoin's success really has very little to do with that. IMHO.

I 'use' them, for ..err... medical reasons..!

I can transfer value to anyone in the world, without someone telling me whether I'm 'allowed' to or not. None of anyone's business but my own.

The price makes no difference to me. I buy btc - send btc.

I will keep using it. And that's all that matters really.

I think it will be a very long time before the last server is stopped..

yeah i agree the price will be just a consequence of the succeed of bitcoin, first you sets the foundation then you start to raise the value of your project

as long as the numbers of transactions are growing(and not counting those who are just moving their btc on cold storage) bitcoin is safe from the death

[jdebunt]

I'm pretty sure it will go over US$300 once again in the near future, but i'm not worried if it takes a while

[inca]

Although you see no value 300$ is a very near price, and it will reach it,I could even say this year
If you had said 3000 I may have believed you,but manipulation can take the price to 300

If traders used the same ammunition to buy the price upwards instead of selling it down last night we would be over 300 already.

OP's initial argument totally ignores the basis of what gives bitcoin value. Exchange supply and demand.

Mining costs chase the block reward - which is analogous to the bitcoin price - until equilibrium is reached. However, bitcoin is priced by supply and demand. Should demand shoot up (say the opening of much trumpeted ETF) then exchanges will be drained of the 'float' of coins which sets the price (99.x% of coins are not involved in setting the price).

What happens next is what happened every other time bitcoin bubbled, the price soars. Suddenly mining is wildly profitable again (in spite of the exponentially falling block reward) and sunk mining costs increase to chase that reward.

It is a cycle.

[1Referee]

OP must be a kid to say such a shit out of his mouth.
Bitcoins are worth much much more than what he thinks.
Bitcoins will be more than $600 till this years' end, MARK MY WORDS.

Ok, your words are MARKED.

I only think they are not so meaningful as $600 this year won't happen if you think logically. But I am quite sure it will at least go over $300 this year. My targets are $350 this year.

[Kprawn]

Until the Willy Bot strikes back again 

Question : How many of those 21 000 000 coins are availlable now, and how many of them will be availlable in the open market, as the time goes by? {Subtract all hodl/hoarded coins} 

If everything is purely based on "Supply & Demand" we would see a price skyrocket soon. As we all know, it's not that simple, and we can just guess what the price will be doing.

Until then, chill out and drink some coffee and smoke some weed and eat some pizza. 

[Light]

Lol OP has completely disappeared from this ridiculous thread.

More like he's just away. The argument is actually interesting from a logic perspective - I'm curious to see how anyone properly justifies their side.

It will surprise us again.

Personally I'd like to think it would - but you never know when it comes to the future. Anything can literally happen - just somethings are more likely than others. That being said, I'm inclined to believe that there are 2 major scenarios:

1) Bitcoin loses support over time and dies just like another fad. OP's prediction would make sense in light of a falling demand.
2) Bitcoin achieves more mainstream adoption and attention (alongside merchant acceptance) which would see a rise in demand and subsequently price.

[qwk]

Re: Bitcoin will never reach $20 again

This is why I have liquidated my position in Bitcoins.  There is very little upside going forward.  No forward moves of late have any traction whatsoever and demand continues to lag.  Way too little upside for such a risky proposition so my advice is to move into dollars.  Only a significant change in the economy could alter this forecast.

 

[Lauda]

It will surprise us again.

Personally I'd like to think it would - but you never know when it comes to the future. Anything can literally happen - just somethings are more likely than others. That being said, I'm inclined to believe that there are 2 major scenarios:

1) Bitcoin loses support over time and dies just like another fad. OP's prediction would make sense in light of a falling demand.
2) Bitcoin achieves more mainstream adoption and attention (alongside merchant acceptance) which would see a rise in demand and subsequently price.

I guess deep down we all know that 1) isn't going to happen. Let's take a look at it. Do you know anyone that abandoned Bitcoin after using it? Exclude people that got burned because they thought they are "traders", which they aren't. I don't know anyone.
Individuals have been slowly jumping on the 'train', companies and investors too. I'm saying we give this time.
I've always wondered why people are obsessed with the price? The price does not matter at all, unless you're here for the wrong reasons.
Can you use Bitcoin as a means of payment/transfer of value when 1BTC = $1? Yes.

[8up]

It will surprise us again.

Personally I'd like to think it would - but you never know when it comes to the future. Anything can literally happen - just somethings are more likely than others. That being said, I'm inclined to believe that there are 2 major scenarios:

1) Bitcoin loses support over time and dies just like another fad. OP's prediction would make sense in light of a falling demand.
2) Bitcoin achieves more mainstream adoption and attention (alongside merchant acceptance) which would see a rise in demand and subsequently price.

I guess deep down we all know that 1) isn't going to happen. Let's take a look at it. Do you know anyone that abandoned Bitcoin after using it? Exclude people that got burned because they thought they are "traders", which they aren't. I don't know anyone.
Individuals have been slowly jumping on the 'train', companies and investors too. I'm saying we give this time.
I've always wondered why people are obsessed with the price? The price does not matter at all, unless you're here for the wrong reasons.
Can you use Bitcoin as a means of payment/transfer of value when 1BTC = $1? Yes.

You can not make yourself unthink, what once flashed your brain. It (life) is basically a one-way street. Appreciate change or die.

[ipbo]

Patience is a virtue and time will come soon.

[nizamcc]

OP must be a kid to say such a shit out of his mouth.
Bitcoins are worth much much more than what he thinks.
Bitcoins will be more than $600 till this years' end, MARK MY WORDS.

Ok, your words are MARKED.

I only think they are not so meaningful as $600 this year won't happen if you think logically. But I am quite sure it will at least go over $300 this year. My targets are $350 this year.

Don't worry, surprises happen.
But I am not upto surprises, there are many reasons which will let Bitcoins skyrocket at least once for sure. Still, if you are talking about my logic, I always take it as 1 BTC = 1 BTC, so never had a problem with its price either.

[sgk]

Send bitcoin to a blackhole wallet no one can access. Now there is less bitcoin in existence. More demand. Price skyrockets.

Lower supply shouldn't be the only factor taken into consideration for price speculation.

Just remember: if Bitcoin reaches to a very low supply to public demand and the price reaches an unbearable level for people to afford, people will just move to a more widely available coin (like LTC or maybe some other alt coin popular at that time).

[minerpumpkin]

Until the Willy Bot strikes back again 

Question : How many of those 21 000 000 coins are availlable now, and how many of them will be availlable in the open market, as the time goes by? {Subtract all hodl/hoarded coins} 

If everything is purely based on "Supply & Demand" we would see a price skyrocket soon. As we all know, it's not that simple, and we can just guess what the price will be doing.

Until then, chill out and drink some coffee and smoke some weed and eat some pizza. 

Yeah that's the big question. If 75% of the coins are already lost in some way, we're effectively experiencing quite a strong influx of newly mined coins every day, that push down the price (increased supply). Of course, in the end, the total number of coins is fixed and limited, but right now I believe the influx of new coins is higher than the demand. That is what turning the market around is difficult. We need the halving. We need Wall Street.

[minerpumpkin]

Don't forget that the number of users is growing and the number of coins in circulation may stand still or even decline after the halving.
Private keys are being forgotten, lost and stolen every day so we'll have to somehow share the rest. If only 1% of worlds population start using Bitcoin the price will be far above $300.

Yeah, but it is very difficult to push Bitcoin's adoption to those levels, actually! 1% of the population is quite a lot! It really is a good thing the halving isn't that far away anymore, but right now we're being showered in coins!

[randy8777]

it's not that hard to go over $300 but definitely not in the comming months. maybe end of the year or beginning next year. long term trend is up. short term doesn't look so bright.

[g-unit]

This thread is more bullshit than I can handle. Never over 300 again? Lmao. There is one thing I've noticed about negative people on here: they either lost a lot of money (realized losses), invested more than they could afford, or didn't make a quick buck like they thought they would.

Then again...who cares what the price is if you're investing a little bit every week for the longterm? Price has failed to retest 200 since the 160 bottom in January that was 4 months ago. That fact alone is a good sign. The longer we stay above 200 or anywhere above 160 for that matter just solidifies and reinforces that we are in an upward trend now.

[RodeoX]

Mine are $1500 each. Discussion over?

[ThatDGuy]

Yes it will

[D05GTO]

Mine are $1500 each. Discussion over?

Man yours are really cheap.  I'll take $2000 for 1 of mine the rest will cost much more.

[spazzdla]

Mine are $1500 each. Discussion over?

Man yours are really cheap.  I'll take $2000 for 1 of mine the rest will cost much more.

This.

[JimboToronto]

I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Mine are $1500 each. Discussion over?

Ka-ching. We've got a winner.

Sorry Ben, try again.

[lexuz]

it's not that hard to go over $300 but definitely not in the comming months. maybe end of the year or beginning next year. long term trend is up. short term doesn't look so bright.

Im not sure end of year price will go over $300. When price drop its like instanly but when price want up its hard. You see 3 month price stable on range 200-240

[Chef Ramsay]

it's not that hard to go over $300 but definitely not in the comming months. maybe end of the year or beginning next year. long term trend is up. short term doesn't look so bright.

Im not sure end of year price will go over $300. When price drop its like instanly but when price want up its hard. You see 3 month price stable on range 200-240

I'm wagering we'll see some interesting action sometime this summer and/or the fall once the Winks get their clearance from the SEC. There's so much potential for legions of demand entering the market coming up here. It'll be the gift that keeps on giving.

[Natalia_AnatolioPAMM]

Yes it will

no,it will not!

[Steamingoff]

THATS WHAT I SEE IN THIS FORM

[BTCtrader71]

If there is enough adoption 21 million coins is not enough to go around. ... If 21 million people were interested in bitcoin the price would easily head north of 4 figures.

I strongly disagree, for this simple fact: one satoshi carries exactly the same transactional capability and benefit to consumers/merchants as does one full Bitcoin.
People need to get over the mindset of $1/BTC1, i.e., value being assigned in integer increments.

The current Bitcoin protocol provides for a maximum of 21M BTC x 100M sat = 2.1 QUADRILLION units of fungible supply.

Ben

The argument Transidium puts forth has been made before but it does not hold up to scrutiny [1]. One could attempt the same argument with gold that he is making with bitcoin, and the argument falls apart in both instances, and for the same reasons. The (invalid) argument goes like this: the smallest unit of gold is one gold atom; the number of gold atoms that have been mined is ONE CADJILLABILLION (actually I don't know, but it's more than the number of Satoshis that will ever exist); therefore, the supply of gold is effectively limitless (in terms of number of atoms); and this places some sort of ceiling on the value of gold.

One needs to realize that there is a difference between these two things:
1) the total supply of something
and
2) the number of indivisible units of that something.
The error in Transidium's logic is that he does not appreciate the difference between 1) and 2)

Thought experiment: suppose the US Mint decided tomorrow to start minting coins worth one-tenth of a penny. Will this cause the purchasing power of the dollar to fall, because there are more smallest-units in the world? (Answer: no.) Likewise: if the core developers and the community at large decided tomorrow that one bitcoin could be divided into a few extra decimal places, would that cause the value of one bitcoin to fall? (Answer: no)

~ btcT

[1] unless he is making the argument in the context of some specific implementation of the concept of colored coins, where 1 satoshi could in principle be used to label something of an arbitrarily high value; but I don't think that is the argument he is putting forth.

[nicked]

If there is enough adoption 21 million coins is not enough to go around. ... If 21 million people were interested in bitcoin the price would easily head north of 4 figures.

I strongly disagree, for this simple fact: one satoshi carries exactly the same transactional capability and benefit to consumers/merchants as does one full Bitcoin.
People need to get over the mindset of $1/BTC1, i.e., value being assigned in integer increments.

The current Bitcoin protocol provides for a maximum of 21M BTC x 100M sat = 2.1 QUADRILLION units of fungible supply.

Ben

If I'm not mistaken Ben, you just proved yourself wrong with that statement.

[fkvidar]

This prolonged drop is going to cause a lot of investors to secure their profits, so yes, we will see a return to $300 or $400 easily.

[tarzan2]

all this financial talk is wonderful and all, but your missing a fundamental point.. maybe not all of you but the ones i looked at..

bitcoin is uniquely positioned as the foremost cryptocurrency-the very notion is a novel invention that could, and to some extent is, revolutionizing the way money is exchanged.. i dont care how much miners end up costing the few.. i for one have free power-at least for me it is- and so i will mine till my miners fall to pieces or 21mil is reached.. whichever comes first. there are some that place value beyond speculation-like myself i see bitcoin's value as a vehicle of greater than mere financial efficacy. what about the social and political influences that bitcoin provides for?
one could theoretically fund a revolution with bitcoin.. think about that

[Cconvert2G36]

all this financial talk is wonderful and all, but your missing a fundamental point.. maybe not all of you but the ones i looked at..

bitcoin is uniquely positioned as the foremost cryptocurrency-the very notion is a novel invention that could, and to some extent is, revolutionizing the way money is exchanged.. i dont care how much miners end up costing the few.. i for one have free power-at least for me it is- and so i will mine till my miners fall to pieces or 21mil is reached.. whichever comes first. there are some that place value beyond speculation-like myself i see bitcoin's value as a vehicle of greater than mere financial efficacy. what about the social and political influences that bitcoin provides for?
one could theoretically fund a revolution with bitcoin.. think about that

The electric utility thanks you, your landlord (mom), doesn't.

[tarzan2]

hmm yes my mom huh.. move along plz your just wrong

[tarzan2]

though at times she can be a generous lady, especially if i eat my veggies and dont wet the bed.. i dont think she'd like to pay for 8kwh of electricity running 24/7 tho

[(Lithium)]

can someone un dig threads saying bitcoin never will be priced over $2 again or something to show how ridiculous this thread will be in the future?

[Chef Ramsay]

Ya, the OP is taking a major chance on this thread by making such an ignorant assumption at this point. I can't comprehend anyone that thinks that bitcoin stops under the 300 mark. This height will melt soon.

[tarzan2]

can someone un dig threads saying bitcoin never will be priced over $2 again or something to show how ridiculous this thread will be in the future?

thanks goodness. i was worried we had been overrun by financial fortunetellers.. have some hope people.. not everything the wall street journal says is real. in fact im inclined to think its all fake, but i am no investment banker so i dont know how to capitalize on the arbitrary fluctuations and downright crashes of the fiat economy that seem to propel these guys beyond the stratosphere

[oser41eric]

Ya, the OP is taking a major chance on this thread by making such an ignorant assumption at this point. I can't comprehend anyone that thinks that bitcoin stops under the 300 mark. This height will melt soon.

I am with you here, all you have to do is use one of many brain cells we should all have. Manipulators are sitting with shed loads of coin and dollars to pump it, thinking they are just going to retire and leave it under $300 is crazy. Have to add I am liking these 220-300 rides on the backs of the hump backs. $300 by the end of the month but probably sooner than that.

[tarzan2]

Ya, the OP is taking a major chance on this thread by making such an ignorant assumption at this point. I can't comprehend anyone that thinks that bitcoin stops under the 300 mark. This height will melt soon.

I am with you here, all you have to do is use one of many brain cells we should all have. Manipulators are sitting with shed loads of coin and dollars to pump it, thinking they are just going to retire and leave it under $300 is crazy. Have to add I am liking these 220-300 rides on the backs of the hump backs. $300 by the end of the month but probably sooner than that.

i for one would love to see you right on this.. but i am curious what you base your claim on?

[oser41eric]

Ya, the OP is taking a major chance on this thread by making such an ignorant assumption at this point. I can't comprehend anyone that thinks that bitcoin stops under the 300 mark. This height will melt soon.

I am with you here, all you have to do is use one of many brain cells we should all have. Manipulators are sitting with shed loads of coin and dollars to pump it, thinking they are just going to retire and leave it under $300 is crazy. Have to add I am liking these 220-300 rides on the backs of the hump backs. $300 by the end of the month but probably sooner than that.

i for one would love to see you right on this.. but i am curious what you base your claim on?

My claim is based on DMT like the OPs but I see things and people I have never seen before and they told me to look out because by the end of the month, it will be $300 again. On a half serious note there is to much money wrapped up from whales for them to walk away from the bitcoin goldmine.

[tarzan2]

hmm only thing dmt ever revealed to me is the dwarf miners that live under my bed that take whacks at my bitcoin minerz out of jealousy.. they can only mine gold.. oh and jebus.. he lives in the fronty part of my skull and likes to come out sometimes.. he talks to his papa and reveals the truth of everything and stuff but its all very dull i dont follow much of it.. hes kinda dweeb tho and talks too much

which is why i prefer crack these days.. cleaner and better smoke for u most def

[Cconvert2G36]

Epic, just... epic.

[AcoinL.L.C]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

[tarzan2]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

You present a sound argument but the illegal goods aspect is also illegal services and which would incorporate lots of gray area type markets such like u say, I dont expect bitcoin to become the next paypal, but perhaps in a tier just below for anything not 100% white. I'm thinking even craigslist type exchanges bitcoin could very well become the standard of

At least at the moment there aren't many strong alternatives and bitcoin does have a certain ease of use lacking in other payment forms.. For one no account - wallet takes 30 sec to generate.. Also on the fly payments.. The confirmation thing I have noticed is highly dependent on the wallet used to send. I have been using mycellium lately and its almost 100% of the time 10 min per conformation

[pleaseexplain]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

I see bitcoin being a bit like electric bicycles (ebikes).

There are already lots of forms of transportation and most work fine for those that prefer each type for their particular needs. I see cars as being visa etc. Ebikes will fill a niche but that niche can be quite large worldwide.
Remember bitcoin is not and never set out to offer chargebacks. agree that is a drawback if competing for the car market but not for the ebike market which bitcoin is.

Bitcoin is ideal for non chargeback situations eg sending money to friends, relatives.

Agree it is cumbersome but some of that will improve when regulated exchanges etc are set up. also just like ebikes - they are what they are eg if it rains you get wet. If you want to stay dry use a car. It stops "mass" adoption but people that use visa also want the credit that goes with it so bitcoin was never going to appeal to that part of the visa market ie be "mass adopted".

Will it go to the moon? better to think it already has - I happen to think bitcoins true price is about $60 but considering it was $2 only a few years back it has already gone to the moon if you believed in it back then. I also think it is still on a strong growth as it has not even begun to fill its niche. So i see it going above $500 in a few years if not sooner. it may never be worth $10,000 but nobody involved with bitcoin promised that. they did not promise $250 but that is where we are.



 

 

[Amph]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

this is exactly what bitcoin is doing right now, which doesn't means that it will be the trend of its future

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

the non speculators base is growing it just need time, the real bitcoin run started in 2013 essentially

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

volatility is only a problem related to the current market cap, will be a non issue in the future, if that rise to a certain level(much higher than the one of the 1200 peak)

6 confirmations aren't a real issue you could accept pending transactions without problem(those one 1 are exception and again it is because of the price not being stable so the diff swings too much, it all come from there)

the irreversible transaction is actually a good thing, how many are evading from paypal because of that...

for you last sentence i would not say illegal goods, but i would say; at doing thing more anonymously

[Benjig]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

I see bitcoin being a bit like electric bicycles (ebikes).

There are already lots of forms of transportation and most work fine for those that prefer each type for their particular needs. I see cars as being visa etc. Ebikes will fill a niche but that niche can be quite large worldwide.
Remember bitcoin is not and never set out to offer chargebacks. agree that is a drawback if competing for the car market but not for the ebike market which bitcoin is.

Bitcoin is ideal for non chargeback situations eg sending money to friends, relatives.

Agree it is cumbersome but some of that will improve when regulated exchanges etc are set up. also just like ebikes - they are what they are eg if it rains you get wet. If you want to stay dry use a car. It stops "mass" adoption but people that use visa also want the credit that goes with it so bitcoin was never going to appeal to that part of the visa market ie be "mass adopted".

Will it go to the moon? better to think it already has - I happen to think bitcoins true price is about $60 but considering it was $2 only a few years back it has already gone to the moon if you believed in it back then. I also think it is still on a strong growth as it has not even begun to fill its niche. So i see it going above $500 in a few years if not sooner. it may never be worth $10,000 but nobody involved with bitcoin promised that. they did not promise $250 but that is where we are.



 

 

Bitcoin is the next gold value, as you can see the gold is just dissapearing from all the places some countries had it hidden, i think at some point after the economic revolution, Bitcoin will start be using as a real store of value.. and those bears will regret how they sold.

[tarzan2]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

I see bitcoin being a bit like electric bicycles (ebikes).

There are already lots of forms of transportation and most work fine for those that prefer each type for their particular needs. I see cars as being visa etc. Ebikes will fill a niche but that niche can be quite large worldwide.
Remember bitcoin is not and never set out to offer chargebacks. agree that is a drawback if competing for the car market but not for the ebike market which bitcoin is.

Bitcoin is ideal for non chargeback situations eg sending money to friends, relatives.

Agree it is cumbersome but some of that will improve when regulated exchanges etc are set up. also just like ebikes - they are what they are eg if it rains you get wet. If you want to stay dry use a car. It stops "mass" adoption but people that use visa also want the credit that goes with it so bitcoin was never going to appeal to that part of the visa market ie be "mass adopted".

Will it go to the moon? better to think it already has - I happen to think bitcoins true price is about $60 but considering it was $2 only a few years back it has already gone to the moon if you believed in it back then. I also think it is still on a strong growth as it has not even begun to fill its niche. So i see it going above $500 in a few years if not sooner. it may never be worth $10,000 but nobody involved with bitcoin promised that. they did not promise $250 but that is where we are.



 

 

Bitcoin is the next gold value, as you can see the gold is just dissapearing from all the places some countries had it hidden, i think at some point after the economic revolution, Bitcoin will start be using as a real store of value.. and those bears will regret how they sold.

hey could you help me find one of these economic revolutions? i have been looking for one for a while now.. i dont think they make them anymore.. but if you want to start one im sure it would become popular quick. but im also sure your life expectancy, as the terrorist flavor of the day, would not be a taste u would enjoy.. the established economic order is so entrenched in the world live i think it would take some serious flavors like fuckin rocky road to take that shit down

[Benjig]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

I see bitcoin being a bit like electric bicycles (ebikes).

There are already lots of forms of transportation and most work fine for those that prefer each type for their particular needs. I see cars as being visa etc. Ebikes will fill a niche but that niche can be quite large worldwide.
Remember bitcoin is not and never set out to offer chargebacks. agree that is a drawback if competing for the car market but not for the ebike market which bitcoin is.

Bitcoin is ideal for non chargeback situations eg sending money to friends, relatives.

Agree it is cumbersome but some of that will improve when regulated exchanges etc are set up. also just like ebikes - they are what they are eg if it rains you get wet. If you want to stay dry use a car. It stops "mass" adoption but people that use visa also want the credit that goes with it so bitcoin was never going to appeal to that part of the visa market ie be "mass adopted".

Will it go to the moon? better to think it already has - I happen to think bitcoins true price is about $60 but considering it was $2 only a few years back it has already gone to the moon if you believed in it back then. I also think it is still on a strong growth as it has not even begun to fill its niche. So i see it going above $500 in a few years if not sooner. it may never be worth $10,000 but nobody involved with bitcoin promised that. they did not promise $250 but that is where we are.



 

 

Bitcoin is the next gold value, as you can see the gold is just dissapearing from all the places some countries had it hidden, i think at some point after the economic revolution, Bitcoin will start be using as a real store of value.. and those bears will regret how they sold.

hey could you help me find one of these economic revolutions? i have been looking for one for a while now.. i dont think they make them anymore.. but if you want to start one im sure it would become popular quick. but im also sure your life expectancy, as the terrorist flavor of the day, would not be a taste u would enjoy.. the established economic order is so entrenched in the world live i think it would take some serious flavors like fuckin rocky road to take that shit down

Well just leave them as a collateral investment "waiting to explode" , but don't lose confidence on them, cause you will feel better if you lost some usd from 5, 10 or idk the amount of bitcoins you can have, than if it explodes with you having many btcs in the past but at that moment no one.

Also, those "revolutions" are just ahead the corner, you are just too adapted to your familiar environment and you cant see the evidence. I bet no one believed around 1938 the reality they were going to had just two or 3 years later..  the big changes will not make any warnings until you have them right in front of you. And for me its been a long time since all the people started complaining about the USD, EURO, economy, and all related.

[dropt]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

Point 1: people said it would never reach dollar parity.  People said it would never break the $32 ATH bubble.  People said it would never be $100.  People said it would never breach the $266 ATH again.  People said it would never hit $1000.  People say a lot of near sighted garbage, just like you're doing now.

Point 2: "Other payment methods" is a multi Billion dollar industry.

Point 3: give it time.  Most new tech, especially at a protocol level is raw.  I don't see you using a text browser, or using a dialup program to start your inet connection..

Point 4: several hours for 6 conf?  Just... No.

Point 5: No charge backs.  Has its pros and con's depending on views

Point 6: illegal goods?  Again, a multi billion dollar industry.

There is IMO so much untapped potential here that your complaints remind me of a child whining that he didn't get the chocolate bar he saw at the check out stand while grocery shopping with his parents.

[GÜNther.Danish]

there is nothing absolute in the world, even $500 is still possible

[Feri22]

I find no entertainment value in owning or using Bitcoin, certainly not enough to account for any meaningful percentage of its value.

I am willing to pay towards the profit of a movie (its value to its creators exceeding its cost) because I find personal value in consuming it.

Apart from the (highly unlikely) "Bitcoin as a collectors item" thing, I don't see a realistic parallel in your argument...

Ben

Then why are you here? I really don't get people like you, you don't like something and you have unbeliavable need to tell it to everyoene...so? Nobody gives a shit what you think, bitcoin is about to take off sooner or later either you like it or not...It's always the same again and again...and again...buy now and have patience or be even more butthurted that you missed it...AGAIN...Good luck buying coin at 10 000 USD rate

[Whitehouse]

I find no entertainment value in owning or using Bitcoin, certainly not enough to account for any meaningful percentage of its value.

I am willing to pay towards the profit of a movie (its value to its creators exceeding its cost) because I find personal value in consuming it.

Apart from the (highly unlikely) "Bitcoin as a collectors item" thing, I don't see a realistic parallel in your argument...

Ben

Then why are you here? I really don't get people like you, you don't like something and you have unbeliavable need to tell it to everyoene...so? Nobody gives a shit what you think, bitcoin is about to take off sooner or later either you like it or not...It's always the same again and again...and again...buy now and have patience or be even more butthurted that you missed it...AGAIN...Good luck buying coin at 10 000 USD rate

They're called trolls and trying to stoke up responses is their goal. Just think about it, if you had little to no interest in bitcoin you wouldn't be here but they usually either do have bitcoin and like to troll or have none or lost it or their money so vent their frustrations this way. Best solution is to just ignore them but most people can't resists feeding them so they stick around until they get bored.

[randy8777]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

buying bitcoin here is very easy. i can buy bitcoins and receive them in my pc wallet within 60 seconds. fee's are only € 0.50 per transaction for buying.

[afbitcoins]

I tried to pay for a VPS using mastercard the other day however my bank saw fit to block the payment going through, not only that they then blocked my account for suspicious activity and the fraud dept phoned me the next day. They even started asking for my details my date of birth etc even though they initiated the call which I of course refused to give them. Eventually after I called them explaind yes it was me trying to do the transaction, it wasn't suspicious etc they removed the block.

The fun part is after all that I noticed paying with bitcoin was an option for that VPS. I credited the account with appropriate amount of bitcoin and it went through virtually straight away. No hassle. No bank getting in the middle blocking what I want to do.

Point of all that is that as a payment mechanism bitcoin was far easier for me.

This doesn't even go into the value bitcoin gets from its other monetary properties. The thing I like best is that the quantity is not controlled by some centralised authority eg like XRP or like fiat dollars as a store of value bitcoin could turn out to be better than gold

  

[Whitehouse]

I tried to pay for a VPS using mastercard the other day however my bank saw fit to block the payment going through, not only that they then blocked my account for suspicious activity and the fraud dept phoned me the next day. They even started asking for my details my date of birth etc even though they initiated the call which I of course refused to give them. Eventually after I called them explaind yes it was me trying to do the transaction, it wasn't suspicious etc they removed the block.

The fun part is after all that I noticed paying with bitcoin was an option for that VPS. I credited the account with appropriate amount of bitcoin and it went through virtually straight away. No hassle. No bank getting in the middle blocking what I want to do.

Point of all that is that as a payment mechanism bitcoin was far easier for me.

This doesn't even go into the value bitcoin gets from its other monetary properties. The thing I like best is that the quantity is not controlled by some centralised authority eg like XRP or like fiat dollars as a store of value bitcoin could turn out to be better than gold

  

That phone call and block is just a security measure by your card company and one that bitcoin doesn't have. If someone made an unauthorized purchase with your card I'm sure you'd be pretty appreciative of the safety systens and even if it went through you'd be able to get your money back eventually. If the same happens with bitcoin you're pretty much screwed so both systems have their positives and negatives and drawbacks.

[AcoinL.L.C]

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc). The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods.

Point 1: people said it would never reach dollar parity.  People said it would never break the $32 ATH bubble.  People said it would never be $100.  People said it would never breach the $266 ATH again.  People said it would never hit $1000.  People say a lot of near sighted garbage, just like you're doing now.

Point 2: "Other payment methods" is a multi Billion dollar industry.

Point 3: give it time.  Most new tech, especially at a protocol level is raw.  I don't see you using a text browser, or using a dialup program to start your inet connection..

Point 4: several hours for 6 conf?  Just... No.

Point 5: No charge backs.  Has its pros and con's depending on views

Point 6: illegal goods?  Again, a multi billion dollar industry.

There is IMO so much untapped potential here that your complaints remind me of a child whining that he didn't get the chocolate bar he saw at the check out stand while grocery shopping with his parents.

Your points smell like all the other people hoping to get rich quick off of Bitcoin. Yes, the other methods are a multi billion dollar industry, what does that have to do with anything? They are much more efficient and scalable than Bitcoin. Did you know that Visa alone (forget other credit card companies) handles as many transactions in 3 minutes as all the Bitcoin transactions in a day? The blockchain would collapse if it were put to any real use.

Yes, several hours for 6 confirmations. I use MultiBit as my wallet, and it takes ages to pay for anything. People will not want to wait even 5 minutes to pay for anything in a physical location.

Chargebacks is a huge con for consumers. This is actually one of the reasons Bitcoin will never get even 5% of the worlds population to use it.

Illegal goods is a billion dollar industry. It just happens to be Bitcoins main use, whereas its not the dollars.

[Razick]

The only real value still built in is that of the electricity and hardware costs.

As global mining operations continue to consolidate, mining efficiency increases. This trend is predictable and irreversible. Therefore that intrinsic "cost of creation" declines at a rate that's also predictable.

Any speculative value that's currently built in is also fated to decline as trading efficiency increases and arbitrage opportunity disappears -- not to mention that the classic early-stage hype bubble has come and gone.

Finally, any commerce/transactional-discount value that's currently built in will decrease as the user marketplace approaches ubiquity and merchant competition dilutes potential margin plays.

... I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Ben

My only comment is that cost of production has very little to do with Bitcoin's value.

[bassclef]

The only real value still built in is that of the electricity and hardware costs.

As global mining operations continue to consolidate, mining efficiency increases. This trend is predictable and irreversible. Therefore that intrinsic "cost of creation" declines at a rate that's also predictable.

Any speculative value that's currently built in is also fated to decline as trading efficiency increases and arbitrage opportunity disappears -- not to mention that the classic early-stage hype bubble has come and gone.

Finally, any commerce/transactional-discount value that's currently built in will decrease as the user marketplace approaches ubiquity and merchant competition dilutes potential margin plays.

... I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Ben

All these reasons, if applicable, have been priced in already. The market price for any commodity is based on speculative value, that is supply and demand on the exchanges. Add in human psychology and you get the reason for trends and bubbles.

It's amazing how super smart guys can think of a dozen fundamental reasons why such and such will happen, yet fail to do even the slightest research on how markets work. In light of that, Bitcoin's current low price is no great mystery.

[dropt]

Your points smell like all the other people hoping to get rich quick off of Bitcoin.

Implying that I didn't get "rich quick" off of Bitcoin.

Yes, the other methods are a multi billion dollar industry, what does that have to do with anything? They are much more efficient and scalable than Bitcoin. Did you know that Visa alone (forget other credit card companies) handles as many transactions in 3 minutes as all the Bitcoin transactions in a day? The blockchain would collapse if it were put to any real use.

You said people need to start comparing it to other payment methods, which is a multi-billion dollar industry.  If it can compete, and it does, you can ascertain that it has the potential to be a player in said multi-billion dollar industry.

VISA was founded in 1958.  Do you really think they were processing 2,000 transactions per second in 1964?  Give your head a shake.  Let's see how the two compare taking a snapshot of Visa today, and Bitcoin in the year 2057.

Yes, several hours for 6 confirmations. I use MultiBit as my wallet, and it takes ages to pay for anything. People will not want to wait even 5 minutes to pay for anything in a physical location.

Several means >2.  Considering that there should be ~6 blocks per hour, yet for the better part of the last year the difficulty has been rising means you're wrong.  We know you're wrong because we have the empirical evidence that says so.

So you chose to use a client that doesn't work worth a shit and somehow that's indicative of the market as a whole?  SMH.   And surely you've never actually tried to use BTC to pay for anything, because if you had you'd know that it happens near instantaneously.  In the physical world I can pay for something with BTC just as fast as I can with a card.  At least with BTC with merchant knows with a reasonable margin of certainty that they aren't going to be ripped off within 10 minutes instead of finding out 30 days later someone charged back that purchase.  But IMO Bitcoin was never really intended to fulfill the role of in person purchases, and in the online world I can pay with BTC much faster than I can with a CC, and that is fact.

Chargebacks is a huge con for consumers. This is actually one of the reasons Bitcoin will never get even 5% of the worlds population to use it.

Maybe, maybe not.  How many times have you actually had to charge back something?  People like to make it out as if this is some sort of deal breaker, but in my entire life, I've only had to initiate a chargeback once, and I probably didn't even have to do that if I was patient enough for the merchant in my case to take care of their business.  I'll concede that having the option of chargeback is nice, but for what I'd consider most cases, it's a non-issue.

Illegal goods is a billion dollar industry. It just happens to be Bitcoins main use, whereas its not the dollars.

And what's your point?  If it can't buy drugs, porn, and facilitate gambling, it's not money.  You might as well just claim that all Bitcoin users are criminals just because Roger Ver is a felon and is a well known pro-bitcoin spokesman.

[nachoig]

The issue is we have a different reason here. The 300 USD was reached without the normal conditions due to fraudulent activity on an exchange. If we go back to 300 USD, it will be because of Bitcoin's growing, not because of a fraud.

This is why I think the crash in the last January was the best Bitcoin price crash. It bringed the price to the pre-Willy days after one year. Now the market can do its own work.

Bitcoin won't break $500 a coin, likely will sit around the ~$250 range with occasional jumps over $300 and below $200.

I don't know about $ 500, the issue in this moment is about going to $ 300 or sub-200. But we're still at $ 200 people, deal with it!!!!!!  

People need to start comparing Bitcoin to other payment methods, and they will clearly see why Bitcoin will never have enough demand to "go to the moon," most of Bitcoin's current users are speculators that have no clue what they are talking about.

Well, this section is full of nonsense about the price. But I think it doesn't represent most of Bitcoin users.

Bitcoin's biggest issue is that is not consumer friendly: Buying Bitcoin is time consuming (and costly when you figure in fees associated with acquiring Bitcoin + risk of volatility), very slow (to reach 6 confirmations takes several hours... lately its been taking ~1 hour to get even a single confirmation), no ability to chargeback (this is NOT a plus), and other hassles (security issues, learning curve etc).

Bitcoin is much more transparent about these issues than the other means of payment. Other means of payment have problems about confirmation times, fees, chargebacks and security issues too. You just don't see, but the issues are here.

The only thing Bitcoin is better than using the dollar for is to purchase illegal goods

Psysical dollar or eletronic dollar?

Chargebacks is a huge con for consumers. This is actually one of the reasons Bitcoin will never get even 5% of the worlds population to use it.

People used physical cash during milleniuns and didn't see the lack of chargeback as a issue.

[Chef Ramsay]

Lot's of educated, intelligent posters chiming in in the latter parts of this thread which I figured would happen sooner as this one became a nuisance and an insult to visionaries of sound and like minds. It's great when the knowledgeable come back into an environment and lend a hand to the education aspect. Bullish times of sorts ahead and perhaps more, indeed.