It's Happening .... The secrets of 21 inc revealed, and its what we hoped for.

[BitUsher]

Decentralization of mining.

Mass adoption with subsidized or free consumable items with multiple products to insure at least one is successful.

Distribution of bitcoin assets with shared profits between the consumer and the manufacturer in a self sustaining business strategy.

116 million in venture capital to insure they can fund development and manufacturing of low cost ASIC appliances.

The core business plan it turns out will be embedding ASIC bitcoin mining chips into everyday devices like USB battery chargers, routers, printers, gaming consoles, set-top boxes and — the piece de resistance — chipsets to be used by Internet of Stuff devices.

According to our knowledgable sources, 21 Inc plans to “onboard” customers by giving many of these devices away for free,

This is simply a blindingly good business plan, exotically gorgeous in fact. For of course the cost of the electricity required to mine for bitcoin is very much larger than that 25 per cent of the value of the bitcoin that we get to keep.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/06/bubblicious_bitcoin_bonkers_business_bods/

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/

[Klestin]

This is simply a blindingly good business plan, exotically gorgeous in fact. For of course the cost of the electricity required to mine for bitcoin is very much larger than that 25 per cent of the value of the bitcoin that we get to keep.

For anyone who has to pay for their electricity, this is a horrid idea.  If the heat generated from the bitcoin miner isn't directly beneficial to the user, then the cost of the electricity spent mining must be weighed against the bitcoins earned.  With a decently efficient chip, and with 100% of the results kept, this is very nearly a wash right now.  At 25%, it amounts to theft.

This type of thing could make sense in a space heater or coffee warmer, but that's about it.

[TheRealSteve]

'guess I'll choose this thread to respond to
( dupe thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1053412 )

The idea of mining using appliances - including toasters - has come up before;
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301742.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=864943.0

The business model of tossing a bunch of these out for free and asking for a non-minor fee (75%) might be an interesting one.  You have to wonder what sort of mining power they'd actually envisioning, though - i.e. something that (over all units) actually makes some double-digit percentage of the network hashing power, or a bunch of underpowered chips all playing the lottery.

Then again, this is all still based on an FT blog entry and not hard data.  I'll wait for the Chinese interview to get published.

[BitUsher]

This is simply a blindingly good business plan, exotically gorgeous in fact. For of course the cost of the electricity required to mine for bitcoin is very much larger than that 25 per cent of the value of the bitcoin that we get to keep.

For anyone who has to pay for their electricity, this is a horrid idea.  If the heat generated from the bitcoin miner isn't directly beneficial to the user, then the cost of the electricity spent mining must be weighed against the bitcoins earned.  With a decently efficient chip, and with 100% of the results kept, this is very nearly a wash right now.  At 25%, it amounts to theft.

This type of thing could make sense in a space heater or coffee warmer, but that's about it.

You bring up a fair concern. For some people the cost of electricity does not justify the savings on the free appliance and 25% mining /tx fees rewards. I would expect that there will be reviews and guides which go over the numbers and indicate which appliances are most efficient and agree the items which are used for heating like space heaters , coffee warmers , dehydrators, water heaters , ect... are likely to become the best candidates.

With 116million in backing and an aggressive campaign to make many different types of products they have a good chance of finding at least one product that is a home run and gets adopted by many.

[Alley]

This wil be for non bitcoin experts that dont understand electricity costs.  They will jump at a cheap appliance that makes them bitcoin.

[BitUsher]

This wil be for non bitcoin experts that dont understand electricity costs.  They will jump at a cheap appliance that makes them bitcoin.

Yes, this will likely also happen just like with mining in general today. Most small time miners who cannot properly plan for difficulty adjusting and do the math make unwise investments in ASICs and fail to make a ROI.

The difference here is the risk is minimal because there is little to no upfront costs and as soon as the user determines the electricity costs are to high they can stop mining or find cheaper electricity.

Either way , if it is done as a wise investment or flawed one mining will become more decentralized and new users will get exposed to bitcoin which will strengthen our ecosystem.

[Amph]

This is simply a blindingly good business plan, exotically gorgeous in fact. For of course the cost of the electricity required to mine for bitcoin is very much larger than that 25 per cent of the value of the bitcoin that we get to keep.

For anyone who has to pay for their electricity, this is a horrid idea.  If the heat generated from the bitcoin miner isn't directly beneficial to the user, then the cost of the electricity spent mining must be weighed against the bitcoins earned.  With a decently efficient chip, and with 100% of the results kept, this is very nearly a wash right now.  At 25%, it amounts to theft.

This type of thing could make sense in a space heater or coffee warmer, but that's about it.

not to mention the earning would be abysmally low it would not compete even with a faucet, unless they are planning to build-in last asic generation, but i doubt

[BitUsher]

not to mention the earning would be abysmally low it would not compete even with a faucet, unless they are planning to build-in last asic generation, but i doubt

I like to keep my coffee warm throughout the day. Right now my coffee makers and warmers aren't free, don't pay me some dust, and simply waste electricity doing their job. What happens when coffee warmers are given away for free that actually do something rather than just heat my coffee?

[NeuroticFish]

Hmmm... I fear that this will make mining even more centralized.
In order that "your toaster" actually give you anything, it will have to be connected to a pool, else it will have too small chance to return even the 25%.
Also I fear that they may get hardcoded to a couple of 21 Inc owned pools, which will just simply have 75% pool fee...

The idea is interesting, but there are (far) too many things they can do wrong. (Electricity price/theft included).
Let's see what happens next...

[BitUsher]

Hmmm... I fear that this will make mining even more centralized.
In order that "your toaster" actually give you anything, it will have to be connected to a pool, else it will have too small chance to return even the 25%.
Also I fear that they may get hardcoded to a couple of 21 Inc owned pools, which will just simply have 75% pool fee...

The idea is interesting, but there are (far) too many things they can do wrong. (Electricity price/theft included).
Let's see what happens next...

hmm... interesting thoughts ... The reverse could also be true if someone hacks the hardware and or firmware to get 100% of mining payouts.

Another interesting thought is what happens to all the current manufacturers of appliances when their competitor is giving out free to heavily discounted appliances? Do they have to start producing ASIC appliances as well to compete?

[acquafredda]

If it’s free you’re probably the product.

Now, there is, we’d argue, a deep-seated problem with any business model that relies on a perpetual free lunch to maintain its bottom line. Our contacts, for example, note that bitcoin is already trading below 21 Inc’s worst-case projected price scenario, upon which the original business plan was based.

But there’s something broader. 21 Inc claims to be democratising and decommoditising bitcoin but seems to be openly corporatising mining by promising to turn everyone into a poorly paid employee.

As Jaron Lanier, author of Who Owns the Future?, has opined in the past, it is efforts like these that stand to turn Bitcoin into a plutocracy generating machine.

Quote from the article which is so tremendously true!
Nothing is free, maybe only the air you breathe that is polluted anyway...

Facebook is free... and the user is the product.
Gmail is free... and the user is the product.
Twitter is free... and the user is the product.

And so on...

[BitUsher]

If it’s free you’re probably the product.
Nothing is free, maybe only the air you breathe that is polluted anyway...

In a market of brutal competition where miners have to pay for security, warehouse leases, engineers, cheap electrical contracts, ect ... 21 Inc is attempting to off load those costs onto the user.

Profits will be realized through greater efficiencies -

Security is no longer needed anymore because there is no longer a warehouse full of expensive ASIC's to protect. There are millions of coffee warmers spread across homes that aren't worth the effort stealing each one.

Electricity can be free with certain products. If I can use the waste heat from ASICs to warm a cup of tea or coffee than I have just put that wasted energy to use.

No Warehouse rent needed or insurance as mining is decentralized and replacing an existing appliance in a home.

[S4VV4S]

If it’s free you’re probably the product.
Nothing is free, maybe only the air you breathe that is polluted anyway...

In a market of brutal competition where miners have to pay for security, warehouse leases, engineers, cheap electrical contracts, ect ... 21 Inc is attempting to off load those costs onto the user.

Profits will be realized through greater efficiencies -

Security is no longer needed anymore because there is no longer a warehouse full of expensive ASIC's to protect. There are millions of coffee warmers spread across homes that aren't worth the effort stealing each one.

Electricity can be free with certain products. If I can use the waste heat from ASICs to warm a cup of tea or coffee than I have just put that wasted energy to use.

No Warehouse rent needed or insurance as mining is decentralized and replacing an existing appliance in a home.

That, you do not know.

You have no idea what are the plans of 21 inc.
maybe they will set up their own pool where these new "miners" will mine.

[RodeoX]

Bam! Assuming there will be a wallet functionality, this is what I thought and hoped they were doing!

Fricking huge for bitcoin!!!!  

[S4VV4S]

If it’s free you’re probably the product.
Nothing is free, maybe only the air you breathe that is polluted anyway...

In a market of brutal competition where miners have to pay for security, warehouse leases, engineers, cheap electrical contracts, ect ... 21 Inc is attempting to off load those costs onto the user.

Profits will be realized through greater efficiencies -

Security is no longer needed anymore because there is no longer a warehouse full of expensive ASIC's to protect. There are millions of coffee warmers spread across homes that aren't worth the effort stealing each one.

Electricity can be free with certain products. If I can use the waste heat from ASICs to warm a cup of tea or coffee than I have just put that wasted energy to use.

No Warehouse rent needed or insurance as mining is decentralized and replacing an existing appliance in a home.

That, you do not know.

You have no idea what are the plans of 21 inc.
maybe they will set up their own pool where these new "miners" will mine.

I mean we should expect that, why wouldn't they? The miners are going to be preconfigured for this to work the way they want, what is more reliable then their own pool?

Why not P2Pool?

[louise123]

So that's what they been up to?
Hmm, I don't know if I should be glad or not.

We all know that miners tend to get really hot.
What if some appliance catches fire?
Would that be a good thing for Bitcoin?

[BitUsher]

I wonder how many TH/s it takes to toast bread in 2 minutes   . The idea is good but there aren't enough everyday items we use just for the heat, I can't think of too many.

Yes, but all it takes is one or two products. Personally I think most of the products in the article are non starters including the toaster for ASIC's and the journalists were deliberately misled so they didn't leak the real products which could be competitive in the market.

I can think of a few products that have a chance of working: electric space heaters, coffee/tea warmers, and  hot water heaters are a few examples.

That, you do not know.

You have no idea what are the plans of 21 inc.
maybe they will set up their own pool where these new "miners" will mine.

Agreed. Many scenarios could play out with further competition into appliance creating multiple new pools competing with older pools. A 21 Inc pool, a Samsung pool, a GE mining pool , ect...

... or if our hand is forced we may have to reverse enineer one of their products and create our own crowdfunded ASIC appliances that communicate with p2p pools.

[Amph]

If it’s free you’re probably the product.
Nothing is free, maybe only the air you breathe that is polluted anyway...

In a market of brutal competition where miners have to pay for security, warehouse leases, engineers, cheap electrical contracts, ect ... 21 Inc is attempting to off load those costs onto the user.

Profits will be realized through greater efficiencies -

Security is no longer needed anymore because there is no longer a warehouse full of expensive ASIC's to protect. There are millions of coffee warmers spread across homes that aren't worth the effort stealing each one.

Electricity can be free with certain products. If I can use the waste heat from ASICs to warm a cup of tea or coffee than I have just put that wasted energy to use.

No Warehouse rent needed or insurance as mining is decentralized and replacing an existing appliance in a home.

That, you do not know.

You have no idea what are the plans of 21 inc.
maybe they will set up their own pool where these new "miners" will mine.

I mean we should expect that, why wouldn't they? The miners are going to be preconfigured for this to work the way they want, what is more reliable then their own pool?

if their pool is made only of these asic, then it would be easy to spot, because they would have many down time, due to the appliances not being used all the time, also their pool would have a bad % profit because it will run with a low hashrate overall, i mean all those appliances can't compete even with the existing smallest pool

because of this, i think they will use an existing pool

[louise123]

I wonder how many TH/s it takes to toast bread in 2 minutes   . The idea is good but there aren't enough everyday items we use just for the heat, I can't think of too many.

Yes, but all it takes is one or two products. Personally I think most of the products in the article are non starters including the toaster for ASIC's and the journalists were deliberately misled so they didn't leak the real products which could be competitive in the market.

I can think of a few products that have a chance of working: electric space heaters, coffee/tea warmers, and  hot water heaters are a few examples.

That, you do not know.

You have no idea what are the plans of 21 inc.
maybe they will set up their own pool where these new "miners" will mine.

Agreed. Many scenarios could play out with further competition into appliance creating multiple new pools competing with older pools. A 21 Inc pool, a Samsung pool, a GE mining pool , ect...

... or if our hand is forced we may have to reverse enineer one of their products and create our own crowdfunded ASIC appliances that communicate with p2p pools.

Well, why not hack their appliances (which will be our property since bought) and have them point to any pool that we want?

[S4VV4S]

I wonder how many TH/s it takes to toast bread in 2 minutes   . The idea is good but there aren't enough everyday items we use just for the heat, I can't think of too many.

Yes, but all it takes is one or two products. Personally I think most of the products in the article are non starters including the toaster for ASIC's and the journalists were deliberately misled so they didn't leak the real products which could be competitive in the market.

I can think of a few products that have a chance of working: electric space heaters, coffee/tea warmers, and  hot water heaters are a few examples.

That, you do not know.

You have no idea what are the plans of 21 inc.
maybe they will set up their own pool where these new "miners" will mine.

Agreed. Many scenarios could play out with further competition into appliance creating multiple new pools competing with older pools. A 21 Inc pool, a Samsung pool, a GE mining pool , ect...

... or if our hand is forced we may have to reverse enineer one of their products and create our own crowdfunded ASIC appliances that communicate with p2p pools.

Well, why not hack their appliances (which will be our property since bought) and have them point to any pool that we want?

^^^ That.
What is stopping us from doing that?