Nxt and the rise to the top.

[Daedelus]

No one argues that the PLATFORM  can be "useful". The question is does that usefulness add value to the coin or the project at large?

Yes. To use the platform you need to pay the transaction fees. Any and all successful use cases will add to buy demand for Nxt and add value if sustained over time.

The question then is even more basic: Since the platform is very successful and the increase in business (and scams) has been and continues being nothing short of exponential, the "transaction fees" must be mighty inappropriate (where do they go? --oh wait, don't answer that, it is my understanding that they go, 99.99% to the holders of the majority of NXT, right?), since, obviously, such success, as posted above, has only brought the decimation of the price of NXT to les than 1/4 of what was only weeks ago, right? Or am I missing something here?

How much does a large forger make in a year from forging (before any costs they might have)?


N.B
25% = 8.6M > 100% = 34.4M

Nxt hasn't been at $34M since about 8 months ago, not 'only weeks ago'. Careful with your language, facts can easily be checked and it damages your credibility if you continually attempt to show things much worse than they are. It makes you look like you have a hidden agenda 

[barabbas]

People saying NXT offers nothing of value must not be familiar with it.

I'm personally in the process of building a business that's going to be using the NXT platform. It offers lots of useful tools that add value. Listing an asset on the NXT AE, having a more flexible tool to issue value through the NXT Monetary System will help too, and being able to sign from accounts as well as send arbitrary messages on the blockchain should work quite well for 'notarizing' agreements between parties. Each feature solves a problem, and having everything on one platform is useful.

Working on projects with people from all over the world is easier and more efficient. And all of it exists now and works.

No one argues that the PLATFORM  can be "useful". The question is does that usefulness add value to the coin or the project at large? Read above and youll see statements from me to the effect everything that could ho right with the platform has gone right already. And yet the price has been slashed by 3/4 in a few weeks. So YOUR business on the platform hardly brings any real value to it, now does it?

On a separate side os the issue, notary services and smart contracts have already been implemented by others projects... to no "value added" effect whatsoever... i guess because, much like the coins, the services must be ready to use but, actually, no one is using them.

Well, my business isn't launched yet, but the intention is to bring value of course.

Out of all the ideas out there for cryptocurrencies, creating a platform for business where revenue can be generated from outside sources and then pulled back in to the NXT economy seems like a pretty sound plan to me.

You're right that the price hasn't been doing well, but that's endemic across the whole market. The interesting thing about this is that all it takes is one business generating a decent amount of revenue from outside the economy and funneling it back in to NXT to pay dividends to break the downward pattern.

There's only a few ideas out there in this space that make any sense to me at all in terms of creating a currency where demand might actually outstrip supply at some point, and to me NXT sounds like one of them. We'll see how it goes over time, but at least there are a lot of people trying to make things happen rather than just wait for the next Bitcoin bubble to ride the wave up.

Again, I haven't questioned the success of the platform at all. As a matter of fact I have posted many times, in over a year,  that I consider it by far the best in all of crypto. The questions raised are: Why is the obvious success of the platform a negative for the price -and a huge one at that- and is it the fact that it is probably intimidating to most potential users, in crypto and outside, the main couse of that apparent discordance. Those are the questions are for debate, not my presumed identity nor that exercise in absurdity that is the pretension that NXT -or any crypto- can be any kind of "solution" to the Greece crisis, ok?

Otherwise, I wish you all the luck in your business when it comes online... as long as it isn't one of the regular scams that plague the platform, of course.

[barabbas]

No one argues that the PLATFORM  can be "useful". The question is does that usefulness add value to the coin or the project at large?

Yes. To use the platform you need to pay the transaction fees. Any and all successful use cases will add to buy demand for Nxt and add value if sustained over time.

The question then is even more basic: Since the platform is very successful and the increase in business (and scams) has been and continues being nothing short of exponential, the "transaction fees" must be mighty inappropriate (where do they go? --oh wait, don't answer that, it is my understanding that they go, 99.99% to the holders of the majority of NXT, right?), since, obviously, such success, as posted above, has only brought the decimation of the price of NXT to les than 1/4 of what was only weeks ago, right? Or am I missing something here?

How much does a large forger make in a year from forging (before any costs they might have)?

I believe it is a "reasonable" percentage -as opposed to the scammy, ridiculous percentages earned by loads of shitcoins... but that's hardly the point. The POINT is that all of it, or 99.99% of it, by design, goes to the majority holders... those who hold millions of coins and cannot dump then in a market so lacking in liquidity, you understand? Which, again and again, comes back to the problem of distribution that has long plagued NXT. I don't say it is "unfair" but it is indeed a huge problem.

[Daedelus]

No one argues that the PLATFORM  can be "useful". The question is does that usefulness add value to the coin or the project at large?

Yes. To use the platform you need to pay the transaction fees. Any and all successful use cases will add to buy demand for Nxt and add value if sustained over time.

The question then is even more basic: Since the platform is very successful and the increase in business (and scams) has been and continues being nothing short of exponential, the "transaction fees" must be mighty inappropriate (where do they go? --oh wait, don't answer that, it is my understanding that they go, 99.99% to the holders of the majority of NXT, right?), since, obviously, such success, as posted above, has only brought the decimation of the price of NXT to les than 1/4 of what was only weeks ago, right? Or am I missing something here?

How much does a large forger make in a year from forging (before any costs they might have)?

I believe it is a "reasonable" percentage -as opposed to the scammy, ridiculous percentages earned by loads of shitcoins... but that's hardly the point. The POINT is that all of it, or 99.99% of it, by design, goes to the majority holders... those who hold millions of coins and cannot dump then in a market so lacking in liquidity, you understand? Which, again and again, comes back to the problem of distribution that has long plagued NXT. I don't say it is "unfair" but it is indeed a huge problem.

It was last calculated at about 0.5% per annum (before the bear market, I would wager it is now less but let's go with it).

The largest forger owning 5% of Nxt (50Million NXT) earns 250,000 NXT a year or roughly 684 NXT per day (roughly $6 a day before any running costs). And this is the biggest holder of Nxt, no one earns more than him, so we can agree that forging revenues have nothing to do with falling price (or, on a wider point, "the rich getting richer").


Why do you assume the major holders want to dump? Please define the huge problem you see.

[barabbas]

The price seems to be on one long downward trend. Doesn't make sense.

Yes, that's pretty odd. NXT getting more and more features, more and more value/investment but it still in downtrend. I guess it's happening because of it's pegged to BTC and BTC is also bearish.

Altcoins usually tend to follow Bitcoin's price trend but in a much more exaggerated manner (since they signify more risk). Litecoin is another example of a coin that lost value a lot more than Bitcoin. Also remember that NXT experienced two bubbles/spikes in 2014 - the first one happened at around the beginning of the year and the second one happened at around June when the price shot up to over 10 cents. Usually these types of bubbles aren't sustainable, and so you would expect to see the price decline from the ATH. The exact same thing happened to BitShares and Darkcoin too.

The price of NXT has slumped and being dumped to 1/3 it's recent highs a few months ago. FACT. Yes, to every metric, the platform is as successful as it can be given the time span, and growing significantly: The definition of success... what's wrong with this picture? The ghost of the initial distribution, of course, is a clear influence -and, no doubt, the source of the dumping, elaborate but relentless- but, mostly, that NEXT is an intimidating, enormously complex project/platform. One would have to study it, through the tens of thousands of sources available, for YEARS to really get an understanding of what it is, what it does, what it can do, who is doing it and how the whole thing works and, supposedly, will continue to work. All without any single responsible (legally) institutions or real names behind it. Needless to say it, all of this is scary enough to have most people in crypto -and absolutely everyone outside of crypto- not wanting to touch it with a ten feet pole.

I doubt an average individual with computer science background would need more then a month to fully understand the main parts of nxt.

But well barabbas is a retired actor.
He has neither experience nor knowledge about computer science, infrastructure and software development.

It is like talking about QM or GRT with a kindergarten teacher. They would take years/decades too ( prolly even more )...

You are quite far from knowing who I am, first. Second if you need graduates in computer sciences for NXT to go anywhere, then you have a much bigger problem than I thought you had. I guess the slogan would read something like this: "NEXT: THE CRYPTO COIN FOR THE COMPUTER SCIENCES GRADUATED JERKOFF STILL LIVING AT HOME AT 35". Quite compelling, perhaps. Growing demographic indeed... prolly...

You got doxxed and your reaction shows that it is the truth.

To fully understand a software you need to understand the code - that means you need to understand the language the software is written in. That is already computer science background.
of course if you are a graduate in CS it becomes a lot easier.
additionally nxt code is very well documented.

if you are just a speculator there are dozens of easy to understand graphics which connects and explain the services of nxt and supernet.

Also im neither 35 nor do i live at my parents home anymore lol
sorry but i earn much more then the average unknown actor

Your perception of who I am is to me of the same significance as to who you are or how much you make doing whatever it is that you do: Zero. So you can assume whatever serves your purposes better at any given time.

The questions, before you tried to derail the debate, were related to the complexity of the NXT platform and it's possible intimidating factor as a cause of the slump -disarray, in fact- of the price of late, on one side and, on another, the FACT that the obvious success of the platform -measured in usage, current and exponentially growing in the immediate and foreseeable future-, not only has not produced are real benefit to the project, as reflected in price, but the opposite indisputably. Any normal individual would use some very basic common sense to try and discern the reasons behind those two indisputable FACTS... but I know I am trying to obtain some thoughts out of a stone here, so don't even bother. Or do, as you must...

[Daedelus]

Let's stick to talking about Nxt and facts rather than each other and opinion.

[barabbas]

No one argues that the PLATFORM  can be "useful". The question is does that usefulness add value to the coin or the project at large?

Yes. To use the platform you need to pay the transaction fees. Any and all successful use cases will add to buy demand for Nxt and add value if sustained over time.

The question then is even more basic: Since the platform is very successful and the increase in business (and scams) has been and continues being nothing short of exponential, the "transaction fees" must be mighty inappropriate (where do they go? --oh wait, don't answer that, it is my understanding that they go, 99.99% to the holders of the majority of NXT, right?), since, obviously, such success, as posted above, has only brought the decimation of the price of NXT to les than 1/4 of what was only weeks ago, right? Or am I missing something here?

How much does a large forger make in a year from forging (before any costs they might have)?

I believe it is a "reasonable" percentage -as opposed to the scammy, ridiculous percentages earned by loads of shitcoins... but that's hardly the point. The POINT is that all of it, or 99.99% of it, by design, goes to the majority holders... those who hold millions of coins and cannot dump then in a market so lacking in liquidity, you understand? Which, again and again, comes back to the problem of distribution that has long plagued NXT. I don't say it is "unfair" but it is indeed a huge problem.

It was last calculated at about 0.5% per annum (before the bear market, I would wager it is now less but let's go with it).

The largest forger owning 5% of Nxt (50Million NXT) earns 250,000 NXT a year or roughly 684 NXT per day (roughly $6 a day before any running costs). And this is the biggest holder of Nxt, no one earns more than him, so we can agree that forging revenues have nothing to do with falling price (or, on a wider point, "the rich getting richer").


Why do you assume the major holders want to dump?

Again you try to avoid the main subject: A little or a lot it is all there is. And all goes to the richest. End of story there.

Answering your question, why WOULDN'T they? (want to dump). It's all gravy for them. They had nothing before, now they are millonaires. It's only human to want to live well when your fortunes have changed, isn't it? As a matter of fact it is my knowledge that one of the 73 already dumped all long ago -to nefarious consequences, of course-. And it is a miracle in my view, to be quite honest, that there's not even much more dumping going on by those holders, except for the fact that they know better than anyone that the price would go to near zero if they would start to aggressively dump instead of doing it orderly, as they are. But that is a somewhat only related subject, the question is WHY the price continues going down if the volume doesn't allow to speak properly or a dumping of any significance going on, when, I repeat what I stated above, everything that could go well with NEXT is going not just well but exceedingly so, don't you think?

Oh, the excuse that it is a slump for ALL cryptos doesn't fly, really. Some have suffered and some have rebounded significantly while others remain more or less stable, so it isn't THAT either (BTC itself sits at 40% above most recent lows). But hey, if you want to consider this price onslaught as "normal", more power to you...

[barabbas]

Let's stick to talking about Nxt and facts rather than each other and opinion.

That would be great. Is it a FACT that the businesses built on the platform don't bring any value to NXT since all the transaction fees go only to the millonaires holders of the coin?

[Daedelus]

Let's stick to talking about Nxt and facts rather than each other and opinion.

That would be great. Is it a FACT that the businesses built on the platform don't bring any value to NXT since all the transaction fees go only to the millonaires holders of the coin?

The assumption in your question is that transaction fees from forging are a source of wealth. I showed above that they aren't (to anyone in the west, $6 a day isn't hitting the motherload).

Businesses built on the platform are still in the incubation phase, as I said above, there are likely to be many failures. To answer your question, I would say 'no' to the first part and 'where is the relevance' to the second part. The value businesses will bring to the platform is proportional to the value they bring to their customers and will have nothing to do with forging.


(Again, careful with the language in your FACTs. The biggest holder of Nxt got the maximum of 50M Nxt in the Genesis block and hasn't sold any since launch. A quick fact check says they now hold >>> $400,000 dollars assuming they could cash it all out at a single price, which they can't. By definition, he/she can't be considered or characterised as a millionaire.)

[Daedelus]

I got to go, promised myself I would spend less time re-raking old ground   So will go do something useful/more enjoyable. But this is a positive thread, if the only gripes come from Nxt's strengths (asset exchange and business engagement) then I'll take it  

Will check in later on maybe.

[lopalcar]

Let's stick to talking about Nxt and facts rather than each other and opinion.

That would be great. Is it a FACT that the businesses built on the platform don't bring any value to NXT since all the transaction fees go only to the millonaires holders of the coin?

I don't see it as a fact.

The fees in the long run goes almost equally to all forgers, okay, big forgers earn more, same as people saving more money in the bank than me, almost everywhere, the more you have, the more you get, I don't think this is a very valid point.

If all blocks where full with at least 255nxt fees, the anual return would be a 17% or so "quick look at the forging calculator which isn't very accurate", that would incentivice people to hold nxt in order to forge, that also brings value to the coin I suppose. If the plattform becomes widely  used, many people will buy nxt simply for forge with them and get some money simply by running a node, wouldn't you? The fees could be adjusted in order to mantain a reasonable return.

Reading a bit the thread, I have to agree with you that for average user which basic computers knowledge "office, email, web browsing..." install and run the nxt software was imposible if they were alone... I suppose this can be solved, for what I know, next version will have autoinstaller, but still, make average users understand how the passphrase in nxt works, access the GUI throw pointing to specific port in localhost in the browser and such kind of things is difficult "just my experience with friends, and they aren't dumb people in other matters" But this same difficulty is the also the same for use bitcoin, maybe a bit less if they don't need  to know what they're really doing.

Well, as daedelus says, we are always talking about the same things, lets see what happens, believers will believe in nxt, at least I can use the plattform for buy more scams "as you say" but they are decentralized scams At least I'm getting scamed in a quite new and innovative way, I also have some ideas for bussiness to run on top of nxt, and when I have other live conditions I will do something for sure. Maybe someone want to take some shares in my "scams"
I'm also forging, and for the moment, I gave away all my little earning from that task to new users, I have a node simply for strenght the network, not for profit, profit would come with a well working network, we always had said that this is the main function of forging at the moment, maybe in the future can make some money, but now, the believer are running the nodes.

[barabbas]

Let's stick to talking about Nxt and facts rather than each other and opinion.

That would be great. Is it a FACT that the businesses built on the platform don't bring any value to NXT since all the transaction fees go only to the millonaires holders of the coin?

The assumption in your question is that transaction fees from forging are a source of wealth. I showed above that they aren't (to anyone in the west, $6 a day isn't hitting the motherload).

Businesses built on the platform are still in the incubation phase, as I said above, there are likely to be many failures. To answer your question, I would say 'no' to the first part and 'where is the relevance' to the second part. The value businesses will bring to the platform is proportional to the value they bring to their customers and will have nothing to do with forging.


(Again, careful with the language in your FACTs. The biggest holder of Nxt got the maximum of 50M Nxt in the Genesis block and hasn't sold any since launch. A quick fact check says they now hold >>> $400,000 dollars assuming they could cash it all out at a single price, which they can't. By definition, he/she can't be considered or characterised as a millionaire.)

I am all for accuracy and carefulness in the language. Always. When I say "millonaire" now I am referring to "millonaire in NXT, of course" since after being decimated in price hardly any holder has any significant FIAT denominated value in this thing. But if the transaction fees from the new business coming on the platform doesn't translate in some short of wealth, obviously we have a serious problem monetizing the platform and, logically, the more business coming the less advantageous (bloating comes to mind) and, under that premise, the slump in the price would be justified? You could say "no". And you could say anything you want but the FACT would remain that, big or small reward, the richest take it all. And that is quite relevant, of course... for everyone contemplating joining NXT (and not having the means to purchase millions of coins, of course). Not in other words, in THESE SPECIFICS WORDS, as per you explanation, there's no way to make money in NXT other than by trading and since it trades only on the downside, there's actually no possible way to make money in it, therefore, people is getting out, hence, the explanation of the slump.

[lopalcar]

I am all for accuracy and carefulness in the language. Always. When I say "millonaire" now I am referring to "millonaire in NXT, of course" since after being decimated in price hardly any holder has any significant FIAT denominated value in this thing. But if the transaction fees from the new business coming on the platform doesn't translate in some short of wealth, obviously we have a serious problem monetizing the platform and, logically, the more business coming the less advantageous (bloating comes to mind) and, under that premise, the slump in the price would be justified? You could say "no". And you could say anything you want but the FACT would remain that, big or small reward, the richest take it all. And that is quite relevant, of course... for everyone contemplating joining NXT (and not having the means to purchase millions of coins, of course). Not in other words, in THESE SPECIFICS WORDS, as per you explanation, there's no way to make money in NXT other than by trading and since it trades only on the downside, there's actually no possible way to make money in it, therefore, people is getting out, hence, the explanation of the slump.

Oh man, I also hate not being there while people was extracting gold or getting free lands... now their offspring have all the fiat money, and although I don't like it and that system doesn't offers anything to me, everything is built around it "for the moment"
Now take a look and see how biggest is the percentage in any crypto "with more usefull features than typical money" investing a bit of you fiat money into it and comparing it with the percentage of yor fiat money agains fiat supply...
But yes, I understand, fucking world, not same opportunitties for everyone, of course, ones have more luck and others less, but this applys to everything, don't be scared to use nxt only for that, use fiat money is much more scary if that is all your worry...
You are saying: Why would people use fiat money if they can't make a bunch of money only by buying fiat money? if all the money goes to people with money... then  isn't this?

[barabbas]

I am all for accuracy and carefulness in the language. Always. When I say "millonaire" now I am referring to "millonaire in NXT, of course" since after being decimated in price hardly any holder has any significant FIAT denominated value in this thing. But if the transaction fees from the new business coming on the platform doesn't translate in some short of wealth, obviously we have a serious problem monetizing the platform and, logically, the more business coming the less advantageous (bloating comes to mind) and, under that premise, the slump in the price would be justified? You could say "no". And you could say anything you want but the FACT would remain that, big or small reward, the richest take it all. And that is quite relevant, of course... for everyone contemplating joining NXT (and not having the means to purchase millions of coins, of course). Not in other words, in THESE SPECIFICS WORDS, as per you explanation, there's no way to make money in NXT other than by trading and since it trades only on the downside, there's actually no possible way to make money in it, therefore, people is getting out, hence, the explanation of the slump.

Oh man, I also hate not being there while people was extracting gold or getting free lands... now their offspring have all the fiat money, and although I don't like it and that system doesn't offers anything to me, everything is built around it "for the moment"
Now take a look and see how biggest is the percentage in any crypto "with more usefull features than typical money" investing a bit of you fiat money into it and comparing it with the percentage of yor fiat money agains fiat supply...
But yes, I understand, fucking world, not same opportunitties for everyone, of course, ones have more luck and others less, but this applys to everything, don't be scared to use nxt only for that, use fiat money is much more scary if that is all your worry...
You are saying: Why would people use fiat money if they can't make a bunch of money only by buying fiat money? if all the money goes to people with money... then  isn't this?

Sorry but I cannot make any sense of your convoluted post. Are you high on meds or other substances?

You seem to imply I consider "unfair" the distribution of NXT, which is absolutely not true. I could care less about it... except for two very significant facts: #1.- Regardless how "fair" or "lucky", when someone holds the volume that is traded in 6 months in his wallet, obviously that individual can manipulate the market and, in fact, kill the coin. It almost happened already when one of the 73 initial owners, dumped. And #2, those millonaire (in nxt) holders, in FACT, collect every forging coin, it doesn't matter how many or how few, they get them all, therefore any new potential investor with an intent to hold for the long haul will hesitate or desist on that alone. Combine #1 and #2 and you have a VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM.

Adding to that problem, as numerous times stated above, is the fact that this is, by far, the most complicated Alt coin in crypto (with wallets having constant problems at the exchanges, to boot). The intimidation factor, obviously would detour many potential new investors and is indeed the cause of the lack of adoption, in business and individuals. Worse yet, development seem to go in the opposite direction of simplifying  the process, thus resulting in the peculiar situation in which, the more "successful" the platform is, the more the price of the coin goes to the ground. Still, at a market cap around $8 million, there's a long way ahead, seemingly. All in the wrong (for investors) direction, I'm afraid. 

[lopalcar]

I am all for accuracy and carefulness in the language. Always. When I say "millonaire" now I am referring to "millonaire in NXT, of course" since after being decimated in price hardly any holder has any significant FIAT denominated value in this thing. But if the transaction fees from the new business coming on the platform doesn't translate in some short of wealth, obviously we have a serious problem monetizing the platform and, logically, the more business coming the less advantageous (bloating comes to mind) and, under that premise, the slump in the price would be justified? You could say "no". And you could say anything you want but the FACT would remain that, big or small reward, the richest take it all. And that is quite relevant, of course... for everyone contemplating joining NXT (and not having the means to purchase millions of coins, of course). Not in other words, in THESE SPECIFICS WORDS, as per you explanation, there's no way to make money in NXT other than by trading and since it trades only on the downside, there's actually no possible way to make money in it, therefore, people is getting out, hence, the explanation of the slump.

Oh man, I also hate not being there while people was extracting gold or getting free lands... now their offspring have all the fiat money, and although I don't like it and that system doesn't offers anything to me, everything is built around it "for the moment"
Now take a look and see how biggest is the percentage in any crypto "with more usefull features than typical money" investing a bit of you fiat money into it and comparing it with the percentage of yor fiat money agains fiat supply...
But yes, I understand, fucking world, not same opportunitties for everyone, of course, ones have more luck and others less, but this applys to everything, don't be scared to use nxt only for that, use fiat money is much more scary if that is all your worry...
You are saying: Why would people use fiat money if they can't make a bunch of money only by buying fiat money? if all the money goes to people with money... then  isn't this?

Sorry but I cannot make any sense of your convoluted post. Are you high on meds or other substances?

You seem to imply I consider "unfair" the distribution of NXT, which is absolutely not true. I could care less about it... except for two very significant facts: #1.- Regardless how "fair" or "lucky", when someone holds the volume that is traded in 6 months in his wallet, obviously that individual can manipulate the market and, in fact, kill the coin. It almost happened already when one of the 73 initial owners, dumped. And #2, those millonaire (in nxt) holders, in FACT, collect every forging coin, it doesn't matter how many or how few, they get them all, therefore any new potential investor with an intent to hold for the long haul will hesitate or desist on that alone. Combine #1 and #2 and you have a VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM.

Adding to that problem, as numerous times stated above, is the fact that this is, by far, the most complicated Alt coin in crypto (with wallets having constant problems at the exchanges, to boot). The intimidation factor, obviously would detour many potential new investors and is indeed the cause of the lack of adoption, in business and individuals. Worse yet, development seem to go in the opposite direction of simplifying  the process, thus resulting in the peculiar situation in which, the more "successful" the platform is, the more the price of the coin goes to the ground. Still, at a market cap around $8 million, there's a long way ahead, seemingly. All in the wrong (for investors) direction, I'm afraid. 

Maybe my english is too bad, but you seems to be complaining about the richest taking more rewards, and this makes new investors unlikely to come onboard... the reward they would get from fees is proportional to their stake "why do you say big forgers are the ONLY which can earn from fees? they earn MORE, but not ALL"
If you see my other post, more bussiness = more feess -> more return from forging -> more interest in buying and holding nxt for get this "now valuable" coins which generate more coins
And value can come from more sources than only the interest of forging, maybe can become used as coin and not only plattform...

What am I missing?

If you don't care about the distribution, why do you complain about big holders earning more? Buy more and earn the same as them... now is a good time I think, any serious company can afford to take a nice % of coins and earnd from fees as any big stakeholder.

In the other hand, I have to agree with you when you say that current whales can hurt a lot the market, with the low daily volumes in nxt this is a real danger... but I want to believe that most of the remaining whales believe in the coin and will hold it or sell it without destrying the price

[barabbas]

I am all for accuracy and carefulness in the language. Always. When I say "millonaire" now I am referring to "millonaire in NXT, of course" since after being decimated in price hardly any holder has any significant FIAT denominated value in this thing. But if the transaction fees from the new business coming on the platform doesn't translate in some short of wealth, obviously we have a serious problem monetizing the platform and, logically, the more business coming the less advantageous (bloating comes to mind) and, under that premise, the slump in the price would be justified? You could say "no". And you could say anything you want but the FACT would remain that, big or small reward, the richest take it all. And that is quite relevant, of course... for everyone contemplating joining NXT (and not having the means to purchase millions of coins, of course). Not in other words, in THESE SPECIFICS WORDS, as per you explanation, there's no way to make money in NXT other than by trading and since it trades only on the downside, there's actually no possible way to make money in it, therefore, people is getting out, hence, the explanation of the slump.

Oh man, I also hate not being there while people was extracting gold or getting free lands... now their offspring have all the fiat money, and although I don't like it and that system doesn't offers anything to me, everything is built around it "for the moment"
Now take a look and see how biggest is the percentage in any crypto "with more usefull features than typical money" investing a bit of you fiat money into it and comparing it with the percentage of yor fiat money agains fiat supply...
But yes, I understand, fucking world, not same opportunitties for everyone, of course, ones have more luck and others less, but this applys to everything, don't be scared to use nxt only for that, use fiat money is much more scary if that is all your worry...
You are saying: Why would people use fiat money if they can't make a bunch of money only by buying fiat money? if all the money goes to people with money... then  isn't this?

Sorry but I cannot make any sense of your convoluted post. Are you high on meds or other substances?

You seem to imply I consider "unfair" the distribution of NXT, which is absolutely not true. I could care less about it... except for two very significant facts: #1.- Regardless how "fair" or "lucky", when someone holds the volume that is traded in 6 months in his wallet, obviously that individual can manipulate the market and, in fact, kill the coin. It almost happened already when one of the 73 initial owners, dumped. And #2, those millonaire (in nxt) holders, in FACT, collect every forging coin, it doesn't matter how many or how few, they get them all, therefore any new potential investor with an intent to hold for the long haul will hesitate or desist on that alone. Combine #1 and #2 and you have a VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM.

Adding to that problem, as numerous times stated above, is the fact that this is, by far, the most complicated Alt coin in crypto (with wallets having constant problems at the exchanges, to boot). The intimidation factor, obviously would detour many potential new investors and is indeed the cause of the lack of adoption, in business and individuals. Worse yet, development seem to go in the opposite direction of simplifying  the process, thus resulting in the peculiar situation in which, the more "successful" the platform is, the more the price of the coin goes to the ground. Still, at a market cap around $8 million, there's a long way ahead, seemingly. All in the wrong (for investors) direction, I'm afraid. 

Maybe my english is too bad, but you seems to be complaining about the richest taking more rewards, and this makes new investors unlikely to come onboard... the reward they would get from fees is proportional to their stake "why do you say big forgers are the ONLY which can earn from fees? they earn MORE, but not ALL"
If you see my other post, more bussiness = more feess -> more return from forging -> more interest in buying and holding nxt for get this "now valuable" coins which generate more coins
And value can come from more sources than only the interest of forging, maybe can become used as coin and not only plattform...

What am I missing?

If you don't care about the distribution, why do you complain about big holders earning more? Buy more and earn the same as them... now is a good time I think, any serious company can afford to take a nice % of coins and earnd from fees as any big stakeholder.

In the other hand, I have to agree with you when you say that current whales can hurt a lot the market, with the low daily volumes in nxt this is a real danger... but I want to believe that most of the remaining whales believe in the coin and will hold it or sell it without destrying the price

Obviously we seem to have a language problem. I stated I don't care about the fairness or not of the process but I do care about the distribution resulting because it IS a problem, whether fair or unfair. Also you should take a look at the forging process and you will discover you are WRONG in your assumptions. Finally, I don't "complain". I state educated concerns, rather. As for so called "whales" with the current volume there are no whales, in fact, just people dumping and a few picking up perceived cheap coins. Whales need volume to operate and a few BTC every day is NOT in their realm. They are, at this point, just a figment of your imagination, a scapegoat as it were for you to rationalize -only in your mind- why the price action is so negative instead of looking at the real picture.

[thebenjamincode]

wow! what a good coin, i hope for its success in the future

[EvilDave]

No one argues that the PLATFORM  can be "useful". The question is does that usefulness add value to the coin or the project at large?

Yes. To use the platform you need to pay the transaction fees. Any and all successful use cases will add to buy demand for Nxt and add value if sustained over time.

The question then is even more basic: Since the platform is very successful and the increase in business (and scams) has been and continues being nothing short of exponential, the "transaction fees" must be mighty inappropriate (where do they go? --oh wait, don't answer that, it is my understanding that they go, 99.99% to the holders of the majority of NXT, right?), since, obviously, such success, as posted above, has only brought the decimation of the price of NXT to les than 1/4 of what was only weeks ago, right? Or am I missing something here?

TX fees go 100% to forging (ie actively participating in the network) accounts:
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_charts
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_distribution

Some of the stuff you are missing:
Decimation would actually mean that NXT was at 90% of its previous price....and could you tell me exactly how many weeks ago NXT was at 3.6 dollarcents ?
Is it 50 weeks or 52 ? We do have a name for these longer time periods, B. Still, good tactic. 

[lopalcar]

Obviously we seem to have a language problem. I stated I don't care about the fairness or not of the process but I do care about the distribution resulting because it IS a problem, whether fair or unfair. Also you should take a look at the forging process and you will discover you are WRONG in your assumptions. Finally, I don't "complain". I state educated concerns, rather. As for so called "whales" with the current volume there are no whales, in fact, just people dumping and a few picking up perceived cheap coins. Whales need volume to operate and a few BTC every day is NOT in their realm. They are, at this point, just a figment of your imagination, a scapegoat as it were for you to rationalize -only in your mind- why the price action is so negative instead of looking at the real picture.

Well, I'm afraid none of us is using correct terms... I know split stake in multiple accounts have a little punishment, so isn't exactly proportional, but you are saying that ALL fees goes to big holders, and that is false.
And ok, you aren't complaining, you are exposing concerns and I don't care either if it's fair or unfair, but I can't see your points... I also said that distribution could be a problem, I agree with that, but this problem will get solved with time, and current situation accelerate this process

I'm not saying that "imaginary whales" or nxt millionaries are the ones behind this prices, there are many factors, the more important, is that MOST of the money in alts isn't from people which cares about cryptos, they are speculators which found a nice place to make money without really much money. I'm sure that there are people holding many nxt  in an exchange and never used the nxt wallet, and they don't care about it, nor bitcoin or any other alt, only for how much does it worth in fiat money, and nxt being so complex to use like you said "which is partially true" discourage speculators which only know how to use btc-qt wallet and experiment with something new to play with nxt, resulting in a such low volume, in adittion, the biggest players from this markets are whales from the BTC and LTC mining times, and given that most of they aren't now the whales in the nxt ecosystem, they are much more cautious because some "new whale" can dump a shitload of nxt in them. Does this make any sense to you?

I have the feeling that you and me will never agree, seems like you aren't looking either to the real picture, you are convinced of your point and there are many more factors, and concretely, the cause you are pointing is the less important for me. "maybe you are right, who knows... if you have this feeling too, let me know and we stop the discussion "

[barabbas]

No one argues that the PLATFORM  can be "useful". The question is does that usefulness add value to the coin or the project at large?

Yes. To use the platform you need to pay the transaction fees. Any and all successful use cases will add to buy demand for Nxt and add value if sustained over time.

The question then is even more basic: Since the platform is very successful and the increase in business (and scams) has been and continues being nothing short of exponential, the "transaction fees" must be mighty inappropriate (where do they go? --oh wait, don't answer that, it is my understanding that they go, 99.99% to the holders of the majority of NXT, right?), since, obviously, such success, as posted above, has only brought the decimation of the price of NXT to les than 1/4 of what was only weeks ago, right? Or am I missing something here?

TX fees go 100% to forging (ie actively participating in the network) accounts:
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_charts
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_distribution

Some of the stuff you are missing:
Decimation would actually mean that NXT was at 90% of its previous price....and could you tell me exactly how many weeks ago NXT was at 3.6 dollarcents ?
Is it 50 weeks or 52 ? We do have a name for these longer time periods, B. Still, good tactic. 

First, obviously we have a very different interpretation of what "price decimation" is. For you it would mean at least going to 1000 sat, since NXT touched 10k sat not too long ago (a few months, very few). For me decimated price means anything beyond 1/2 lost. And it has gone not just there but 2/3 lost and even, as close as 24 hours ago, 3/4 lost. "You", the collective "you" -I imagine the cheerleaders of NXT- may have a name for that.... I do too and it is "delusional". I doubt yours will be the same. As for "tactic", well, that explains pretty much all there's to explain, right?. Just like avoiding the FACTS: tHE MOST SUCCESSFUL THE PLATFORM HAS BEEN IN MANY MONTHS, THE WORSE IS HAS REFLECTED IN THE PRICE. Which, to any normal person would indicate at least the red light that maybe something is being done wrong somewhere and that success without monetization -as reflected in price- is not real success but, actually, the opposite. Finally ignoring the "not exactly proportional" distribution of forging, goes to the clumsy attempts as ignoring the truth. And the FACTS. Which, as we now know, is just typical of you and where you stand. Please don't let reality and facts intefere with your agenda, by any means, ok?