2000-4000 BTC loan - Hookah Lounge

[dank]

Making up numbers?  Would you like to review my spreadsheet and tell me what's made up about it?

Yes, I would.  Post or PM a dropbox or google docs link. 

Will PM.

Out of curiosity, which city are you setting this up in?

I'd prefer not to disclose to non-investors at this time.

Seems like information anyone will be asking for before investing.

I'm taking it bitcoinbear is not interested in investing, so why would I share that with him?  I have no problem talking details with people who are really interested.

Out of curiosity, which city are you setting this up in?

I'd prefer not to disclose to non-investors at this time.

Seems like information anyone will be asking for before investing.

Right. How is anybody going to invest if you will not even share simple things like where it is, let alone important information like your identity?

See comment to Rarity.

[bitcoinbear]

I'm taking it bitcoinbear is not interested in investing, so why would I share that with him?  I have no problem talking details with people who are really interested.

Presumably, anybody who would invest is reading this thread. I assume this information would be useful to them. Therefore, I asked you so you could disclose it so they could see it. Plus I was curious.

[dank]

I'm taking it bitcoinbear is not interested in investing, so why would I share that with him?  I have no problem talking details with people who are really interested.

Presumably, anybody who would invest is reading this thread. I assume this information would be useful to them. Therefore, I asked you so you could disclose it so they could see it. Plus I was curious.

I prefer to talk about specifics off a public forum.  The Internet's a scary place.

[Rarity]

I don't think a state, for instance, is overly specific.  It determines a lot about the form and viability of the business.  Take a look at all the different laws out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States

In a state like North Carolina you could open a hookah lounge but not be able to serve food.

Statewide ban on smoking in bars, restaurants, and some other workplaces: On January 2, 2010, after being signed into law by Governor Bev Perdue on May 19, 2009, North Carolina Session Law 2009-27 went into effect, banning smoking statewide in all bars and restaurants in North Carolina, as well as in government buildings and vehicles.[271] The law exempts cigar bars, private clubs that are not-for-profit (including country clubs), designated hotel/motel smoking areas, and medical research facilities studying tobacco.[271] The law generally allows local governments to regulate smoking more strictly beginning July 5, 2009 (as long as it is approved by the county, too), but preempts local governments from regulating smoking in cigar bars, retail tobacco shops, tobacco manufacturer facilities, designated hotel/motel smoking rooms, private clubs (including country clubs), theatrical productions involving smoking, private residences, or private vehicles.[271]

In a state like Wyoming it would be no problem.

No statewide smoking ban. Instead, Wyoming state law only prohibits smoking where it could cause an explosion[380][381][382] and in underground mines.[383] Wyoming has no state laws concerning indoor smoking in general, and thus local governments can regulate general indoor smoking as they see fit. As of April 2009, five cities in Wyoming have enacted local smoking bans, all covering all bars and restaurants, but varying otherwise.[4] In February 2009, a bill before the Wyoming Legislature that would have enacted a statewide ban on smoking in all enclosed workplaces, except in private offices and in bars and restaurants serving only patrons over 21 years of age (and except in any local community that chose to opt out) failed when it was passed by the Wyoming House of Representatives in a vote of 31–29 but then was denied a committee hearing in the Wyoming Senate.[384]

Whereas in a state like Wisconsin you would not be able to do it at all.

Statewide smoking ban: On July 5, 2010, after being signed into law by Governor Jim Doyle on May 18, 2009, S.B. 181 (2009 Wisconsin Act 12) took effect, banning smoking statewide in all enclosed workplaces in Wisconsin, including all bars, restaurants, lodging establishments, and private clubs, as well as within a "reasonable distance" outdoors from any such place, except in bar/restaurant outdoor patios.[378] The Act exempts only cigar bars or retail tobacco stores already in existence, private residences, and rooms in nursing homes in which the occupants agree to allow smoking;[378] it does not cover casinos run by Native American tribes, as those casinos are in the tribes' sovereign territory. Local governments are preempted from regulating smoking more strictly than the Act.[378] Prior to this law taking effect, several localities in Wisconsin had local smoking bans in effect.

And of course any local area may have their own regulations as well.  Hard to determine a level of interest without some general location information.

[dank]

I don't think a state, for instance, is overly specific.  It determines a lot about the form and viability of the business.  Take a look at all the different laws out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States

In a state like North Carolina you could open a hookah lounge but not be able to serve food.

Statewide ban on smoking in bars, restaurants, and some other workplaces: On January 2, 2010, after being signed into law by Governor Bev Perdue on May 19, 2009, North Carolina Session Law 2009-27 went into effect, banning smoking statewide in all bars and restaurants in North Carolina, as well as in government buildings and vehicles.[271] The law exempts cigar bars, private clubs that are not-for-profit (including country clubs), designated hotel/motel smoking areas, and medical research facilities studying tobacco.[271] The law generally allows local governments to regulate smoking more strictly beginning July 5, 2009 (as long as it is approved by the county, too), but preempts local governments from regulating smoking in cigar bars, retail tobacco shops, tobacco manufacturer facilities, designated hotel/motel smoking rooms, private clubs (including country clubs), theatrical productions involving smoking, private residences, or private vehicles.[271]

In a state like Wyoming it would be no problem.

No statewide smoking ban. Instead, Wyoming state law only prohibits smoking where it could cause an explosion[380][381][382] and in underground mines.[383] Wyoming has no state laws concerning indoor smoking in general, and thus local governments can regulate general indoor smoking as they see fit. As of April 2009, five cities in Wyoming have enacted local smoking bans, all covering all bars and restaurants, but varying otherwise.[4] In February 2009, a bill before the Wyoming Legislature that would have enacted a statewide ban on smoking in all enclosed workplaces, except in private offices and in bars and restaurants serving only patrons over 21 years of age (and except in any local community that chose to opt out) failed when it was passed by the Wyoming House of Representatives in a vote of 31–29 but then was denied a committee hearing in the Wyoming Senate.[384]

Whereas in a state like Wisconsin you would not be able to do it at all.

Statewide smoking ban: On July 5, 2010, after being signed into law by Governor Jim Doyle on May 18, 2009, S.B. 181 (2009 Wisconsin Act 12) took effect, banning smoking statewide in all enclosed workplaces in Wisconsin, including all bars, restaurants, lodging establishments, and private clubs, as well as within a "reasonable distance" outdoors from any such place, except in bar/restaurant outdoor patios.[378] The Act exempts only cigar bars or retail tobacco stores already in existence, private residences, and rooms in nursing homes in which the occupants agree to allow smoking;[378] it does not cover casinos run by Native American tribes, as those casinos are in the tribes' sovereign territory. Local governments are preempted from regulating smoking more strictly than the Act.[378] Prior to this law taking effect, several localities in Wisconsin had local smoking bans in effect.

And of course any local area may have their own regulations as well.  Hard to determine a level of interest without some general location information.

He didn't ask for a state, he asked for a city.  I'm aware of these regulations and that's why there won't be a problem starting up.

[Rarity]

So what are the local regulations?  Are you allowed to expand into food or beverages if you so desire or not?  Is there any talk in your state of increasing regulations?  Is a new smoking regulation why the other hookah lounge went to food service only?

[dank]

So what are the local regulations?  Are you allowed to expand into food or beverages if you so desire or not?  Is there any talk in your state of increasing regulations?  Is a new smoking regulation why the other hookah lounge went to food service only?

Yes, we can serve food and drinks if we choose to.  The other hookah lounge is taking a temporary break from hookah, they operated with both before and probably will in the future.

[repentance]

And it wouldn't be a necessary component to make this operation successful.  I've already calculated that I can bring in $16,000 a month off hookah, alone.  People can get their own drinks and still have a good time at the only hookah lounge in the city.

Besides, I'm not of age to obtain such a license.

Have you checked into whether your city/state requires you to have a liquor licence if you're going to allow people to bring their own alcohol and consume it on the premises?  Have you checked how much it will cost you to comply with local regulations regarding food and beverage service?  Have you checked into what commercial licences and insurances you will need in order to operate your business (it won't be "none") and their cost?  

Have you checked into the health department requirements applying to providing hookahs for the use of your clients and factored in the cost of meeting those requirements (you're likely not going to be allowed to let a new customer use a hookah which has just been used by someone else without decontaminating it in some way and/or swapping out mouthpieces)?  Are you even familiar with standard protocols for preventing the transmission of communicable diseases and their cost?

[Rarity]

So what are the local regulations?  Are you allowed to expand into food or beverages if you so desire or not?  Is there any talk in your state of increasing regulations?  Is a new smoking regulation why the other hookah lounge went to food service only?

Yes, we can serve food and drinks if we choose to.

What are the local regulations, specifically?  Only ten states have no statewide smoking bans.  Alabama, Alaska, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, West Virginia, and Wyoming.   Are you in one of those states?  If not, have you consulted a lawyer so as to double check your understanding of the law?

[heatstroke]

Has anyone addressed that his business plan assumes $16k per month in profit, year round in a college town?  Does no one go home for summer vacation in your area?  You realize that bars and restaurants have busy seasons and off-seasons, right?  Even within the week there's slow days.

Do you have a backup plan in case your made-up numbers are wrong?  A contingency plan in case you're not making $16k like clockwork every month?  Do you really think the other hookah bar in town would close if they were making such comical amounts of money?

You're also predicting 200% markups in an industry known for razor thin profit margins, an industry which you have zero experience in (and no desire to gain experience in until bitcoiners buy you a fully-operational business).  You could spend the weekend getting stoned and watching Kitchen Nightmares and it would actually improve your business plan.  Think about that.

Making up numbers?  Would you like to review my spreadsheet and tell me what's made up about it?

Yes, I would.  Post or PM a dropbox or google docs link.  

Seconded.  This should be good for a laugh.

[repentance]

Links to articles on starting a hookah lounge/bar.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/open-hookah-lounge-regulations-23199.html

Register with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives if you intend to sell shisha or other tobacco products. The ATF makes forms available on its website.

If you're too young to get a liquor licence, are you old enough to get a licence to sell tobacco products?

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/start-hookah-bar-12606.html

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/start-hookah-lounge-business-13874.html

Sample business plan for hookah bar.

http://www.bplans.com/hookah_bar_business_plan/executive_summary_fc.php#.UE7Ut7Igeuk

http://www.bplans.com/hookah_bar_business_plan/financial_plan_fc.php#.UE7T_bIgeuk (financials)

Threads on another forum regarding starting hookah bars/lounges.

http://www.hookahpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10836

More stuff.

Zoning laws vary, but most States will require special ventilation to circulate air or possibly insulation foam to protect other building tenants from second hand smoke. All lounges must follow health and safety regulations. Training is essential in the proper handling and care of hookahs. The communities will give these start-up businesses increased scrutiny because of second hand smoking issues. Expect to pay higher business insurance premiums because of the possible liability issues attached to smoking hookahs.

http://voices.yahoo.com/how-start-hookah-business-4807424.html?cat=3

[dank]

So what are the local regulations?  Are you allowed to expand into food or beverages if you so desire or not?  Is there any talk in your state of increasing regulations?  Is a new smoking regulation why the other hookah lounge went to food service only?

Yes, we can serve food and drinks if we choose to.

What are the local regulations, specifically?  Only ten states have no statewide smoking bans.  Alabama, Alaska, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, West Virginia, and Wyoming.   Are you in one of those states?  If not, have you consulted a lawyer so as to double check your understanding of the law?

I already said in the OP I was going to talk with my attorney, later this week.

Has anyone addressed that his business plan assumes $16k per month in profit, year round in a college town?  Does no one go home for summer vacation in your area?  You realize that bars and restaurants have busy seasons and off-seasons, right?  Even within the week there's slow days.

Do you have a backup plan in case your made-up numbers are wrong?  A contingency plan in case you're not making $16k like clockwork every month?  Do you really think the other hookah bar in town would close if they were making such comical amounts of money?

You're also predicting 200% markups in an industry known for razor thin profit margins, an industry which you have zero experience in (and no desire to gain experience in until bitcoiners buy you a fully-operational business).  You could spend the weekend getting stoned and watching Kitchen Nightmares and it would actually improve your business plan.  Think about that.

Making up numbers?  Would you like to review my spreadsheet and tell me what's made up about it?

Yes, I would.  Post or PM a dropbox or google docs link. 

Seconded.  This should be good for a laugh.

Maybe freshman, at select schools, go home for parts of the year.  I know some schools keep students year round.  The backup, in case I don't make the modeled $13.6k/month profit, is that I can lose half my customer base and still profit.  My numbers are averages, I really wouldn't be surprised if they're also underestimates.  Again, the other hookah bar didn't close, the other hookah bar is a restaurant, and they stopped serving hookah, temporarily.  Apparently, they're more focused on being a restaurant, as are their clients that come there to eat.

Regarding the 200% markups, where is your evidence of that?  Headshops can easily turn a 200-400% profit on the right items.

Repentance, thank you for the links, yes I can get a license to distribute tobacco.

[Rarity]

Who is your attorney?

[dank]

Who is your attorney?

None of your business.

[Rarity]

If we are to rely on his or her legal advice to judge the quality of this investment it would be nice to have more information.  Your need for secrecy seems to be bordering on a level of paranoia which is unnecessary for a legitimate businessman such as yourself.  I hope you are not planning this business while on dangerous drugs.

[BorderBits]

I'm sure an attorney will be happy to take your money.  But, they'll also be really confused at the incoherent questions and the spreadsheets of made up numbers.  Their legal advice will probably be along the lines of, "I'm not sure what you're asking", "I would advise against this idea", and "have you ever had a job?"

[dank]

If we are to rely on his or her legal advice to judge the quality of this investment it would be nice to have more information.  Your need for secrecy seems to be bordering on a level of paranoia which is unnecessary for a legitimate businessman such as yourself.  I hope you are not planning this business while on dangerous drugs.

You aren't relying on his legal advice, you're not investing.  It truly does not concern you who my lawyer is.

Once again, another article, completely unrelated to the thread, with no sources, no studies, no proof.

I'm sure an attorney will be happy to take your money.  But, they'll also be really confused at the incoherent questions and the spreadsheets of made up numbers.  Their legal advice will probably be along the lines of, "I'm not sure what you're asking", "I would advise against this idea", and "have you ever had a job?"

My attorney knows me quite well, he knows my plans in life and he supports me fully.  I love how you can predict conversations that haven't happened.

[BorderBits]

If an attorney supports you and your plans fully, why not ask him to be your investor? 

[Rarity]

If we are to rely on his or her legal advice to judge the quality of this investment it would be nice to have more information.  Your need for secrecy seems to be bordering on a level of paranoia which is unnecessary for a legitimate businessman such as yourself.  I hope you are not planning this business while on dangerous drugs.

You aren't relying on his legal advice, you're not investing.  It truly does not concern you who my lawyer is.

You are the one begging for a loan on a public forum.  I'm simply telling you what the public will want to know. 

Once again, another article, completely unrelated to the thread, with no sources, no studies, no proof.

You can look up the study yourself, but nobody is going to take your conclusions more seriously than what the USC doctors have said.  I hope your non-denial of current drug use does not suggest that you are still using.

[greyhawk]

If an attorney supports you and your plans fully, why not ask him to be your investor? 

Would that even work? It sounds as if dank is the attorney's investor already.