yes i know it's provably fair but ...

[ssstand]

https://i.imgur.com/VQFW4Se.jpg

 

I know it's provably fair, but this really makes me think if
there is any "special" mechanism beyond the screen.

This is not the first time happens to me, also there are
another things similar to this...

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[NLNico]

It depends on the provably fair method used. Some implementation of some sites are actually not really complete and allow the casino to still cheat in certain ways. However I am not sure what site that is and therefor I do not know if that site has a good implementation.

[ssstand]

The site is http://casino.newsandscore.com/

btw, which sites that implements completely provably fair mechanism ?

[NLNico]

Well first thing to realize is that provably fair does not mean the casino cannot cheat. It only means you as a player could detect cheating if you take the time to verify the outcomes (and if the implementation is correct.)

I had a quick look and they use "verify per roll" method, which means you should verify the outcome after each bet. They DO seem to use a good implementation for the "per roll" method, especially since they generate a random clientseed every bet in the browser.

The "verify" button only checks on their site so cannot be trusted, you should manually verify the rolls by this:

1. Before bet: Copy "Hash (Result + Secret)" on the right side of the site (and ideally change your client seed.)
2. Make your bet
3. Copy "Result + Secret" into: http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator and check if the result is the same as the hash that you got before the game (and therefor really true.)
4. Combine your client seed and their result (if more than 36, it will start from 0... so 18+24 = 42 = result 5)

You now know that they gave the hashed result before the game already (since you checked the hashed) and that the result is correct




PS, you can read my article http://dicesites.com/provably-fair for a better understanding. And a lot of dice sites use a different implementation with a nonce. IMO that makes it faster for the player to verify the results since you don't have to verify every bet. Some examples that use this: PrimeDice, JustDice, PocketRocketsCasino, BitDice, SafeDice and many others.

PS2, the odds for you to lose 3 or more times in 7 bets is 0.47% which is not that crazy. To lose 3 or more times in all 16 bets is 5.21% chance of happening.

[Rmcdermott927]

 

I know it's provably fair, but this really makes me think if
there is any "special" mechanism beyond the screen.

This is not the first time happens to me, also there are
another things similar to this...

If the site does not allow you to change the client seed, then it is not truly fair.    That client seed is a huge part of the key in making sure the server(house) can't cheat the customers.   Provably fair is one of the biggest contributions that bitcoin has made to gambling.

[ssstand]

Well first thing to realize is that provably fair does not mean the casino cannot cheat. It only means you as a player could detect cheating if you take the time to verify the outcomes (and if the implementation is correct.)

I had a quick look and they use "verify per roll" method, which means you should verify the outcome after each bet. They DO seem to use a good implementation for the "per roll" method, especially since they generate a random clientseed every bet in the browser.

The "verify" button only checks on their site so cannot be trusted, you should manually verify the rolls by this:

1. Before bet: Copy "Hash (Result + Secret)" on the right side of the site (and ideally change your client seed.)
2. Make your bet
3. Copy "Result + Secret" into: http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator and check if the result is the same as the hash that you got before the game (and therefor really true.)
4. Combine your client seed and their result (if more than 36, it will start from 0... so 18+24 = 42 = result 5)

You now know that they gave the hashed result before the game already (since you checked the hashed) and that the result is correct




PS, you can read my article http://dicesites.com/provably-fair for a better understanding. And a lot of dice sites use a different implementation with a nonce. IMO that makes it faster for the player to verify the results since you don't have to verify every bet. Some examples that use this: PrimeDice, JustDice, PocketRocketsCasino, BitDice, SafeDice and many others.

PS2, the odds for you to lose 3 or more times in 7 bets is 0.47% which is not that crazy. To lose 3 or more times in all 16 bets is 5.21% chance of happening.

Thanks your explanation, i will take time to read this, and also consider to play the dice game

PS, i am horrible at Math, i think is time to retake the books...

[Operatr]

I was reading the reddit article/post below the other day, and it seems even the "provably fair" system can be a false sense of security for gamblers more then anything else.

Post is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/

I'm NOT a coding expert, but if this post is true? my guess is most casinos are using it to bypass the "provably fair" system. 

Unfortunately when money is involved, extreme GREED always follows.

[XinXan]

I was reading the reddit article/post below the other day, and it seems even the "provably fair" system can be a false sense of security for gamblers more then anything else.

Post is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/

I'm NOT a coding expert, but if this post is true? my guess is most casinos are using it to bypass the "provably fair" system.  

Unfortunately when money is involved, extreme GREED always follows.

Keepinquiet an user here in bitcointalk has been investigating different casino sites that use ''provably fair'' but in a way they could cheat, he already exposed a few of them and it seems like at least 50% of all the casinos advertised on this forum dont have the provably fair system implemented how it should be, however if the site did it right, there would be no way for them to cheat as far as i know.

I asked about this not long ago and people told me that there was no way if the system was really provably fair.

Here is the link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1070228.0

[Havelivi]

I was reading the reddit article/post below the other day, and it seems even the "provably fair" system can be a false sense of security for gamblers more then anything else.

Post is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/

I'm NOT a coding expert, but if this post is true? my guess is most casinos are using it to bypass the "provably fair" system. 

Unfortunately when money is involved, extreme GREED always follows.

NLNico is an expert person here to explain about this what the wrote in that article because he has much knowledge about the provably fair mechanism, in my point of some online casinos using most advanced method to cheat the players and there is possibility to be get cheat by them while playing there.

[Operatr]

I was reading the reddit article/post below the other day, and it seems even the "provably fair" system can be a false sense of security for gamblers more then anything else.

Post is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/

I'm NOT a coding expert, but if this post is true? my guess is most casinos are using it to bypass the "provably fair" system.  

Unfortunately when money is involved, extreme GREED always follows.

Keepinquiet an user here in bitcointalk has been investigating different casino sites that use ''provably fair'' but in a way they could cheat, he already exposed a few of them and it seems like at least 50% of all the casinos advertised on this forum dont have the provably fair system implemented how it should be, however if the site did it right, there would be no way for them to cheat as far as i know.

I asked about this not long ago and people told me that there was no way if the system was really provably fair.

Here is the link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1070228.0

Thanks for the link! Yeah I figured this was the case, but I thought the number would actually be closer to 90% :-)

The fact that it's only 50% actually not too bad IMO ...lol Very interesting topic though.

[lexuz]

Sometimes i have question like your and thinking alone about provably fair. I dont know sometimes when i play casino its like got cheating
This why now im not play casino mini games

[lottoitaliano]

To the roulette live in live casino, i have see 3 time consecutive say the number 0 

For the 4 roll, i have play 0 and lost (win 22)

For me, the probability to say 1 number released is the same to other number

[XinXan]

To the roulette live in live casino, i have see 3 time consecutive say the number 0 

For the 4 roll, i have play 0 and lost (win 22)

For me, the probability to say 1 number released is the same to other number

its not about that, its about that some sites are actually cheating, of course four zeroes in a row its possible, its not any less possible than getting 1 - 2 - 3 - 4

The thing is that if you are going to a casino you know the risk but even with that they still cheat, it makes you mad.

[ssstand]

i know the perception can lie at some point, but while playing
the games on these sites i just feel that some point there be the cheat regardless
provably fair or not, because the game always happens something that could happen
but should not be so frequently.

As an example, i played roulette, and it usually happens to result a continued red
result, while i am betting on black and vice versa. If this happens just once for
a while i think it's ok, but this just happens so usually that caused my wonder...

i think only the game could play is dice game...

[Ingatqhvq]

I know it's provably fair, but this really makes me think if
there is any "special" mechanism beyond the screen.

This is not the first time happens to me, also there are
another things similar to this...

Every gambling site claim they are provably fair.
I also don't know how to know they are not liar.

[okae]

I know it's provably fair, but this really makes me think if
there is any "special" mechanism beyond the screen.

This is not the first time happens to me, also there are
another things similar to this...

haha i know how you fell beleive me.

in the end you will never know if all those sites are ''provably fair'', even if you win you will have that in your mind.

thats the problem, whatever you can read at reddit or somewhere you will never be 100% that is ''provably fair''...

Unfortunately when money is involved, extreme GREED always follows. [/size]

i cant say it better

[waterpile]

I know it's provably fair, but this really makes me think if
there is any "special" mechanism beyond the screen.

This is not the first time happens to me, also there are
another things similar to this...

Every gambling site claim they are provably fair.
I also don't know how to know they are not liar.

Well if you play you can just verify your rolls, if these sites claims that they're provably fair then they must atleast have the system posted somewhere inside the site.

[SyGambler]

I don't know what is this site , but you have to study their system
there is a possibility that they are playing with the results if for example you couldn't change the client seed
just do some researches about the site , you may find some people talking about the same thing
but we can't judge the site from this picture since there is a possibility to get the same number three times in a row
I got the same number two in a row playing dice which has smaller possibility of hitting the same numbe 3 in a row playing roulette
so it happens , but u need to check the ( provably fair ) your self to ensure that

[shanem]

Somehow I think there might a way for casinos to bypass the " provably fair " system.
It is unbelievable for you to lose a few times in a row when you bet almost all the numbers on the table.

[ssstand]

Somehow I think there might a way for casinos to bypass the " provably fair " system.
It is unbelievable for you to lose a few times in a row when you bet almost all the numbers on the table.

This is what happens, too. And actually we can verify the p.f. system, however we are not going
to do this over again and again while playing, i think the thing i will consider to do is intend to change
the client seed at every play ?

Is there any possibility to cheat beside the user dont change their client seed ?