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Author Topic: OPEN LETTER to Donald, Patrick & Amir RE: Bitcoinica  (Read 26549 times)
Nefario
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September 15, 2012, 10:40:43 PM
 #81

You should probably fly to London and place it in their hands in front of an audience.

So has anyone done this yet or what?

Yes. It was pretty funny.

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September 15, 2012, 10:50:40 PM
 #82

You should probably fly to London and place it in their hands in front of an audience.

So has anyone done this yet or what?

Yes. It was pretty funny.

You probably find it funny. I assure you that, as a creditor, that's not my opinion.

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lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)
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September 15, 2012, 10:52:18 PM
 #83

Donald, Amir, and Patrick need to sign this ASAP.
Unfortunately, my impression is that pleading will not change their position. I tried to talk to them, and exhausted all the approaches I could think of, apart from threatening them. But I'm not a specialist negotiator so maybe someone else will have better luck.
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September 15, 2012, 10:56:05 PM
 #84

You should probably fly to London and place it in their hands in front of an audience.

So has anyone done this yet or what?

Yes. It was pretty funny.

You can't just let that stand in the room. Give us all the nasty details.  Cheesy
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September 15, 2012, 10:56:14 PM
 #85

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Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.

That'd count as one (jurov). Get something straight: you're not in the WOT, you're not in bitcoin.

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September 15, 2012, 10:59:56 PM
 #86

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Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.

That'd count as one (juraj). Get something straight: you're not in the WOT, you're not in bitcoin.

 Roll Eyes

There's a lot more to bitcoin than this forum/wot.

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repentance
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September 15, 2012, 11:12:07 PM
 #87

For the record,  I have pleaded with the Intersango trio, both in person to Patrick Strateman,  and electronically to all three of them to sign something like this.
All three of them have refused to date.
I hope they reconsider, and do the right thing.

I still want my 23,000+ Bitcoins back!

Did they ever file an answer to the US lawsuit or are they ignoring that too?

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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September 16, 2012, 12:00:14 AM
 #88

Did they ever file an answer to the US lawsuit or are they ignoring that too?

They haven't yet responded to the lawsuit in California.

I spoke with Donald and Amir at the pre-conference dinner last night.  Donald accused me of spreading misinformation and refused to sign anything until Tihan releases him from his NDA, which will allow him to "bring out the truth".  Amir, was pretty stoic, had no comment on the matter other than that he didn't know what was right because he's a "programmer not a businessman", and that he'd do whatever the other guys told him to do.  Patrick was not present.

This morning, I gave legal service of process on behalf of Wendon to Amir and Patrick at the conference venue.  Donald was not present.

I have previously met with Patrick in San Francisco and, while this isn't saying much, he's probably the most sane of the group.  If this document Tihan has offered is going to get signed, it will require Patrick convincing Amir.

I've gotta say, I can't believe anyone who has ever met these guys would trust them with their money, much less someone else's money.

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repentance
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September 16, 2012, 12:22:23 AM
 #89

Donald accused me of spreading misinformation and refused to sign anything until Tihan releases him from his NDA, which will allow him to "bring out the truth".  Amir, was pretty stoic, had no comment on the matter other than that he didn't know what was right because he's a "programmer not a businessman", and that he'd do whatever the other guys told him to do.  Patrick was not present.

What a crock of shit.  He doesn't care about honouring any of his other legal obligations regarding Bitcoinica, so why does he feel obliged to uphold the NDA.

And yeah, Amir has taken the advice of the others regarding this mess right from the outset.  Unfortunately, when you're "not a businessman" but sign up for the legal responsibilities which come with directorships and partnerships, you're right in the legal firing line along with the actual "businessmen".

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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September 16, 2012, 12:30:29 AM
 #90

Donald accused me of spreading misinformation and refused to sign anything until Tihan releases him from his NDA, which will allow him to "bring out the truth".  Amir, was pretty stoic, had no comment on the matter other than that he didn't know what was right because he's a "programmer not a businessman", and that he'd do whatever the other guys told him to do.  Patrick was not present.

What a crock of shit.  He doesn't care about honouring any of his other legal obligations regarding Bitcoinica, so why does he feel obliged to uphold the NDA.

And yeah, Amir has taken the advice of the others regarding this mess right from the outset.  Unfortunately, when you're "not a businessman" but sign up for the legal responsibilities which come with directorships and partnerships, you're right in the legal firing line along with the actual "businessmen".

^ This.

This is the problem, no one wants to take liability!! No one ever did! Roger and I flew to California to meet with the lawyers, Tihan, Patrick, ect.

This letter that needs to be signed is the result of a meeting between all of us, including Patrick (who fully supported the idea by the way and said he would forece Amir and Donald to sign it)

Everyone at the conference needs to force Amir, Donald, and Patrick to sign this.

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repentance
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September 16, 2012, 12:41:59 AM
 #91


This letter that needs to be signed is the result of a meeting between all of us, including Patrick (who fully supported the idea by the way and said he would forece Amir and Donald to sign it)

Everyone at the conference needs to force Amir, Donald, and Patrick to sign this.


So why didn't Patrick sign there and then as a show of good faith?  There is no requirement that they all sign at the same time and in the same place.  I wouldn't rely on promises to "force" the others to sign when they're coming from someone who hasn't signed himself.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem


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September 16, 2012, 12:43:09 AM
 #92


This letter that needs to be signed is the result of a meeting between all of us, including Patrick (who fully supported the idea by the way and said he would forece Amir and Donald to sign it)

Everyone at the conference needs to force Amir, Donald, and Patrick to sign this.


So why didn't Patrick sign there and then as a show of good faith?  There is no requirement that they all sign at the same time and in the same place.  I wouldn't rely on promises to "force" the others to sign when they're coming from someone who hasn't signed himself.

The document wasn't ready until recently, but in hindsight we should have done this.

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repentance
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September 16, 2012, 12:56:25 AM
 #93

Why not end the NDA? Then he has nothing to hide behind right? Or is there something you don't want him to share?

Nobody with any balls worries about breaching an NDA when they're already facing being sued for everything except their first-born child.  Their reaction to everything else legal has been pretty much "BFD", so I don't buy that they're holding the NDA as something sacred.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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September 16, 2012, 01:12:51 AM
 #94

Patrick is forcing the other two? Roflcopter. Even now they are playing the blame game with each other. Patrick is the most deceptive person of the three as far as I've been following pages over pages of this mess for the past 3 months.
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September 16, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
 #95

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Everyone at the conference needs to force Amir, Donald, and Patrick to sign this.

You can't force people to sign things.

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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem


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September 16, 2012, 01:26:13 AM
 #96

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Everyone at the conference needs to force Amir, Donald, and Patrick to sign this.

You can't force people to sign things.

When I say force, I mean pressure. Take my words with a grain of salt.

Patrick is forcing the other two? Roflcopter. Even now they are playing the blame game with each other. Patrick is the most deceptive person of the three as far as I've been following pages over pages of this mess for the past 3 months.

I don't trust them either. He has lied to me more than once :/

Same here, but what other choice did we have? While everyone on the forum sits around and complaints, we actually wanted to be proactive and try something.

Why not end the NDA? Then he has nothing to hide behind right? Or is there something you don't want him to share?

I think the NDA thing is bullshit, they are using "We have an NDA" excuse to brush people away who approach them.

Tihan could easily put an NDA-void in this document, but I don't think it even crossed his mind to do so, if there is even an NDA

-Charlie

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repentance
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September 16, 2012, 01:50:52 AM
 #97

So Patrick could have signed this in front of people at the conference to show good faith and yet he didn't.  I seriously doubt that he'll try to persuade Amir and Donald to sign or co-operate with the liquidator either.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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September 16, 2012, 04:08:35 AM
 #98

So Patrick could have signed this in front of people at the conference to show good faith and yet he didn't.  I seriously doubt that he'll try to persuade Amir and Donald to sign or co-operate with the liquidator either.

I have repeatedly expressed to all parties that I will absolutely cooperate fully with a receiver or a liquidator.

It is genuinely my hope that everybody who is genuinely owed funds will receive as much as possible.

Until I have received competent legal advice on the matter I will not be signing anything presented by Tihan Seale.

Edit: Advice I am actively seeking.
guruvan
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September 16, 2012, 04:20:52 AM
 #99

And it continues to look like you're the one stonewalling the whole process, Patrick.

Patrick, maybe instead of "hoping" that customers might see some funds returned, just maybe, you could actually do something to help make that happen instead of doing your goddamned best to prevent it.

Please just quit the bickering and give us our money back, guys.

$500 - I'd be happy with some bitcoin - send to the address on my OTC account. Thanks.


repentance
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September 16, 2012, 04:25:15 AM
 #100


I have repeatedly expressed to all parties that I will absolutely cooperate fully with a receiver or a liquidator.

It is genuinely my hope that everybody who is genuinely owed funds will receive as much as possible.

Until I have received competent legal advice on the matter I will not be signing anything presented by Tihan Seale.

Edit: Advice I am actively seeking.

As I'm sure your own lawyer will advise you, it doesn't matter who drafts the resolution.  Your own lawyer can draft one.  It only needs to state that the parties agree to appoint a specified firm as liquidators and be signed and dated.  It's literally a two line statement which follows a standard format.  I very much doubt that anyone owed money cares whose lawyer drafts the resolution, but I'm sure people would support your own lawyer drafting it if it means that the liquidation can finally proceed without even more time being wasted by seeking a High Court order.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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