Greece Cannot Pay, Greece Will Not Pay

[techgeek]

If the rate of crime will continue to increase this it will be a very big problem for the Greece. Not only for the simple people which will be more unsure while going on the streets but for the economy too. The tourists will be less and less and the tourism is one of the major resources for the Greece. The Government need to solve quickly this problem without being returned big problem.

Its only a problem for greece, and the rest of the euro just watches while it crumbles.

And expect a payment of some form, I`d actually just cut my losses if I was the one of the bigger countries that lend the euro.

[dinofelis]

Why Greece don't leave the EU? it may the only way to avoid bankruptcy of the country.
                                                                                       

This is indeed something I can't wrap my mind around, why Tsipras didn't want to leave (but was trying to blackmail the rest of Europe with his Grexit, until, just after the referendum, this became a realistic option, and he got scared as hell).

Greece leaving would have been far far better for everybody, including Europe and Greece.

The only one saying that out load was Germany's finance minister, Schaeuble, and he got all the sins of Israel on his head for saying so.
 

[dinofelis]

And expect a payment of some form, I`d actually just cut my losses if I was the one of the bigger countries that lend the euro.

The point is that the leaders of those countries are not the owners of the debt: their country is.  The only thing that those leaders want to put safe is their next election.  If you "take your losses" (which would, from a business PoV, be indeed the most sensible thing to do), then YOU are the cullprit who is responsible for that loss.  If you can kick the can to your successor, then you might still win a few elections before it becomes impossible to kick the can.
So from a personal advantage PoV of a poltical leader, there's no benefit to be taken in taking the losses now.  You prefer having your country having larger losses, but later, when another dude has to face it.

It was for instance the main motivation for Frau Merkel.  She was facing the fact that at her next potential election, she would have to explain to the Germans that she "broke" Europe, and that she incurred a loss of about 80 billion Euros to Germany (which they already have lost, but can pretend to still own as long as Greece didn't default officially).

In that respect, Hollande, the French president, was more thoughtful of his country, which is also seriously indebted and fighting deficit: for him it was a dreamed-of occasion to try to shove all European debt in Germany's ass, France's included.

[Pab]

 Agree with you Dinofelis,but the reason to keep Greece in EuroZone and EU is also Greece geopolitical location
One big issue is,that even IMF,USA and even Mario Draghi were saying ,that debt reduction is needed,without that that money will not go to Greece economy and situation will repeat.It will be like that faster than in three years

[BIT-Sharon]

Like the Greek government who wastes money casually, and debts with people to live, and do not make efforts for improving themselves, leading to the fiscal deficits exploded. What could EU do? If Greece quits from eurozone, it would be the disaster of euro. The countries which are on their way up do not need to attend the defective currency system.

[TPTB_need_war]

Greece will default.

No it won't!

Your model of the goal and outcome is wrong. Read my my post at the following link:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082909.msg11937734#msg11937734

The entire EU will brought into debt crisis and only then will there be a monetary reset in a NWO slavery system.

Dumb ass European people can't even see what is so obvious to me since 2010 when I predicted this outcome.

[eerygarden]

No matter what caused it to happen.  I feel sorry for them, I see it getting even worse personally.

But watching lines of people in this day and age waiting in line to get money from ATM and are limited per day is scary.

I think thats the point. Its a message as to the consequences of a nation`s default. Conclusion = just keep borrowing (fear and insanity)

[Epileptic_Neurosurgeon]

The only responsible course of action for Merkel and EU is to heavily cut Greece's debt. Even if it wasn't for the fact that German and EU banks are partially responsible for the crisis with their irresponsible lending, it is as you said,  Greece cannot pay. They can either continue their draconian austerity measures and repayment demands which will cause further destabilization and harm Greece's economy even more, or accept the very real fact that Greece simply cannot pay, cut their losses and move on.

[Mickeyb]

Well at the end, either will the debt be cut by the EU countries or the Greece will go down the drain and leave the Euro zone and EU completely. Their debt is unsustainable and that has been calculated.

Other thing is that this fact above nobody wants to admit, so expect in 5 years yet another chaos.

[crazy-pilot]

Apart from Simpel math, they do not keep their word, as they've shown with the loans what were handed out last time. The general population of Greece is complaining, comparing it even to the Holocaust which is ignorant. It's their government that is screwing things up, they agree to terms, get the money and just setup a new governing structure. Thank you for the money.

As for tax and minimum wages, they've had it way better than most other EU countries. And they are doing fine.

The 'rich'  countries have had to cut even deeper, the Netherlands raised their tax to 21% long ago, my income tax is at 50% while my health insurance, and electricity has tripled.

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[OROBTC]

...

crazy-pilot

There is no doubt that you are right, at least in part.  Greece has a very irresponsible borrower in recent years, defaulting a number of times.

Yes, there is other blame to go around (Germany, the Troika, Goldman-Sachs, etc.), but Greece itself bears a lot of the blame for their situation.

[Pab]

 Last data about Europe public debt
Eurozone public debt is 94.5% to GDP
Greece public debt is 165% to GDP,decreasing

Itaty public debt is 135%to GDP,increasing
France 97% increasing very fast
Germany 74% decreasing slowly

All EU countries pubic debt is 84%

any new born child in EU is in  debt

Welcome in Europe

[Amph]

Last data about Europe public debt
Eurozone public debt is 94.5% to GDP
Greece public debt is 165% to GDP,decreasing

Itaty public debt is 135%to GDP,increasing
France 97% increasing very fast
Germany 74% decreasing slowly

All EU countries pubic debt is 84%

any new born child in EU is in  debt

Welcome in Europe

yeah the problem is not only with greece it's the whole fucking eu that is in debt, if other country are smart enough or at least their citizens, should start buying in something valuable in the future like bitcoin or if they prefer gold, which is tanking, maybe a good opportunity to buy

instead i'm sure that they will wait to reach the conditions of greece before moving their ass, while they repeat that they are not at danger like the greece

[Pab]

 Word exit can be most popular word of time,look what is going on in Europe
Grexit,soon Gexit referendum in GB to leave EU,Italy exit,today Beppe Grippo posted to nationalise banks,exit from euro and use Italy debt like weapon against Germany.He is using Greece like an example whatcan happen in Italy.FranceExit.Jean Marie Le Pen who has big chance to be next France president,Cataluna exit
there are lcal elaction in Spain,iit will be combined with referendum to separate Cataluna from Spain.If separatist party will win,Cataluna may separate from Spain in 18 months.Cataluna is most wealthy area in Spain,and there isalready enugh for them to pay for Madrid frauds

Upcoming elections in 2015,Spain,Portugal,Poland,maybe Greece,and just after France,Germany,Italy

How will  looks like that post Greece world in Europe,people are watching and thay will call for change.Finally thay see that they are pay for all of that and nobody never  asked them did thay agree to pay

[bryant.coleman]

yeah the problem is not only with greece it's the whole fucking eu that is in debt, if other country are smart enough or at least their citizens, should start buying in something valuable in the future like bitcoin or if they prefer gold, which is tanking, maybe a good opportunity to buy

More than 90% of the world nations are in debt. Only a select few are free from government debt (rich nations such as Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Qatar). The governments are spending more than their overall tax revenues, and that is the reason why the debt is climbing. But most of the government spending is not reaching the tax payers. It is used for bank bailouts, warfare.etc

This can't go on forever.

[eerygarden]

yeah the problem is not only with greece it's the whole fucking eu that is in debt, if other country are smart enough or at least their citizens, should start buying in something valuable in the future like bitcoin or if they prefer gold, which is tanking, maybe a good opportunity to buy

More than 90% of the world nations are in debt. Only a select few are free from government debt (rich nations such as Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Qatar). The governments are spending more than their overall tax revenues, and that is the reason why the debt is climbing. But most of the government spending is not reaching the tax payers. It is used for bank bailouts, warfare.etc

This can't go on forever.

I dont know. Debt is just a number and numbers can go on forever.

[Amph]

yeah the problem is not only with greece it's the whole fucking eu that is in debt, if other country are smart enough or at least their citizens, should start buying in something valuable in the future like bitcoin or if they prefer gold, which is tanking, maybe a good opportunity to buy

More than 90% of the world nations are in debt. Only a select few are free from government debt (rich nations such as Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Qatar). The governments are spending more than their overall tax revenues, and that is the reason why the debt is climbing. But most of the government spending is not reaching the tax payers. It is used for bank bailouts, warfare.etc

This can't go on forever.

I dont know. Debt is just a number and numbers can go on forever.

well the current crisis begs to differ, apparently it can't go forever, greece is the primarely example of the euro that is struggling against usd, usd isn't actually rising it's all the other that are falling...

usd did not lost so much probably because it was(and still it is) the number one among fiat

[eerygarden]

yeah the problem is not only with greece it's the whole fucking eu that is in debt, if other country are smart enough or at least their citizens, should start buying in something valuable in the future like bitcoin or if they prefer gold, which is tanking, maybe a good opportunity to buy

More than 90% of the world nations are in debt. Only a select few are free from government debt (rich nations such as Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Qatar). The governments are spending more than their overall tax revenues, and that is the reason why the debt is climbing. But most of the government spending is not reaching the tax payers. It is used for bank bailouts, warfare.etc

This can't go on forever.

I dont know. Debt is just a number and numbers can go on forever.

well the current crisis begs to differ, apparently it can't go forever, greece is the primarely example of the euro that is struggling against usd, usd isn't actually rising it's all the other that are falling...

usd did not lost so much probably because it was(and still it is) the number one among fiat

What is the debt to GDP of Greece that the papers spew out? 165% or something like that? One day they could be reporting 9000% debt to GDP. They may need to abandon reporting GDP soon and come up with a new measure. At what point will the masses realise that there is no hope? I concur that it feels like it is approaching, I have long since accepted that the national debt problem is a mathematical impossibility. It feels like such a slow creep though. Can but wait.

[eerygarden]

More than 90% of the world nations are in debt. Only a select few are free from government debt (rich nations such as Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Qatar).

How are Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Qatar debt free? How do they manage their currency. No usury?

[g1974ak]

For sure Greece will not be able to pay. Not only this credit that Tsipras will have ultimately but even another more bigger will help. To pay the debt Greece must have an economy that produce for itself and for paid the credits. But the economy of Greece is devastated by the lasts governments because the Greece politicians who governed Greece thought for their momentarily interests and not for the best of their country.