EskimoBob is a scammer, witness reports inside

[vampire]

I accused bakewell of what? Quote please. You probably don't understand the English I used. Do you understand English? I am an English teacher. I'll help you for free.

I actually have OTC ratings for helping people with their English, BTW. Would you like me to spell it out for you?

You're an english teacher, not a financial genius. Thanks for pointing that out - you should teach people then and NOT pocket people's savings. Your English teacher would love to see how you can't express yourself without using foul language.

Let's check BAKEWELL:

Income is 6BTC/week, the valuation is 312BTC (I don't even bother to include difficulty adjustment). This is a standard industry valuation practice - 1x yearly revenue.

So the valuation is 0.05 per share, and what did you say:

So, what's BAKEWELL worth? Logic would tell you, it's worth .15. Why not, that's what he's selling shares at, and he does need to finish his IPO. If his shares were not worth .15, say... if they were worth .1343, why would anyone pay .15? They wouldn't. In fact, one might even accuse Ian Bakewell.... of scamming!

https://glbse.com/api/quantity_trading/BAKEWELL - Total: 5928 shares.

[vampire]

I should probably mention you did not account for the underlying assets in that valuation.
I make all my financials available in the third post of my thread & I try to stay as current as possible.

Assets are useless in 1x annual revenue valuation..

If you just take the assets from the 3rd post of your thread, though it's confusing:

Cash: 4027.63CAD or 333.41 BTC
Trust: 4BTC
BTC: 124 (Total funds raised: 503.7 BTC - 375BTC converted to CAN and -4 BTC trust)
Hardware: nothing

Total: 461.41BTC

Total: 0.078BTC per share, not that far from 0.05BTC valuation with 1x yearly revenue.


It was usagi that brought you into the picture, personally I don't care about mining operations.

[vampire]

Sorry, where do I accuse him of scamming? I don't see it.

Apparently no one else does either, including Ian Bakewell. What are you, retarded? This is almost as dumb as when you accused me of lying because I used an alias on the forums instead of my real name. Sheesh

You said if his shares aren't worth 0.15, one might accuse him of scamming?

So did you say that?

[vampire]

You have made many assumptions in those posts that are easily corrected / would not have been made, if the poster actually had knowledge of my asset.

tldr; When in doubt, do not use others in a poor example.

What are the assumptions?

a) You sell shares at 0.15
b) Your current assets divided per share are 0.077
c) Your future evaluation is 0.05, since you dont fucking mine right now moron.
d) Intelligent people would never invest into your company.


edit:

Now where da fuck 50% of the invested money went to? Why they aren't part of assets?

edit2:

I see: he basically takes 20% (founders stake) into his pocket and another 30% into his an another pocket (growth and maintenance). Growth and maintenance fund should be company owned and listed on assets.

[vampire]

Do I get to call you a moron now?

Look at the share distribution part of the contract, it is up at the top.

You already did. Or you don't know what moron means?

Usagi may have brought me into it, but if you are going to make a comment, please do so intelligently and after actually reading the BAKEWELL thread.

And read the edit2.

[vampire]

They are listed as assets, they are not held in the company portfolio so that they show on the quantity trading.

Who owns the growth and maintenance fund? You or the company.

If the company then the fund should be listed in your post.

[vampire]

I will work to clarify this part, thank you for raising the concern.

You can start by spelling M&G out, since I had no idea what was that.

You contract says "growth and maintenance", so it would be G&M.

Now lets update the current evaluation, I assume G&M owned by company:

0.10 / per share. Effective loss of 31% for investors.

[Maged]

I have to say, day 3 of this has been pretty intense. Several times, each side had me pretty well conviced that they were in the right, so I'd consider this to be a pretty lively discussion that I am proud to have directed, despite its unfortunate beginings.

Usagi piggipacked his absurd demands on a buy back of BMF shares and now is accusing of a scam. He is mad at me because I and many others are not happy what is happening in BMF and in other portfolios under his management.

This seems like a valid concern. Could you elaborate on why you feel like usagi should have bought back your BMF shares above market value? Also, what value per share, exactly, do you think you deserved to be offered if these "absurd demands" weren't included?

I actually never asked him to sell me the shares back. He made that offer to me, after I told him I am not happy with the current situation and he sold me the shares under the false representation of current situation in BMF.

If you read the log, I never really agreed to any of his rantings freely. He never mentioned, that his yelling of STFU, mixed with insults is some type of a contract. All I wanted now (because he made a unexpected offer) is get out of this crap called BMF and get my coin back.
When he started counting seconds, I asked, "do I need to repeat that Yes?". I had lost all the trust I in this scumbag and a liar, who has obvious memory problems (selective memory?). I wanted to sell my shares back to him and that is what my Yes stands for - Yes, I am transferring you the shares. Nothing less, nothing more.
I do not see contract here. I see just another rant of his, where he calls me with names and adds his "shut the fuck up..." or else.   
I do not sell my silence, my support to some bullshit, I do not write my opinions about incompetent "portfolio managers" for coin and so on.

What are people's opinions of this specific statement? I want to hear what people think, regardless of your relation to the case. Yes, even you guys that are silently lurking in this thread.

[deeplink]

Buying silence goes against everything I believe in. We wouldn't be were we are if it weren't for critical people.

This board was build on free speech and at present that is needed more than before: shady businesses are thriving here. People have to be warned for that any way possible.

In this particular case: Bob is right for speaking up and warning people of Usagi and his "investment" funds.

[BadBear]

Buying silence goes against everything I believe in. We wouldn't be were we are if it weren't for critical people.

This board was build on free speech and at present that is needed more than before: shady businesses are thriving here. People have to be warned for that any way possible.

In this particular case: Bob is right for speaking up and warning people of Usagi and his "investment" funds.

I agree. I don't think it's the forum's place to enforce such a contract, or punish based on them. Regardless of whatever agreement someone may have, I still feel that people have the fundamental right to express themselves, and I'm not going to take that away on the whims of Usagi or whoever the next person is that tries this. Personally, I will choose not to moderate such requests.

[deadserious]

I may not have any pull here, but based on my reading of this entire thread, my opinion is that yes, EskimoBob sold his silence and has broken the contract, but a contract like this should have been offered and probably can't be enforced. 

It is legal (though probably not constitutional) in the USA to pay off for silence (and it's done all of the time), but the contracts to do so are much more detailed and specific than the simple condition expressed in the forum.  If you really wanted to buy his silence, you should have drafted a real contract and NDA, properly negotiated the terms, signed and notarized.

If you really wanted to stick it to him, you could file in small claims court against him.  The likelihood of him showing up is small and you could probably get a default judgement in your favor without ever having to argue the details of the contract.  But my recommendation, even though you didn't specifically ask it of me... just write it up to a life lesson, refuse his business in the future and move on. 

[augustocroppo]

Usagi piggipacked his absurd demands on a buy back of BMF shares and now is accusing of a scam. He is mad at me because I and many others are not happy what is happening in BMF and in other portfolios under his management.

This seems like a valid concern. Could you elaborate on why you feel like usagi should have bought back your BMF shares above market value? Also, what value per share, exactly, do you think you deserved to be offered if these "absurd demands" weren't included?

I actually never asked him to sell me the shares back. He made that offer to me, after I told him I am not happy with the current situation and he sold me the shares under the false representation of current situation in BMF.

Usagi did not offer to sell any BMF shares back to EskimoBob, but to buy the shares back from EskimoBob. This is a false statement.

If you read the log, I never really agreed to any of his rantings freely. He never mentioned, that his yelling of STFU, mixed with insults is some type of a contract. All I wanted now (because he made a unexpected offer) is get out of this crap called BMF and get my coin back.

Get out of what? Is EskimoBob not already out? Usagi already bought back all EskimoBob BMF shares.  EskimoBob once again is making a contradictory statement. EskimoBob agreed several times with Usagi terms to sell back the BMF shares:

Code:

[21:53:54] <EskimoBob> yes, you can have that shit, you ling sack of shit
[21:56:17] <EskimoBob> you can have your shit. Good you remembered
[21:57:35] <EskimoBob> yes
[22:01:46] <EskimoBob> do I need to repeat that Yes?
[22:02:40] <EskimoBob> wht, 2 x Yes in not good enough?
[22:07:39] <EskimoBob> usagi: HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU NEED ME TO TELL YOU "YES"?
[22:07:42] <EskimoBob> YES

When he started counting seconds, I asked, "do I need to repeat that Yes?". I had lost all the trust I in this scumbag and a liar, who has obvious memory problems (selective memory?). I wanted to sell my shares back to him and that is what my Yes stands for - Yes, I am transferring you the shares. Nothing less, nothing more.

I do not see contract here. I see just another rant of his, where he calls me with names and adds his "shut the fuck up..." or else.  
I do not sell my silence, my support to some bullshit, I do not write my opinions about incompetent "portfolio managers" for coin and so on.

Usagi did not ask EskimoBob to support his business. Usagi explicitly required EskimoBob to remain neutral about his business. At no moment was EskimoBob required to write anything about Usagi's business. This is a completely redundant statement.

What are people's opinions of this specific statement? I want to hear what people think, regardless of your relation to the case. Yes, even you guys that are silently lurking in this thread.

Maged, you made two important questions to EskimoBob and he was not able to answer either. Instead of EskimoBob providing a coherent answer explaining how much the shares should worth if the "absurd demands" were not included, EskimoBob decided to play the victim and write off misleading statements. EskimoBob sold back to Usagi the shares above the market price under certain conditions and now EskimoBob is afraid to return the difference. Thus, EskimoBob is trying to evade your judgement since you have already indicated that EskimoBob was overpaid by Usagi.

[EskimoBob]

so now we are "EskimoBob seems to have..."?
This whole thread has grown lot bigger and wider. Now it's all about the scamm you are pulling. Only way I'll (and many others) will shut up is if you stop scamming your investors (including me, btw), manipulating share prices with fake news and promises "to do blaaah..." and stop lying in your absurdly inaccurate spreadsheets that are used to calculate the NAV and are published in your website and here in the forum for portfolios under your (mis)management.
If you like to talk about who scammed who, then the real scammer here is actually you.
anyone who has little time to dig in to your "News" and calculations can see, how you constantly lie to everyone in this from who read your BS.
I think this is 3rd time I ask you to show me a post where I lie about your imaginary companies (investment portfolios).
How can I stop doing something that I have never done? How can I "stop ling" if I have not lied?

[EskimoBob]

I actually never asked him to sell me the shares back. He made that offer to me, after I told him I am not happy with the current situation and he sold me the shares under the false representation of current situation in BMF.

Usagi did not offer to sell any BMF shares back to EskimoBob, but to buy the shares back from EskimoBob. This is a false statement.

You are correct and I think this error from me was corrected by someone. Usagi offered to BUY the shares from me.

[EskimoBob]

And here is something you really have to read to understand what is going on and why some of the forum members (including me) can not just STFU when ordered in IRC or anywhere else.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113708.0

 

[pyrkne]

I have to say, day 3 of this has been pretty intense. Several times, each side had me pretty well conviced that they were in the right, so I'd consider this to be a pretty lively discussion that I am proud to have directed, despite its unfortunate beginings.

Usagi piggipacked his absurd demands on a buy back of BMF shares and now is accusing of a scam. He is mad at me because I and many others are not happy what is happening in BMF and in other portfolios under his management.

This seems like a valid concern. Could you elaborate on why you feel like usagi should have bought back your BMF shares above market value? Also, what value per share, exactly, do you think you deserved to be offered if these "absurd demands" weren't included?

I actually never asked him to sell me the shares back. He made that offer to me, after I told him I am not happy with the current situation and he sold me the shares under the false representation of current situation in BMF.

If you read the log, I never really agreed to any of his rantings freely. He never mentioned, that his yelling of STFU, mixed with insults is some type of a contract. All I wanted now (because he made a unexpected offer) is get out of this crap called BMF and get my coin back.
When he started counting seconds, I asked, "do I need to repeat that Yes?". I had lost all the trust I in this scumbag and a liar, who has obvious memory problems (selective memory?). I wanted to sell my shares back to him and that is what my Yes stands for - Yes, I am transferring you the shares. Nothing less, nothing more.
I do not see contract here. I see just another rant of his, where he calls me with names and adds his "shut the fuck up..." or else.   
I do not sell my silence, my support to some bullshit, I do not write my opinions about incompetent "portfolio managers" for coin and so on.

What are people's opinions of this specific statement? I want to hear what people think, regardless of your relation to the case. Yes, even you guys that are silently lurking in this thread.

If that back-and-forth can be construed as a contract, I think we're in trouble.

[augustocroppo]

And here is something you really have to read to understand what is going on and why some of the forum members (including me) can not just STFU when ordered in IRC or anywhere else.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113708.0

Are you assuming that we, the readers of this thread, are not using our reading comprehension with appropriate discernment to review your case? Usagi inability to handle financial mathematics is not evidence to support your defense in this thread. You are not even the original claimant of that thread. So you do not have any evidence against Usagi here, except your own misleading statements.

[EskimoBob]

And here is something you really have to read to understand what is going on and why some of the forum members (including me) can not just STFU when ordered in IRC or anywhere else.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113708.0

Are you assuming that we, the readers of this thread, are not using our reading comprehension with appropriate discernment to review your case? Usagi inability to handle financial mathematics is not evidence to support your defense in this thread. You are not even the original claimant of that thread. So you do not have any evidence against Usagi here, except your own misleading statements.

nice try augustocroppo. I am nor sure who is the "we" you represent. Never mind. This link has lots of background and shows what has been going on and why usagi hates me with passion.  I guess if you know it by now anyways, the link is useless and really ads nothing.

[danieldaniel]

<stuff>
If that back-and-forth can be construed as a contract, I think we're in trouble.

I agree with this.  I don't think it's necessarily right for him to break the "contract", but it wasn't a contract in the first place.  I don't even think it was an agreement. 

If I'm missing anything, don't take any offense.

[Maged]

After much back and forth, I feel that I've come to a reasonable decision: EskimoBob will not be getting a scammer tag for this issue, at least from me. There are a few key reasons for this:

1) I feel that there are too many unknown in this case, in both the agreement and in usagi's actions. I cannot support giving someone the scammer tag if I'm not 100% sure.

2) I agree with this judgement:

I side with Bob, simply because I find the literal idea of buying silence ... I don't know the words, but I do not like it.
If that part of the deal was fairly assigned value, then I think he should send that part back and be done with it.
The issue with assigning a value to the silence part, would be assuming Bob took it as payment for that in the first place.

Would I have been an observer in the live chat, I would have assumed Usagi was overpaying, and doing so to shut Bob up, but not in the literal sense of a scammer tag, more in the line of, "the customer is always right, heres your refund, get out of my store... I have better things to do" you know, like most retail places will "shut you up" should you be unhappy and loud.

With the silence part not being absolutely clear, it's hard to know whether the difference in the market price vs what was offered was just a goodwill concession or not.

It is legal (though probably not constitutional) in the USA to pay off for silence (and it's done all of the time), but the contracts to do so are much more detailed and specific than the simple condition expressed in the forum.  If you really wanted to buy his silence, you should have drafted a real contract and NDA, properly negotiated the terms, signed and notarized.

If you really wanted to stick it to him, you could file in small claims court against him.  The likelihood of him showing up is small and you could probably get a default judgement in your favor without ever having to argue the details of the contract.  But my recommendation, even though you didn't specifically ask it of me... just write it up to a life lesson, refuse his business in the future and move on. 

Again, I agree with this.

Maged, you made two important questions to EskimoBob and he was not able to answer either. Instead of EskimoBob providing a coherent answer explaining how much the shares should worth if the "absurd demands" were not included, EskimoBob decided to play the victim and write off misleading statements. EskimoBob sold back to Usagi the shares above the market price under certain conditions and now EskimoBob is afraid to return the difference. Thus, EskimoBob is trying to evade your judgement since you have already indicated that EskimoBob was overpaid by Usagi.

No, he answered the questions very well, in my opinion.

3) It is very clear that usagi has been posting misleading statements. It may not be enough for a scammer tag, but it's pretty damn close.

Neither side in this case has been particularly blamless, but I don't feel that anybody has acted in a manner befitting of a scammer tag. I'd like to give my thanks for all of the people who gave their opinions

I appologize if this post isn't up to my usual standards in it's explaination, but I was highly distracted while writing it. Rest assured, however, that I was not distracted when I made my decision.