vampire
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September 25, 2012, 09:05:33 PM |
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In case you missed it, I'm already defending you against that (no consideration, no contract), but really your responses are a bit over the top and irrelevant. Sure defend yourself on what usagi's saying, but I don't see the point in trying to "expose" zher. It just looks ranty.
It's possible. I am not a god. Though for you, I am a god.. Pray to me or I'll bite you ;-)
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vampire
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September 25, 2012, 11:39:17 PM |
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Several people who were in the channel agree.
Several people don't. However you agreed to the terms and then you fragrantly broke them.
Channel? huh. Wake up.
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CJGoodings
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 26, 2012, 02:39:48 AM |
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Several people who were in the channel agree.
Several people don't. However you agreed to the terms and then you fragrantly broke them.
Channel? huh. Wake up. I think hes mentioning IRC.
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Maged
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September 26, 2012, 02:49:13 AM |
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This is a very interesting case, indeed. Thus, I'll split my post into two parts: One regarding this individual agreement on its own, and the other based on a broader view of things.
Part one: Unless there is any objection to the log that was posted, it seems pretty clear that the original agreement should be considered void. Fjordbit has a good point, however, in that the silence portion should have its own value. Thus I would like to see one of the two following outcomes: 1) EskimoBob refunds 5.3 BTC and the shares are returned to him. No, he will not need to pay the original escrow fee. The reason he should not have to pay the escrow fee is because usagi agreed to pay the fee himself, instead of asking EskimoBob to split the fee with him or at least including the escrow fee as a penalty should the agreement be broken. Additionally, the escrow failed to follow the agreement all the way through by releasing the funds immediately instead of waiting an agreed upon amount of time to ensure that the agreement was kept by BOTH parties. This is besides the fact that it is not legal to indefinitely buy someone's silence. However, I think that we can all agree that EskimoBob did not stay silent long enough to be considered reasonable by anyone's standards. 2) EskimoBob refunds the difference between the market value of those shares at the time of the agreement and the value he sold them to usagi for (.53 BTC/share) and usagi provides nothing in return (other than the satisfaction that the agreement was successfully unwound). It's safe to assume that this difference was the agreed upon value of silence for EskimoBob.
Part two: Here's where things get interesting. It is board policy that, in order to help scammer investigations, NDA's and other such agreements will not be honored for the purpose of the scammer tag when the agreements are broken in order to reveal a scam. Interestingly enough, this seems like it might be the case. I will absolutely need to do more reading into this. If anybody can help shed some light on the issue of usagi allegedly investing BMF funds into non-mining operations, I would appreciate that.
There's also the matter of where the funds used to pay EskimoBob came from. Did they come from a business that was in default? If so, that automatically makes usagi a scammer, placing EskimoBob off the hook.
For these reasons, it will most likely take a few weeks to decide this case. If EskimoBob wants to make it easy on me, he can simply do one of the two options I laid out in part one. As always, the scammer tag decision does not have anything to do with the actual legal system, so keep that in mind when deciding what to do.
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macboy80
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September 26, 2012, 03:43:43 AM |
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This is a very interesting case, indeed. Thus, I'll split my post into two parts: One regarding this individual agreement on its own, and the other based on a broader view of things.
Part one: Unless there is any objection to the log that was posted, it seems pretty clear that the original agreement should be considered void. Fjordbit has a good point, however, in that the silence portion should have its own value. Thus I would like to see one of the two following outcomes: 1) EskimoBob refunds 5.3 BTC and the shares are returned to him. No, he will not need to pay the original escrow fee. The reason he should not have to pay the escrow fee is because usagi agreed to pay the fee himself, instead of asking EskimoBob to split the fee with him or at least including the escrow fee as a penalty should the agreement be broken. Additionally, the escrow failed to follow the agreement all the way through by releasing the funds immediately instead of waiting an agreed upon amount of time to ensure that the agreement was kept by BOTH parties. This is besides the fact that it is not legal to indefinitely buy someone's silence. However, I think that we can all agree that EskimoBob did not stay silent long enough to be considered reasonable by anyone's standards. 2) EskimoBob refunds the difference between the market value of those shares at the time of the agreement and the value he sold them to usagi for (.53 BTC/share) and usagi provides nothing in return (other than the satisfaction that the agreement was successfully unwound). It's safe to assume that this difference was the agreed upon value of silence for EskimoBob.
Part two: Here's where things get interesting. It is board policy that, in order to help scammer investigations, NDA's and other such agreements will not be honored for the purpose of the scammer tag when the agreements are broken in order to reveal a scam. Interestingly enough, this seems like it might be the case. I will absolutely need to do more reading into this. If anybody can help shed some light on the issue of usagi allegedly investing BMF funds into non-mining operations, I would appreciate that.
There's also the matter of where the funds used to pay EskimoBob came from. Did they come from a business that was in default? If so, that automatically makes usagi a scammer, placing EskimoBob off the hook.
For these reasons, it will most likely take a few weeks to decide this case. If EskimoBob wants to make it easy on me, he can simply do one of the two options I laid out in part one. As always, the scammer tag decision does not have anything to do with the actual legal system, so keep that in mind when deciding what to do.
Well said! I think this is a fair outcome for everyone involved.
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EskimoBob
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September 26, 2012, 08:57:26 AM |
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This is a very interesting case, indeed. Thus, I'll split my post into two parts: One regarding this individual agreement on its own, and the other based on a broader view of things.
Part one: Unless there is any objection to the log that was posted, it seems pretty clear that the original agreement should be considered void. Fjordbit has a good point, however, in that the silence portion should have its own value. Thus I would like to see one of the two following outcomes: 1) EskimoBob refunds 5.3 BTC and the shares are returned to him. No, he will not need to pay the original escrow fee. The reason he should not have to pay the escrow fee is because usagi agreed to pay the fee himself, instead of asking EskimoBob to split the fee with him or at least including the escrow fee as a penalty should the agreement be broken. Additionally, the escrow failed to follow the agreement all the way through by releasing the funds immediately instead of waiting an agreed upon amount of time to ensure that the agreement was kept by BOTH parties. This is besides the fact that it is not legal to indefinitely buy someone's silence. However, I think that we can all agree that EskimoBob did not stay silent long enough to be considered reasonable by anyone's standards. 2) EskimoBob refunds the difference between the market value of those shares at the time of the agreement and the value he sold them to usagi for (.53 BTC/share) and usagi provides nothing in return (other than the satisfaction that the agreement was successfully unwound). It's safe to assume that this difference was the agreed upon value of silence for EskimoBob.
Part two: Here's where things get interesting. It is board policy that, in order to help scammer investigations, NDA's and other such agreements will not be honored for the purpose of the scammer tag when the agreements are broken in order to reveal a scam. Interestingly enough, this seems like it might be the case. I will absolutely need to do more reading into this. If anybody can help shed some light on the issue of usagi allegedly investing BMF funds into non-mining operations, I would appreciate that.
There's also the matter of where the funds used to pay EskimoBob came from. Did they come from a business that was in default? If so, that automatically makes usagi a scammer, placing EskimoBob off the hook.
For these reasons, it will most likely take a few weeks to decide this case. If EskimoBob wants to make it easy on me, he can simply do one of the two options I laid out in part one. As always, the scammer tag decision does not have anything to do with the actual legal system, so keep that in mind when deciding what to do.
Shares Market PricTotal M V GIGAMINING 0 0,63979999 0 BITBOND 10 0,33510001 3,351 PUREMINING 0 0 YABMC 0 0 DMC < not mining 1291 0,010005 12,91646 BTC-MINING 300 0,9598 287,94 RSM 210 0,29 60,9 JAH 410 0,12 49,2 007 11 0,115 1,265 ABM 200 0,125 25 BMMO 3775 0,0200001 75,50038 MERGEDMINING 0 0,07979999 0 BTCMC 170 0,4001 68,017 BFLS.RIG 200 0,6 120 UDN 1000 0,03498999 34,98999 LTC-MINING 50 0,415 20,75 FPGAMINING 300 0,37 111 OBSI.HRPT < not mining 1000 0,06 60 JTME 120 0,7898899 94,78679 ASICMINER 0 0,1169 0 BIF.5-10.MININGBOND 120 0,33 39,6 NYAN < Not mining 24 0,799 19,176 BAKEWELL 330 0,10500001 34,65 BTC-BOND 4800 0,009 43,2 1162,24261 4594 NAV (va rig 0,25299
Prices are from today, list of investments is from 20.09.2012 (at least this is the date on his page http://tsukino.ca/bmf/holdings-nav/) BMF contract: 5. The fund is mandated to only invest in bitcoin mining companies listed on the GLBSE and to perform due diligence when investing in securities on the GLBSE. I also have a screenshot and those holdings are reported earlier in the forum post. I recommend reading complaints after the post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112734.msg1219645#msg1219645So, who is scamming who? Usagi piggipacked his absurd demands on a buy back of BMF shares and now is accusing of a scam. He is mad at me because I and many others are not happy what is happening in BMF and in other portfolios under his management. I am not the only one here, who has shown what he has actually done with the investors coin.
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While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head. BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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EskimoBob
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 26, 2012, 09:01:30 AM |
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Thank you and I accept. Here is my response;
1. If EskimoBob returns the 5.3 BTC I will give him the 10 shares. 2. If EskimoBob refunds the difference (about 1 BTC at today's price) I will accept it. 3. I am willing to give you a signed statement from Nefario (if I can get one) on the holdings of BMF. BMF is not in default. 4. Please see this motion which authorizes me to invest up to 10% of BMF in non-mining assets. This motion was passed 3235 to 5 and is valid until Jan 1st, 2013. 5. I am willing to run a shareholder motion on whether or not my shareholders in BMF are satisfied. People like EskimoBob have no right to make up facts and figures. They're not shareholders.
The entire point of this thread, Maged, is that people like Eskimobob are complete and total jerkoffs who are truly ruining it for people who are trying to operate an honest business.
Personally I do not want to make it easy on EskimoBob. This has now gone far above and beyond a simple scammer tag. He has now insinuated that he is being paid to discredit me on the forums, and his posting style is, I believe similar to Puppet, who incidentally registered on the forums shortly after EskimoBob was approached to make posts on the forum discrediting people. I am sick of this. I will work with you and provide any information you want. I do not want this to be resolved by the simple payment of 1 btc from EskimoBob to myself. It is my position that the fact you are stating that he can return the approximately one BTC difference implies that the silence part did in fact have a value attached. I do not think it is fair to say that no value was stated, and then to assign a value solely for the purposes of refunding the money. But if that is your judgement I will accept it. Thank you.
Get the logs and prove me puppet or whom ever you think it is me. My level of English is way too low to write like any of those guys. YOU, Usagi are the one who offered me this disgusting "job" and I told you NO!
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While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head. BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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EskimoBob
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September 26, 2012, 10:31:42 AM |
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Usagi, calm down. You act like a hysterical troll.
Those are "last price" from GLBSE and I had no reason to edit the numbers. I only posted that part of the portfolio, what was relevant to Maged post.
You and I know you fucked up. Other investors are pissed off too. So, stop trolling and blaming me for your screwups and take the responsibility for your own actions. I quoted the contract from your own web page and I there is no reference to any "motion" that is passed or not passed. Your contract is called "Full Contract". I guess it's another small half truth of yours, similar to calling your own hysterical rants in IRC a contract.
Maged, here is my account 1CvZLqdL5qpiE1wt9BLGC75yfV9Sg69WTj he transfered the via 3'rd party. I have no idea, did he use his or BMF's account for this.
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While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head. BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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VeeMiner
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 26, 2012, 10:37:27 AM |
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Lol what sort of immature bullshit is this?
+1
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MPOE-PR
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 26, 2012, 11:27:33 AM |
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Also this ridiculous "job offer" is probably something mircea asked you to do. Notice the dates everyone -- right after EskimoBob got this "job offer" numerous sock puppet accounts such as puppet and deprived started following me around on the forums. Fucking mircea popescu. Sics his MPOE-PR agent on me too. Get a life people.
![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Flounge.moviecodec.com%2Fimages%2Fattachment%2Fdarth-vader-vs-darth-reven-vs-darth-nihilus-153.jpg&t=665&c=jHiTo5YTO3FaGw)
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EskimoBob
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September 26, 2012, 11:32:21 AM |
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I like to ask forum moderator to rename the this form thread to: "Usagi is a scammer, witness reports inside", close the thread and tag Usagi as a scammer.
I never planned to tag you Usagi, even after all this bull shit. Now, you left me no choice. Are you happy now?
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While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head. BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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Bitcoin Oz
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 26, 2012, 12:28:34 PM |
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Days of our bitcoin lives.
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Puppet
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September 26, 2012, 01:24:53 PM |
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f anybody can help shed some light on the issue of usagi allegedly investing BMF funds into non-mining operations, I would appreciate that.
Let me help; here is the contract: https://glbse.com/asset/view/BMFHere is BMFs portfolio: http://tsukino.ca/bmf/holdings-nav/Note that obsi.hrpt has nothing to do with mining, and its hard to defend Nyan being a mining asset. One could even point out the contract doesnt allow for usagi to buy mining hardware. Now personally, I wouldnt give someone a scammer tag over something like this. However, if you are looking for a better reason, I would suggest you look at this post: The NAV of BMF is approximately 0.50. We will be placing aggressive bids at .45 to .50. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112734.0Those are demonstrably lies. First of all, the highest bid is currently 0.4104. Secondly, if you calculate the NAV using usagi's published asset list here: http://tsukino.ca/bmf/holdings-nav/After you correct the prices and you list the fpga and asics at actual list value and not 20% above BFLs listprice, I got to 0.262 BTC per share at the time it was posted: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112734.msg1219660#msg1219660Meanwhile he has been buying up some of those shares causing the nav to rise to ~0.3, but it was never anywhere near 0.5 BTC and saying that was a big fat lie intended solely to mislead potential investors, and talk the price up because his Nyan bonds are heavily invested in BMF and in big trouble. I suspect the wannabee lawyers here will have an opinion on whether or not thats even criminal. FWIW, here is an up to date NAV: Units Value (Market) Total (Market) % Bitforce Single 832 MH/s 2 50 100 7.49% BitForce Jalapeno 3.5 GH/s 2 15 30 2.25% BitForce 'SC' Single 40 GH/s 1 108.25 108.25 8.11% Assets Units Value (Market) GIGAMINING 0 0 0.00% BITBOND 10 0.3351 3.351 0.25% PUREMINING 0 0 0.00% YABMC 0 0 0.00% DMC 1291 0.01 12.91 0.97% BTC-MINING 300 0.9598 287.94 21.57% RSM 210 0.29 60.9 4.56% JAH 410 0.12 49.2 3.69% 7 11 0.115 1.265 0.09% ABM 200 0.125 25 1.87% BMMO 3775 0.02 75.5 5.66% MERGEDMINING 0 0 0.00% BTCMC 170 0.4 68 5.09% BFLS.RIG 200 0.55 110 8.24% UDN 1000 0 0.00% LTC-MINING 50 0.415 20.75 1.55% FPGAMINING 300 0.3355 100.65 7.54% OBSI.HRPT 1000 0.0589 58.9 4.41% JTME 120 0.789 94.68 7.09% ASICMINER 0 0 0.00% BIF.5-10.MININGBOND 120 0.33 39.6 2.97% NYAN 24 0.5 12 0.90% BAKEWELL 330 0.1489 49.137 3.68% BTC-BOND 4800 0.002 9.6 0.72% 0 0.00% BITCOINS 17.2457 1 17.2457 1.29% TOTAL 1334.8787 100.00%
1334 BTC worth of assets (even assuming obsi's ponzi is worth face value, its not like you can sell it) for 4585 bonds. Thats 0.29 BTC/bond
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EskimoBob
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September 26, 2012, 02:25:41 PM |
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From 2012-09-25 in #bitcoin-assets .... @assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00038653 = 2.3965 BTC [-] @assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50524 @ 0.00038633 = 19.5189 BTC [-] @assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35302 @ 0.00038564 = 13.6139 BTC [-] @assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46900 @ 0.00038556 = 18.0828 BTC [-] @assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13472 @ 0.00038467 = 5.1823 BTC [-] usagi Wish I had the money to do that usagi I've been buying here and there but mostly from .08 up to .09.. bnever thought i'd see it hit .035 lol thats stupid
Really? Even After I told you that Obsi is getting ready to drop the ball? Oh sorry, I forgot that from your IRC rant: usagi I'm an insider to all of this, and when I speak, you should listen.
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While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head. BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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vampire
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 26, 2012, 03:57:00 PM |
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Part two: Here's where things get interesting. It is board policy that, in order to help scammer investigations, NDA's and other such agreements will not be honored for the purpose of the scammer tag when the agreements are broken in order to reveal a scam. Interestingly enough, this seems like it might be the case. I will absolutely need to do more reading into this. If anybody can help shed some light on the issue of usagi allegedly investing BMF funds into non-mining operations, I would appreciate that.
So BMF hold these non-mining shares: 1000 OBSI.HRPT 24 NYAN http://tsukino.ca/bmf/holdings-nav/
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EskimoBob
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September 26, 2012, 05:26:58 PM |
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Part two: Here's where things get interesting. It is board policy that, in order to help scammer investigations, NDA's and other such agreements will not be honored for the purpose of the scammer tag when the agreements are broken in order to reveal a scam. Interestingly enough, this seems like it might be the case. I will absolutely need to do more reading into this. If anybody can help shed some light on the issue of usagi allegedly investing BMF funds into non-mining operations, I would appreciate that.
So BMF hold these non-mining shares: 1000 OBSI.HRPT 24 NYAN http://tsukino.ca/bmf/holdings-nav/Why bother trying? Maged is not stupid, he can read, and he will read the post where this was approved by shareholders. As for the other accusations it's kind of obvious EskimoBob was actually approached by someone else considering the number of trolls that have been sic'd on this thread (and others) recently.Only someone as underhanded as eskimobob would try so hard to change the subject away from what this is really all about. And it looks like EB will have to refund the money and/or buy back the shares or he WILL get a scammer tag -- according to Maged. I am very happy to see that justice will be done here. Usagi, stop lying. You know that we had this conversation and you offered me that stupid troll job of yours to help you spam your competition. You also know, I told you No! I remembered another related conversation where you actually acknowledged our conversation: This was happening 2012-09-08 around noon UTC: Chaang-Noi okay since i dont know anything im going to have a beer and smoke a cuban, best of luck with selling your secret info usagi EskimoBob usagi: For start I thought you are cool dude but after this priv chat we had and you offered ..., I am having really hard time trusting you.* usagi points out this is now the fourth time goat has been told that I don't have any info to sell and wouldn't sell it anyway ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) mircea_popescu cigars and beer ? get out of the sticks. DeaDTerra YOU DON'T KNOW NOTHING MAN, YOUR A GOAT AND I AM SAILOR MOON. seriously guys go get a room, I am running out of funny comments here usagi EskimoBob I'm sorryChaang-Noi <usagi> I'll sell you the info EskimoBob and this shit you have pulled today with "i have info but I can not tell" is childish and no wonder Chaang-Noi is crawling up your ares because of that ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) EskimoBob bad time for jokes like that
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While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head. BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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finkleshnorts
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 26, 2012, 05:53:15 PM |
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Nobody cares about scammer tags. Give this bob a scammer tag if it makes you feel better. There is nothing going on in this forum right now besides "scammer tag scammer tag theymos maged im angry" and it's getting really, really freaking old.
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Akka
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September 26, 2012, 05:59:05 PM |
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Nobody cares about scammer tags. Give this bob a scammer tag if it makes you feel better. There is nothing going on in this forum right now besides "scammer tag scammer tag theymos maged im angry" and it's getting really, really freaking old.
+1 This scammer accusations are getting ridiculous.
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Puppet
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September 26, 2012, 06:18:00 PM |
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Im guessing thats why usagi is doing it.
First it deflects from the much more important issues regarding his assets, as relevant posts with serious concerns and revealing numbers quickly get buried under these juvenile "liar - troll - scammer" discussions that no one cares about. And judging by BMF, Nyan.B and Nyan.C trades on GLSBE, that actually works.
Secondly I imagine it also helps devalue the seriousness of a scammer tag or accusation for the day someone decides usagi's accounting is more than just "creative". Now you may say no one cares about these tags, but I only partially agree. It doesnt really matter if someone like pirate gets it after the fact, but it does matter for someone who still actively soliciting funds and/or running assets on GLBSE or elsewhere.
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finkleshnorts
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 26, 2012, 06:53:47 PM |
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This isn't a court of public opinion.
This isn't a court at all. This is a hobbyist internet forum specifically for the purpose of public opinion. Why are you always lobbying to have people banned? You have been doing that for as long as I can remember. No one ever listens to your unproductive whining, you silly silly goose. I'm not sure what you deem relevant, but that fact that you post here, and presumably read here, tends to point toward the fact that your comments are indeed relevant. You're worse than MPORXE or whatever the hell that vampire lady calls herself. You are constantly bullied around on this forum and your posts are nothing but whine. Please sprout a backbone or at least let your business speak for itself. If you're trying to employ people to smear your competitors, then I'm not sure you really have much going for you either way.
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