Already delays in BFL shipment plans?

[SgtSpike]

I thought they're saying End of January now?

They're saying all current pre-orders will be delivered by then, not that that is when they will start delivering them.

[SLok]

The smaller purchasers haven't seemingly figured out that the Jally and Little Singles are pretty unprofitable the longer they wait to receive them. (after block halving that is). It seems like an inescapable reality that customers will eventually do the math and figure it out.

Then I guess the BFL representative doesn't know his match as much as I do.

lol math. Why am I doing this.

Lets throw in some hypothetical numbers. Difficulty goes up by 40x, price stays the same. Block reward halves to 25.

Difficulty X 40?  Dream on.

That's what you get if you calculate by opinion instead of figures.

Why then aren't people keeping their GPU or FPGA rigs active if your ideas and Badonkadonk are correct? (that somehow a Jally or Little Single will be profitable even if there is a late delivery and ever increasing difficulty)

So by your opinion any asic is no longer giving a roi after the block halving. Have you cancelled your (bctfpga) order yet? Oh no wait, you were just trolling, right?

If you can't answer the above, then it's not trolling. It's just obvious.

P.S. The people who will be making tons of BTC are the mini-rig crowd (or people buying multiple units to approach a mini-rig like system.)

So have you informed the customers of those other producers yet? I bet you didn't and won't. And can you answer that "have you cancelled your orders yet"?

[Badonkadonk]

[Speculation and comments based on opinion]
With the stated schedule closing in, I think the first wave of refunds is about to start.

People are starting to turn into "concerned customers" on the company forum. (err I mean "trolls" in company speak)

------------------

The smaller purchasers haven't seemingly figured out that the Jally and Little Singles are pretty unprofitable the longer they wait to receive them. (after block halving that is). It seems like an inescapable reality that customers will eventually do the math and figure it out.

What BFL will do about it to turn lemons into lemonade is gonna be pretty interesting.

I think the PCB's costs more than the ASIC chips themselves. Probably why they encouraged people turning their Jally's into Little Singles.

so by your definition, less speed = slower ROI?
considering that the 30ghs rig is 50% cheaper then the 60ghs rig, i fail to see how you can get too that conclusion...

how profitable anything is going to be is pure speculation, who knows, with the halving coming the price might double, it could plummit, gpu farms might shut down, etcetcetc...

like i said, speculation

@
Badonkadonk

You heard one of BFL representatives stating repeatedly in the last month that they had done the math and the profitability is stretched out over many days. They were referring to a Single SC and a ROI over a significant period of time. (Hence, the pitch that It was a selling point on their "energy efficiency".)

If you cut the performance in half for a Little Single do you expect it to get better? What about even further than that for a Jally?

As difficulty rises, the performance has to rise otherwise a Jally or Little Single produces significantly less as the time frame increases.

--------------------------------

Sure it is speculation. But I don't estimate difficulty to go down as time increases. Should I expect it [difficulty] will somehow decrease as time increases? (Let me know)

Perhaps Armageddon or another Super Sized  Sandy will hit various regions of the world and people won't be mining to bring up the difficulty. Perhaps a crazy thing like that might keep the difficulty down.

sure difficulty will rise, by your definition everyone should just stop mining...
the little sc is half the ghs / w of the "normal" rig, and costs half
hense the ROI is the same.
your statement seems to be "its less performance so its useless" wich is friggin moronic.

"As difficulty rises, the performance has to rise" so that doesnt apply to cpu mining or gpu mining?
not everyone is pumping and dumping eather. some acctualy want coins.

now stop trolling.

[Inaba]

This thread is so ROLFCOPTER.  It's like a wonderful (and I use that in the most pejorative sense) masturbation session between the BFL Clown Crew making up all sorts of figures and throwing math out the window to make things fit so they don't have to think about the complete lack of "transparency" being seen over on the BTCFPGA forums. 

For the record, pretty much everything Puerto Libre, creativex, AndrewBUD, Smoothie and thebaron have said in the past 10 pages is basically made up "facts" that have no grounding in reality and/or ultra-math-fail (I mean seriously... 1 != 1?  Really?  That is seriously the claim Puerto Libre is trying to make.).

[Frizz23]

Why don't you just shut up and deliver?

That's all we want from you/BFL.

[Inaba]

Because you wouldn't have anything to bitch about then.  It's all about you, Frizz.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

This thread is so ROLFCOPTER.  It's like a wonderful (and I use that in the most pejorative sense) masturbation session between the BFL Clown Crew making up all sorts of figures and throwing math out the window to make things fit so they don't have to think about the complete lack of "transparency" being seen over on the BTCFPGA forums. 

For the record, pretty much everything Puerto Libre, creativex, AndrewBUD, Smoothie and thebaron have said in the past 10 pages is basically made up "facts" that have no grounding in reality and/or ultra-math-fail (I mean seriously... 1 != 1?  Really?  That is seriously the claim Puerto Libre is trying to make.).

I'm not on the list because I promised to play nice.

Later, Josh.

~Bruno K~

[Frizz23]

Because you wouldn't have anything to bitch about then.

I would be more than pleased to stop bitching.

So please: Shut up - until you can deliver.

[fcmatt]

I cannot get over the fact they allow inaba out of his cage and to post things about bfl. Amazing.
Nov is essentially over due to the holiday and dec will go quicly. With no product out how an employee can talk smack is beyond me.

[PuertoLibre]

So have you informed the customers of those other producers yet? I bet you didn't and won't. And can you answer that "have you cancelled your orders yet"?

Since when did I become a public service?

Pay me a salary, then I will do the PR job on your behalf!

----------------------------
As for your other question, when I ask you a question and you kindly answer it, then yours will definitely receives an answer in kind. It is a "give and take" type of forum.

[PuertoLibre]

sure difficulty will rise, by your definition everyone should just stop mining...
the little sc is half the ghs / w of the "normal" rig, and costs half
hense the ROI is the same.
your statement seems to be "its less performance so its useless" wich is friggin moronic.

"As difficulty rises, the performance has to rise" so that doesnt apply to cpu mining or gpu mining?
not everyone is pumping and dumping eather. some acctualy want coins.

now stop trolling.

My good sir, you forget the obvious. That no one bought their lower end rig to earn a mere 20 cents a day. (Unless they are totally  hardcore in support of the BitCoin network)

The lower end your hardware is, the sooner it will become marginal profit. There is no debate on this IF the following conditions are true:

A) The ASICs collectively ship after Block Halving from all vendors.
B) The volume of High Gh/s products reaches the BitCoin network in progressively larger number and raise the difficulty sharply over the next year.
C) The ROI period of time is significantly stretched out by B and A.

People, we are only talking about ROI. This means you make back the money you actually spent @ your vendor....we aren't even talking about positive profit. By the math above 700 days to recoup that money is insane. 20 cents a day is insane.

There is a good reason why I mentioned a specific vendor basically admitting they were selling lemons to their customers. If they were touting energy efficiency and marginal returns as a selling point then that means they were fully aware of what their customers would eventually realize on the lower end of their product offering.
---------------------------

At the start, while difficulty is low, people will likely be quite happy with their low end purchases, but as difficulty guts their returns, they will definitively be crying to high heaven that it may take up to 2 years to make back the cost of a Jally as the margins rapidly shrink. (assuming electricity costs remain the same, which it may not considering world issues.)

That people don't realize this either means they haven't thought that far ahead (I have at least!) or they are "friggin moronic" to use your words.

You think you know what a troll is? Wait until the majority realize the lemons they have bought. You get what you pay for.

This isn't coming from a crystal ball. It's common sense if you evaluate a number of different factors. Are you even looking at the returns on some of these products? If you are perfectly satisfied with marginal returns then there is nothing wrong with this at all. You just have several hundred days until you ROI is complete.

The money (or BTC) will come "fast" at first with a low end device, then gradually slow down to a mere trickle. This is likely before you recoup 100% of your investment. So its like throwing money into a furnace with a low end device.

The good news is, if people give up in that span of time and shut off their rigs, or if you resell your rig in a second market to recoup your costs in a reasonable time frame. (reasonable for me is far less than a year)

[Inaba]

By the math above 700 days to recoup that money is insane. 20 cents a day is insane.

This made me lollers ...  Only in Bitcoin do people think 700 days for 100% ROI is insane.  Welcome to the real world.

Regardless, for the rest of your post, everything you said, were it to be true, applies at least doubly to every other vendor, so you'd be absolutely insane to buy anything but BFL then (assuming you bought at all), if what you say is true.

[PuertoLibre]

There you go folks, straight from the mouth of the people who sold you a lemon...I mean a Jalapeno.

About 2 years to get back a mere $150~ (plus or minus shipping costs) is not "insane". You heard it here first.

P.S. Yes, it is true of other vendors if they did the same. So far none have a lower end product like BFL. (BTCFPGA does have a 27Gh/s system but those orders were upgraded to 54Gh/s systems. They also cost less than a BFL Single.

But I might as well not pinch pennies in my arguments/debates.

[Frizz23]

This made me lollers ...  Only in Bitcoin do people think 700 days for 100% ROI is insane.  Welcome to the real world.

You - or your lack of basic math skills - made me lollers too. I was just reading your post on https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/404-pro-rated-refunds-60-day-release-window-2.html#post5811

"Well, yeah, we've already given a 50% speed bump for free (which in itself has caused some minor delays)."

Going from 30 GH/s to 60 GH/s is a 100% speed bump methinks. But what do I know? I don't work for a high tech company doing high tech ASICS like BFL

[Inaba]

Going from 30 GH/s to 60 GH/s is a 100% speed bump methinks. But what do I know? I don't work for a high tech company doing high tech ASICS like BFL

Awesome, you have run out of bullshit to spew, so you try (and utterly fail) to split hairs over a free speed bump!  Quality entertainment right there.  (40 GH/s -> 60 GH/s = 50% you idiot.  I sometimes wonder how you maintain breathing... anyone as stupid as you should not even be able to maintain reparation, much less be able to type.  You are truly a wonder of modern medicine.)

There you go folks, straight from the mouth of the people who sold you a lemon...I mean a Jalapeno.

About 2 years to get back a mere $150~ (plus or minus shipping costs) is not "insane". You heard it here first.

I'm using your words.  They are not my words... I was just pointing out the fallacy in your questionable logic.  Don't try to put words in my mouth, I would not claim any of the utter nonsense you type as my own, ever.

What's even funnier is the fact that a Jalapeno would be earning the same amount of money in that scenario as the more expensive 54 GH/s bASIC unit that you paid 8x as much for.  Good luck with that.

[SgtSpike]

Since when is a ROI of less than 2 years insane?  Most investors can only DREAM of such numbers!

For me, as long as a miner achieves a ROI better than the stock market (an average of 10% a year), I'm happy.  Of course, depreciation and the like must be calculated in as well, but certainly, paying off a device in only 2 years is not a bad deal IMO.  If you are finding better investments than that, please do share!

Also Frizz, the BFL Single was originally 40GH/s, bumped up to 60GH/s, which is a 50% speed increase.  Learn to research, please.

[smoothie]

This thread is so ROLFCOPTER.  It's like a wonderful (and I use that in the most pejorative sense) masturbation session between the BFL Clown Crew making up all sorts of figures and throwing math out the window to make things fit so they don't have to think about the complete lack of "transparency" being seen over on the BTCFPGA forums. 

For the record, pretty much everything Puerto Libre, creativex, AndrewBUD, Smoothie and thebaron have said in the past 10 pages is basically made up "facts" that have no grounding in reality and/or ultra-math-fail (I mean seriously... 1 != 1?  Really?  That is seriously the claim Puerto Libre is trying to make.).

Right...we failed...

Yet you along with BFL failed to meet not 1 or 2 of your deadlines but it looks like 3.

First it was "October"

Then it was "End of October, Early November"

Then it was "End of November"

Now it is...what?

You still haven't delivered and it is 1 week away from the end of November.

So by my calculations (and math), you failed at least 3 times as hard as us all (if we even did fail).

Fail harder Inaba.

"ROFLCOPTER"

 

[Unacceptable]

Why don't you just shut up and deliver?

That's all we want from you/BFL.

Now hold on Frizzzzzzzzzzzz............you said "you want answers",if Josh shuts up,how the hell are you gonna get answers 

[SLok]

So have you informed the customers of those other producers yet? I bet you didn't and won't. And can you answer that "have you cancelled your orders yet"?

Since when did I become a public service?

Pay me a salary, then I will do the PR job on your behalf!

----------------------------
As for your other question, when I ask you a question and you kindly answer it, then yours will definitely receives an answer in kind. It is a "give and take" type of forum.

Thanks, for showing that your sole purpose here is to troll and bash BFL, this time with roi arguments on devices that have about the same/better specs as the ones you happily order somewhere else. Maybe that's why you so conveniently duck the question why you did not cancel your own orders for these non-roi giving devices?

[Frizz23]

Now hold on Frizzzzzzzzzzzz............you said "you want answers",if Josh shuts up,how the hell are you gonna get answers 

Makes no difference whether he shuts up or not. His indifferent sh*t helps no one. Example: " ... I can't really comment on our internal development process. While it's not a unique methodology, I do not want to give competitors ideas on how we achieve what we achieve going forward.  ... yadda yadda yadda".