First Look at BFL's ASIC Hardware

[ice_chill]

Does this mean if the ASIC chips become obsolete, then the PCB can be reused for another ASIC chip to do another task (or the same task but better) ?
If so then this could potentially create a trade in value again.

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[dust]

Does this mean if the ASIC chips become obsolete, then the PCB can be reused for another ASIC chip to do another task (or the same task but better) ?
If so then this could potentially create a trade in value again.

The chips in the rendering are soldered on, so no.

[ice_chill]

Does this mean if the ASIC chips become obsolete, then the PCB can be reused for another ASIC chip to do another task (or the same task but better) ?
If so then this could potentially create a trade in value again.

The chips in the rendering are soldered on, so no.

Yes I see, I didn't mean you can replace it like a socketed chip, I meant it could be sent off to a special machine that removes the chips, re-balls and solders new ones on, laptop manufactures do this with failed integrated GPUs on laptop motherboards.

[psilan]

Sounds more expensive to do than buy a new pcb.

[the_thing]

Mark my words. This is a scam.

[psilan]

Mark my words. This is a scam.

I don't believe anybody that says anything here. You are all crazy.

Eastern Europe, in my case. But I believe there are other places, where similar creatures may live. They need solitude though. Areas with heavy industry, big cities, highways, etc. are out of question. My grand parents lived in a cottage far from any big city. They used to collect wood, mushrooms, forest fruits etc in nearby forest. Sometimes, I used to go with them and that's when I saw those creatures. Of course, it didn't happen everytime I went to the forest, but once in a blue moon.

[ice_chill]

Sounds more expensive to do than buy a new pcb.

It would be if there were many different PCBs, but because they are all the same, it only takes a one time setting up of the machine, and after that the process is automated.
Ofcourse it all depends on how much the PCB costs.

[dust]

Code:

Diode ?? uses <part #>
Diode ?? uses <part #>
SMD ???? jack ?? uses <part #>
Switching regulator ?? uses <part #>
For 2.2uH inductor use <part #>

[bobitza]

Mark my words. This is a scam.

Are you a GPU miner about to lose your investment?

/ontopic
I understand the CPU clocking explanations given, but isn't the manufacturing process something that yields predictable results? Ok, let's say there are some rejection rates of ... 1%?

I was expecting the jala to be a full working ASIC chip, the Single to be X working chips and so on. The difference in price between them would be from:
(++) additional materials used (i.e. fan, more electronic components, more metal in the case)
(--) discount from buying "chips in bulk".

Not from dwarfing a chip down.

[Photon939]

Mark my words. This is a scam.

Are you a GPU miner about to lose your investment?

/ontopic
I understand the CPU clocking explanations given, but isn't the manufacturing process something that yields predictable results? Ok, let's say there are some rejection rates of ... 1%?

I was expecting the jala to be a full working ASIC chip, the Single to be X working chips and so on. The difference in price between them would be from:
(++) additional materials used (i.e. fan, more electronic components, more metal in the case)
(--) discount from buying "chips in bulk".

Not from dwarfing a chip down.

It depends on if BFL plans on using semi-defective chips with a crippled pipeline or simply reduced clockspeed. It's entirely possible that the Jalapenos may be using full speed capable ICs but we won't really know until someone gets their hands on one and wants to risk damaging it to probe around the board and figure out what BFL has done.

[SgtSpike]

Mark my words. This is a scam.

Are you a GPU miner about to lose your investment?

/ontopic
I understand the CPU clocking explanations given, but isn't the manufacturing process something that yields predictable results? Ok, let's say there are some rejection rates of ... 1%?

I was expecting the jala to be a full working ASIC chip, the Single to be X working chips and so on. The difference in price between them would be from:
(++) additional materials used (i.e. fan, more electronic components, more metal in the case)
(--) discount from buying "chips in bulk".

Not from dwarfing a chip down.

Why does it matter?

[bobitza]

Why does it matter?

Doesn't matter that much but it helps managing expectations and perceptions/perceived value. Something BFL could use some more

[SgtSpike]

Why does it matter?

Doesn't matter that much but it helps managing expectations and perceptions/perceived value. Something BFL could use some more

I still don't see why...  as long as the chips meet the stated specs (gimp-binned or not), buyers should be satisfied.

What is the practical difference between a "full working ASIC" chip and "dwarfing a chip down" if they both mine at 3.5 GH/s?  Why do you care?

[crazyates]

Why does it matter?

Doesn't matter that much but it helps managing expectations and perceptions/perceived value. Something BFL could use some more

I still don't see why...  as long as the chips meet the stated specs (gimp-binned or not), buyers should be satisfied.

What is the practical difference between a "full working ASIC" chip and "dwarfing a chip down" if they both mine at 3.5 GH/s?  Why do you care?

One can be OC'd to the full 5GH/s for a single chip. The other cannot. 

[jgarzik]

Why does it matter?

Doesn't matter that much but it helps managing expectations and perceptions/perceived value. Something BFL could use some more

I still don't see why...  as long as the chips meet the stated specs (gimp-binned or not), buyers should be satisfied.

What is the practical difference between a "full working ASIC" chip and "dwarfing a chip down" if they both mine at 3.5 GH/s?  Why do you care?

One can be OC'd to the full 5GH/s for a single chip. The other cannot. 

That is fine with the smileys and all...  as long as you realize these expectations are unrealistic and far beyond what major chipmakers like AMD and Intel guarantee.

[crazyates]

Why does it matter?

Doesn't matter that much but it helps managing expectations and perceptions/perceived value. Something BFL could use some more

I still don't see why...  as long as the chips meet the stated specs (gimp-binned or not), buyers should be satisfied.

What is the practical difference between a "full working ASIC" chip and "dwarfing a chip down" if they both mine at 3.5 GH/s?  Why do you care?

One can be OC'd to the full 5GH/s for a single chip. The other cannot. 

That is fine with the smileys and all...  as long as you realize these expectations are unrealistic and far beyond what major chipmakers like AMD and Intel guarantee.

Yes, I'm well aware that this is almost certainly not possible. 

[ChipGeek]

Running 8x of the chips at full speed (5Gh/s) and voltage in the SC Single then under-volting and under-clocking 1x of the chips in the Jalapeno makes perfect sense from a thermal (heat) perspective.  I think the Single will have a large heatsink and fan similar to the current FPGA Singles while the Jalapeno will have a tiny heatsink and no fan.  It's all about the heat and how to get rid of it. 

This is also a good strategy for yield improvement.  Why do you think Intel, AMD and nVidia have different speed bins for their chips?  They would love to have all of their chips run at 4GHz or (much) higher but this is not how chip production works.  Instead, there is a distribution curve of varying speeds in any given "lot" (or batch) of chips.  Some are faster than average, others are slower.  The Jalapeno allows BFL to sell chips that are fully functional but not quite fast enough for the SC Single or SC mini-rig performance points.  (If anyone asks I can elaborate on this further.)

Marketing and price / performance points are also a factor I assume.  (For example, why have a $149 price point at all?  The current "low end" of the BFL product line it roughly 4x that.  Why not keep the cheapest price in the $500 to $600 range?  A: Marketing.)

[crazyates]

Running 8x of the chips at full speed (5Gh/s) and voltage in the SC Single then under-volting and under-clocking 1x of the chips in the Jalapeno makes perfect sense from a thermal (heat) perspective.  I think the Single will have a large heatsink and fan similar to the current FPGA Singles while the Jalapeno will have a tiny heatsink and no fan.  It's all about the heat and how to get rid of it.

Remember, the Jalapeno only needs to dissipate ~5W of heat. Not a lot of heat to even worry about getting rid of.

[abeaulieu]

Code:

Diode ?? uses <part #>
Diode ?? uses <part #>
SMD ???? jack ?? uses <part #>
Switching regulator ?? uses <part #>
For 2.2uH inductor use <part #>

Code:

Diode to use: CMS05
Diode to use: SS3P4
SMD Barrel jack to use: PJ-003B-SMT
Switching regulator to use: ST1S30
For 2.2uH Inductor, use: IHLP3????

Nothing incredibly valuable here, but it's relatively interesting:

CMS05 Schottky Diode (could be a CMS03)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CMS05(TE12L,Q,M)/CMS05QMCT-ND/871536

SS3P4 Schottky Diode
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SS3P4L-M3%2F86A/SS3P4L-M3%2F86AGITR-ND/2048204

PJ-003B-SMT
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PJ-003B/CP-003B-ND/96972

ST1S30 Buck Regulator
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ST1S30IPUR/497-11048-1-ND/2571073

2.2uH Inductor something like: IHLP3232DZER3R3M01 (specific is not that important)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/IHLP3232DZER3R3M01/541-1373-2-ND/2657469

[the_thing]

Mark my words. This is a scam.

Are you a GPU miner about to lose your investment?

/ontopic
I understand the CPU clocking explanations given, but isn't the manufacturing process something that yields predictable results? Ok, let's say there are some rejection rates of ... 1%?

I was expecting the jala to be a full working ASIC chip, the Single to be X working chips and so on. The difference in price between them would be from:
(++) additional materials used (i.e. fan, more electronic components, more metal in the case)
(--) discount from buying "chips in bulk".

Not from dwarfing a chip down.

No, I'm not a miner. But I know a scam when I see one. And this is a scam. S.C.A.M.