Haw many PPCoins will there be?

[AndyRossy]

Well maybe Sunny is coinhunter

I did wonder.
I don't think this is something I will get involved with after all.

Well, we may never know. And it doesn't matter. Judge ppcoin for the design it is - if there is a problem with the creator but the underlying design is good I suggest coming up with an alternative client. Same holds true for bitcoin.
Right know sunny is doing a good job though as far as I can tell.

+1

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[Liquid]

Well maybe Sunny is coinhunter

I did wonder.
I don't think this is something I will get involved with after all.

Well, we may never know. And it doesn't matter. Judge ppcoin for the design it is - if there is a problem with the creator but the underlying design is good I suggest coming up with an alternative client. Same holds true for bitcoin.
Right know sunny is doing a good job though as far as I can tell.

+1

+1

[smoothie]

HOW MANY PPC DOES SUNNY KING HAVE? RIGHT YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW! BUT I DO!

HOW MANY LTC DOES SMOOTHIE HAVE? RIGHT YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW! BUT I DO!

I have 0.01 LTC.

Waiting for the price to come down to get in. Is that straight enough for you?

Now back to my question:

HOW MANY PPC DOES SUNNY KING HAVE? RIGHT YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW! BUT I DO!

Edit: This truly does feel like a repeat of Solidcoin and CoinShitter. The PPC trolls have come out to defend their leader? lol...

It's a simple question I've asked that you all consider and perhaps even have Sunny King disclose it. I mean...even CoinHunter (in the early days of SC) told the community how many SC he had. Many can attest to this. So what's the problem? lol

[smoothie]

Seriously this is starting to smell like coinhunter all over again...
Even SERVER defended coinhunter and told me to go fuck myself because I was trying to get answers when SC was released or re-released (LOL).

Well maybe Sunny is coinhunter

BTW I didn't watch solidcoin closely. Why was it not able to compete in the long run?

I did wonder.

I don't think this is something I will get involved with after all.

+2,000,000,000 and maybe more?....

[Jutarul]

The PPC trolls have come out to defend their leader? lol...
It's a simple question I've asked that you all consider and perhaps even have Sunny King disclose it. I mean...even CoinHunter (in the early days of SC) told the community how many SC he had. Many can attest to this. So what's the problem? lol

I begin to understand why there's a flashy link below your name, saying IGNORE...
I gave you an estimate above. Thus, please answer me the following question:
What relevance does it have if Sunny held 2 million coins? I fail to see where you're going with this.

[Liquid]

How old are you guys ?

Lets keep this professional

[smoothie]

The PPC trolls have come out to defend their leader? lol...
It's a simple question I've asked that you all consider and perhaps even have Sunny King disclose it. I mean...even CoinHunter (in the early days of SC) told the community how many SC he had. Many can attest to this. So what's the problem? lol

I begin to understand why there's a flashy link below your name, saying IGNORE...
I gave you an estimate above. Thus, please answer me the following question:
What relevance does it have if Sunny held 2 million coins? I fail to see where you're going with this.

Thank you for answering. Now let's see if Sunny King will answer.

The point being is if he holds a considerable percentage of total PPC for a period of time he could in essence pump and dump the shit out of PPC.

[smoothie]

How old are you guys ?

Lets keep this professional

Greater than 25 and less than 35.

Professional? For one we are on a public forum. That is not a requirement. Also I'm simply asking a question.

I made that pretty clear and thus have been trolled by supposed sockies.

[Jutarul]

Thank you for answering. Now let's see if Sunny King will answer.
The point being is if he holds a considerable percentage of total PPC for a period of time he could in essence pump and dump the shit out of PPC.

but that holds for anyone else who is willing to buy 2 million coins off the market? Or you could just invest in mining right now and wait for 2-3 weeks for a significant amount and then try to pump&dump. I fail to see the connection to sunny.

[El Cabron]

Well maybe Sunny is coinhunter

I did wonder.
I don't think this is something I will get involved with after all.

Well, we may never know. And it doesn't matter. Judge ppcoin for the design it is - if there is a problem with the creator but the underlying design is good I suggest coming up with an alternative client. Same holds true for bitcoin.
Right know sunny is doing a good job though as far as I can tell.

I don't understand how this is better than BTC. It seems highly inflationary and unpredictable. If I wanted that I would just use fiat.

[Jutarul]

I don't understand how this is better than BTC. It seems highly inflationary and unpredictable. If I wanted that I would just use fiat.

PPcoin introduces two aspects to the network security model I find interesting. 1) POS blocks. 2) Difficulty dependent POW rewards.
2) causes changes in the money supply growth as a function of POW participation. You can tell that from the "kinks" in the graph I posted earlier.. whenever the difficulty changed to a different plateau, the slope adjusts. So money supply development is pegged to POW difficulty. However, the ^4 dependence makes it extremely stable. If you want to change the mintrate by a factor of 10 you have to change difficulty by a factor of 10000.

Here's a clue: With the ASICs coming out next year, difficulty will increase 10-100 fold (the difficulty between different blockchain is arbitraged) within 2013. This means that the mintrate will likely drop by a factor of 2-4 (1000 to 500-250). Also, POS blocks only contribute 1% yearly to inflation. And they already account for a significant percentage of blocks. I think sunny stated that the target distribution should be around 25% POW, 75% POS, but that may have to be confirmed.  Hence, I expect the inflation rate to dramatically decrease within the next year. If the first-month rate corresponds to 70M per year, the projected rate will likely fall to 5-10 million per year.

ppcoin can be characterized as a more energy-efficient cryptocurrency. In the long run this should be reflected in transaction fees.

[Sunny King]

I don't understand how this is better than BTC. It seems highly inflationary and unpredictable. If I wanted that I would just use fiat.

The mint design is not better than BTC, it's comparable. This is from FAQ:

Is there a cap on total money supply like Bitcoin's 21 million?

There is no hard cap other than a 2 billion coin max put into the code for now. But that should not be interpreted as an approachable cap, as it might never get anywhere close to that. It should not be considered a hard cap either as it may get lifted but that's likely not needed in a very very long time. Due to the nature of the mint rate design it's not possible to predict a final limit as it depends heavily on market participation, as well as the influences between proof-of-stake minting and fee destruction (there may not even be a mathematical limit if minting continues to outpace fee destruction). What we do know is that the proof-of-work minting would slow down exponentially according to Moore's Law (we are aware that Moore's Law eventually would stop to apply), and proof-of-stake minting introduces at most 1% annual inflation. So generally speaking it is still a very low future-inflation design comparable to Bitcoin.

In 0.2 release a 'moneysupply' stat is included in the getinfo output so everyone can see how many coins are in the market.

I designed this part so that it feels more beautiful/natural to my taste and doesn't involve fix time schedule and fixed cap, although downside is that some people will not feel confident with it's future inflation behavior. That's expected. I commented about Satoshi's mint rate design before and I think it is wise to have a fixed cap for a first cryptocurrency. For ppcoin I am experimenting and would  like to see how market responds to a comparable design without fixed cap.

Initially ppcoin inflation rate may drop faster than Bitcoin early stage due to dropping of mint per block. Another factor is that proof-of-work blocks are reduced (roughly from 10 minutes spacing to 30 minutes) while proof-of-stake blocks become frequent.

Above is my informed opinion but it's up to yourself to decide whether you are happy with its inflation prospects.

[El Cabron]

I don't understand how this is better than BTC. It seems highly inflationary and unpredictable. If I wanted that I would just use fiat.

PPcoin introduces two aspects to the network security model I find interesting. 1) POS blocks. 2) Difficulty dependent POW rewards.
2) causes changes in the money supply growth as a function of POW participation. You can tell that from the "kinks" in the graph I posted earlier.. whenever the difficulty changed to a different plateau, the slope adjusts. So money supply development is pegged to POW difficulty. However, the ^4 dependence makes it extremely stable. If you want to change the mintrate by a factor of 10 you have to change difficulty by a factor of 10000.

Here's a clue: With the ASICs coming out next year, difficulty will increase 10-100 fold (the difficulty between different blockchain is arbitraged) within 2013. This means that the mintrate will likely drop by a factor of 2-4 (1000 to 500-250). Also, POS blocks only contribute 1% yearly to inflation. And they already account for a significant percentage of blocks. I think sunny stated that the target distribution should be around 25% POW, 75% POS, but that may have to be confirmed.  Hence, I expect the inflation rate to dramatically decrease within the next year. If they first-month rate corresponds to 70M per year, the projected rate will likely fall to 5-10 million per year.

ppcoin can be characterized as a more energy-efficient cryptocurrency. In the long run this should be reflected in transaction fees.

What really worries me is that there can be well over 2 billion ppcoins

[Jutarul]

What really worries me is that there can be well over 2 billion ppcoins

yes. but you'll be long dead before that is reached. My guesstimate is 200 years.

[El Cabron]

What really worries me is that there can be well over 2 billion ppcoins

yes. but you'll be long dead before that is reached. My guesstimate is 200 years.

Hard to understand this coin. I might be wrong but I still see it as highly inflationary.

[Jutarul]

Hard to understand this coin...

+1 Give it time. I usually take one aspect at a time and try to figure out what it means. Took me a few months to understand bitcoin either.

[El Cabron]

Hard to understand this coin...

+1 Give it time. I usually take one aspect at a time and try to figure out what it means. Took me a few months to understand bitcoin either.

Well I and I doubt many others will invest in it until we understand that 2 billion coins is not inflationary.

What inflation rate will it be each year to go to 0 to 2 billion in 200 years?

hmm

[server]

What really worries me is that there can be well over 2 billion ppcoins

I think also that 2 billion coins are a lot, but this makes it possible to share the wealth more equally with a lot more people over a longer period.

(maybe this is a good thing with the asics in mind?)

[Jutarul]

What inflation rate will it be each year to go to 0 to 2 billion in 200 years?

The simplest assumption is that the 1% inflation from stake is compensated by fee destruction and money loss. (thus you save yourself the compounding interest nightmare). Then you have only difficulty dependent infusion of new money. At 10million/year you get to the 2billion figure after 200years.

However, the above estimate is bullshit since there is apparently no data to back it up.
You might as well predict climate change.

ADDENDUM: bitcoin has similar problems in the other direction: the unknown parameters of money loss with time makes it hard to predict the amount of "accessible money"

[bitcool]

What inflation rate will it be each year to go to 0 to 2 billion in 200 years?

The simplest assumption is that the 1% inflation from stake is compensated by fee destruction and money loss. (thus you save yourself the compounding interest nightmare). Then you have only difficulty dependent infusion of new money. At 10million/year you get to the 2billion figure after 200years.

However, the above estimate is bullshit since there is apparently no data to back it up.
You might as well predict climate change.

ADDENDUM: bitcoin has similar problems in the other direction: the unknown parameters of money loss with time makes it hard to predict the amount of "accessible money"

Thanks for the info.

Are you one of the developers of PPC? you seem to be an expert.....