NSA KNOWS

[Hopalong]

Create your wallets on an OFFLINE computer!!!

And keep it empty and offline. That will show them.

[kolloh]

Yeah bitcoin is really not anonymous, but you can takes to improve the anonymity of it such as not directly connecting to nodes. Web based wallets could also be used I suppose to avoid connecting to nodes.

[ranochigo]

Off-chain transaction or Darkwallet should make it harder for them, ew already know that transaction are tracable with some efforts and they can build system and basically all someone need to know where are you and who are you is your IP address

Darkwallet doesn't properly work, its very early version what's out there. Only if they keep releasing it we'll have any sort of anonimity. BTC right is just not anonymous at all. Maybe CoinJoin helps too but I have no idea how that works yet.

BTC is semi anonymous. You would need to use obfuscation services to clear your tracks.

For now we'll have to rely on trading BTC to an anonymous coin or service and then to Fiat or BTC with your tracks cleared. Its a bit of a pain right now, but maybe there will be more streamlined method when the demand raise further.

Bitcoin is pseudonymous. Trading it back and forth via various exchanges probably wouldn't help as they require verification once you hit a certain limit or when you register. Bitcoin is never designed to be anonymous at all. It can be pseudonymous from the general public if you don't reuse address and don't reveal the addresses to anyone else. Mixers service would ensure that the transactions wouldn't link together hence it would be quite anonymous.

Indeed, i don't mean depositing to an exchange or any services that log information such as IP, etc. I strictly mean manually obfuscating or obfuscation services such as mixers or instant coin exchange that doesnt log ip.

Manually i'm talking about clever way of spending your BTC but getting it back, like buying hash and running it through an untraceable route

Exchanges mostly don't delete logs. For mixers, they say that they don't keep logs but there isn't a way to prove that. In fact, some services has turned out to be a scam or is not anonymous enough. There was a post which described Shared coin as not being secure enough and can leak information. For the buying hash part, that would be completely wrong. Most sellers would sell at a higher price than expected gained profit to gain a profit. No guarantees that they won't spy on you.

So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.

Then you have read from the wrong source. The IP displayed on site like blockchain.info is merely the first node which relayed it. It is very inaccurate as people can connect to different nodes at different locations.

[achow101]

So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.

Then you have read from the wrong source. The IP displayed on site like blockchain.info is merely the first node which relayed it. It is very inaccurate as people can connect to different nodes at different locations.

He isn't talking about blockchain.info, and what he says is true. If someone were to connect to every single node out there (very difficult to do BTW), then that person would know which IP address a transaction originated from. Then that person would be able to know that that IP address most likely owns the inputs of the transaction. However, there are ways around this by using Tor, i2p, or VPNs.

[ranochigo]

So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.

Then you have read from the wrong source. The IP displayed on site like blockchain.info is merely the first node which relayed it. It is very inaccurate as people can connect to different nodes at different locations.

He isn't talking about blockchain.info, and what he says is true. If someone were to connect to every single node out there (very difficult to do BTW), then that person would know which IP address a transaction originated from. Then that person would be able to know that that IP address most likely owns the inputs of the transaction. However, there are ways around this by using Tor, i2p, or VPNs.

I'm talking about the first point. He is saying the first node which process (relays the transaction). It is hard to find out which is the IP it originated from without directly connection to the client itself. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[VirosaGITS]

Spy on me how?

BTC -> Nicehash (let say) -> Hash Seller -> Pointed at anonymous url routing to a private pool or full node of yours-> Paid in freshly generated coins to a completely unrelated wallet/coin. You can then exchange that to whatever you want or just spend it.

There are segments of tracability, which are hard to follow, then the Seller isint connected to your IP in any way at any time. You could do this from any connection and anywhere in the world (with internet).

I am not even sure its necessary to obfuscate the target pool as i am not sure there even is a way for to track who found a block for most coins anyways.

[achow101]

I'm talking about the first point. He is saying the first node which process (relays the transaction). It is hard to find out which is the IP it originated from without directly connection to the client itself. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That is true. I think both of you are saying the same thing.

Basically, if you were to connect to every single node in the world, then you would be able to know which IP address sent what transaction. It would simply be the node that first relays the transaction is the node that owns the private keys of the transactions inputs. As I said earlier, there are ways around this through tor, i2p and vpns.

[Kazimir]

He isn't talking about blockchain.info, and what he says is true. If someone were to connect to every single node out there (very difficult to do BTW),

Virtually impossible. Even if you managed get connected to, let's say, 6000 nodes. How do you know if there is still an unknown percentage of nodes that you're not connected to yet?

then that person would know which IP address a transaction originated from. Then that person would be able to know that that IP address most likely owns the inputs of the transaction.

This involves a huge uncertainty. If some node broadcasts a transaction, it will be propagated throughout the network immediately.

The theoretical "superconnected NSA node" would get the same tx from hundreds of different nodes within milliseconds. The information you can retrieve from that about the originating IP is slim to none.

[desired_username]

Spy on me how?

BTC -> Nicehash (let say) -> Hash Seller -> Pointed at anonymous url routing to a private pool or full node of yours-> Paid in freshly generated coins to a completely unrelated wallet/coin. You can then exchange that to whatever you want or just spend it.

There are segments of tracability, which are hard to follow, then the Seller isint connected to your IP in any way at any time. You could do this from any connection and anywhere in the world (with internet).

I am not even sure its necessary to obfuscate the target pool as i am not sure there even is a way for to track who found a block for most coins anyways.

I think he addressed this post to the ones who think that bitcoin provides anonymity without additional privacy enhancing steps.

[achow101]

He isn't talking about blockchain.info, and what he says is true. If someone were to connect to every single node out there (very difficult to do BTW),

Virtually impossible. Even if you managed get connected to, let's say, 6000 nodes. How do you know if there is still an unknown percentage of nodes that you're not connected to yet?

I know. I have tried. It failed miserably, including crashed my computer.

then that person would know which IP address a transaction originated from. Then that person would be able to know that that IP address most likely owns the inputs of the transaction.

This involves a huge uncertainty. If some node broadcasts a transaction, it will be propagated throughout the network immediately.

The theoretical "superconnected NSA node" would get the same tx from hundreds of different nodes within milliseconds. The information you can retrieve from that about the originating IP is slim to none.

Theoretically, with a superconnected node, then yes it is possible, since even those milliseconds are enough time difference to make the determination of where that transaction originated from.

Of course, doing this is highly infeasible and incredibly difficult to do, as well as possibly physically impossible due to latency in network connections.

[dserrano5]

2. A Bitcoin node makes no difference in broadcasting the user's own transactions, or anyone else's. The whole idea of Bitcoin's P2P network is that every node holds and dsitributes every transaction. Hence, the NSA (or anyone else) can't distinguish if the transactions I'm relaying are my own or other people's. That's not their shortcoming, there is simply no difference. Transactions are not linked to or associated with a particular node or user or wallet in any way.

NSA has the network wiretapped at several key points, and has also insights on some ISPs. Therefore, they can know where some transactions originate. You shouldn't assume you're outside of that group.

Plus, if you ever searched information on Tor and/or downloaded the software, the NSA is already actively watching you.

3. I frequently use web wallets. So the transactions I send or receive through there don't have anything to do with my IP or nodes or whatever.

You know SSL is rooted to the core, right? Remember your browser trusts (ouch) the certification authorities, which means the CAs (and governments) can see all your traffic. Even without this, don't forget the recent slew of problems found in openssl. It's perfectly possible the NSA knows about, and is actively exploiting, some yet-to-be-discovered vulnerabilities.

Thanks Edward Snowden, I never knew the NSA was spying on me!   

use TOR if you're paranoid.

And use Tor properly! Don't log into your facebook account through Tor. Or don't do like this guy:

If you are using torrents your IP get loged even trough Tor. No hiding is possible.

[StarenseN]

Any tangible evidences?

[Kazimir]

Well, one thing I know for sure: if I want to keep control over my money, and protect my privacy, I'm sure as hell a LOT better off with Bitcoin than with Paypal, Visa, Mastercard, bank accounts, Amazon pay, Apple pay, Google wallet, mobile banking apps, or similar centralized crap.

[dserrano5]

Any tangible evidences?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/07/report-rare-leaked-nsa-source-code-reveals-tor-servers-targeted/

flag people who are believed to live outside the United States and who request Tor bridge information via e-mail or who search for or download Tor or the security-minded TAILS operating system. Those users' IP addresses can then be tracked for further monitoring

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-the-nsa-targets-tor-users

Tor bridges, an essential tool for journalists and activists in oppressed countries, are being monitored, and that XKeyscore “attempts to track” their users

On wiretapping: https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A (I only searched for AT&T).

[Scamalert]

Whats the problem? In my country is bitcoin legal. Whould not care less if NSA know or not.
I dont see the point? Off cause if you are a scammer person, then should you be scared.
If you are not doing anyting ilegal and have nothing to hide, then is there no problem.
Its not like NSA sit and monitor YOU then can search on patterns, so if you have a lot of scammer business then will you might come into their search light.

[Hopalong]

Its not like NSA sit and monitor YOU...

You seem to have misplaced your tin foil hat. You must have it to understand how scary this is...

[dserrano5]

Whats the problem? In my country is bitcoin legal. Whould not care less if NSA know or not.

Watching television is also legal, but I guess you wouldn't like me (or the NSA) to be outside your window watching you watch television, am I right? It's not about legality, but privacy.

[oblivi]

Spy on me how?

BTC -> Nicehash (let say) -> Hash Seller -> Pointed at anonymous url routing to a private pool or full node of yours-> Paid in freshly generated coins to a completely unrelated wallet/coin. You can then exchange that to whatever you want or just spend it.

There are segments of tracability, which are hard to follow, then the Seller isint connected to your IP in any way at any time. You could do this from any connection and anywhere in the world (with internet).

I am not even sure its necessary to obfuscate the target pool as i am not sure there even is a way for to track who found a block for most coins anyways.

How are you exactly going to exchange the Bitcoins into fiat without getting traced? It's easy to stay anonymous within crypto, but not as soon as you start exchanging in fiat. In fact I would go as far as to say that it's impossible to do it anonymously.

[Scamalert]

Its not like NSA sit and monitor YOU...

You seem to have misplaced your tin foil hat. You must have it to understand how scary this is...

That is right where is my good old tin foil hat....... there it is

---- TINFOIL HAT ON ----

SHit NSA is fucking reading what I writing here.
They might start monitoring me, because I am not scared of them.
I need to log of and wipe my drive. CYA.

---- TINFOIL HAT OFF ----

[tearfereon]

No one said it's fully anonymous.
You can push your tx'es anonymously without relaying your IP info. (of course you need cold storage, offline wallet etc).