XMR/AEON Developer Smooth Investigation

[shitaifan2013]

fwiw; I really enjoy your ongoing discussions guys. not that I would understand most/everything of it, but it's been some nice food for thought over the last two days.

[smooth]

smooth, I think Monero people have tried to claim that mining for all made their coin the fairest launch. Yet we see even the emission curve declined egregiously faster than Bitcoin (and I pointed that out last year).

It's actually incomparable to Bitcoin. Faster initially, then slower.

I don't think we know the "right" speed or even if mining is he way to go. Super-fast is obviously bad because, among other reasons, it makes the network horribly insecure later (the whole, programmed self destruction). (Of course I know you know this, stating it for the readers including illodin).

We know the miner wasn't optimized on launch.

Isn't it time we come off the high horse?

I don't think I've claimed it was the fairest launch (maybe it was Risto who said that, but we of course know that he is not an expert on these things "in the trenches", he has the 10km high perspective), but it was free from the most egregious abuses that have plagued many launches, including things like not having Windows miners available and much worse. I think I may have said it was "close to" the fairest launch and I do believe that, among the major coins. I mean you could argue that AEON had a fairer launch because the miner was optimized by then, but who cares, AEON is approximately worth zero.

As for your proposal, I have replied privately with my thoughts.

To speak more generally, I don't think we know if ICOs are really a great model. Maybe it is. Most of them have done poorly, with the exception of ETH so far, but that is early (the wallet is so primitive and hard to use that many people who want to sell literally can't access their coins -- talk about a messed up launch). Obviously many have been blatant scams too (some claim this about ETH, although I don't really see it personally). That poisons the well a bit, and some ICOs (including perhaps some non-scam ones) have subsequently really flopped as a result (esp. if not high profile with a big marketing budget pre-ICO like ETH). Investors tend to throw out the good with the bad. Maybe yours can do better.

[TPTB_need_war]

fwiw; I really enjoy your ongoing discussions guys. not that I would understand most/everything of it, but it's been some nice food for thought over the last two days.

Thanks. When smooth and I get into one of our discussions, it is usually like that.

smooth, I stand back now. Thanks for the discussion. (yeah smooth afair rpietila was the main voice of that phrase)

[minersday]

smooth, I think Monero people have tried to claim that mining for all made their coin the fairest launch. Yet we see even the emission curve declined egregiously faster than Bitcoin (and I pointed that out last year).

It's actually incomparable to Bitcoin. Faster initially, then slower.

I don't think we know the "right" speed or even if mining is he way to go. Super-fast is obviously bad because, among other reasons, it makes the network horribly insecure later (the whole, programmed self destruction). (Of course I know you know this, stating it for the readers including illodin).

We know the miner wasn't optimized on launch.

Isn't it time we come off the high horse?

I don't think I've claimed it was the fairest launch (maybe it was Risto who said that, but we of course know that he is not an expert on these things "in the trenches", he has the 10km high perspective), but it was free from the most egregious abuses that have plagued many launches, including things like not having Windows miners available and much worse. I think I may have said it was "close to" the fairest launch and I do believe that, among the major coins. I mean you could argue that AEON had a fairer launch because the miner was optimized by then, but who cares, AEON is approximately worth zero.

As for your proposal, I have replied privately with my thoughts.

To speak more generally, I don't think we know if ICOs are really a great model. Maybe it is. Most of them have done poorly, with the exception of ETH so far, but that is early (the wallet is so primitive and hard to use that many people who want to sell literally can't access their coins -- talk about a messed up launch). Obviously many have been blatant scams too (some claim this about ETH, although I don't really see it personally). That poisons the well a bit, and some ICOs (including perhaps some non-scam ones) have subsequently really flopped as a result (esp. if not high profile with a big marketing budget pre-ICO like ETH). Investors tend to throw out the good with the bad. Maybe yours can do better.

Here's an interesting fact of Risto (https://twitter.com/ristopietila), from Helsingin Sanomat, finnish news paper, news video...
http://www.hs.fi/hstv/uutiset/v1401588977732
or
http://www.ruutu.fi/ohjelmat/hs-uutiset/risto-pietila-esittelee-bitcoin-kartanoaan-virossa
dont know if the links will work..

translated,
Malla's Mantion in North-estonia might be the largest purchase made by bitcoin, Risto Pietilä earned the money by profiteering bitcoins. He want's to attract more bitcoin users.

Nobody profited from anything?
Did you know this smooth?

[TPTB_need_war]

Yes rpietila is a for-profit investor.

I think rpietila is against scams where a few people have most of the coins and/or the devs just run away without actually achieving goals.

His weakness IMO is he sometimes tries to top-down manage or direct. Then again he does sometimes have insights. I think he potentially has a strong point with his experimental Crypto Kingdom game that distributing the coin to the users drives network effects and thus the wealth effect.

Btw, I've known him since 2007 or 2008, and his networth was less than mine then. He was buying BTC hand and fist at $10. I believe he sold $100,000+ of silver to buy BTC. He bought smaller portions at lower prices.

[smooth]

translated,
Malla's Mantion in North-estonia might be the largest purchase made by bitcoin, Risto Pietilä earned the money by profiteering bitcoins. He want's to attract more bitcoin users.

Nobody profited from anything?
Did you know this smooth?

Did I know what? That Risto bought Bitcoin at low prices, made a lot of money when it went up and then bought a castle? Sure, I've heard that and assumed it to be true. So what?

[minersday]

translated,
Malla's Mantion in North-estonia might be the largest purchase made by bitcoin, Risto Pietilä earned the money by profiteering bitcoins. He want's to attract more bitcoin users.

Nobody profited from anything?
Did you know this smooth?

Did I know what? That Risto bought Bitcoin at low prices, made a lot of money when it went up and then bought a castle? Sure, I've heard that and assumed it to be true. So what?

Just saying to keep an open mind and look that your own developed coins were free of cheating at the launch (developers didn't gain any advantage), before accusing other coins...............................

[smooth]

translated,
Malla's Mantion in North-estonia might be the largest purchase made by bitcoin, Risto Pietilä earned the money by profiteering bitcoins. He want's to attract more bitcoin users.

Nobody profited from anything?
Did you know this smooth?

Did I know what? That Risto bought Bitcoin at low prices, made a lot of money when it went up and then bought a castle? Sure, I've heard that and assumed it to be true. So what?

Just saying to keep an open mind and look that your own developed coins were free of cheating at the launch (developers didn't gain any advantage), before accusing other coins...............................

Risto bought the castle before Monero even existed? He also had nothing to do with the launch of it (he has minimal computer skills afaik)

[YAdaminer]

2 days 13 pages!?!

It seems that this will be epic.

[TPTB_need_war]

Risto...

...is frank:

This strategy gives you peace of mind when operating large fake walls.

I wonder why I know it 

Lol. 

[Lukas_Jackson]

What a nice thread and very informative.


Smooth, you are experimenting with aeon (shitcoin atm) and have a 2.5% of available coin supply at the moment (instamined btw). You have right to do so.
What if it happens to go somewhere near $17mln market cap?

eduffield has been experimenting with his coin (shitcoin at that moment) 1.5 year ago. Little problems at the beginning (due to experimenting) but everything is priced in the market now. Due to his honesty, real name, constant development and delivering he (now it's a team) managed to get his coin (shitcoin 1.5 year ago) to $17mln market cap.

I guess everything what smooth does is good but when somebody else do it in better way it's not.
Obviously you are just a butthurt nothing else. Envious butthurt.
I would back you up if you would be able to do something usefull.
Reading your and your gang's post is like try-not-to-laugh challenges to me.

[smooth]

What a nice thread and very informative.


Smooth, you are experimenting with aeon (shitcoin atm) and have a 2.5% of available coin supply at the moment (instamined btw). You have right to do so.
What if it happens to go somewhere near $17mln market cap?

eduffield has been experimenting with his coin (shitcoin at that moment) 1.5 year ago. Little problems at the beginning (due to experimenting) but everything is priced in the market now. Due to his honesty, real name, constant development and delivering he (now it's a team) managed to get his coin (shitcoin 1.5 year ago) to $17mln market cap.

I guess everything what smooth does is good but when somebody else do it in better way it's not.
Obviously you are just a butthurt nothing else. Envious butthurt.
I would back you up if you would be able to do something usefull.
Reading your and your gang's post is like try-not-to-laugh challenges to me.

ROFL, that's quite a strained analogy you have their.

The information about the Dash instamine including the false, misleading and deceptive statements by the developer, which are carefully documented and recorded, are here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

I do not believe I have made any false, misleading or deceptive statements about AEON, ever. Certainly not in connection with its launch or coin supply (but in no other context either, to my knowledge). For that matter I don't think the previous developer did either.

Get it?

[BitcoinForumator]

Don't forget that smooth (or more accurately the development fund) got the 2.5% (or whatever the number is) when people donated it, it wasn't an instamine.

[Lukas_Jackson]

Don't forget that smooth got the 2.5% when people donated it, it wasn't an instamine.

Small difficulty is instamining.
Get it?

[BitcoinForumator]

Don't forget that smooth got the 2.5% when people donated it, it wasn't an instamine.

Small difficulty is instamining.
Get it?

And that (the instamining) happens with every coin. And it was donated.

[TPTB_need_war]

Don't forget that smooth got the 2.5% when people donated it, it wasn't an instamine.

Small difficulty is instamining.
Get it?

And that (the instamining) happens with every coin. And it was donated.

Yes it was donated because it was (nearly) freely given away to the person who donated it. No distinction.

Well sort of any way... I don't want to pick on smooth. Perfectly okay for me if he has 2.5% of AEON.

[Lukas_Jackson]

I'm  trying not to laugh

Ok.
I get 4 BTC in 15 minutes of mining a shitcoin (whitecoin lol). There was false, misleading and deceptive statements by the developer of this coin.
Where were you the saviour? Or why are you not ther atm?
Oh, it's not in competition with your coins and doesn't have any attention, obvious butthurt.
Attention.
Get it?

[Lukas_Jackson]

Don't forget that smooth got the 2.5% when people donated it, it wasn't an instamine.

Small difficulty is instamining.
Get it?

And that (the instamining) happens with every coin. And it was donated.

Yes it was donated because it was (nearly) freely given away to the person who donated it. No distinction.

Well sort of any way... I don't want to pick on smooth. Perfectly okay for me if he has 2.5% of AEON.

It's ok with me as well. He can even have 100% of it. I will not troll him nor his coins for that.
If he is able to take it to $17mln market cap...good for him and for otters who recognised that early.

[smooth]

Don't forget that smooth got the 2.5% when people donated it, it wasn't an instamine.

Small difficulty is instamining.
Get it?

No, I don't agree.

Coin difficulties go up and down over time, as with any market. It isn't instamining to be mining when other people think it is a bad idea. That's being contrarian, a sometimes-good but often-foolish investment strategy.

With time and slow distribution comes the opportunity to be contemplative, to make mistakes and correct them without large effect. It is possible for non-privileged participants to study the situation and make a reasoned, informed decision whether to participate. There are also opportunities to point out errors, implement fixes, and so forth. It is hard for any material misleading statements to be made, because there is time to check facts and scrutinize.

None of that exists with a true instamine.

Instamining is when you can mine an enormous amount during a very short period of time, and since the short time factor is so critical, there is a an exceptionally large vulnerability to other fraud or manipulation. This includes starting the mining early, having bugs in the code, or not providing Windows binaries, all of which are among the issues which we know occurred with Dash. Otherwise-small errors or ethical lapses become highly amplified in effect when 40% of the 18-months-in supply is mined in just hours (a large portion of that in just one hour).

None of that happened with AEON. Anyone who wanted to take the risk of spending his time, effort, and/or mining on mining it had months to do so (but at the same time had to maintain computers, keep them going, etc. for months), and in doing so were taking risks that it would all be a waste. Others had time to get in, and no one could be excluded by giving deceptive or misleading information about a start time or not providing software that can work on their computer. In fact no one is excluded even now and the opportunity to mine in meaningful amounts is still open to anyone.

[Lukas_Jackson]

This includes starting the mining early, having bugs in the code, or not providing Windows binaries, all of which are among the issues which we know occurred with Dash.

If you want to be ethical and professional you wouldn't promote buying a windoze. Linux is free for everybody.
At that time many people were jumping from one coin to another. Many hundreds of people were watching closely every launch of a new coin. Many eyes were focused on Dash (xcoin, darkcoin at that time) thus many miners were ready.
I think only you were misled and deceived. What makes you an envious butthurt