OLD FLY THREAD

[Griffith]

Exchanges surviving and prospering is another debate, in fact the answer to that is simple, they need to charge transactions fees per trade,
but what they are failing to do currently is what the normal stock exchanges do.
All Stock exchanges also charge a fee for you to be a member of their exchange before you can trade, even the low cost range from $8 to $20 per month.
Crypto exchanges need to do the same if they want to survive, ( $3 to $5 per month per member) to know I am trading on a stable reliable exchange, that is not shorting my investment to make money is a no brainer.
FYI:
One thing to point out , is the Antidumping fee is a large part of the reason for this coin, so any allowing of exchanges to stake for free is completely opposite to this coin's stated antidumping goals.

a lot of traders dont do enough volume to want to have to pay to be a member of the exchange. thats why im in the position of free exchanges but they get to stake. i wouldnt pay any exchange money to use them. id just stick to only btc and use coinbase and stuff if i had to pay monthly to trade altcoins.

Problems with only an exchange being allowed to have non-staking addresses, is the following:
It does not let users store fly in paper wallet without suffering the penalty.
It does not allow any real commercial use of the coin ,without that its appeal will be limited.
One Important difference if you hold your coins in a non-staking address in your own wallet instead of leaving them on the exchange is, if the exchange goes under, your coins are not lost with it.

 

exchanges werent the only ones allowed to use the exchange address with my proposal. i was just calling it an exchange address because it was designed for the exchanges to have no withdrawl fee in it. everyone always had the option to set thier wallet with exchangewallet=1 and create one of those addresses. i am 100% AGAINST storing coins on an exchange. its such a stupid idea. the most i ever hold on an exchange at a given time is .2BTC cuz thats the most im willing to lose. the whole point was to have a user withdraw off an exchange to a normal wallet. (normal wallet because originally i had it so if you send from 1 exchange to another you still pay a fee. but this was brought up in the FLYTEAM chat that this is a bad idea for hot wallets and cold wallets so i correct that point).

so at this point it would be to have a user pull off the exchange to a wallet.


back to the point
which brings us back to the only real difference between our two solutions is the ability to stake in the no send fee wallets. and as far as that goes id like some other opinions. so anyone. feel free to comment

(lookin at you vegas)

[kiklo]

a lot of traders dont do enough volume to want to have to pay to be a member of the exchange. thats why im in the position of free exchanges but they get to stake. i wouldnt pay any exchange money to use them. id just stick to only btc and use coinbase and stuff if i had to pay monthly to trade altcoins.

Exactly the answer , not enough volume, which is why trading fees alone , can't keep an exchange from going under when BTC drops compared to fiat.
And that is why your favorite free exchanges will keep dying, there business model fails at this, Electricity & ISPs are paid for in Fiat not BTC.
Real Value is in Alts , as they can achieve what BTC did, that's why people will want a stable Alt exchange and be willing to pay a small monthly membership fee.
If Cryptsy charged a $1 or $3 a month membership fee, they would be able to meet their BTC & LTC payouts instead of their clients waiting weeks to receive their funds and moving to other exchanges.

Problems with only an exchange being allowed to have non-staking addresses, is the following:
It does not let users store fly in paper wallet without suffering the penalty.
It does not allow any real commercial use of the coin ,without that its appeal will be limited.
One Important difference if you hold your coins in a non-staking address in your own wallet instead of leaving them on the exchange is, if the exchange goes under, your coins are not lost with it.

 

exchanges werent the only ones allowed to use the exchange address with my proposal. i was just calling it an exchange address because it was designed for the exchanges to have no withdrawl fee in it. everyone always had the option to set thier wallet with exchangewallet=1 and create one of those addresses. i am 100% AGAINST storing coins on an exchange. its such a stupid idea. the most i ever hold on an exchange at a given time is .2BTC cuz thats the most im willing to lose. the whole point was to have a user withdraw off an exchange to a normal wallet. (normal wallet because originally i had it so if you send from 1 exchange to another you still pay a fee. but this was brought up in the FLYTEAM chat that this is a bad idea for hot wallets and cold wallets so i correct that point).

It looks like we agree the users should also have a non-staking address in their wallet, so they don't leave coins on the exchange because they are afraid of the penalty.

 

[kiklo]

There is one major difference between our ideas.
In yours :
the new exchange addresses will have a different and for the most part higher fee structure when receiving coins

In my idea,
the non-staking address does not have any fees for sending or receiving coins.

Team Fly will need to choose one.

 

FYI:
If there is a higher fee structure for receiving on the exchange address, then there is really no point , as it still has a penalty.
Also if you send from the address with the antidumping fee, won't you be charged a 2nd fee by your exchange address when cryptopia receives it.
(Too Much like Double Taxation)

So our ideas only real similiarly , is a separate address type is created, but from there we diverge.
As your separate address still has a penalty where as mine has no penalty , which makes it viable for the reasons I post earlier,  
and yours would not.  


FYI:
Don't forget to let Vegas know,
Fly will need a checkpoint server.

[midnight_miner]

FYI:
If there is a higher fee structure for receiving on the exchange address, then there is really no point , as it still has a penalty.
Also if you send from the address with the antidumping fee, won't you be charged a 2nd fee by your exchange address when cryptopia receives it.
(Too Much like Double Taxation)

So our ideas only real similiarly , is a separate address type is created, but from there we diverge.
As your separate address still has a penalty where as mine has no penalty , which makes it viable for the reasons I post earlier,  
and yours would not.  

Thank you kiklo!!!

You have saved me from soo much typing and explaining.  I agree with your approach and idea.

My problem is I am not respected from the FLY 'Collective' because I read more than I post on this forum...  and therefore no Hero badge by my handle.

I am glad to see someone else understands trading dymanics and general business models.  I was starting worry there was only script kiddies running coins...

[kiklo]

Thank you kiklo!!!

You have saved me from soo much typing and explaining.  I agree with your approach and idea.

My problem is I am not respected from the FLY 'Collective' because I read more than I post on this forum...  and therefore no Hero badge by my handle.

I am glad to see someone else understands trading dymanics and general business models.  I was starting worry there was only script kiddies running coins...

Thanks for the kind words.
If Team Fly choose my posted idea, this coin will have Vegas anti dumping feature, plus with the non-staking (no-fee) address a viable way to use it for commerce without worrying that a big holder will stake it into the ground.  Best of Both Worlds.
 
 

[Griffith]

There is one major difference between our ideas.
In yours :
the new exchange addresses will have a different and for the most part higher fee structure when receiving coins

In my idea,
the non-staking wallet does not have any fees for sending or receiving coins.

Team Fly will need to choose one.

 

FYI:
If there is a higher fee structure for receiving on the exchange address, then there is really no point , as it still has a penalty.
Also if you send from the address with the antidumping fee, won't you be charged a 2nd fee by your exchange address when cryptopia receives it.
(Too Much like Double Taxation)

So our ideas only real similiarly , is a separate address type is created, but from there we diverge.
As your separate address still has a penalty where as mine has no penalty , which makes it viable for the reasons I post earlier,  
and yours would not.  


FYI:
Don't forget to let Vegas know,
Fly will need a checkpoint server.

i dont understand then. if you have a normal address with all your... lets say 1000 FLY. with the tx fee. but you send to a no stake address. you pay no fee because you said they dont have a fee when receiving. so that tx is free and you still have 1000 FLY. so then you send those coins to an exchange. no stake address is sending. so tx is free. exchange recieves 1000 FLY. then you dump. and paid no fees. your no staking address MUST have recieve fees otherwise the system just has no fees unless you send normal addr to normal addr. but if thats the only tx that ever has fees. why would you?

which is why i said the only difference is the staking aspect. cuz no fees when sending or receiving doesnt work.


edit: im going to go on a leap here and assume you are going to say then you need to charge a fee when sending to an exchange. but then you need to have the rules i had anyway about getting a fee when receiving coins to a non stake address since thats the whole point of a second address. to tell which addresses are on exchanges.

[kiklo]

i dont understand then. if you have a normal address with all your... lets say 1000 FLY. with the tx fee. but you send to a no stake address. you pay no fee because you said they dont have a fee when receiving. so that tx is free and you still have 1000 FLY. so then you send those coins to an exchange. no stake address is sending. so tx is free. exchange recieves 1000 FLY. then you dump. and paid no fees. your no staking address MUST have recieve fees otherwise the system just has no fees unless you send normal addr to normal addr. but if thats the only tx that ever has fees. why would you?

which is why i said the only difference is the staking aspect. cuz no fees when sending or receiving doesnt work.


edit: im going to go on a leap here and assume you are going to say then you need to charge a fee when sending to an exchange. but then you need to have the rules i had anyway about getting a fee when receiving coins to a non stake address since thats the whole point of a second address. to tell which addresses are on exchanges.

OK ,

Refer to the addresses as staking or non-staking instead of normal, it will avoid confusion.

In my idea there are 2 type address,
Staking Address & Non-Staking Address

If I have 1000 coins in my staking address and send out to the exchange or even another address staking or non-staking, then the antidumping fee is charged as the transaction fee and sent to the Superflywallet.

If I have 1000 coins in my non-staking address , I can send to the exchange or even another address staking or non-staking , with no antidumping fees charged.
This also allows me to make a paper wallet without the fees.
or If an exchange to the cold wallet without fees.

What you need to realize is , I only pay antidumping fees when sending out from the staking address.

As far as the 1000 coins in the non-staking address , none were created there, I had to buy them on the exchange , if so it is no different , than if I had purchased 1000 coin on the exchange and let them sit, and just sold whenever the price went higher.
FYI: The antidumping fee has no effect in any version , if I just leave the coins on the exchange and sell/dump later, nothing can stop this if you allow an exchange.

If I staked the 1000 coins in my staking address and send them to my non-staking address in my own wallet, I am charge the antidumping fees,  But if I then send those coins from that non-staking address to the exchange, I am not being hit with the antidumping fee twice.

Clear?
 

FYI:
The antidumping fee only stop someone from staking and dumping all of the excess coins while keeping their principle amount.
When coins are stored in the non-staking address, they do not gain interest and when I sell , I lose that amount , and can not sell/dump continuously.

[Griffith]

OK ,

Refer to the addresses as staking or non-staking instead of normal, it will avoid confusion.

In my idea there are 2 type address,
Staking Address & Non-Staking Address

If I have 1000 coins in my staking address and send out to the exchange or even another address staking or non-staking, then the antidumping fee is charged as the transaction fee and sent to the Superflywallet.

If I have 1000 coins in my non-staking address , I can send to the exchange or even another address staking or non-staking , when no antidumping fees charged.
This also allows me to make a paper wallet without the fees.
or If an exchange to the cold wallet without fees.

What you need to realize is , I only pay antidumping fees when sending out from the staking address.

As far as the 1000 coins in the non-staking address , none were created there, I had to buy them on the exchange , if so it is no different , than if I had purchased 1000 coin on the exchange and let them sit, and just sold whenever the price went higher.
FYI: The antidumping fee has no effect in any version , if I just leave the coins on the exchange and sell/dump later, nothing can stop this if you allow an exchange.

If I staked the 1000 coins in my staking address and send them to my non-staking address in my own wallet, I am charge the antidumping fees,  But if I then send those coins from that non-staking address to the exchange, I am not being hit with the antidumping fee twice.

Clear?
 

FYI:
The antidumping fee only stop someone from staking and dumping all of the excess coins while keeping their principle amount.
When coins are stored in the non-staking address, they do not gain interest and when I sell , I lose that amount , and can not sell/dump continuously.

so. gunna make a list. because you changed what you said two posts ago to this one. and i think it was unintentional on your part.


staking -> non-staking = Fee
staking -> staking = Fee

non-staking -> non-staking = Free
non-staking -> staking = Free

did i get that right?

[kiklo]

staking -> non-staking = Fee
staking -> staking = Fee

non-staking -> non-staking = Free
non-staking -> staking = Free

did i get that right?

100% Correct , You Got it!!! 

 

[NoobKidOnTheBlock]

OMG I am getting more and more excited about this guys I can't wait to get this going good and proper cause it's going to be quite the fun ride from what I can tell already AWESOME!!! Hopefully I make some trades by the time everything is good to go so I have at least the 100 FLY minimum Just need some people to buy some of my other coins to free some BTC up and I'll be golden YAY!! So just to be clear anyone who holds 100 to 5000 FLY is eligible for SuperFLY Wallet rewards or something like that?

[Griffith]

staking -> non-staking = Fee
staking -> staking = Fee

non-staking -> non-staking = Free
non-staking -> staking = Free

did i get that right?

100% Correct , You Got it!!! 

 

ok now im confused on how this is different from mine =P
gunna quote myself for reference....

Solution:
add another address type to the enum in CBitcoinAddress class in base58.h
have the wallet running in an exchangewallet mode use that enum for addresses, the addresses from exchange wallets using this selection from the enum will use a different address formatting than standard user wallet so they are easily identifiable by the network. the new exchange addresses will have a different and for the most part higher fee structure when receiving coins but be exempt from fees when sending coins. since all wallets will have the code there is no need for special nodes.

this solves the free withdrawal problem, and keeps the anti-dumping system in place.
problem solved

so the first sentence i identified how to make a second address type. we will continue to call this non-staking for consistency (even though i called it an exchange address)
i said here "exchange addresses will have a different and for the most part higher fee structure when receiving coins but be exempt from fees when sending coins"

which equates to..

non-staking -> non-staking = Free
non-staking -> staking = Free

and then i didn't comment on a change for the staking wallets so they would stay the same

staking -> non-staking = Fee
staking -> staking = Fee.


so now we loop back... to only difference was that you think the addresses should not stake. and i think they should =P

[Rexxxem]

So just to be clear anyone who holds 100 to 5000 FLY is eligible for SuperFLY Wallet rewards or something like that?

You have to actively spread the word. Social media, the forum,, ect. contribute here and there and you are rewarded for it. Its on a weekly basis so if you miss/skip a week you lose eligibility regardless of how much you own.

[NoobKidOnTheBlock]

So just to be clear anyone who holds 100 to 5000 FLY is eligible for SuperFLY Wallet rewards or something like that?

You have to actively spread the word. Social media, the forum,, ect. contribute here and there and you are rewarded for it. Its on a weekly basis so if you miss/skip a week you lose eligibility regardless of how much you own.

Oh so anyone who owns between 100 to 5000 FLY is eligible for getting rewarded but only if they contribute actively with FLY and spread the word and such?  So another question I had was when I get my wallet going with 100 FLY how do I let the community or the team know that I have that amount and get started with the reward eligibility?

[Rexxxem]

So just to be clear anyone who holds 100 to 5000 FLY is eligible for SuperFLY Wallet rewards or something like that?

You have to actively spread the word. Social media, the forum,, ect. contribute here and there and you are rewarded for it. Its on a weekly basis so if you miss/skip a week you lose eligibility regardless of how much you own.

Oh so anyone who owns between 100 to 5000 FLY is eligible for getting rewarded but only if they contribute actively with FLY and spread the word and such?  So another question I had was when I get my wallet going with 100 FLY how do I let the community or the team know that I have that amount and get started with the reward eligibility?

PM keesdewit to claim your address on the richlist.

Edit

This is the previous method But i would assume you would still have to do some variation of these insructions, minus the presstab stuff..

Steps to claim address:
1. Go to address claim  http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/FLY/claim.php
    On the explorer page you will see 3 boxes to fill in

2. Copy address from wallet and paste in address claim box marked "Address"
     In your wallet go to the Receive page and type a lable in for the Main wallet    
      Something like "Main" so you never get confused which address is Main vs. POS
      Lable your POS address "POS" (Labling not part of the process but a good practice)

3. Type Name in Address claim box marked "Name" - Use your bitcointalk name
          
4. In your wallet - on receive page - highlight the Main Address and click Sign message at the bottom right

5. A box will open showing the address at the top - under the address is the open space
        Type the Name you used to claim exactly as it is on the Claim name page of the explorer
        Same Punctuation, Caps, etc. - best to just copy and paste.

6. Click sign message box - a box will open to put in your password (if you have one - please encrypt wallet and have one)

7. When you enter your password - a box fills in on the botom of the page with a long string of numbers and letters
   Copy this and paste into the "proof of ownership" box on the claim name page - click "Submit"

8. If it does not work - make sure each step was done carefully.
    If it still does not work PM me and we can arrange a time to walk through the process

[NoobKidOnTheBlock]

So just to be clear anyone who holds 100 to 5000 FLY is eligible for SuperFLY Wallet rewards or something like that?

You have to actively spread the word. Social media, the forum,, ect. contribute here and there and you are rewarded for it. Its on a weekly basis so if you miss/skip a week you lose eligibility regardless of how much you own.

Oh so anyone who owns between 100 to 5000 FLY is eligible for getting rewarded but only if they contribute actively with FLY and spread the word and such?  So another question I had was when I get my wallet going with 100 FLY how do I let the community or the team know that I have that amount and get started with the reward eligibility?

PM keesdewit to claim your address on the richlist.

Edit

This is the previous method But i would assume you would still have to do some variation of these insructions, minus the presstab stuff..

Steps to claim address:
1. Go to address claim  http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/FLY/claim.php
    On the explorer page you will see 3 boxes to fill in

2. Copy address from wallet and paste in address claim box marked "Address"
     In your wallet go to the Receive page and type a lable in for the Main wallet    
      Something like "Main" so you never get confused which address is Main vs. POS
      Lable your POS address "POS" (Labling not part of the process but a good practice)

3. Type Name in Address claim box marked "Name" - Use your bitcointalk name
          
4. In your wallet - on receive page - highlight the Main Address and click Sign message at the bottom right

5. A box will open showing the address at the top - under the address is the open space
        Type the Name you used to claim exactly as it is on the Claim name page of the explorer
        Same Punctuation, Caps, etc. - best to just copy and paste.

6. Click sign message box - a box will open to put in your password (if you have one - please encrypt wallet and have one)

7. When you enter your password - a box fills in on the botom of the page with a long string of numbers and letters
   Copy this and paste into the "proof of ownership" box on the claim name page - click "Submit"

8. If it does not work - make sure each step was done carefully.
    If it still does not work PM me and we can arrange a time to walk through the process

Wicked!! Thanks so much for all of this mate!! Now all I gotta do is get 12 more FLY and then once I'm able to withdraw the FLY I have on Cryptopia then I'll be good to go with the 100 FLY Ohhhh I hope that this happens soon I've been waiting soooo very very long Cheers

[pokeytex]

i dont understand then. if you have a normal address with all your... lets say 1000 FLY. with the tx fee. but you send to a no stake address. you pay no fee because you said they dont have a fee when receiving. so that tx is free and you still have 1000 FLY. so then you send those coins to an exchange. no stake address is sending. so tx is free. exchange recieves 1000 FLY. then you dump. and paid no fees. your no staking address MUST have recieve fees otherwise the system just has no fees unless you send normal addr to normal addr. but if thats the only tx that ever has fees. why would you?

which is why i said the only difference is the staking aspect. cuz no fees when sending or receiving doesnt work.


edit: im going to go on a leap here and assume you are going to say then you need to charge a fee when sending to an exchange. but then you need to have the rules i had anyway about getting a fee when receiving coins to a non stake address since thats the whole point of a second address. to tell which addresses are on exchanges.

OK ,

Refer to the addresses as staking or non-staking instead of normal, it will avoid confusion.

In my idea there are 2 type address,
Staking Address & Non-Staking Address

If I have 1000 coins in my staking address and send out to the exchange or even another address staking or non-staking, then the antidumping fee is charged as the transaction fee and sent to the Superflywallet.

If I have 1000 coins in my non-staking address , I can send to the exchange or even another address staking or non-staking , with no antidumping fees charged.
This also allows me to make a paper wallet without the fees.
or If an exchange to the cold wallet without fees.

What you need to realize is , I only pay antidumping fees when sending out from the staking address.

As far as the 1000 coins in the non-staking address , none were created there, I had to buy them on the exchange , if so it is no different , than if I had purchased 1000 coin on the exchange and let them sit, and just sold whenever the price went higher.
FYI: The antidumping fee has no effect in any version , if I just leave the coins on the exchange and sell/dump later, nothing can stop this if you allow an exchange.

If I staked the 1000 coins in my staking address and send them to my non-staking address in my own wallet, I am charge the antidumping fees,  But if I then send those coins from that non-staking address to the exchange, I am not being hit with the antidumping fee twice.

Clear?
 

FYI:
The antidumping fee only stop someone from staking and dumping all of the excess coins while keeping their principle amount.
When coins are stored in the non-staking address, they do not gain interest and when I sell , I lose that amount , and can not sell/dump continuously.

I would just make one change to this.  In order to sell our stakes we should be able to stake into our non-staking address for free.  That is the whole point of spreading the coins around.  Never touching the original amount and staking/selling on the exchange.

[Griffith]

I would just make one change to this.  In order to sell our stakes we should be able to stake into our non-staking address for free.  That is the whole point of spreading the coins around.  Never touching the original amount and staking/selling on the exchange.

this feature is available. you will be able to do this.

[kiklo]

I would just make one change to this.  In order to sell our stakes we should be able to stake into our non-staking address for free.  That is the whole point of spreading the coins around.  Never touching the original amount and staking/selling on the exchange.

That is the decision Team fly needs to make,
IMO that defeat's the antidumping fee, better to leave it.
Adjust the fee structure to keep the amounts small that move out of the staking address , otherwise you just put a gaping hole in the antidumping fee defenses, and if you do so what is the point in having an antidumping fee at all. Because if you don't make the antidumping fee firm, then you can just forget the whole thing and its is a regular coin, without bothering with the extra changes.

Basically if there is a loophole, there is no point in doing it with a fee, as everyone will use the loophole to bypass the fee.  


 

FYI :
It will be interesting to see what is chosen, sorry but allowing the loophole will imply greed not virtue and nullify the reason the antidumping fee was created to begin with.
If Team Fly considers the fee too harsh, then reexamine the fee structure.

[Griffith]

I would just make one change to this.  In order to sell our stakes we should be able to stake into our non-staking address for free.  That is the whole point of spreading the coins around.  Never touching the original amount and staking/selling on the exchange.

That is the decision Team fly needs to make,
IMO that defeat's the antidumping fee, better to leave it.
Adjust the fee structure to keep the amounts small that move out of the staking address , otherwise you just put a gaping hole in the antidumping fee defenses, and if you do so what is the point in having an antidumping fee at all. Because if you don't make the antidumping fee firm, then you can just forget the hold thing and its is a regular coin, without bothering with the extra changes.

Basically if there is a loophole, there is no point in doing it with a fee, as everyone will use the loophole to bypass the fee. 


 

vegas wants that option in the wallet so people will be able to sell the profits of the coins that they stake but the general funds they hold they arent able to sell without paying fees. so people can still make profit from the coin but it doesnt result in a lot of dumping.

its currently in the wallet already

[kiklo]

vegas wants that option in the wallet so people will be able to sell the profits of the coins that they stake but the general funds they hold they arent able to sell without paying fees. so people can still make profit from the coin but it doesnt result in a lot of dumping.

its currently in the wallet already

Sorry , but the whole system fails, if you leave that option in.
In fact it makes the whole thing Pointless?  

Just readjust the fees so small amounts are not hit with the fee and leave the security intact.