Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools...

[brg444]

bottom line, we need improvements, But still the answer is No you shouldn't aim for running  full nodes while running a full household worth of devices. I believe we should keep the limit such that a typical home connection can handle it with about 80% of the its bandwidth being utilized. this will be the upper limit which should never be crossed. and at the same time offer simi-full nodes that do something useful with only 10-20% of a typical home connection.

some improved incentives will also help, what's the point of running a "super node" that relay GB's of data per day? maybe miners would be willing to pay a small fee to connect to this node so that it gets blocks faster? or something!

Again, my connection and my hardware are no where close to "typical". You are, two days later, still syncing from 1 year behind? I sync the entire chain in 14 hours. My other household uses (frequent web browsing, occasional gaming and streaming video) take nowhere near the resources of Core.

If a Bitcoin enthusiast like myself, who spends money on hardware specifically to run a node, who has top tier internet speeds, can't run a full node at full capacity (without a dedicated line), I would say that the decentralization of the network has been harmed. (Of course, I am currently running multiple full nodes, but not at full capacity. My concern is increasing the data a node should share before making the system as efficient as possible.)

If you want to take off the training wheels, let's talk about it after we've got the pedals, chain, handlebars, and shifters in fantastic working order.

You envision a network where there are multiple implementations of the software based on the resources at hand. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless it raises the bar so much that the end user can no longer access the full censorship-proof nature of Bitcoin.

I envision a network that is able to function in a possible future where governments force ISPs to audit or even censor Bitcoin traffic. I don't think we will have truly censorship-proof money until the Bitcoin network is not only able, but actually functioning, on a global wireless mesh network that is entirely out of the reach of any entity that would wish to control it.

I want Bitcoin to function in a worst case scenario. This isn't a war to see who can provide the cheapest, most convenient transaction for buying a glass of wine, this is a war for financial freedom.

its only taking days to sync because i need to work all day on my computer and i cant have core eating 90% cpu while i work.
also i turn off my machine at night because it's hot in my room.


i think your exaggerating the resources core takes and that's why i'm sycning a full node, once the full node is synced i will see first hand if this hurts my streaming.

agreed we need improvements done before we up the limit.

i think your pushing the "war" thing a little to far, right now mostly all governments are OK with bitcoin.

How can you be so naive?

By exaggerating do you suggest Holliday is lying? What he's saying sounds plausible to me and certainly not anecdotal, there have been many reports of node owners experiencing similar problems.

Planning for "the war thing" is how you build security systems: assuming worst-case scenarios. Today's reality might be quite different from tomorrow's. Do you really expect governments of the world to let Bitcoin take over the world without putting up a fight?

honestly I expect them to embrace bitcoin as the banksters monopoly money fails them.

They've already starting to embrace it but much like everything they prefer to control it and there are quite some ways they can go about doing this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

[adamstgBit]

They've already starting to embrace it but much like everything they prefer to control it and there are quite some ways they can go about doing this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

wouldn't it be nice if US and China Etc all had million dollar projects trying to mine / acquire all the bitcoins

US and China devs would have to agree on protocol changes

i could live with that  

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

i'm currently syncing a full node and it feels like my computer is about to explode! cpu is running hot! hot! Hot!

Oh dear, are you running with the HCF flag set again? 

[Liquid71]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgjrS-BPWDQ&feature=youtu.be&t=12667

jgarzik suggests in his talk that Fidelity investment company has a beta bitcoin project which it is cannot turn on, because it would "max out" bitcoin capacity and future capacity growth is unknown



-----------

Also read:

https://medium.com/@OB1Company/scaling-bitcoin-9366988972b6

----------

Another good talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKDC2DpzNbw&t=26m30s

You're welcome. Bitcoin is now NOT Fidelity coin and not subject to the whims of politicians and regulators. It is still policy neutral and decentralized.

[knight22]

You're welcome. Bitcoin is now NOT Fidelity coin and not subject to the whims of politicians and regulators. It is still policy neutral and decentralized.

If bitcoin can't be used by businesses because it has capacity problems then bitcoin is going nowhere. That's nothing to do with being Fidelity coin or whatsoever.

[brg444]

You're welcome. Bitcoin is now NOT Fidelity coin and not subject to the whims of politicians and regulators. It is still policy neutral and decentralized.

If bitcoin can't be used by businesses because it has capacity problems then bitcoin is going nowhere. That's nothing to do with being Fidelity coin or whatsoever.

Bitcoin is not there to serve consumerism and businesses.

If you think it needs to fold to demands of corporations to succeed you never understood it in the first place.

For capacity there's FidelityCoin or VISAchain.

[knight22]

You're welcome. Bitcoin is now NOT Fidelity coin and not subject to the whims of politicians and regulators. It is still policy neutral and decentralized.

If bitcoin can't be used by businesses because it has capacity problems then bitcoin is going nowhere. That's nothing to do with being Fidelity coin or whatsoever.

Bitcoin is not there to serve consumerism and businesses.

If you think it needs to fold to demands of corporations to succeed you never understood it in the first place.

For capacity there's FidelityCoin or VISAchain.

Then enjoy your worthless Uselesscoin.

[brg444]

You're welcome. Bitcoin is now NOT Fidelity coin and not subject to the whims of politicians and regulators. It is still policy neutral and decentralized.

If bitcoin can't be used by businesses because it has capacity problems then bitcoin is going nowhere. That's nothing to do with being Fidelity coin or whatsoever.

Bitcoin is not there to serve consumerism and businesses.

If you think it needs to fold to demands of corporations to succeed you never understood it in the first place.

For capacity there's FidelityCoin or VISAchain.

Then enjoy your worthless Uselesscoin.

 

Right... digital gold... so useless.

You shills never cease to amaze me  

[knight22]

You're welcome. Bitcoin is now NOT Fidelity coin and not subject to the whims of politicians and regulators. It is still policy neutral and decentralized.

If bitcoin can't be used by businesses because it has capacity problems then bitcoin is going nowhere. That's nothing to do with being Fidelity coin or whatsoever.

Bitcoin is not there to serve consumerism and businesses.

If you think it needs to fold to demands of corporations to succeed you never understood it in the first place.

For capacity there's FidelityCoin or VISAchain.

Then enjoy your worthless Uselesscoin.

 

Right... digital gold... so useless.

You shills never cease to amaze me 

Digital gold... lmao

No one care about funny useless piece of bits unless maybe... you.
If you think the fiat power that be will ever care about useless bits they can't control you are highly delusional.

[Holliday]

its only taking days to sync because i need to work all day on my computer and i cant have core eating 90% cpu while i work.
also i turn off my machine at night because it's hot in my room.

i think your exaggerating the resources core takes and that's why i'm sycning a full node, once the full node is synced i will see first hand if this hurts my streaming.

You have to run 24/7 to see Core use the resources I'm talking about here. You need to have 60+ peers connected to you which you will never achieve if you constantly shut your node down. You need about a month of 100% uptime to get those results.

I have no reason to exaggerate Adam. I'm a Bitcoin enthusiast and I want this system to be robust. I would venture to guess that Bitcoin impacts my current and future financial situation far, far more than most people posting on this forum. But more important than that, I want the freedom to do as I see fit with my money. I'm not here calling for mainstream adoption so I can cash out and get rich. Not that I wouldn't mind Bitcoin being valued at what I think is appropriate for the utility it provides.

i think your pushing the "war" thing a little to far, right now mostly all governments are OK with bitcoin.

Let's not be naive and ignore the fact that increasing capital controls continue to be implemented by governments around the world.

[adamstgBit]

its only taking days to sync because i need to work all day on my computer and i cant have core eating 90% cpu while i work.
also i turn off my machine at night because it's hot in my room.

i think your exaggerating the resources core takes and that's why i'm sycning a full node, once the full node is synced i will see first hand if this hurts my streaming.

You have to run 24/7 to see Core use the resources I'm talking about here. You need to have 60+ peers connected to you which you will never achieve if you constantly shut your node down. You need about a month of 100% uptime to get those results.

I have no reason to exaggerate Adam. I'm a Bitcoin enthusiast and I want this system to be robust. I would venture to guess that Bitcoin impacts my current and future financial situation far, far more than most people posting on this forum. But more important than that, I want the freedom to do as I see fit with my money. I'm not here calling for mainstream adoption so I can cash out and get rich. Not that I wouldn't mind Bitcoin being valued at what I think is appropriate for the utility it provides.

i think your pushing the "war" thing a little to far, right now mostly all governments are OK with bitcoin.

Let's not be naive and ignore the fact that increasing capital controls continue to be implemented by governments around the world.

60+ peers that's the problem  

we need to take the bitcoin network from this:

to this:

[knight22]

its only taking days to sync because i need to work all day on my computer and i cant have core eating 90% cpu while i work.
also i turn off my machine at night because it's hot in my room.

i think your exaggerating the resources core takes and that's why i'm sycning a full node, once the full node is synced i will see first hand if this hurts my streaming.

You have to run 24/7 to see Core use the resources I'm talking about here. You need to have 60+ peers connected to you which you will never achieve if you constantly shut your node down. You need about a month of 100% uptime to get those results.

I have no reason to exaggerate Adam. I'm a Bitcoin enthusiast and I want this system to be robust. I would venture to guess that Bitcoin impacts my current and future financial situation far, far more than most people posting on this forum. But more important than that, I want the freedom to do as I see fit with my money. I'm not here calling for mainstream adoption so I can cash out and get rich. Not that I wouldn't mind Bitcoin being valued at what I think is appropriate for the utility it provides.

i think your pushing the "war" thing a little to far, right now mostly all governments are OK with bitcoin.

Let's not be naive and ignore the fact that increasing capital controls continue to be implemented by governments around the world.

Right but what's the point of financial freedom if you have no freedom to use your coins the way you want? Financial freedom is more than just escaping financial controls IMO.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Isn't that the distributed decentralised model?  Too many possible points of control. It wont work for bitcoin - nodes need to have the choice of getting to any node to be worthwhile.

edit:  meant to say decentralised, not distributed.

[Holliday]

how can they get such drastically different results 

60+ connections to really see the bandwidth use I'm talking about.

I've observed some really annoying nodes (non-full nodes) that connect and just terrorize my bandwidth. I'm trying to recall the version string of one such node but I can't off the top of my head. At one point I started banning individual IPs based on the type of node they were running and I saw a drastic improvement, but this ended up being too much work.

I've seen things like 6 nodes with the same IP and different ports connected to my node.

The usage isn't constant. It comes in huge spikes that last for hours (up to days) at a time. Then there will be several hours with much less bandwidth used.

I don't know if node age has anything to do with how much the network will use it, but I've been running mine for many years now with near 100% uptime.

[Holliday]

Right but what's the point of financial freedom if you have no freedom to use your coins the way you want? Financial freedom is more than just escaping financial controls IMO.

All transactions do not need to be censorship-proof in a world where censorship-proof transactions exist. The possibility of censorship-proof transactions by itself will cut down on censorship because it will be seen as futile.

[adamstgBit]

Isn't that the distributed model?  Too many possible points of control. It wont work for bitcoin - nodes need to have the choice of getting to any node to be worthwhile.

i disagree

as long as the network can re-adjust if they find a node is not behaving properly, this works just fine



we should look to get a decentralized model not distributed

[knight22]

Right but what's the point of financial freedom if you have no freedom to use your coins the way you want? Financial freedom is more than just escaping financial controls IMO.

All transactions do not need to be censorship-proof in a world where censorship-proof transactions exist. The possibility of censorship-proof transactions by itself will cut down on censorship because it will be seen as futile.

But bitcoin is not just about being censorship resistant. It's also about being frictionless programmable money.

Both are equally important.

[brg444]

its only taking days to sync because i need to work all day on my computer and i cant have core eating 90% cpu while i work.
also i turn off my machine at night because it's hot in my room.

i think your exaggerating the resources core takes and that's why i'm sycning a full node, once the full node is synced i will see first hand if this hurts my streaming.

You have to run 24/7 to see Core use the resources I'm talking about here. You need to have 60+ peers connected to you which you will never achieve if you constantly shut your node down. You need about a month of 100% uptime to get those results.

I have no reason to exaggerate Adam. I'm a Bitcoin enthusiast and I want this system to be robust. I would venture to guess that Bitcoin impacts my current and future financial situation far, far more than most people posting on this forum. But more important than that, I want the freedom to do as I see fit with my money. I'm not here calling for mainstream adoption so I can cash out and get rich. Not that I wouldn't mind Bitcoin being valued at what I think is appropriate for the utility it provides.

i think your pushing the "war" thing a little to far, right now mostly all governments are OK with bitcoin.

Let's not be naive and ignore the fact that increasing capital controls continue to be implemented by governments around the world.

60+ peers that's the problem  

we need to take the bitcoin network from this:

to this:

 

Seriously... stop drinking.

[Holliday]

Right but what's the point of financial freedom if you have no freedom to use your coins the way you want? Financial freedom is more than just escaping financial controls IMO.

All transactions do not need to be censorship-proof in a world where censorship-proof transactions exist. The possibility of censorship-proof transactions by itself will cut down on censorship because it will be seen as futile.

But bitcoin is not just about being censorship resistant. It's also about frictionless programmable money.

Both are equally important.

What are the use cases of frictionless programmable money? Why is it important? Why do we need to put those transactions on the same block chain that provides us with censorship-proof money? Does frictionless programmable money require the overhead of a permanent distributed ledger?

Most things (possibly everything) come with a trade off. If creating a good frictionless programmable money harms the censorship resistance, which do we choose?

[brg444]

Right but what's the point of financial freedom if you have no freedom to use your coins the way you want? Financial freedom is more than just escaping financial controls IMO.

All transactions do not need to be censorship-proof in a world where censorship-proof transactions exist. The possibility of censorship-proof transactions by itself will cut down on censorship because it will be seen as futile.

But bitcoin is not just about being censorship resistant. It's also about being frictionless programmable money.

Both are equally important.

Frictionless programmable money is impossible without censorship resistance