Petition: BFL SC Single should be 65Ghash and not 60Ghash

[PuertoLibre]

I like you Unacceptable. (You make a lot of funny points) Just consider that you shouldn't become a fan of any one company. Less so, if you are thinking about joining in to the idea of no longer willing to glean an edge over everyone else receiving their orders.

Personally the bickering on Bitcointalk is pretty funny. I like it when you all argue but sometimes people don't argue over the rational points of interests.

Why hasn't there been any recent talk of one user trying to gain an edge over others? Where is the spirit of competition?

Is everyone happy receiving the same? Why not at least question the status quo of the units you guys are getting? Lets shake things up .

Thanks!!

I try to see the lighter side of stuff,since life in general is a bitch...............

I'm not so much a fan of BFL,I just think they're offering is better than most.I have purchased from them in the past with minor issues,but nothing was a deal stopper. & will continue to do so in the future.I will also try to spread my money with other companies who's offer is close to thiers (warranty,trade ins,etc..).

I wish more people could talk like you and I are doing right now. (More in the center than at either extreme)

The only reason why I purchased from Avalon is because they had the options I was looking for. I wanted a stand alone system rather than a USB connected system. (More like DeepBits stand alones system than BFL's tethered systems...but at a fraction of the price.)

I see you have purchased from BFL before, so you know what their hardware is like and you know of the quality. So I understand your view on how some of the weird theories people talk about on Bitcointalk are _way out there_ and usually baseless. I have become rather desensitized to some of the bogus ideas floating around about BFL.

What worries me is the lack of a serious warranty on Avalons part. 1 Year is not alot. I also wonder what the fine print will be for BFL on what parts they cover for a lifetime vs what only has 6 months. (I think they stated the fan is only for 6 months)

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Honestly, with all these delays...I wouldn't be at all surprised if bASIC is the first to ship their products. They aren't modifying things anywhere near as constantly as the other two.

[ice_chill]

Hi, this thread is created in response to the new LITTLE SC Single that is advertised as a 30Ghash unit....

No response I've seen to this post tops this:

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Please re-read the thread 5 more times, and you might understand.

[Unacceptable]

I like you Unacceptable. (You make a lot of funny points) Just consider that you shouldn't become a fan of any one company. Less so, if you are thinking about joining in to the idea of no longer willing to glean an edge over everyone else receiving their orders.

Personally the bickering on Bitcointalk is pretty funny. I like it when you all argue but sometimes people don't argue over the rational points of interests.

Why hasn't there been any recent talk of one user trying to gain an edge over others? Where is the spirit of competition?

Is everyone happy receiving the same? Why not at least question the status quo of the units you guys are getting? Lets shake things up .

Thanks!!

I try to see the lighter side of stuff,since life in general is a bitch...............

I'm not so much a fan of BFL,I just think they're offering is better than most.I have purchased from them in the past with minor issues,but nothing was a deal stopper. & will continue to do so in the future.I will also try to spread my money with other companies who's offer is close to thiers (warranty,trade ins,etc..

I wish more people could talk like you and I are doing right now. (More in the center than at either extreme)

The only reason why I purchased from Avalon is because they had the options I was looking for. I wanted a stand alone system rather than a USB connected system. (More like DeepBits stand alones system than BFL's tethered systems...but at a fraction of the price.)

I see you have purchased from BFL before, so you know what their hardware is like and you know of the quality. So I understand your view on how some of the weird theories people talk about on Bitcointalk are _way out there_ and usually baseless. I have become rather desensitized to some of the bogus ideas floating around about BFL.

What worries me is the lack of a serious warranty on Avalons part. 1 Year is not alot. I also wonder what the fine print will be for BFL on what parts they cover for a lifetime vs what only has 6 months. (I think they stated the fan is only for 6 months)

-----------------------

Honestly, with all these delays...I wouldn't be at all surprised if bASIC is the first to ship their products. They aren't modifying things anywhere near as constantly as the other two.

It's not so much HOW you talk/communicate with each other as to WHAT you talk/communicate about  

Some of these theories that are brought up are very far outside "normal" thinking & just beg to be trolled....................

Good for you on going with who you prefered to order from  

BFL is far from perfect,but they've done right so far,as far as I'm concerned.The Sonny thing threw me a little,but after reading up on it,I thought "hes not the only one in charge,so I'll overlook it,until its proven otherwise".

1 year will be plenty,you're probably gonna want to upgrade to the next gen ASIC's before then anywho   Will they offer a trade in too,from the 1st gen  

BFL said,they'll do the trade in thing on the next gen,so that clinched it for me,+ maybe being first to mine with ASIC.............maybe/hopefully  

[crazyates]

Hi, this thread is created in response to the new LITTLE SC Single that is advertised as a 30Ghash unit....

No response I've seen to this post tops this:

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LOL +1

[ralree]

I'd hope rather than just randomly increasing the clock of the SC Single to appease us, they'll do thorough testing to determine the highest clock that's reliable (especially since there's a lifetime warranty).

[bce]

So, lets say I am a hard drive manufacturer with an 1000GB hard drive for $100, and a 2000GB hard drive for 200$

After you've already bought the first draft 2000GB non-watered-down premium version of the drive, you'd then demand I reduce my performance for the 1000GB after I've figured I'd have some excess level of board and enclosure production?  Even if I just wanted to make available a 2 platter drive for the masses?   Wow...  Am I, the manufacturer, supposed to cave to some wave of DB protest? Only a scam would react to you in the way you want, ice chill.  I'm glad Josh / Inaba made things clear.  BTW, this isn't a Walmart return desk -  It's a pioneering place in the formation of the world's first established peer to peer cryptocurrency.

[Unacceptable]

So, lets say I am a hard drive manufacturer with an 1000GB hard drive for $100, and a 2000GB hard drive for 200$

After you've already bought the first draft 2000GB non-watered-down premium version of the drive, you'd then demand I reduce my price for the 1000GB after I've figured I'd have some excess level of board and enclosure production?  Even if I just wanted to make available a 2 platter drive for the masses?   Wow...  Am I, the manufacturer, supposed to cave to some wave of DB protest? Only a scam would react to you in the way you want, ice chill.  I'm glad Josh / Inaba made things clear.  BTW, this isn't a Walmart return desk -  It's a pioneering place in the formation of the world's first established peer to peer cryptocurrency.

  Wow,he's only got 13 posts & he came up with that  

I'm impressed,bravo  

[creativex]

Wow,he's only got 13 posts & he came up with that  

I'm impressed,bravo  

He's umm...been here longer than you. 

[Unacceptable]

Wow,he's only got 13 posts & he came up with that  

I'm impressed,bravo  

He's umm...been here longer than you. 

Sure nuff !!!!!!!!! I didn't check his profile 

No wonder he's so smart 

[bce]

Long time lurker, infrequent poster    Stopping in to check on the forums during this last year has been entertaining, but what I have to say is usually answered by reading other posts.   However, this thread is especially stupid.  It's good to finally be a part of it

[thorvald]

Long time lurker, infrequent poster    Stopping in to check on the forums during this last year has been entertaining, but what I have to say is usually answered by reading other posts.   However, this thread is especially stupid.  It's good to finally be a part of it

+2

[mybitcoincharts]

Second, it's not the $1 that matters, but value for money, which comes in the form of redundancy: if a Single fails and has to be sent back to BFL for repair, than it's better to have 2x30Ghash units than 1x60Ghash.

I'd say its the other way: Considering each complete unit has about the same probability of failure over a given timeframe, with 2*30GHash units you have double the probability of failure than with 1x60Ghash. I therefore demand the 1x60Ghash unit to be downclocked to 55Gh/s to reflect the time and money saved through lower failure rates   

[PuertoLibre]

Second, it's not the $1 that matters, but value for money, which comes in the form of redundancy: if a Single fails and has to be sent back to BFL for repair, than it's better to have 2x30Ghash units than 1x60Ghash.

I'd say its the other way: Considering each complete unit has about the same probability of failure over a given timeframe, with 2*30GHash units you have double the probability of failure than with 1x60Ghash. I therefore demand the 1x60Ghash unit to be downclocked to 55Gh/s to reflect the time and money saved through lower failure rates   

Actually, running a cooler system would reduce the failure rate. If that is the case then a 30Gh/s would have a lower fail rate on heat load alone...wouldn't it?

The only macro-level parts "moving" in a BFL system is probably the fans that cool the system. The electronics themselves are produced using the same method and process. If BFLs failure rate were 1 in 10 units. Then doubling the number of units to 2 would increase your odds of a failure to 2 in 20. But you would have a 18 in 20 chance that the hardware would be fine through its "useful life".

If a person makes an argument that doubling something increases the failure rate then they are admitting that the hardware itself has a very high rate of failure.

The argument used in [redundant] RAID configurations is built on the idea of increasing redundancy removes any one point of failure. It is also why most servers have more than 1 power supply for fail over.

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If you have 1 Single SC and you suffer a single failure you are down. Period.

If you have 2 Little Single then you suffer from one point of failure and still take in Bitcoins at a reduced rate. (But mining continues regardless).

I wasn't originally going to say anything but some of the ideas expressed previously in this and other threads are not well founded.

[PuertoLibre]

[Speculation]
I have been thinking it over for some time.

What I think might have happened is that the old 40Gh/s rigs were probably not converted to 60Gh/s rigs. They were probably flashed....down to 30Gh/s. Hence the sudden introduction of the Little SC.

Meanwhile the new 60Gh/s Single SC probably comes from either a higher performing second batch of chips or from a second batch that is still in the process of being fabricated.

If you re-read the statement from BFL_Josh (Inaba) this hypothesis makes some sense.

They paid extra to expedite their ASIC run through the chip plant. Then he states that they had to adjust and carefully consider some of the components that make up the boards in the updated 60Gh/s systems.

If it were simply a straightforward flash of firmware...why mention the hardware components being sourced. Shouldn't that have been an issue in the prior stage of the development process?

----------------------------

It sounds to me like there are actually two batches of boards and they are (realistically speaking) almost identical except for a few minor hardware changes in components and the firmware revisions.

The reason that BFL probably doesn't want to double the amount of Little Singles (at this time) being ordered is because they don't have enough formerly 40GH/s systems that have been downgraded (if my hypothesis is correct). Clearly they would need to get rid of their overstock of previously spec'ed hardware at 40Gh/s. (Now re-spec'ed at 30Gh/s)

Which means turning lemons into lemonade by offering it to their Jalapeno customers as a free "upgrade". If that is the case, then it is a good way to offload a bunch of Single SCs that would never have made the 60Gh/s spec without changing parts to support the higher electrical load.

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Here is the kicker though. What if BFL has tons of jalapenos laying around? I assume the bulk of their orders are for Jalapenos since they are significantly cheaper to the community.

If my speculation holds water, and they are giving the first downgraded Singles at $650. Either they are accepting a major loss, or the Singles are much cheaper to make than anyone realizes. Certainly cheaper than half the $1299 price.

If all this is anywhere near true, (and it is just speculation) then in the future they will have to give the jalapenos away at a cheaper price than $150. Unless they want to sit on stock that isn't going anywhere fast.

It also would mean that the Little Single owners are likely to get their orders first OR that BFL has them sitting in cartons sitting in some warehouse and is actually waiting for the 60Gh/s batch to finish being assembled. Which if so, means delays and missing the October and possibly November delivery dates.

[mybitcoincharts]

Actually, running a cooler system would reduce the failure rate. If that is the case then a 30Gh/s would have a lower fail rate on heat load alone...wouldn't it?

If that is the case, then mostly yes, but I my experience that seldom is the case If the user does not extremely overclock her devices, in my experience the most common part of electronics to have a defect are capacitors and/or other parts of voltage regulation on a board. Considering that the 30Gh/s units will be mostly the same as the 60Gh/s ones (except the number of asics), the more units the user has the more capacitors etc she has, each having the same probability of failure. Double the capacitors in your system, and you double that probabilty.

[michaelmclees]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if the 30GH units were identical in every way to the 60GH units, except that there are 4 processors instead of 8... which could be manually placed if you could get a hold of them.

[mybitcoincharts]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if the 30GH units were identical in every way to the 60GH units, except that there are 4 processors instead of 8... which could be manually placed if you could get a hold of them.

Actually I am pretty sure that's how they will look like. They could even be completely identical from the outside, the only difference being the  30Hh/s unit has some faulty cores disabled.

[michaelmclees]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if the 30GH units were identical in every way to the 60GH units, except that there are 4 processors instead of 8... which could be manually placed if you could get a hold of them.

Actually I am pretty sure that's how they will look like. They could even be completely identical from the outside, the only difference being the  30Hh/s unit has some faulty cores disabled.

Maybe we can get them to sell us the chips for $10 a piece and we can build our own PCB's.

[Kaliecious]

already asked, they wont

[firefop]

speechless, I am simply speechless. 

It looks like at least 1 good thing came from this thread.