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Author Topic: ASIC Miners have screwed me over.  (Read 4756 times)
mesquka
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October 16, 2012, 01:09:22 PM
 #1

I have just bought a new Graphics card for bitcoin mining and realized that ASIC's were going to be released in a short while. Shocked
Graphics card overheats from over clocking and knowing the cable for the cooling fan out while installing sound card leaving me with a nvida geforce 840gs.  Cry
I want to get into the Bitcoin mining business. Any ideas?
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October 16, 2012, 01:13:49 PM
 #2

there is no "business" mining bitcoins any longer, that ship has sailed, get a job

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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October 16, 2012, 01:26:57 PM
 #3

I have just bought a new Graphics card for bitcoin mining and realized that ASIC's were going to be released in a short while. Shocked

Yes the small-time gpu miner ship probably sailed for good. I hope you have learned from this and inform yourself about something in the future before you run and spend money on it.

I want to get into the Bitcoin mining business. Any ideas?

You can still buy (prepurchase) a Asic. Although you might consider my statement above. You will probably just be better of buying BTC.

All previous versions of currency will no longer be supported as of this update
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October 18, 2012, 02:14:23 AM
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Always fun to take a chance.
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October 18, 2012, 05:05:25 PM
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get a job

Not a politically correct polite expression during recessions depressions (and the job market is exceptionally severe).

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October 18, 2012, 05:29:14 PM
 #6

get a job

Not a politically correct expression during recessions (and the job market is exceptionally severe).

OK fine, blow all available capital on a mining farm...or better yet zeek rewards, oh wait...

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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October 18, 2012, 05:35:38 PM
 #7

politically correct

I hire people to follow people using that phrase and hit them upon the back of their heads. Anyone interested in that job, please send 10 BTC to the adress below to receive your first target and equipment.
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October 18, 2012, 05:49:34 PM
 #8

politically correct

I hire people to follow people using that phrase and hit them upon the back of their heads. Anyone interested in that job, please send 10 BTC to the adress below to receive your first target and equipment.

Now now, there's nothing wrong with a bit of PC. Cheesy Granted, too much is toxic, as with anything.

I'm not generally obsessed with PC myself but telling people to "get a job" is just not good form in economic times like these, especially. There are no jobs, or at least employers tend to have excessive requirements - because they can, basically. Loops back to that "economy" thing again. Companies might not all be laying off their staff, but they're concerned about the economic future and want to conserve as much moolah as possible and therefore are being extraordinarily stingy about hiring, thus high unemployment and lack of new job opportunities. Some think it's as bad as the 1930s now but whether they're right or not, the principle of "depression economics" is clear.

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October 18, 2012, 06:07:14 PM
 #9

Competition in mining, like in any industry, will mean that the average person is unable to make a profit. Only those who invest the most time, are the most efficient, and stay ahead of the curve will make money long term with Bitcoin mining, and this should be expected.
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October 18, 2012, 06:11:33 PM
 #10

Competition in mining, like in any industry, will mean that the average person is unable to make a profit. Only those who invest the most time, are the most efficient, and stay ahead of the curve will make money long term with Bitcoin mining, and this should be expected.

+1

Bitcoin mining isn't a get-rich-quick scheme, nor is Bitcoin itself for that matter. But if it was, it'd probably seem too good to be true and thus not be true. Grin

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October 18, 2012, 06:30:06 PM
 #11

Competition in mining, like in any industry, will mean that the average person is unable to make a profit. Only those who invest the most time, are the most efficient, and stay ahead of the curve will make money long term with Bitcoin mining, and this should be expected.

+1

Bitcoin mining isn't a get-rich-quick scheme, nor is Bitcoin itself for that matter. But if it was, it'd probably seem too good to be true and thus not be true. Grin
+1

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October 18, 2012, 06:57:22 PM
 #12

Bitcoin mining isn't a get-rich-quick scheme, nor is Bitcoin itself for that matter.

Damn.
We need a pyramid cryptocurrency stat.
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October 18, 2012, 09:31:38 PM
 #13

Bitcoin mining isn't a get-rich-quick scheme, nor is Bitcoin itself for that matter.

Damn.
We need a pyramid cryptocurrency stat.

There have got to be one or two good ways to start a Ponzi scheme with Bitcoin... Grin

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October 19, 2012, 03:54:52 AM
 #14

get a life
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October 19, 2012, 06:42:07 AM
 #15

Bitcoin mining isn't a get-rich-quick scheme, nor is Bitcoin itself for that matter.

Damn.
We need a pyramid cryptocurrency stat.

There have got to be one or two good ways to start a Ponzi scheme with Bitcoin... Grin

Start a reverse Ponzi scheme where the guys who get in first receives less than the guys they recruit. If they want to continue to get paid, they must recruit more members, and the members whom they recruited don't receive the higher reward until they recruit X. Call it the RMLPS (reverse multi-level Ponzi scheme): Turning your network upside down.

(tired and going to bed, so if the above doesn't make sense, this is why)
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October 19, 2012, 03:42:02 PM
 #16

How much are ASIC miners going for at present? I have seen figures for ROI on them as low as 10 days, is that at the current difficulty or the expected difficulty when they are released?

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October 19, 2012, 04:02:07 PM
 #17

I have just bought a new Graphics card for bitcoin mining and realized that ASIC's were going to be released in a short while. Shocked
Graphics card overheats from over clocking and knowing the cable for the cooling fan out while installing sound card leaving me with a nvida geforce 840gs.  Cry
I want to get into the Bitcoin mining business. Any ideas?

Buy ASIC. Buy one of -these-.

Gamble like the rest of us did when we bought piles of GPU's that we'd pay them off in 12 months.. Most of us did.  After the dust settles, enjoy the coin earned every month, and congratulate yourself for being willing the take the risk.

In the mean time, talk to your friends, come up with new ways to spend/use/promote bitcoin so that the coin you earn has more value.





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October 19, 2012, 04:11:31 PM
 #18

Dlasher - conservatively, how long before a jalapeno earns you the $160 back? Same question for the 60Gh model? Also what is the delivery ETA on these items?

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October 19, 2012, 05:32:23 PM
 #19

Dlasher - conservatively, how long before a jalapeno earns you the $160 back? Same question for the 60Gh model? Also what is the delivery ETA on these items?

Conservatively? 12 months.

Same all models, since they have -about- the same $-per-Ghash rate, approximately.

Delivery ETA is mid-to-end of November for Round 1, and guessing Mid-to-end of December for Round 2.
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October 19, 2012, 05:43:55 PM
 #20

Conservatively? 12 months.

Same all models, since they have -about- the same $-per-Ghash rate, approximately.

Delivery ETA is mid-to-end of November for Round 1, and guessing Mid-to-end of December for Round 2.

Conservative indeed: I think early ASIC adopters have a good chance at a much shorter RoI than that. If you're more interested in holding than selling mined coin (which I am), then this period is of less significance, of course.

Thing is, who knows what a BTC will be worth in fiat terms six, twelve or howevermany months down the line? That might be even tougher to estimate than the difficulty level.

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October 20, 2012, 01:15:32 AM
 #21

if ASIC is a SCAM what will everyone do?

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October 20, 2012, 01:16:09 AM
 #22

and ASIC's are too GOOD to be TRUE.

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October 20, 2012, 04:48:38 AM
 #23

Wait, how are asics not going to work again? I work off of facts. Sorry. I ordered a single from butterfly labs and I expect to make a lot!! 40 GH/S baby!
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October 20, 2012, 06:14:54 AM
 #24

I ordered the bASIC. Bitcoin aint just for the few bucks I get but also for the fun of it.

Looking forward to the ASIC way of mining.

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October 20, 2012, 11:03:03 AM
 #25

I ordered the bASIC. Bitcoin aint just for the few bucks I get but also for the fun of it.

And we're doing a service to the community at some risk to ourselves in these ventures. That's what justifies the possible profit. It's not "free moniez". Smiley

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October 20, 2012, 12:25:07 PM
 #26

Some of the numbers people keep saying about how much you can mine with an ASIC setup seem to vary wildly so I'm not really sure what to think about it. I'm going to wait for them to drop then consider if I really want to get into mining. I have access to a lot of unused server racks at my job so I'll just let everyone else figure out how it all works out then jump in later. Smiley
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October 20, 2012, 12:32:35 PM
 #27

Some of the numbers people keep saying about how much you can mine with an ASIC setup seem to vary wildly so I'm not really sure what to think about it. I'm going to wait for them to drop then consider if I really want to get into mining. I have access to a lot of unused server racks at my job so I'll just let everyone else figure out how it all works out then jump in later. Smiley

Too sensible. Smiley I'm a gambler so I love to jump in and take a calculated risk when I see one. Losing is always a possibility but this seems less risky than the casino TBH.

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October 20, 2012, 04:05:15 PM
 #28

Awesome

politically correct

I hire people to follow people using that phrase and hit them upon the back of their heads. Anyone interested in that job, please send 10 BTC to the adress below to receive your first target and equipment.

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October 20, 2012, 04:58:06 PM
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I'm just impressed that conservatives now how to use a computer. Let alone bitcoin.... Do trailer parks give out free wifi now?
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October 20, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
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Meh, hang out a while here and you'll learn pretty quick that most so-called libertarians or anarchists on this site are in fact nothing but conservatives, that were just born on the wrong side of the money spout. They're not so much about getting rid of control of the masses, but instead much more about being the ones doing the controlling in this new coin order.
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October 20, 2012, 06:59:39 PM
 #31

Not me. I don't want to control anyone else, that would break the non-aggression principle.

Of course, deep down inside, every one of us has our inner fascist: if we could do it without consequence, of course we would all love to mould the world in our countenance?

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October 22, 2012, 03:23:55 PM
 #32

Competition in mining, like in any industry, will mean that the average person is unable to make a profit. Only those who invest the most time, are the most efficient, and stay ahead of the curve will make money long term with Bitcoin mining, and this should be expected.

+1

Bitcoin mining isn't a get-rich-quick scheme, nor is Bitcoin itself for that matter. But if it was, it'd probably seem too good to be true and thus not be true. Grin

+1

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October 22, 2012, 06:23:12 PM
 #33

Not me. I don't want to control anyone else, that would break the non-aggression principle.

Of course, deep down inside, every one of us has our inner fascist: if we could do it without consequence, of course we would all love to mould the world in our countenance?

+1. What bought me to libertarianism is the internalization of the idea that I should treat others as I would hope to be treated myself. Of course, I know that I'm special and that everything I know is right (at least until I change my mind) and if I was grand leader of the world, things would be peachy for everyone forever but I wouldn't (and don't) feel that way about others who would aspire to that position so the fairest thing is if we all leave each other alone as much as possible to achieve success and happiness in our own ways.

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October 22, 2012, 08:38:15 PM
 #34

Unfortunately there is no way to stop the progress.  The same thing happened when GPUs made CPU mining obsolete.

Just curious, do you remember what happened to the price around this time?
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October 22, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
 #35

Just take a look at forums.butterflylabs.com - its full of trolls, asshamsters and deluded people.

I am in no way affiliated with Butterfly Labs. The BFL in my nick stands for Bass Fishing League.
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October 22, 2012, 11:30:05 PM
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Just take a look at forums.butterflylabs.com - its full of trolls, asshamsters and deluded people.
Well well, if it isn't Frizz23 with his personality disorder. AKA troll BFl_Mitt, now BFL_Obama on the ButterFly Labs forum, and now here as BFL_Lab_rat, and Frizz32 of course. Have you cancelled that BFL order yet? Oh wait, you just made that order up, didn't you? So, who is the diluted asshamster troll now, Frusty32?

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October 23, 2012, 04:27:49 AM
 #37

Just take a look at forums.butterflylabs.com - its full of trolls, asshamsters and deluded people.

What the hell is an 'asshamster', is that what Americans call a Tampax?

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October 23, 2012, 05:46:00 AM
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Interesting!!! I bought one of the BFL single SC and a jala.

Am I part of the problem or part of the solution?
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October 23, 2012, 03:16:52 PM
 #39

Just take a look at forums.butterflylabs.com - its full of trolls, asshamsters and deluded people.

What the hell is an 'asshamster', is that what Americans call a Tampax?


Something that Richard Gere (according to myth and legend) likes having jammed up his ass.

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October 24, 2012, 10:34:05 AM
 #40

Conservatively? 12 months.

Same all models, since they have -about- the same $-per-Ghash rate, approximately.

Delivery ETA is mid-to-end of November for Round 1, and guessing Mid-to-end of December for Round 2.

Conservative indeed: I think early ASIC adopters have a good chance at a much shorter RoI than that. If you're more interested in holding than selling mined coin (which I am), then this period is of less significance, of course.

Thing is, who knows what a BTC will be worth in fiat terms six, twelve or howevermany months down the line? That might be even tougher to estimate than the difficulty level.
Assuming ASICs are real, yeah, ROI will be pretty short for those receiving batch #1. Mining coins at insane speeds before a change in difficulty occurs, mad profitable. Estimating value vs fiat is tricky. Most people want to be optimistic and make the assumption that with steep rise in difficulty, and the block reward being halved, BTC value will also go up. Realistically, all I can see happening is market flooding with freshly minted coin as ASICs will be pooping them out as if they had Taco Bell the evening prior. I'm not sure how the block reward being halved will affect the market. For miners there will be a drastic activity change in how one determines to shut off hardware or not. Sadly the major players in the market aren't miners, they're just buyers/sellers/traders and for all intensive purposes may not even be aware of the upcoming change to the block reward. If I had to guess, I'd say with regret, that BTC value will likely go down instead of up as a result of ASICs hitting the market.
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October 24, 2012, 03:51:35 PM
 #41

I don't know about the exchange rate falling, but that would just open up opportunities to buy up even more BTC. Smiley

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October 24, 2012, 04:00:16 PM
 #42

Conservatively? 12 months.

Same all models, since they have -about- the same $-per-Ghash rate, approximately.

Delivery ETA is mid-to-end of November for Round 1, and guessing Mid-to-end of December for Round 2.

Conservative indeed: I think early ASIC adopters have a good chance at a much shorter RoI than that. If you're more interested in holding than selling mined coin (which I am), then this period is of less significance, of course.

Thing is, who knows what a BTC will be worth in fiat terms six, twelve or howevermany months down the line? That might be even tougher to estimate than the difficulty level.
Assuming ASICs are real, yeah, ROI will be pretty short for those receiving batch #1. Mining coins at insane speeds before a change in difficulty occurs, mad profitable. Estimating value vs fiat is tricky. Most people want to be optimistic and make the assumption that with steep rise in difficulty, and the block reward being halved, BTC value will also go up. Realistically, all I can see happening is market flooding with freshly minted coin as ASICs will be pooping them out as if they had Taco Bell the evening prior. I'm not sure how the block reward being halved will affect the market. For miners there will be a drastic activity change in how one determines to shut off hardware or not. Sadly the major players in the market aren't miners, they're just buyers/sellers/traders and for all intensive purposes may not even be aware of the upcoming change to the block reward. If I had to guess, I'd say with regret, that BTC value will likely go down instead of up as a result of ASICs hitting the market.
It's not going to be a huge increase in the normally minted number of coins.  I'd say 5000 BTC will be mined faster than normal because of ASIC release and lag before increases in difficulty, but that's not a huge amount, and certainly not large enough to devalue BTC overall (especially considering the vast majority of miners simply hold their coins).
hardcore-fs
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October 25, 2012, 11:56:20 PM
 #43

The real issue is going to be with 'solo' mining.
There will be a far higher probability of the ASICS hitting the final key for a block of 50/25 bit coins, purely because of the extra speed, no matter what the difficulty.

With the addition of a bit of criminal coding, it would be possible to target blocks that were close to completion.


HC

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SgtSpike
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October 26, 2012, 12:37:13 AM
 #44

The real issue is going to be with 'solo' mining.
There will be a far higher probability of the ASICS hitting the final key for a block of 50/25 bit coins, purely because of the extra speed, no matter what the difficulty.

With the addition of a bit of criminal coding, it would be possible to target blocks that were close to completion.


HC
No block is ever "close to completion".  You need to read up on how mining works a bit more.
hardcore-fs
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October 26, 2012, 01:15:54 AM
 #45


Possibly mis-read it,

I thought that a 'block' was submitted to the network and then the miners compete to solve the blocks final key.
Since the 'difficulty' is designed to prolong the solving of a block, it makes sense that there is a higher probability for blocks that have been processed for longer are closer to being solved (yep I do understand a client can stumble on the solution at any time, just as i can buy a winning mark 6 ticket the first time)

But the longer the block is processed the less is the probability for getting a 'wrong'(non-final solution) is less?


HC

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SgtSpike
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October 26, 2012, 02:23:52 AM
 #46


Possibly mis-read it,

I thought that a 'block' was submitted to the network and then the miners compete to solve the blocks final key.
Since the 'difficulty' is designed to prolong the solving of a block, it makes sense that there is a higher probability for blocks that have been processed for longer are closer to being solved (yep I do understand a client can stumble on the solution at any time, just as i can buy a winning mark 6 ticket the first time)

But the longer the block is processed the less is the probability for getting a 'wrong'(non-final solution) is less?


HC

No, it doesn't matter how long a block has been in process, it has the exact same change at getting mined in the next second as it did 10 minutes ago.

It's like trying to roll a die and hit 1.  No matter how many times you roll, you have the exact same chance at hitting 1 the next roll as you did for all the prior rolls.
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October 26, 2012, 03:20:50 AM
 #47

I have difficulty believing that, since the Hash is a finite length and the solution is a finite length.
Then there are only a given number of additions that can be made to the base, before either a solution is found OR the block cannot be solved....

0000000134712207fb6b0a73e3f600cdaf7438c9a704b6311332cfb30000029300000000550e0d5 641a329d50ccfc3d0d409a6580fd2a326c6f6a07009d864f3a98c14b35089ff931a0575ef
0000000134712207fb6b0a73e3f600cdaf7438c9a704b6311332cfb30000029300000000550e0d5 641a329d50ccfc3d0d409a6580fd2a326c6f6a07009d864f3a98c14b35089ff931a0575ef:11bf5712
BTCGuild  accepted share 11bf5712 (difficulty 3.81158)


Since the "goal" is to get the top bytes of the hash equal to  00000000
The issue is that you do not know how many "corrections" have to be added before you get a solution.

as in:
hit <= '1' when outerhash(255 downto 224) = x"00000000"  else '0';

gives us a "correction" of  11bf5712, the minimum possible correction is '00000000' the max 'FFFFFFFF'

If the  "correction' had the possibility to be infinite, then your comparison to throwing a die, may be accurate, unless I'm missing something like the initial hash is unique for each  work search per user.

I.E the  goal is actually:
BASE_Hash + MYPERSONALKEY+correction

HC

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October 26, 2012, 03:27:47 AM
 #48

I have difficulty believing that, since the Hash is a finite length and the solution is a finite length.
Then there are only a given number of additions that can be made to the base, before either a solution is found OR the block cannot be solved....

0000000134712207fb6b0a73e3f600cdaf7438c9a704b6311332cfb30000029300000000550e0d5 641a329d50ccfc3d0d409a6580fd2a326c6f6a07009d864f3a98c14b35089ff931a0575ef
0000000134712207fb6b0a73e3f600cdaf7438c9a704b6311332cfb30000029300000000550e0d5 641a329d50ccfc3d0d409a6580fd2a326c6f6a07009d864f3a98c14b35089ff931a0575ef:11bf5712
BTCGuild  accepted share 11bf5712 (difficulty 3.81158)


Since the "goal" is to get the top bytes of the hash equal to  00000000
The issue is that you do not know how many "corrections" have to be added before you get a solution.

as in:
hit <= '1' when outerhash(255 downto 224) = x"00000000"  else '0';

gives us a "correction" of  11bf5712, the minimum possible correction is '00000000' the max 'FFFFFFFF'

If the  "correction' had the possibility to be infinite, then your comparison to throwing a die, may be accurate, unless I'm missing something like the initial hash is unique for each  work search per user.

I.E the  goal is actually:
BASE_Hash + MYPERSONALKEY+correction

HC

You're missing that there may not be a "correction" that gives the hash you're looking for.  Each hash is completely random, and though there is a nonce included as part of the calculation, the entire range of nonces is calculated in a matter of seconds by the average hasher.  BFL's new SC Single, for example, will run through a typical nonce range in 70ms.

Technically, the entire network could hash for millions of years and never come across the right hash.  It would be extraordinarily unlikely, but there is no limited range to search, as you suggest.
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November 02, 2012, 05:04:47 PM
 #49

I have just bought a new Graphics card for bitcoin mining and realized that ASIC's were going to be released in a short while. Shocked
Graphics card overheats from over clocking and knowing the cable for the cooling fan out while installing sound card leaving me with a nvida geforce 840gs.  Cry
I want to get into the Bitcoin mining business. Any ideas?

They say the ship has sailed for gpu miners which is true but you got a decent pc. there's still hope for you yet.
1. learn how to use the TOR network and find some tor sites they tend to lead to more tor sites.
2. you could grind a couple btc and ltc with what you got do it before its too late. buy some btc too not many just some.
3. find a tor site that sells credit card account from hacked databases.
4. Through tor and learning how to be 120% anonymous purchase more btc with then cc it can be done easy if you read alot. then launder the btc.
5. once you got enough btc setup a btc trading exchange
6 be legit for a month or so
7.Then RIPOFF the greedy fuckers from this forum. Just ask pirate he knows and is still laughing at these fools.
8. Profit Cheesy!!!!!
9 the point is there is always another route And there are some real greedy people if you even want to refer to them as people.....and you will hook-em good. Just think about it there are people who devoted their home and life to gpu farming. Due to the fact they are lazy as fuck and greedy as fuck. just look at the asics situation.... People with their life savings spent on something that's not even been built yet. With hope of staying ahead of the pack just so they can greed mine the shit out of btc. its pathetic. No wonder so many people have been ripped off before. Bitcoin is the HACKERS Currency not theirs. You don't even have to got down that route to get btc either. All you need is a good exploit pack and pickpocket bot hell get a mining bot while you are at it. Let these idiots do all the work for you.
Just a thought from reading and lurking here. Oh yes just as people pool resources to mine btc there are hackers pooling theirs to crack passwords as well. Encrypted wallets can be cracked....But why waste time brute-forcing when you can use a key-logger? ;)That is all.


Happy Hunting.

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November 09, 2012, 11:00:59 AM
 #50

It has seen constant and steady growth for almost 2 years now,The probability of the Bitcoin market collapsing is pretty slim at thispoint.nd the prices per difficulty are beginning to stabilize.

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November 10, 2012, 11:21:55 AM
 #51

What if BF are just promising these returns to keep people out of the market so they can continue with the current difficulty?
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November 10, 2012, 03:09:32 PM
 #52

I have been happy with the mining I've been doing with a bfl minirig.  Even though the ASIC miners will render my minirig obsolete, I embrace the innovation.  I'm also on the preorder list for new ASICs when they ship in early December.
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November 22, 2012, 09:20:24 AM
 #53

*sigh*

What I ment is I just fried my graphics cards which I have been using to mine on for awhile now. Cards fry coz of over clocking/bad ventilation. I want to know what ASIC I should buy. NOT JALAPEÑO when hashing rate goes up, and I've checked my maths, I will be earning $4.90 a day.

Anyway, stuff ASIC's, I have a 8x5850 mining rig setup now I use for Bitcoin's until ASIC's ship, then mine Litecoins on them with cgminer.

*thread closed*
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