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Author Topic: CryptoNote technical discussion and Chess Challenge  (Read 96046 times)
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boolberry (OP)
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September 26, 2015, 05:47:10 AM
Last edit: February 24, 2017, 01:39:51 AM by boolberry
 #1

CryptoNote technical discussion
Most legitimate CryptoNote projects are on friendly terms. Much of the content below is Monero related solely because it is the largest, most actively developed CryptoNote coin. This thread is coin agnostic, so if you have relevant content that I can add, please let me know! Specifically I would love to add links or concise descriptions of Aeon innovations below.

Monero (CryptoNote)
https://getmonero.org/
https://downloads.getmonero.org/whitepaper_review.pdf
https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf
https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0002.pdf
https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0003.pdf
https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0004.pdf
https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0005.pdf (must read)
https://github.com/Monero-project/research-lab/commit/60a63a3b5d3f50afd504a76193925f0a132b7bb4 (new)

Monero yesterday completed its first planned hard fork, implementing several changes:
1. Block time 1 minute -> 2 minutes (with block reward also doubled)
2. Minimum block size increased to 60 KB (50% increase from the previous 20 KB considering the block time change)
3. Minimum mixin requirement on all transactions (with some special exceptions for existing "dust")
4. No new "dust" allowed.
"dust" being defined as
anything not conforming to N * 10^M where N is 1-9 and M is an integer.

Boolberry (CryptoNote)
http://boolberry.com/
http://boolberry.com/theory.html
http://boolberry.com/files/Boolberry_Solves_CryptoNote_Flaws.pdf  (Monero has improved upon this as of Jan 2016 with a min mixin)
http://boolberry.org/files/Boolberry_Reduces_Blockchain_Bloat.pdf (Aeon has improved on the Boolberry approach to pruning)

Aeon (CryptoNote)
http://www.aeon.cash/
http://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/832/does-aeon-have-a-development-roadmap
http://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/1393/what-is-the-aeon-currency
https://github.com/aeonix/aeon/releases/tag/v0.9.7.1 (new release with preliminary code for future RingCT support)

Below are some alternatives each with strengths and weaknesses of their own. Some are highly theoretical and do not yet exist. I am ignoring CoinJoin (which many coins are based on) for the moment as it offers by far the weakest privacy (compared to CryptoNote, Zerocash and Confidential Transactions) and is being improved upon with CoinShuffle.

Zerocash
http://zerocash-project.org/paper
https://github.com/Electric-Coin-Company/zcash/wiki/specification
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/41vg68/monero_vs_zcash_eli5_fundamental_differences/

Confidential Transactions
https://github.com/ElementsProject/secp256k1-zkp

CoinShuffle
http://crypsys.mmci.uni-saarland.de/projects/CoinShuffle/coinshuffle.pdf

Monero vs. Boolberry Chess Challenge
This thread will not only be about CryptoNote technical discussion. We are also here to have fun and play chess!

The idea for this game came from someone on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3lwro6/chess_challenge/

Players from all levels are welcome. If you don't know the rules of chess start below, then return and ask questions:
http://www.chess.com/learn-how-to-play-chess

I made the thread moderated for one reason. I want to prevent people from purposely recommending or voting for bad moves with the goal to sabotage one side. For example If Monero is white and Boolberry is black I might moderate recommendations for a move in situations like this:

1. e4 Nf6
2. Qh5 (recommended by multiple trolls trying to sabotage Monero by allowing Nxh5)

Other than situations like this I will let the communities vote for the moves freely without any interference. To date I have edited/deleted 0 thread posts made by people other than myself. I will update the last sentence if something changes. The move with the most votes win.  I propose 1 move per 24 hours (so that there is time for everyone to vote and see feedback from others) starting from the next 0:00 UTC time following the other teams move.

Ties will be decided based on the recommendation from ArticMine:
We need a tie breaking mechanism. For example one can look at the result before the vote that led to the tie and use that instead.

Players are free to choose their own side but cannot play for both teams. Everyone knows that Monero has a larger community, but it is yet to be determined if that is a good or a bad thing (for this chess game). The quality of players and an ability to convince team members to vote for the best moves is probably more important than the number of people involved.

Current position
Based on the votes in this thread Team Monero has chosen to play Kf4. Now it is time for Team Boolberry to respond. I will plan to count votes again tomorrow at approximately 0:00 UTC.

white to move


Team Boolberry (white pieces) vs. Team DarkFlarb (black pieces)
Game 2 PGN:
Code:
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.Nc3 O-O 5.e4 d6 6.Be2 e5 7.d5 a5 8.Bg5 h6 9.Be3 Na6 10.h3 Nh5 11.Qd2 Nf4 12.O-O-O Nxg2 13.Bxh6 Bxh6 14.Qxh6 Qf6 15.Kb1 Nf4 16.Nd2 Nc5 17.h4 a4 18.h5 Qg7 19.Qg5 a3 20.b3 f6 21.Qg3 g5 22.Rdg1 Qh7 23.Bg4 Bxg4 24.Qxg4 c6 25.Qf5 Qxf5 26.exf5 Kh7 27.Nde4 Nxe4 28.Nxe4 cxd5 29.cxd5 Kh6 30.Rd1 Ra5 31.Nxd6 Rxd5 32.Rxd5 Nxd5 33.f3 Nc3+ 34.Ka1 Ne2 35.Rh2 Nd4 36.Rf2 b5 37.Kb1 Ra8 38.Ne4 Ra6 39.Kc1 Nxf5 40.Kd2 Rc6 41.b4 Kxh5 42.Kd3 Kg6 43.Nc3 Nd4 44.Nb1 Kf5 45.Nxa3 Kf4
0-1

Team DarkFlarb (white pieces) vs. Team Boolberry (black pieces)
Game 1 PGN:
Code:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 a6 5.c4 Nc6 6.Qe3 g6 7.Nc3 Bg7 8.Be2 Nf6 9.O-O O-O 10.h3 Nd7 11.b3 Nc5 12.Bb2 f5 13.exf5 Bxf5 14.Rad1 Qa5 15.Rd2 Rf6 16.Nd5 Re6 17.Qf4 Ne4 18.Bxg7 Kxg7 19.Rb2 Nc3 20.Nd4 Re5 21.Bf3 Nxd5 22.Bxd5 Qc3 23.Nxf5+ Rxf5 24.Qd2 Qxd2 25.Rxd2 Rb8 26.a3 e5 27.Be6 Rf6 28.Bd5 Nd4 29.b4 b6 30.Rb2 g5 31.a4 Rff8 32.Rfb1 Rfc8 33.f3 Kf6 34.g3 Rc7 35.Rf1 Nf5 36.Kf2 h5 37.Rd1 Rg7 38.Be4 Nd4 39.Rg1 Rf8 40.Ke3 Rc7 41.Bd5 b5 42.cxb5 axb5 43.a5 Rc3+ 44.Kd2 Rfc8 45.Rf1 Ra3 46.h4 gxh4 47.gxh4 Kf5 48.Bb7 Rcc3 49.a6 Re3
0-1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Game_Notation
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September 26, 2015, 05:59:52 AM
 #2

Team Monero
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September 26, 2015, 06:03:24 AM
 #3

Team ownage!  Grin Grin Grin

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September 26, 2015, 06:04:16 AM
 #4

Team Monero

Its official. Monero responded first and has the white pieces. I renamed the thread title Monero vs Boolberry instead of Boolberry vs Monero to help avoid confusion about who is white.

Now everyone on team Monero can vote for move 1 ideas. I think each team should be able to count their own votes. I am willing to upload a picture of the board (for either team) once a move is decided upon. If team Monero wants to be in charge of uploading its own chess board image that is fine too. Please choose one that is labeled for easy algebraic notation (a-h, 1-8) which will be helpful for beginners.
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September 26, 2015, 06:50:23 AM
Last edit: September 26, 2015, 07:03:09 AM by 8XMR
 #5

Monero Team

1.d4 please

I was not happy Wei Li losing match against Peter Svidler. Winning this game will make me feel much better!

8xmr.com
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September 26, 2015, 07:30:08 AM
Last edit: October 21, 2015, 10:15:56 PM by benthach
 #6

this thread is no more than just a spam
it's just monero is a better scam spams coin

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September 26, 2015, 07:51:02 AM
 #7

monero is no more than just a better spams coin

Thanks for the technically sound (because I said so) analysis.  Wink Hope you don't play chess with that kind of rigid analytical prowess.

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September 26, 2015, 08:07:56 AM
Last edit: September 26, 2015, 08:34:41 AM by LucyLovesCrypto
 #8

I like both coins but choose the Monero side because I prefer to play the white pieces in chess

I vote for 1.e4

Can I make a recommendation? Maybe instead of just talking about the technical differences in BBR and XMR you can compare CryptoNote solutions to the bitcoin fungibility issues described here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1190707.0

You could also compare and contrast CryptoNote (and the differences between XMR and BBR) to other existing and future alternatives such as Coin Join, Coin Shuffle, Zero Coin, Confidential Transactions and so on.
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September 26, 2015, 10:12:01 AM
 #9

e4 is a good opening move and has my vote

Don't buy Monero: https://twitter.com/MoneroPromotion/status/746006420508729344

XMR: 43hPTYyKarCTWyh4ZnMVn8AtFeEmtzTXo3Y6TGGMV26BWonJ4tpR7eP9RkUDYQbvg6LbrnMXWfghddE NGtvKxr7B5oML4qd
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September 26, 2015, 11:56:38 AM
Last edit: September 26, 2015, 01:50:53 PM by letsplayagame
 #10

Can I make a recommendation? Maybe instead of just talking about the technical differences in BBR and XMR you can compare CryptoNote solutions to the bitcoin fungibility issues described here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1190707.0

You could also compare and contrast CryptoNote (and the differences between XMR and BBR) to other existing and future alternatives such as Coin Join, Coin Shuffle, Zero Coin, Confidential Transactions and so on.

I will not be playing chess for either side in this game (visit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148538 for that).  I am here because happy to see more people interested in chess and because of my interest in privacy.

My primary goal is to promote the adoption of bitcoin. I do not own any Monero or Boolberry.
 
I am interested in hearing some technical debate on the advantages and disadvantages of CryptoNote versus some of the alternatives mentioned and what BTC could potentially implement.  Please remain as unbiased as possible. If I can acknowledge that bitcoin has some potential weaknesses you should be able to do the same.

If you can provide sources to support your arguments that would be ideal. The more technical the better.

Has anyone seen Pawn Sacrifice yet? What did you think?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1596345/releaseinfo

Parts of it are not accurate but I expect that with most movies.  

Chess, Bitcoin, Privacy and Freedom
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languagehasmeaning
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September 26, 2015, 02:16:49 PM
 #11

Can I make a recommendation? Maybe instead of just talking about the technical differences in BBR and XMR you can compare CryptoNote solutions to the bitcoin fungibility issues described here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1190707.0

You could also compare and contrast CryptoNote (and the differences between XMR and BBR) to other existing and future alternatives such as Coin Join, Coin Shuffle, Zero Coin, Confidential Transactions and so on.

I will not be playing chess for either side in this game (visit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148538 for that).  I am here because happy to see more people interested in chess and because of my interest in privacy.

My primary goal is to promote the adoption of bitcoin. I do not own any Monero or Boolberry.
 
I am interested in hearing some technical debate on the advantages and disadvantages of CryptoNote versus some of the alternatives mentioned and what BTC could potentially implement.  Please remain as unbiased as possible. If I can acknowledge that bitcoin has some potential weaknesses you should be able to do the same.

If you can provide sources to support your arguments that would be ideal. The more technical the better.

Has anyone seen Pawn Sacrifice yet? What did you think?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1596345/releaseinfo

Parts of it are not accurate but I expect that with most movies.  

Thanks for visiting this thread letsplayagame! If you are still playing in Baku, good luck in the remainder of the tournament! The developers of Monero and Boolberry can address any technical questions you may have.

I have not seen that movie but plan to eventually (not in the theater).

As a member of team Boolberry I am eager to start helping once Monero has chosen its first move.
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September 26, 2015, 03:08:07 PM
 #12

I might continue compiling charts for this game as well if it takes off. Smiley
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September 26, 2015, 03:17:43 PM
 #13

Very nice idea. And such a pleasure to read something friendly around here once in a while!

I will watch and learn Smiley

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September 26, 2015, 04:34:49 PM
 #14

much fun !
my vote is for e4

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September 26, 2015, 05:56:35 PM
 #15

Monero Team. I vote for e4. Do we have a clock / time limit for each move?

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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September 26, 2015, 06:56:32 PM
 #16

Monero team. My vote is E4 as well. I think every turn is meant to last 24 hours.
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September 26, 2015, 08:55:06 PM
 #17

I propose 1 move per 24 hours (so that there is time for everyone to vote and see feedback from others) starting from the next 0:00 UTC time following the other teams move.

So 24-48 hours
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September 26, 2015, 09:26:26 PM
 #18

I might continue compiling charts for this game as well if it takes off. Smiley

That is very nice of you! Will you be playing in this game too? If so for which side?
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September 26, 2015, 09:29:28 PM
Last edit: September 26, 2015, 09:39:58 PM by boolberry
 #19

I propose 1 move per 24 hours (so that there is time for everyone to vote and see feedback from others) starting from the next 0:00 UTC time following the other teams move.

So 24-48 hours

Yes 24 hours if the other team waits until the last minute (just before 0:00 UTC) to make a move or almost 48 hours if the other team moves almost immediately (0:01 UTC) when their turn begins and the 24 hour clock does not start until the next 0:00 UTC. The later scenario is unlikely even on move one because it would might sense to wait for new players to show up.

That sounded fair to me. If someone has a better idea I am open to suggestions.

Based on the graphs Taras compiled in the other chess thread it seems that more people tend to join as the game continues. How that should impact the time limit I am not sure but I know it makes counting votes more tedious.
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September 26, 2015, 09:56:01 PM
 #20

watching, learning.

bbr and xmr have more in common than differences, so a debate should be respectful friendly sibling rivalry.

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